I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Not that I am trying to skimp on my turbo project, I just want to be able to get it up and running then go from there. For me the big part will be getting it installed. I don't mind running low boost and not being perfectly tuned for a while.

As of now I need to pick up a BOV, wastegate, intercooler, and fuel pump. What I bought from Neal includes an FMU with an 8:1 disk.

Can I run the car with a 5lb springs with only the FMU? No gauges, no SAFC, stock injectors, stock ECU, stock MAF. I would go dyno just to see the #'s and get a peak at my AF even thoough I would not be able to adjust it.

My plan before next summer is Z32 MAF, JWT ECU, 550cc injectors, electronic boost controller, Boost gauge, fuel pressure gauge, and EGT gauge.

But can it just run turbo on 5lbs and an FMU until then? Or should I at least have an SAFC and guages as well?

Thanks, and be easy on me I am a newb. I have spent the last few days searching about every topic in the boosted forum I can think of......but unless one has kept track of what has gone on it is hard to see what has ended up working and what posts were just discussion.

Mike

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

SAFC or Emanage would be yield a much better tune
but at 5psi on FMU you will be safe - just not making ideal power. You may pick up a couple FMU discs and dyno to see AF and try going up/down to get it closer if needed

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

thanks Hal,

That was my basic concern...if it was safe, I know it would not make much power. I just like the idea of having the kit installed then adding goodies one by one to suit my needs. 8:1 disk seems kinda large doesn't it?

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Anybody want to give me some reasons why I should not do it?

allmotorVQ35

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a plan to me. What turbo you gonna run? trim, ar?

Bags

iTrader: (3)

No, but a little more direction/help.

I'll throw up some more when I get home

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Garrett T4/t04e: 46 trim wheel, .60 a/r compressor, .70 a/r turbine

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Mike, I am going to come off as condesending and a jacka$$.. I'm just trying to help

Low boost is your best bet for a month or so. Just to get the feel for the car and new found power. There is a learning curve on driving and tuning

Sounds good. 8:1 disk is what you should stay with @ 8 psi and below. I would not suggest running more than 8 psi.

Maybe, I did not see any mention of an upgradded fuel pump. And don't forget, as Fuel Pressure increases, Fuel Pump OUTPUT DECREASES. If you have an upgraded fuel pump, then yes, FMU and your done with the fuel system. It would not be a bad idea to borrow a mechanical Fuel Presure gauge and just do a few runs to ensure the fuel system is working.

This I say HELL NO. Boost creep happens when it's cold, if the wastegate gets hot and the spring expands, and so on. An EGT gauge will tell you if there is a problem BEFORE something breaks. If you start running lean due to your FMU leaking air, your EGT gauge will tell you something is wrong. HOWEVER, for YOUR EGT gauge to be effective, you SHOULD dyno/WBO2 tune with it. This way you'll know where YOUR EGT's are supposed to be at at YOUR max boost. People may say you can get away with it, but I say thess 2 are a MUST. My opinion

Sounds great as long as the Fuel Pump is changed

Again, the boost gauge and EGT I would not skimp on. And stay away from Autometer, 2 dyno's showed mine and dixit's were off 1-2 psi.


Again, gauges and fuel pump at minimum


I know and this may not be in the stickies, but it will be soon

And keep asking questions, I know about 1/4 of it.. others will chime in. And turbo basics are the same, no matter if on a supra or rx7, it's all basicly the same.

You can find good info on other websites and that book your talking about

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Not being a jacka$$ at all Thanks for the input.

I didn't list the fuel pump in a couple places because I figured that was implied.

I think your right about the gauges. Before I was thinking along the lines of "I will be so rich I won't have to worry about high EGT's" and "I will just be running a 5lb spring and no boost controller so I don't need to know what psi I am at". But that is assuming nothing goes wrong.....bad assumption on my part! I need those gauges right from the start just to be safe.

When you said don't run more than 8psi....you ment on the 8:1 FMU disk correct? Because I plan to run 9-11 psi once I get e-mangage or a JWT ECU.

Oblongshapes

iTrader: (1)

Is it always a must to get a new fuel pump?

superdave2

yes, $100 for a walbro is a no-brainer investment. IMO, it is always a good idea to hardwire the pump as well. It is common practice amung the DSM guys and becoming more and more common amung the SR community. I thought my pupmp was going bad but it turned out the stock wiring just couldn't handle the increased load. I hardwired it through a relay and my pump is stronger than ever.

Mike, to keep the "sleeper" look, I'd suggest the Blitz turbotimer with the built in boost gauge. It is about $150 iirc and it is small so it will keep your interior looking stock

I'd forgoe the EGT and save up for a wbo2, it will end up SAVING you money in the long run due to less dyno time.

slimer

iTrader: (13)

mike, you can borrow my old stillen inline pump, with all hardware included, as well as any disk that you need to tune with, i have all of them.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Cool. I will take you up on the FMU disks. The 8:1 disk I will have seems like it would be too much but I don't know enough to know say that for sure.

Inline pump? different than a replacement walbro?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

An inline pump is the same thing as an auxiliary pump I think, meaning you have the stock one, and then another aftermarket one in line with it. Or you can get a Walbro in tank (GSS322 or something like that part number) and have only one.

Also forget the EGT guage and get a wideband O2 guage. EGT guages are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. I saw someone posting about doing a turbo setup on another car and the existing turbo guys said something basically "get out of the mid 90's and forget that EGT guage and get a wideband o2 guage."

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I already have a wideband o2 sensor installed in my car b/c of the custom ECU tuning I am doing. But it will come in handy when I will need it to tune with my turbo. But would you recommend having an EGT gauge on top of it? Will the EGT tell me anything that the wideband can't? I don't know if EGT is something I actually need to know if I already know my exact AFR.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

I agree with you and my brother that an wide band is where it's at for tuning. But what If I am running a JWT ECU boost program? I wouldn't really mess with the AF anyhow...at least not with an SAFC since it will play with the timing. If I was doing my own tuning through e-manage then a wide band would be a must. But if I am running a ROM tune then an EGT gauge would just let me know if something screwy is going on.

I may take the easy way out and go with the JWT program. It won't make as much power as tuning it myself since JWT tune is gonna be real conservative with timing but I am not looking to set any records. I figure that with any loss in power from using a JWT tune instead of my own e-manage tune I could just turn up the boost 1psi and be about even.

superdave2

The EGT will just tell you when you r pistons are going to melt. If you are going to go the JWT route, I wouldn't bother getting an EGT or WBO2.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I'm not going the JWT ECU route. I am doing a full standalone. Well, I have already done a full standalone. So I am curious if an EGT gauge will help me if I already have a wideband and full datalogging capabilities.

subs1000w

regardless whether or not your going to tune the car or not just get the wide band it will eliminate the "is this EGT temp safe posts" because youll know everythings fine as long as your below 13:1 plus some people have high egts with a safe A/F so you could think somthings wrong but its really not and its only twice what a decent EGT gauge costs

plus the .46 trim wheel will be fine for 5 psi but i punched in some numbers in turbocalculator and its pretty inefficient at 10 (under 65% @ redline)so i would go to a 60 trim which is around 75%-78% efficient from 4k all the way to 7krpms latter on

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

Like superdave said, get the blitz turbo timer with boost gauge built in
That is what I use, it is great because it saves peak boost too! (also you can set overboost where it turns red and beeps..)

I would focus more on AF (atleast dyno) than EGT... unless you start retarding a lot of timing, a/f should be the big concern.

at such low boost, you need to be concerned with wastegate creep as well..

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

I will just have to plead ignorant on this one. I do not know much about this turbo other than the previous owner On_Alert said boost comes on at 2.2K at peaks at 3.6K....which I know is relative to how much boost I am running. How efficient it is I have no idea but thanks for the info. I don't plan on changing the turbo as of now. Just gonna use this one and see what happens.



Thanks Dave and Hal about the Biltz turbo timer. $131, Not bad at all.
at http://www.optionimports.com/dualturtimdc.html

I am probably thinking way too far ahead, but I want my monitoring devices to be mounted nice an clean. I don't want stuff everywhere just random places. I was gonna do just a 3 pod pillar with boost, EGT, and fuel pressure. But obviously the Biltz unit would not go in a pod....stupid reason for not getting it though.

slimer

iTrader: (13)

when are you going to install this, cuz i wanna come over.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Since winter is now here...just look outside....it probably won't be till March. I say that now, but once I get all the parts I may not be able to wait. My finances won't allow it for at least a couple months though. Need about $1000 worth of stuff just to get it on. Don't worry, I will let you know. I need all the help I can get. You would be a good source since you have a boosted maxima.

slimer

iTrader: (13)

done a lot of turbo research too.

i hope you dont mind me asking. but if you are going really low boost. why dont you install the kit, forego the intercooler and run a straight pipe and be able to install the intercooler when you get the $.

it may be a thought.
Steve

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Intercooler is not a big hurdle...$250 or so. Then I would waste money on fabricating a pipe to bypass the intercooler. It's not a money issue to finish the kit off...BOV, intercooler, fuel pump, and wategate. It's going beyond that...e-manage or JWT ECU, z32 maf, injectors, dyno time. That is why I am going to do it in two stages. Get the kit on and run low boost with the basics as soon as the weather gets better....have fun with that and get used the car. Get the inevitable kinks worked out. Learn some more. Then drop another $1000 or so and make some real power.

superdave2

That is a good plan Mike.

Boosted Maxima

Not to sound like a smart *** but there's alot of over enginering going on here. Not that all the expencive parts don't work, but they are realy more complicated and don't yield any better results than simple products that are affordable.
You don't have to run a BOV. With a internal style waste gate it would eliminate the need for the turbo timer and external wastegates.
Anything from a stock GN turbo to .50 series would work I'm using a TA49 that supports 550hp. GN 3.8's are similar to our engines and all the guess work is done. They have prity much perfected the seutps for these engines. Stock rebuilt turbo would be 350.00 TA49 600.00 with actuator.(also called waste gate)
Fuel pump for sure. No brainer there.
You could use a FMU but that's a crutch in my openion. It gets you by with shoving lots of fuel through too small injector. If your going to use it do it till you setup the right injector and a good FPR like Aeromotive. I just did that and cranked the FP up till the plugs read right.
Wide band is the first tuneing tool. EGT's won't help in tuning especialy for the novice.
350.00 good investment in your engines future.
NO dyno's no crap like that. I've never seen the real benifit to dynos. I generaly don't talk HP#'s or Torque figures. They are prity much worthless to me. I've seen guys with lots of $ invested in "dyno" sheets and they don't run at the track because of a million other issues that the a day on the dyno won't solve. Drivability problems traction problems chassis problems just to name a few. The only real way that I've found to tune is drive it daily and make small changes, record the result and keep making forward progress till it's right. One day of dyno time when you or the dyno guy is looking for results in "bigger"numbers ends up hurting somthing. No thanks.
Maby you guys have had good results but I sure have seen alot of failures.
Maby I'm off my rocker.. (insert foot into mouth) Just my way of looking
at things.
Be glad to help since your prity close to my area there in IL
Elkhart IN here (close to South Bend)
Good luck in your decision
Scott~

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

If you do not own a wideband... you can use one on the dyno. This is why we suggested he go atleast make 3 pulls to check af at the dyno. Not to try and put down monster numbers at 5psi.

On a side note, power shows the beauty of a dyno. It is hard tuning a powerband at 1000hp on the street. Even at my power level it was not that easy to tune on the street, and not real safe. Mustang dynos would be the best, seeing as how you can tune regular driving conditions and specific RPMs if you would like. HP and TQ #'s are an extra bonus.

superdave2

BoostedMax,
What exactly are you referring to as the expensive over-engineered parts that are being suggested??
BOV's?? I don't really like rebuilding my turbo everytime I shift. I agree that an internally gated turbo would be a good money saving option, but he already has a turbo. The turbo timer was reccomended as an inexpensive, stealthy boost gauge.

Bernardd

Why don't you install a 100.00 diy alcohol injection kit? The GN guys use this a lot and have it working very well. Use a knock detector to set boost. Splice into the knock sensor and listen to what the engine is doing. I've heard some recordings and it seems pretty clear when knock is occuring. I have a wideband which ,don't get me wrong, is a very useful instrument but it doesn't tell the whole story. Knock is what is trying to be eliminated. Just a little outside of the box thinking. (Yes I'm crazy)

Boosted Maxima

I guess all I'm getting at is you spend 50.00 or more a pull on the chassis dyno and do this 6 times gives you very little time for tuning.
I'm not telling the guy to go out and make 100 1/4mi passes on the street but there's plenty of road for several gear pulls and most widebands have up to 40min of data log so you get alot more time to perfect things.
BOV's never came on GN's (I realize they are automatic's) but the turbo's lasted a long time and did not fail because of not haveing a BOV. I'm not using one now and won't till I come across one very cheap. It's not that critical of a part to have right off the begining.
He was looking for "cheap" way to go. I spent 20.00 to actualy have boost in the intake. I had alot of parts but still I'd have around 500.00 in a setup getting stuff used with out having them in stock. The tuning is where the real power starts for all cars and I'm all for having the most information avalible to me when tuning. Wideband/Knock sensor/EGT ect.. THe more information the better chance of getting it right.
The Alcohol kit's are nice.. No need for race gas then and more boost for pump gas.. Just keep that bottle full!

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes for what they did with their cars! There's no real "wrong" way to do this other than to not do it at all. Then you've learned nothing and gained nothing.
Good luck!
Scott~

slimer

iTrader: (13)

yeah, water/alcohol injection would be nice.

mike, if we do this on yours, we'll have to do it on mine too!

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

I am not looking for a "cheap" set up. The original question is what can I get away with safely just to get the turbo up and running on 5psi. I would rather have a very basic working turbo set up on the car and then go from there.

alot of your points are good, but they don't apply to my situation. I have purchased all the exhaust and induction piping, turbo, oil and water lines that were perviously on a turbo maxima. This set up is made to recieve certain parts with ease. I am not going to go out and get another turbo so I can run a internal wastgate. I am not going to replace some of the induction piping so I don't have to run a BOV. The set up is flanged for a tial 38mm wastegate and a HKS SSQV BOV, so for simplicity that is what I am going to get. It also come with an FMU so that is what I will use at first as well.

I am going to make my major tuning decisions down the road, I just want to get the turbo up and running and go from there. I don't see a need for a wide band o2 if I may go with a JWT ECU. So I don't think it makes sense to go buy one right away. If I decide to go the e-manage route then I will get a wide band.