To be cautious or not??
03-23-2005, 10:30 PM
#1
To be cautious or not??
The other day i installed my 510cc injectors and today i wraped up installing the headers(what a b!tch) and i was wondering if it would be wise to somewhat get on the throttle? I know not to fully open her up since it is not tuned but would 510cc injectors wtih no fmu or auxilary pump be wise to drive until i get the car tuned next saturday? I just want to hear the sweet notes of the headers 
03-23-2005, 10:59 PM
#2
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I wouldn't...it is not worth it when you really don't know what your AFR are. I got on mine a bit but I was on low boost and had a pretty good idea from others with the same set up and my calculations that my AF were OK
03-24-2005, 05:21 AM
#5
Originally Posted by h2kSPiG
You finally got those headers in? 
Just get the car tuned. Make sure everything is running right. How is everything going with putting the car back together?
Just get the car tuned. Make sure everything is running right. How is everything going with putting the car back together?
Yea i got the headers on and they actually seem to fit pretty good. Man spig, that was probablly the worst thing i have ever done. My hands looked like i punched a brick wall. You guys are right, but what about normal driving?
03-24-2005, 08:47 AM
#8
Chris,
Just put the FMU back in and you'll be fine. Do you have a Walbro intank fuel pump?
Also, over the next week or so, can you try once per day or COLD start adjusting your eManage injector size setting from 290cc-->510cc to...
290cc->475cc
290cc->450cc
290cc->425cc
290cc->400cc
etc...
until it starts idling like crap or doesn't start?
Just put the FMU back in and you'll be fine. Do you have a Walbro intank fuel pump?
Also, over the next week or so, can you try once per day or COLD start adjusting your eManage injector size setting from 290cc-->510cc to...
290cc->475cc
290cc->450cc
290cc->425cc
290cc->400cc
etc...
until it starts idling like crap or doesn't start?
03-24-2005, 09:58 AM
#10
Well if the eManage is doing its job scaling the injectors back from 510cc->290cc via MAF conditioning, then the AFR should be the same as it was before except for the new mods, ie headers, eCutout, etc.. However, you don't know what that AFR was.
As for the SARD, only if you can't get it to start, however it sounds like it starts now?
As for the SARD, only if you can't get it to start, however it sounds like it starts now?
03-24-2005, 10:44 AM
#13
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
You've got the eManage all configured and wired with no error codes from either the car or the eManage at least, right?
no just wired up, but i still have to configure it. I haven't even attempted a start yet
03-24-2005, 10:50 AM
#14
Chris,
It is a bit late, but IMHO, it is less frustrating/complicated to trouble-shoot problems when you take baby steps.
If it were me, I would have got the eManage installed and the car running and then did the injectors.
Hopefully, trouble-shooting isn't necessary, but with your past history of wiring...
Also, you didn't answer if you were intending to feed this monster with a stock fuel pump?
Last, did you install the injector and ignition timing harness?
It is a bit late, but IMHO, it is less frustrating/complicated to trouble-shoot problems when you take baby steps.
If it were me, I would have got the eManage installed and the car running and then did the injectors.
Hopefully, trouble-shooting isn't necessary, but with your past history of wiring...
Also, you didn't answer if you were intending to feed this monster with a stock fuel pump?
Last, did you install the injector and ignition timing harness?
03-24-2005, 11:26 AM
#15
I am still using the stock intank pump. I know it would have been better to take baby steps, but i am on spring break this week and really don't have time during school to mess with this stuff so i figured i would get it all done. I'm not really worried about the wiring on the emanage since i just used the wires that were used on my SAFC. When you think about it the only major mods that would cause starting issues were the injectors and emanage. Also no i haven't gotten the ignition/injector wiring harness. I wanted to wait till got this stuff installed incase i had some bugs to work out.
03-24-2005, 11:37 AM
#16
Okay...
First, using the MAF conditioning of the eManage to pull fuel is rumored to increase ignition timing and since you don't have the ignition harness hookup, you can't pull timing. I'd be careful and listen for detonation, ie pinging.
Second, stock fuel pump most likely will not be able to supply the volume of fuel you need to hit 300-350+whp get a Walbro 255lph HP, I think the GS342 or something, at least for the $90 or so it is CHEAP insurance that the stocker doesn't poop out on you.
Third, you still have to worry about configuring the eManage properly, ie settings. Wiring is only half the battle and you need to make sure the MAF settings, injectors settings, decel settings, etc. all work. Some people have issues, most don't, but I'd assume you will as I would for myself.
Last, I understand the rush to cram it all into spring break, I used to do the same every vacation/long weekend I got. However, with the eManage a quick start would be all it takes to verify it starts/runs. Headers are what kicked your ****/ate your time, but the eManage might now too.
First, using the MAF conditioning of the eManage to pull fuel is rumored to increase ignition timing and since you don't have the ignition harness hookup, you can't pull timing. I'd be careful and listen for detonation, ie pinging.
Second, stock fuel pump most likely will not be able to supply the volume of fuel you need to hit 300-350+whp get a Walbro 255lph HP, I think the GS342 or something, at least for the $90 or so it is CHEAP insurance that the stocker doesn't poop out on you.
Third, you still have to worry about configuring the eManage properly, ie settings. Wiring is only half the battle and you need to make sure the MAF settings, injectors settings, decel settings, etc. all work. Some people have issues, most don't, but I'd assume you will as I would for myself.
Last, I understand the rush to cram it all into spring break, I used to do the same every vacation/long weekend I got. However, with the eManage a quick start would be all it takes to verify it starts/runs. Headers are what kicked your ****/ate your time, but the eManage might now too.
03-24-2005, 12:18 PM
#19
BTW, you need the injector harness to ADD fuel, so you'd better get that installed before the dyno.
The injector scaling pulls fuel via the MAF harness, but you ADD fuel via the injector harness.
The injector scaling pulls fuel via the MAF harness, but you ADD fuel via the injector harness.
03-24-2005, 12:23 PM
#20
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
BTW, you need the injector harness to ADD fuel, so you'd better get that installed before the dyno.
The injector scaling pulls fuel via the MAF harness, but you ADD fuel via the injector harness.
The injector scaling pulls fuel via the MAF harness, but you ADD fuel via the injector harness.
yea thats the way i understood it.
03-24-2005, 12:43 PM
#21
You can add fuel via the MAF harness through the fuel tables, however the Greddy documentation doesn't recommend that with the injector scale factor.
Just cruising around at part throttle, the ECU will learn/adjust via 02-sensor feedback in closed-loop mode, however you go open-loop with a quick throttle change or throttle position over 30-40% and you risk going lean.
As a temp fix, you could try "lying" to the eManage by telling it you only went from a 290cc to 450cc for example, so it doesn't pull as much fuel. The closed loop feedback will correct for being rich, but once you hit WOT it should bog from being rich or ping from being lean. Only problem with this is that you might have cold start issues when the ECU dumps in too much fuel.
Just cruising around at part throttle, the ECU will learn/adjust via 02-sensor feedback in closed-loop mode, however you go open-loop with a quick throttle change or throttle position over 30-40% and you risk going lean.
As a temp fix, you could try "lying" to the eManage by telling it you only went from a 290cc to 450cc for example, so it doesn't pull as much fuel. The closed loop feedback will correct for being rich, but once you hit WOT it should bog from being rich or ping from being lean. Only problem with this is that you might have cold start issues when the ECU dumps in too much fuel.
03-24-2005, 01:45 PM
#23
NOT dumb questions...I was stating withOUT a FMU or your aux Trex pump.
Basically, if you set the eManage to 290cc->510cc and remove your Trex/FMU, in theory it would be the same as just running stock injectors alone and when you boost you'd go lean during open-loop.
You need to temporarily keep fuel pressure ramping up via the FMU until you can use the eManage to increase fuel.
All just guesstimates though Chris, you need to get the AFR measured ASAP as others previously said.
Basically, if you set the eManage to 290cc->510cc and remove your Trex/FMU, in theory it would be the same as just running stock injectors alone and when you boost you'd go lean during open-loop.
You need to temporarily keep fuel pressure ramping up via the FMU until you can use the eManage to increase fuel.
All just guesstimates though Chris, you need to get the AFR measured ASAP as others previously said.
03-24-2005, 02:10 PM
#24
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
NOT dumb questions...I was stating withOUT a FMU or your aux Trex pump.
Basically, if you set the eManage to 290cc->510cc and remove your Trex/FMU, in theory it would be the same as just running stock injectors alone and when you boost you'd go lean during open-loop.
You need to temporarily keep fuel pressure ramping up via the FMU until you can use the eManage to increase fuel.
All just guesstimates though Chris, you need to get the AFR measured ASAP as others previously said.
Basically, if you set the eManage to 290cc->510cc and remove your Trex/FMU, in theory it would be the same as just running stock injectors alone and when you boost you'd go lean during open-loop.
You need to temporarily keep fuel pressure ramping up via the FMU until you can use the eManage to increase fuel.
All just guesstimates though Chris, you need to get the AFR measured ASAP as others previously said.
I understand that. What about injector duty cycle. Would the bigger injectors allow for a lower duty cycle when using the FMU/t-rex? If so that would be a temporary fix until getting it tuned next weekend
03-24-2005, 02:26 PM
#25
Injector pulse width, time injectors are open, will be less with the 510cc injectors then the 290cc, yet provide approximately the same amount of fuel if the eManage scaling factor is set to correct. Basically, it just multiplies the MAF voltages by 0.568(290cc/510cc).
Using the FMU/t-rex will increase fuel pressure/volume and the 510cc injectors will need even LESS pulse width to keep flowing the same fuel. However, every injector has a minimum injector turn on/off time, so pulse width can only be shortened so much before idle/atomization sucks or you're still to rich.
You can lie to the eManage with the Trex/FMU installed and say you have switched from 290cc-->600cc, so it pulls more fuel during cold starts/idling. The Trex/FMU will still increase fuel as boost comes on, however will it be soon enough in the midrange or not enough to compensate for the even shorter pulse width, I don't know.
Using the FMU/t-rex will increase fuel pressure/volume and the 510cc injectors will need even LESS pulse width to keep flowing the same fuel. However, every injector has a minimum injector turn on/off time, so pulse width can only be shortened so much before idle/atomization sucks or you're still to rich.
You can lie to the eManage with the Trex/FMU installed and say you have switched from 290cc-->600cc, so it pulls more fuel during cold starts/idling. The Trex/FMU will still increase fuel as boost comes on, however will it be soon enough in the midrange or not enough to compensate for the even shorter pulse width, I don't know.
Originally Posted by chris'smax
I understand that. What about injector duty cycle. Would the bigger injectors allow for a lower duty cycle when using the FMU/t-rex? If so that would be a temporary fix until getting it tuned next weekend
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