Emange Ultimate can advance timing...
02-05-2006, 02:57 PM
#1
Kevlo for President
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Emange Ultimate can advance timing...
EU can advance and retard timing w/o the crank signal...
How do I know? I had my buddy Jeremy test it on his. The rpms go down when you retard and the rpms go up when you advance.
How do I know? I had my buddy Jeremy test it on his. The rpms go down when you retard and the rpms go up when you advance.
02-05-2006, 05:30 PM
#5
Kevlo for President
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What is the two step?
IGN for rpm source.
Well rev limit shouldnt work w/o the crank or cam signal. I believe the EU will need real RPM source so it can past the stock revlimit, so it can continue to fire the coils and injectors. I still havent figured out the injector hold times and stuff either. Will do all that tomorrow or later in the week.
IGN for rpm source.
Well rev limit shouldnt work w/o the crank or cam signal. I believe the EU will need real RPM source so it can past the stock revlimit, so it can continue to fire the coils and injectors. I still havent figured out the injector hold times and stuff either. Will do all that tomorrow or later in the week.
02-05-2006, 05:42 PM
#6
Two step is the launch control (two step rev limit).
See this is puzzling me... I had absolutely no fluctuation in idle speed playing with timing that way using ign inputs. Unless the 4th gen ECU maintains idle speed using the IACV somehow...
Until I can get on a dyno in the spring I'm not going to assume that timing advance works for sure. It may, but I'm not 100% convinced.
But yet Icey seems to have gotten the rev limit working on his 5th gen...
I'm still wondering if my unit is actually working properly on my 4th gen (the ignition parts anyways...)
I dunno.. I'd rather just get the crank signal working and erase all the uncertainties with the tach/ign methods.
See this is puzzling me... I had absolutely no fluctuation in idle speed playing with timing that way using ign inputs. Unless the 4th gen ECU maintains idle speed using the IACV somehow...
Until I can get on a dyno in the spring I'm not going to assume that timing advance works for sure. It may, but I'm not 100% convinced. But yet Icey seems to have gotten the rev limit working on his 5th gen...
I'm still wondering if my unit is actually working properly on my 4th gen (the ignition parts anyways...)
I dunno.. I'd rather just get the crank signal working and erase all the uncertainties with the tach/ign methods.
02-06-2006, 09:32 AM
#8
Idle is controlled via timing, IACV, etc. and the ECU is constantly controlling it to the target RPM.
I'm not saying you couldn't cause a quick blip in RPM by changing the timing value of a cell, however does the EU allow "on-the-fly" fuel/timing changes in the maps? I didn't think so.
I'm not saying you couldn't cause a quick blip in RPM by changing the timing value of a cell, however does the EU allow "on-the-fly" fuel/timing changes in the maps? I didn't think so.
Originally Posted by DandyMax
Two step is the launch control (two step rev limit).
See this is puzzling me... I had absolutely no fluctuation in idle speed playing with timing that way using ign inputs. Unless the 4th gen ECU maintains idle speed using the IACV somehow... Until I can get on a dyno in the spring I'm not going to assume that timing advance works for sure. It may, but I'm not 100% convinced.
But yet Icey seems to have gotten the rev limit working on his 5th gen...
I'm still wondering if my unit is actually working properly on my 4th gen (the ignition parts anyways...)
I dunno.. I'd rather just get the crank signal working and erase all the uncertainties with the tach/ign methods.
See this is puzzling me... I had absolutely no fluctuation in idle speed playing with timing that way using ign inputs. Unless the 4th gen ECU maintains idle speed using the IACV somehow...
Until I can get on a dyno in the spring I'm not going to assume that timing advance works for sure. It may, but I'm not 100% convinced. But yet Icey seems to have gotten the rev limit working on his 5th gen...
I'm still wondering if my unit is actually working properly on my 4th gen (the ignition parts anyways...)
I dunno.. I'd rather just get the crank signal working and erase all the uncertainties with the tach/ign methods.
02-06-2006, 11:18 AM
#9
Ice, Kev is referring to jeremykedel's car.. so 5th gen.
And yeah I wasn't clear, but that was my point that perhaps since my ECU is controlling idle speed to the target value I wasn't able to discern any real change in rpm that I could conclusively say was due to changing timing in the map. A fair amount of rpm fluctuation can be seen just in the normal reading from the CPS using a fast sampling scanner like the Consult clone I have. Ideally I'd like to verify this kind of thing using a dyno.
I believe anything you change in the EU map is applied in real time as long as the laptop is plugged in and communicating (ie - in online mode). So it might be possible to get a blip but you'd have to be sure it was only caused by the timing change, nothing else.
And yeah I wasn't clear, but that was my point that perhaps since my ECU is controlling idle speed to the target value I wasn't able to discern any real change in rpm that I could conclusively say was due to changing timing in the map. A fair amount of rpm fluctuation can be seen just in the normal reading from the CPS using a fast sampling scanner like the Consult clone I have. Ideally I'd like to verify this kind of thing using a dyno.
I believe anything you change in the EU map is applied in real time as long as the laptop is plugged in and communicating (ie - in online mode). So it might be possible to get a blip but you'd have to be sure it was only caused by the timing change, nothing else.
02-06-2006, 11:34 AM
#10
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Looks very kludged! Put a timing light on there. How can you use IGN as TACH source? ECU would be advancing and retarding. I would say this is not very reliable. Only way is to go off cam and crank signals. Even going off a tach is risky. Retard might be OK for these piggybacks, advance? .... hmmm.
02-06-2006, 12:52 PM
#15
Timing light would be another way of checking yes. Maybe I'll dig my old one out and fix it come spring.
But at this point I'm just staying focused on getting the crank signal working. It's a slow process with Greddy.. they are so extremely busy and hard to get a hold of and get information as to exactly where things are at but I'm keeping on it.
But at this point I'm just staying focused on getting the crank signal working. It's a slow process with Greddy.. they are so extremely busy and hard to get a hold of and get information as to exactly where things are at but I'm keeping on it.
02-06-2006, 01:04 PM
#16
Kevlo for President
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I dont see why the idle would only changed when we messed with timing other than the timing.
This is how we found out the timing worked on the SMT
Retard 5 degrees and watch the idle go down, advance 15 degrees and watch it go up. Go back to 0 and it goes down, go up 5 and the idle goes up.
This is how we found out the timing worked on the SMT
Retard 5 degrees and watch the idle go down, advance 15 degrees and watch it go up. Go back to 0 and it goes down, go up 5 and the idle goes up.
02-06-2006, 04:11 PM
#20
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Since the EU intercepts the output of the stock ECU, ie signal to coil, the OBD scanner won't show any changes per DandyMax insight.
Would the same thing then apply to those using SAFC and emanage blue? I ask because MikeD is getting auterra and we had planned on using it on both of our cars to log timing. He has SAFC-II and thus may be affecting timing a little bit with his fuel adjustments, and I'm using blue and adjusting timing with that.
02-06-2006, 04:22 PM
#21
SAFC would show up since it alters MAF readings and the ECU will actually change the timing itself.
From what I understand Emanage changes will not show up since it somewhat bypasses the ECU and either retards or advances.
From what I understand Emanage changes will not show up since it somewhat bypasses the ECU and either retards or advances.
02-06-2006, 04:48 PM
#22
No, on the SAFC and yes on the emanage blue, since IIRC the blue intercepts the ECU->coil wires, correct?
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Would the same thing then apply to those using SAFC and emanage blue? I ask because MikeD is getting auterra and we had planned on using it on both of our cars to log timing. He has SAFC-II and thus may be affecting timing a little bit with his fuel adjustments, and I'm using blue and adjusting timing with that.
02-06-2006, 07:13 PM
#23
The EU definitely intercepts the wires, it seems to work on my car ,I adjusted the timing +15,+10,+5,0,-5,-10,-15 and it changed everytime.Was idling at 750 to start with, the went to 900,850,800,750,700 so on and so forth.It definitely seems to work i will datalog it again my laptopp took a crap on me.Then i will post the log.I should have it fixed tomorrow.
02-06-2006, 11:07 PM
#25
Originally Posted by turbo97SE
Apprarently, datalogging and scanning with a scan tool is easier than getting a timing light and looking under the hood?
It is when you are talking about WOT, and it is when you have a scan tool but you don't have a timing light...
02-07-2006, 09:03 AM
#26
Originally Posted by jeremykedel
The EU definitely intercepts the wires, it seems to work on my car ,I adjusted the timing +15,+10,+5,0,-5,-10,-15 and it changed everytime.Was idling at 750 to start with, the went to 900,850,800,750,700 so on and so forth.It definitely seems to work i will datalog it again my laptopp took a crap on me.Then i will post the log.I should have it fixed tomorrow.
Better yet to have the crank pickup working and make this all a thing of the past.
02-07-2006, 04:05 PM
#27
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mmm ... when you are pulling OBD II port information, that gives you stock timing not actual timing especially if you are offsetting with the EMU. I know this because when i hook up to my OBD II port, it shows me what it thinks is the timing and I know for sure (with a timing light) and my AEM that it is not at that timing. I don't know of a lot of people who measure timing at WOT with a timing light, first step would be to measure timing at idle and see how much it advances to see if your +5 degrees or whatever match what your timing light is giving you. Yes, you may think the timing advances and retards by listening to the revs go up and down, but how much are you really advancing/retarding? It's like cooking beef. you know turning the heat up cooks faster, turning it down, it cooks slower ... but how do you know if it is cooked right ... by smell? you need to use the right tools or you will end up with beef jerky for a motor!
That is my only beef!
Geez all this talk of food is making me hungry.
That is my only beef!
Geez all this talk of food is making me hungry.
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
It is when you are talking about WOT, and it is when you have a scan tool but you don't have a timing light...
02-07-2006, 04:52 PM
#28
Originally Posted by turbo97SE
mmm ... when you are pulling OBD II port information, that gives you stock timing not actual timing especially if you are offsetting with the EMU. I know this because when i hook up to my OBD II port, it shows me what it thinks is the timing and I know for sure (with a timing light) and my AEM that it is not at that timing. I don't know of a lot of people who measure timing at WOT with a timing light, first step would be to measure timing at idle and see how much it advances to see if your +5 degrees or whatever match what your timing light is giving you. Yes, you may think the timing advances and retards by listening to the revs go up and down, but how much are you really advancing/retarding? It's like cooking beef. you know turning the heat up cooks faster, turning it down, it cooks slower ... but how do you know if it is cooked right ... by smell? you need to use the right tools or you will end up with beef jerky for a motor!
That is my only beef!
Geez all this talk of food is making me hungry.
That is my only beef!
Geez all this talk of food is making me hungry.
02-08-2006, 11:54 AM
#31
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I would really like to know if advance timing and retard timing works so I can order this already.... I spoke with jeremy yesterday and he said most likely we'll need the crank signal to use rev limit.
-matt
-matt
02-08-2006, 12:25 PM
#32
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ht=Rev+limiter
Did you miss this thread matty? Why are you concerned about advancing timing on your SC'd stock ECU car?
I've already shown the Rev-Limiter works to at least 6800rpm. Going further is simple, but simply hasn't been logged. There is more evidence showing it does work, then doesn't. Retarding timing is proven to work on the Blue Emanage and from my tests, it appears to still.
You don't NEED the crank input, it would just make things easier/simpler along with a change in Greddys' RLC map fueling logic.
Did you miss this thread matty? Why are you concerned about advancing timing on your SC'd stock ECU car?
I've already shown the Rev-Limiter works to at least 6800rpm. Going further is simple, but simply hasn't been logged. There is more evidence showing it does work, then doesn't. Retarding timing is proven to work on the Blue Emanage and from my tests, it appears to still.
You don't NEED the crank input, it would just make things easier/simpler along with a change in Greddys' RLC map fueling logic.
That's at least a year in reality then.
02-09-2006, 10:23 AM
#36
Same game TS plays Dandy....
They don't have anymore answers/updates to give, so they avoid the guys hounding them and toss BS to everyone else.
I hope Greddy comes through, but I wouldn't hold your breath anytime soon guys. Buy the EU for what it does now or don't buy it at all unless you feel like leaving your engine management up in the air.
I let TS lead me on for over 2yrs. plus I spent money on spare ECUs to end up getting no where.
They don't have anymore answers/updates to give, so they avoid the guys hounding them and toss BS to everyone else.
I hope Greddy comes through, but I wouldn't hold your breath anytime soon guys. Buy the EU for what it does now or don't buy it at all unless you feel like leaving your engine management up in the air.
I let TS lead me on for over 2yrs. plus I spent money on spare ECUs to end up getting no where.
02-09-2006, 11:14 AM
#37
Ya I hear you.. but at this point I still believe the update is in the works.
Your TS experience sounds like a real nightmare, sorry to hear that.
I can't speak for anyone else but when I bought the EU it was worth it enough to me even for its current capabilities, but I was also looking ahead to the VQ35 swap. It already works on the VQ35 so I knew I could re-use it when I did the swap.
Your TS experience sounds like a real nightmare, sorry to hear that.
I can't speak for anyone else but when I bought the EU it was worth it enough to me even for its current capabilities, but I was also looking ahead to the VQ35 swap. It already works on the VQ35 so I knew I could re-use it when I did the swap.
02-09-2006, 11:32 AM
#38
You sure about the VQ35? I thought SR or someone said the CPS between the FWD and RWD were different.
TS pretty much finished the ECU, but decided it wasn't worth their time to sell for such a small 2001 market even with 20 or so tenative cash-n-hand orders. IMO, Greddy may find that what the module costs to make wouldn't be marketable.
Anyways, you just make sure you get yourself and I one, so we don't get left out.
TS pretty much finished the ECU, but decided it wasn't worth their time to sell for such a small 2001 market even with 20 or so tenative cash-n-hand orders. IMO, Greddy may find that what the module costs to make wouldn't be marketable.
Anyways, you just make sure you get yourself and I one, so we don't get left out.
Originally Posted by DandyMax
Ya I hear you.. but at this point I still believe the update is in the works. What I take with a LARGE grain of salt is the timelines they give... haha. And I do have a backup plan to put more pressure on them if I find I'm getting nowhere and another six months go by.
Your TS experience sounds like a real nightmare, sorry to hear that.
I can't speak for anyone else but when I bought the EU it was worth it enough to me even for its current capabilities, but I was also looking ahead to the VQ35 swap. It already works on the VQ35 so I knew I could re-use it when I did the swap.
Your TS experience sounds like a real nightmare, sorry to hear that.
I can't speak for anyone else but when I bought the EU it was worth it enough to me even for its current capabilities, but I was also looking ahead to the VQ35 swap. It already works on the VQ35 so I knew I could re-use it when I did the swap.
02-09-2006, 11:36 AM
#39
I just don't understand why we need a seperate box. Couldn't they just add it to the current software or just split up the firmware like for some engines have this one and other ones have this one if they were running out of space.
02-09-2006, 11:47 AM
#40
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
You sure about the VQ35? I thought SR or someone said the CPS between the FWD and RWD were different.
TS pretty much finished the ECU, but decided it wasn't worth their time to sell for such a small 2001 market even with 20 or so tenative cash-n-hand orders. IMO, Greddy may find that what the module costs to make wouldn't be marketable.
Anyways, you just make sure you get yourself and I one, so we don't get left out.
TS pretty much finished the ECU, but decided it wasn't worth their time to sell for such a small 2001 market even with 20 or so tenative cash-n-hand orders. IMO, Greddy may find that what the module costs to make wouldn't be marketable.
Anyways, you just make sure you get yourself and I one, so we don't get left out.
Hehe I will do everything in my power, and like I said, I do have a backup plan or two.
And yes I am 100% sure about the FWD VQ35. I have been talking off and on for a while with someone who's using it (crank signal and all) on an 04 (03 made) Altima.