Any comments/suggestions? lol.

:EDIT:

setup is COMPLETE


DE-K SSIM
TB coolant bypass
Injen intake
Land Rover MAF
Cattman gen 1 headers
Minute Muffler custom 2.5" b-pipe/turbo manifold
Minute Muffler/Vibrant Performance custom 3" axleback/downpipe
Minute Muffler/Treadstone Performance custom 2" charge piping
Garrett T3/T4 hybrid .60 trim turbocharger
HKS SSQV ver 2 blow off valve
Turbonetics Deltagate Mark II wastegate
Deatschwerks 440cc fuel injectors
PLX R-300 wideband o2 datalogger
A'PEXi VAFCII controller
A'PEXi pen style turbo timer
13 degrees retarded timing
raised target idle RPM


my engine revs to 6600rpm.




Thanks to Streetzlegend by inspiring me to do this.

 

I meant to put "Magnaflow" instead of "Flowmaster" tips.

Hoses will be secured with T-bolt clamps to ensure they don't fly off. It seems that 4x 90 degree couplers are kinda restricting though.

I could mount the turbo horizontally to reduce charge pressure and eliminate 1x 90.

How am I gonna get a vacuum line all the way back to the WG without it melting?


Also is 3" charge piping necessary? or should I got with 2.5" charge piping?

 

I think a 3" Catback and intake piping will hurt you.

 

I agree with sonic. You would be better off going with a 2.5" exhaust. Also, I think the 1.15 A/R on the turbo is going to be way too big. Other than that things look good. Good luck with your project.

 

Interesting. Good luck. I'll attempt this also one day.

 

yea that ar is too big for a traditional setup let alone a remote that is a lil more of a task to spin. u may want to look into a smaller turbo and exhuast piping and you should be all set then

 

Exhaust piping needs to be 2.5". Reason turbo folks use 3" catback is because its after the turbo, keep in mind that on a RMT your catback would actually be one big feedpipe, and to keep that velocity flowing all the way to the turbo, 3" would allow it to slow down too much by the time it gets to the turbo.

The turbine is actually pretty good, but thats a massive compressor (you sure you didnt get the A/Rs mixed up?) and its gonna take a while to spool it.

Same reason you wouldnt use the 3" piping for your exhaust (bad for velocity), dont use it on the charge piping. Ultimately you'd want the charge piping to be the same dia as the outlet of the turbo, w/e it may be. Usually recommended to use 2.0-2 1/4" piping. Also, you DO go 3" but thats not until you get to the front of the car. Before the BOV go ahead and step it up with couplers or expanding pipe sections to 3" so that by the time the piping gets to the MAF its already at that 3" dia.

Also, to maintain the velocity of the exhaust gasses on the "feed pipe" (catback), I (and streetz) HIGHLY suggest that you MUST wrap it with header wrap. It makes a huge difference in spool up and response. If you could wrap the ypipe of the headers that would also help, not only spoolup, but also lower under hood temps (supposedly).

Other than that you seem headed the right way- as far as tubing setup goes. Have you sorted out the oil issue? Also I see no mention of an IC. How much boost are you planning on running initially? Because although streetz setup DOES run just fine w/o an intercooler, its only running because of the Alcohol injection. If that pump ever fails or a wire comes loose- if for w/e reason the alcohol doesnt pump and he's not paying attention, he may very well blow the motor. So yes, alcohol does substitute an IC fine, up to a point, but it IS a risky move. Its safer to have the IC as the main source of intake charge cooling.

 

one more thing-

I see that you're not gonna run a muffler???
It doesnt sound that bad at idle mate, lol. But when you're drivin around, it drones like a mother#$^#$ and its very tiring after just a few minutes of cruising. This is on streetz's car, but at least at first he had a 24" resonator and it was annoying, YOU are only gonna have a "resonated test pipe" which honestly wont do a damn thing, (being honest here) lol. So I highly suggest you stick a 3" muffler back there after the turbo, and put at least an 18" resonator. After streetz put a muffler on it.... wow it sounds like a "mean factory exhaust".

So just so you are aware, depending of your level of noise tolerance, you may want to concider putting a 3"muffler after the turbo.

 

I was under the impression that if you were running <5psi you could get away with no IC. But the design of the RMT would make it that much easier to IC the piping. You could almost have an IC right after the compressor (albeit a small one) being cooled by some non-ricer, side duct that you couldn't see if you looked for it. Then, you could run a larger IC towards the front of the charge piping, making for better cooling.

You might also want to weld a protective plate near the charge pipe to keep it from getting ripped off by something, and one near the air filter to keep it semi-clean.

Is there such a thing as an in-line IC for these types of setups? Almost like those old-school duct heaters that have a straight pipe with fins on it, and they're like 10 ft long. I wonder if that would provide sufficient cooling; because the efficiency of the IC would not be as important, because of the length of the charge pipe would allow for a much much larger cooling setup than traditional front-bumper IC's

 

As said before, the turbo and piping are way too big. You are supposed to run a smaller turbo when mounting in in the rear than in the front.

No mention of oil routing? Scavenge pump? 3 mile long oil lines? Is the turbo water cooled?

Your MS paint drawing is cute, but you could have just listed it and we would have known what you are talking about. Still don't see the mystique of the RMT.

 

You can run without an intercooler at low boosts, and it is argued that RMT helps with that. How much it helps if at all, I have no proof one way or another.

I am pretty sure the OP switched the A/R of the turbine and compressor.

 

Give him a break im sure it kept him busy for a while at work , "sorry boss- BIG project coming up, I have to make my sales y0!" j/k lol.

Well there really isnt any "mystique" to an RMT, its just the poor-man's turbo setup running just as hard as the front mount that cost twice as much, lol. All turbo setups have their own pros and cons.

The cons that I see from experience on RMTs on the Maxima..
- Compromise ground clearance for the charge piping
- SLIGHTLY longer wait for spooling than front mount (I say slightly because, if you read the ubber long thread of when the project was completed, that same turbo he's using was front mounted on another 4th gen, and it spooled ~2700. On streetz car, once he wrapped the exhaust, the same turbo spools right at 3000. So really, a 300rpm difference is caca, lol)
- The oil pump deal for the return. Not really a "con" per say, just one more thing that COULD go wrong
- Gotta clean the air filter pretty often, ~2months is good (but thats easy tho, not even worth mentioning)

The Pros that I experienced...
- Stock looking Engine bay (Pop the hood and it just looks like you have a long CAI pipe, dont even see the filter :-X, hell even the headers are there!)
- Under hood temps are no hotter than NA
- Turbo itself runs cooler because it has a fresh blast of air from under the car
- Best of course, ALOT, and I mean ALOT cheaper than a front mount (mostly due to no need for custom ubber piping which is the most expensive part of a turbo build for our cars)

This is all my opinion tho, each is entitled to their own. If you or whoever dont like the RMT idea then thats no problem, cus like I said, each turbo setup has its own set of pros and cons, and we all make our desicions based off of what is more important to us

 

I guess I can fit a small FMIC with same side inlet/outlet at the front.

Like this

 

streetz was running 5psi at first with no pinging at all. Around April was when he added the alcohol injection and had 7.5 psi at the time, and still no pinging (but then again, the hotter days of florida weather had not rolled in by then, it might have ping'd at 7.5 with the 100*F+ temps we had in July/August, lol).

 

Well the exhaust A/R is .60

The intake RATIO is 1.15 (I'm not 100% positive but I think that comes out to .52 compressor A/R) - you divide the exhaust by the ratio to get the size.

This is actually a pretty standard size turbo, not that big not that small.

 

So exhaust goes:

Catback: 2.5"
The turboback 3"

Intake goes:

Turbo to BOV 2.5"
BOV adapter coupler 2.5 - 3"
BOV back 3"


Does that make sense?

 

I forgot to add:

Oil will be done through a oil filter sandwich plate to the turbo and back through a Shurflow scavenge pump back into the oil cap.

There will be a checkvalve installed in the feed line to reduce oil seepage and a turbo timer will be set to 2 mins to reduce oil in the turbo as well (learned from Streetz)

 

What was his timing set to and what was his A/F ratio?

thanks for the quick responses btw!

 

IIRC I'm pretty sure the A/R's are as follows:

Turbine: .60
Compressor: .52


I'm planning on running 10 PSI of boost with stock injectors and stock MAF.

Right now my A/F ratio is in the 10's. Pig rich so i can afford to lean it out a bit right?

 

Can you please post up a compressor map to this turbo? Also IIRC you have an A33b correct?

Well the turbo-to-BOV tubing dia would depend on the dia of the compressor's outlet. Thats how thats supposed to go. So w/e size outlet it is, thats the size of tubing you use.

Good! you paid attention to the oil drama, so you have that set perfect, you're good then (as far as oiling goes).

Stock timing, and a/f was mostly around 11.0-11.5:1

No way will you get away with 10psi on the stock injectors. 5-6psi is where the 3.0guys Max out the stock injectors. 3.5s will do the same, maybe even in less time. Im NA and at redline with the FP set to 55psi, my injectors are already at 80% duty-cycle. Anf you can forget about the stock MAF working with 10psi, you're gonna max it out long before you get there, LOL. I suggest you do like me and make a 3" MAF, or simply get the M62 MAF (check the all motor forum for info on it) and run that bigger MAF. But no, not the MAF nor the injectors will work with 10psi, so factor those into your parts list

 

No, I'm A33A with a DE-K.

I never heard of anyone using a Z32 or the MAF you're talking about on a A33 before though. Our MAF's are different from 4G's.

 

The plug is different, so just like we have to splice the Z32MAF into the A32 harness, you would have to do the same. Our MAFs may be different, but they are the same size, and thats going to be the limiting factor with your desired psi. Streetz stock MAF maxed out at IIRC 7.5-8psi.

Orrrr... do like me and make yourself the 3" MAF for a fraction of the price, lol

Notice zee Ubber MAF made from PVC pipe
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...EngineBay1.jpg

#1= http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...21-07_1245.jpg
#2= http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...21-07_1332.jpg
#3= http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...22-07_1752.jpg
same http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...22-07_1753.jpg

I actually made 1 with with streetz for his car after having made mine. Perhaps he can shime in when he gets back home to speak of the ubberness of it, lol.

But yes, either swap in a bigger MAF, or make your own. And def factor in bigger injectors. Those 290cc wont hold up to 10psi. They'll max out around 5-6psi.

 

orrrr, you could do additional injectors on the midpipe ahead of the TB. This is how Hal used to do his fuel system.

I just called streetz, he says he can get you his exact same scavenge pump, since that one in particular you cant just get anywhere

 

You can use the z32. Its no different....you're still replacing the maf with one not meant for the car.

You'll want bigger injectors reguardless.

DF

 

95BLKMAX -> Doesn't pvc emit gas when its heated? Someone told me this before and apparently the gas is harmful to the engine.

Just throwing it out there (its based SOLELY on hearsay).

DF

 

I never heard of that, I know that if you get it hot enough for it to become tacky/start to melt, it stinks like hell, LOL. Perhaps its those fumes that would be bad for the HEALTH of the sniffer, but Im sure the enigne could still run, LOL. Either way it doesnt get that hot for that to happen. Even when sittin on idle in a hot day, the fans kickin at 210*F and temps just sit there (this is on a stock car, my motor has a t-stat rig that basically my engine never sees more than 190*, lol

 

MaxBoost925, have you bothered to check your compression and do a pre-boost dyno just to verify that all is within "operating parameters"?

 

Again, just throwing it out there just in case.

How long have you had it, because I may want to take on a project like that. I was just worried about it hurting the motor.

DF

 

Since June sir, and all systems go. You HAVE to have a tunine device for it tho. If you have an AFC, all you do is change the MAF input to the Z32s # (02) and youre good to go. Just putting it on off the bat will cause a naty lean situation.

 

why rear mount???

 

Please read Post #12

 

3" is ok, just make sure your fuel curve correlates, I have 3'' intake piping into the turbo with 2" charge piping, works very effectively.
go with 2' of steel braid vacuum line out from the turbo. It shouldn't melt at all. Its the oil drain line temp you want to be concerned about.

 

rear mount it!!!! FTW!!!!!

 

Ok after reading the entire thread, I see you have one unanswered question "how im i gonna run a vacuum lines all the way to the WG back there". You dont, you dont need vacuum on the WG, the WG is only there to detect positive pressure and act on that. So with that said, you get your charge pipe, and drill a hole, then tap it, and then insert a hose barb, do this as close to the turbo as possible (right where the compressor outlet is), then u simply put a hose from there, to the WG.

Now for tuning, Your stock injectors are not going to handle it, they are going to max out when you attempt 10psi. I have 370cc Z32 injectors, I was running with the stock maf since i started about 8 months ago, just this week I put in a maf i made with 95blkmax (which i REALLY recommend), its very responsive, alot quicker from a stop, etc...
- You can do an additional injector which basically you have an injector mounted on ur intake and sprays (like a nitrous fuel nozzle), HLH and Alvaro(another local turbo dude) had it like this, i think alvaro's car is still running around strong up in maryland somewhere. Some dont like this idea because the stock injectors, still max out so it increases the chances of failure, but I dont remember hearing of that happenign to anyone yet.

- You can get larger injectors depending on how much power ur planning for in the future, 370cc are perfect in my opinion for 10psi range. I think the Dutycyle on mine at 10psi are about low 70's%.

Charge Pipe/Exhaust
- I like the fact that your not going to have resonators or anyting on ur exhaust piping, just a straight resonator pipe (which dosnt do anything), In my opinion, try to put as least things possible before the turbo, dont put any, any resonator or mufflers before the turbo. that way air is more direct and less restricted, depending on your noise tolerance you can leave it with no muffler and just have a pipe from the turbo to the tip (i had that for a long time), till eventually i got tired and put a muffler, NOW, do NOT put a small muffler, i made the mistake to put a 2.5" inlet/outlet muffler and it hurt me, so try n get a 3" inlet/outlet dynomax. I also put a cutout before the muffler for when i wanna terrorize my neighborhood (the noise) and put down more power. also, 2.5" piping in the exhaust is fine, dont go bigger or it will take for ever to spool up.
- the charge pipe, i have 2" from the turbo, all the way to the front below the transmission, then i have a coupler that goes from 2" to 3" so a 3" pipes goes up passing the fans, then bends and goes into the maf and into the TB. I think 2" is just fine, im not sure what the limit of it will be though as far as power, but so far is dyno proven for 300whp in my car. I am sure if i try n go for 400+whp i'll need a 3" or 2.5". For now 2" is fine and perfect for ground clearance.

Cooling
- now for cooling, you can do what i did, water/methanol injection, kit cost 200 bucks.
- you can do an IC which actually its easier than doing it on a front mount turbo. I actually suggest you do a traditional opposite side inlet/outlet IC, i used to like the idea of doing same side, but its no reason for that specially the fact that same side IC dosnt necessarily cool more either, so if you wanna do an IC, do a regular one like any one on here. the size depends on the power u wanna put down, thats something any front mount turbo guy can help you out with.

also, i dont kno what you currently have but i STRONGLY!!! suggest and recommend you purchase a wideband o2. its a must for any FI or any moded car for that matter. I have saved thousands tuning myself, also you can simply tune using a SAFC or any of those devices, i am using an emanage blue.

Im glad someone else is trying this finally, iv had countless emails of poeple wanting me to do a kit for them or asking about the idea because they are intersted, ur the 1st to actually go for it. good luck.

 

:O

I never adjusted the setup parameters on my VAFC when I added my z32 maf. Very interesting, are the parameters the same for a VAFC?

Great thread guys, tons of useful info.

 

Good question. Also, I would like to ask is it 02 in 01 out, 02 in 02 out, or some other combo?

Thanks,

DF

 

where are you getting this 1.15 figure? I've never, ever heard of anything like this calculation you seem to be doing.

If you're interested, I have the 2 RC 750cc injectors and the intake pipe they are installed in, just sitting around here from Hal's turbo setup. If you decide you want to go with auxiliary injectors for your additional fuel requirements let me know. They are in good working order as far as I know (helped propel me to 11.7s).

 

Sorry Neal, I'm still new to compressor/turbing sizing, The turbo I'm talking about is availible from SSautochrome in a package.

If you look on the website under "turbos" you'll see it - its the last one. I still have to call them to make sure what the hell the specs are.

 

Sounds interesting. I'd rather have larger injectors to begin with. But for sure the Z32 TT injectors don't fit my DEK? How come they work on 4th gen VQ30's?

 

You can't use the z32s because you have top feed injectors. You can use 335cc 350z injectors, but you'd probably be better off with some larger DWs or RCs.