maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

Actually I just ghetto rig my driving since the ecu wants to do it's thing. Open loop and closed loop is determined by the tps so when I am in boost I pretty much keep the pedal buried. I did not do any tricks to keep the car in open loop all the time because it is a daily driver and in my case there is no need for it, I'd rather have good gas mileage too. On the additonal injection map you just put positive values. Start with values like 5 because it is just an extended pulsewidth signal, it's not like the airflow map. I did build an dual o2 clamp but I have not tested it out yet. Basically the car runs lean going into boost or partial throttle and the o2 clamp gives the ecu a lean reading and causes the ecu to richen the afr. But I think you should be able to make enough adjustments through the injection map to limit the problem.

jordandalley

Hi streetz,

Max boost is 10.5 psi @ 6000 rpm. Yes, it is intercooled.

I monitor pinging by listening.

No ignition harness yet. I do have one but I'm a bit confused on the wiring on that one. I have the injector harness installed though... but I don't know if that can help me or not.

Ok, so my biggest issue is that the ECU seems to be fighting with the Emanage. It's leaning my corrections out to 14.7 all the time. How do I fix this?

In regards to ignition timing... what do you do in an ignition timing map? Does a timing map override what the ECU is doing, or does it add or subtract from what the ECU is doing like Air Flow corrections? In which case.. where do I want my timing to be, and at what throttle position and rpm? I assume this would be a fairly static thing for boost and wouldnt really depend on what mods you have as far as boost goes. You'd probably just pick some safe values and tune from there... correct?

jordandalley

maxgtr.. thanks for that. It makes sense to me now.

Thats basically how i drive right now. I lilly foot the thing or I go WOT, because I know whats in the middle is crap... still... to keep the ECU into open loop somehow would be good.

jordandalley

Interesting topic... worth a try? http://forums.maxima.org/supercharge...discovery.html

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

FYI for the ignition harness wiring, its actually quite simple, just find the right pinouts and use this diagram

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Wanna know how I bypassed the Closed loop (14.7) since 4 years ago? Simple, I disconnected both my front o2 sensors so the car dosnt know if to lean or richen so it forces it to open loop. Then from there I do all the tuning, part throttle, idle, WOT, everything. cruising and out of boost I got my a/f at 14.7 with no o2 sensors, ofcourse this is only if you dont mind the check engine light (I dont even have a bulb in my light lol). If you have inspections (we dont), then when ever you take the car in, just hook up the o2's and your good.

As for the ignition tuning, its actually simple, same as with air flow you subtract or add timing. I would have to dig up this Excel sheet I made which gives me the timing curves and how much corrections I should put based on the timing I want. Basically the stock ECU goes from low timing like 16 to sometimes 25degrees advanced. North of 5k rpm is when its in the 20's so what you can do is just subtract say 5degree's (-5) from 5k and on. Something important, you cant all of a sudden subtract -5 though you have to gradually increase at least in 2degree increments so you dont get hesitation or misses. Its been a while since I tuned the timing since now I let the J&S take care of that for me, but that was my method. Also try to find a better way of detecting knock, yes i know is tough but when you can already hear the pinging that means it has been pinging for a long time before that. on the 3.0 I always had my a/f at high 10's to stay away from knock, even with meth.

jordandalley

Gemner, thanks for that diagram. I'm a bit confused by the pinout. Obviously I have to connect channels 1 - 6, but this diagram below is the only one I could find which shows me the ignition pins, except none of them are labelled by channels? Does it not matter which pin connects to which channel? See below:



Hi streetz - if you can divulge your spreadsheet info, I would be most appreciative! I don't have anything to look at timing. I think if I retard my timing enough and put enough fuel in, then I'll see my pinging between gears issue disappear.... with any luck...

I have unplugged my three O2 sensors.. two on front and rear bank of headers and one in the cat. I don't get a CEL though.. mind you, the australian and japanese cars are OBD-I not OBD-II. The only way you get a CEL is when you put the ECU into diagnostics mode.

Managed to tune it so that its running way richer in the middle. Things are looking better. All I need to do now is get my timing sorted.

jordandalley

Is this correct?? http://wiki.maximasdownunder.org/dok...harness_wiring

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Do you have an FSM handy? you might want to verify there but i am almost sure its in this order:

123
456

in the positions where you see in the diagram, it might actually not matter since the emanage does not use the firing order, it just delays the channels (or advance when advancing timing). just make sure you do one at a time, so you dont run the risk off swapping wires with another coil, you'll end up with wrong firing order and bad things can happen lol

jordandalley

Sounds good. I'll pop this in on the weekend.

Do you have any suggestions of what to put in my ignition timing map as a safe base?

jordandalley

I've got my 300ZX MAF in.. now does anyone know what I should be putting into my timing corrections as a good base?

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

There are some baselines you can use if you google around for tuning help, but ultimately if you aren't experienced with tuning you ought to go get it done, especially in a boosted car

jordandalley

Easy to say but where I live there isn't anyone to tune my car. I have to do it myself...

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

Proceed at your own risk with the following information:

I use the map sensor
(greddy pressure sensor) and do my timing by boost pressure. . On the safe side I did -1 degree starting at 3psi. Every brand of vehicle is different, some say -1 degree per psi. a tuner would be able to detect knock and give you a better timing setup because too much retard kills power and raises egts. Do a search on iginition timing in this forum and you will find some more info.

If you don't have the pressure sensor you can log your maf voltage at a specific boost level and start mapping the ignition retard from there. So if your maf voltage is 3.53v at 3 psi then in that box and given rpm you start -1. The amount you retard changes at peak power and redline so search.

jordandalley

I have bought a boost pressure sensor for the emanage. I will install this alongside the Z32 MAF and retune.

So if I do -1 degree of timing per psi starting from 3 psi I should be sweet? All I need is a safe platform.. I plan to make a long trip one day to a proper dyno tuner, but for the time being I need something that is safe to drive. I'll keep the AFR at around 11.5 and things should be sweet? I suppose I might have to make the trip to a dyno to check it out.

Thanks for your post though. I did do a search on ignition timing in this forum but didnt find much conclusive stuff.

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

http://forums.maxima.org/6351857-post2.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4209804-post3.html
http://forums.maxima.org/supercharge...ll-timing.html
http://forums.maxima.org/supercharge...-you-pull.html

Seems like Neal is the man on this subject. Good info here, I even learned a bit and need to experiment a little according to these posts. Like I said, turbo and s/c will be different and you shouldn't have to pull much. An interesting fact is in the last thread that has the graph it shows ecu timing with no/a dead knock sensor.

jordandalley

Thanks for that.

I have installed the Z32 MAF and it seems to have solved a lot of tuning issues I was having.

I have also pulled a little bit of timing. Not much, but about -4 degrees at max around 10 psi.

I have also installed a Greddy MAP sensor but I am having issues with getting it to function properly. I have selected "Greddy PR" from the Parameter Settings window and applied it. However, I only see an option to select "Relative Pressure" from the ignition timing map. If I select the Air Flow Adjustment map, there is no drop down menu to select Relative Pressure. Not only this, but the pressure is reporting in Kpa and not PSI.

I am running support tool version 1.49.

In other words... how do I get mine to look like this?

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

The emanage blue does not support PSI, only kpa. You have to learn to know what the conversion is.

jordandalley

Not only that, but it doesnt seem to support using "Relative Pressure" against the "Air Flow Adjustment" map.

This is crap because I'm running into issues with it pinging a little between gear changes.

For example.. I can set the AFR to be pretty much perfect on 11.0 - 11.5 from 3k rpm to 6.5k rpm, but if I hold WOT through 2nd gear to 3rd, the AFR will go up to 13.5 AFR for a split second before returning to 11.5. This causes some pinging and I have tried different adjustments to get around this. I have tried dumping heaps of fuel in at 6,000 rpm - this helps a little but it will still ping. So, my only option has been to change the air flow adjustment to richen the mixture at 4,000 - 4,500 rpm where the gear lands when it kicks into third. However, then this makes my AFR 10.2 which is too rich for normal through-gear acceleration. Not sure how you get around this.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Then just tune using voltage, I tuned using voltage for like more than a year or two, I had a GM Map sensor. Just gotta know what the voltages equates to in psi, I had the conversion written on the laptop but eventually knew it by memory.

is your car automatic?
You get a little spiking of boost between shifts, depending how much slip you have on the tranny. have you tried retarding timing at the shift? maybe pull another 2 or 3 degree's.

jordandalley

Hi streetz - yes, I have pulled as much as -6 degrees timing with no noteable difference.

Problem is, I don't have a drop down menu on the Air Flow Adjustment map to select the MAP sensor..... I only seem to have that option on the injector and ignition timing maps... weird.. is this normal?

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

hmm, cant remember a whole lot how the blue was, but thats weird, you should be able to get a drop down with air flow adjustment.

I used to tune Air Flow with boost voltage x rpm.

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

The airflow map doesn't have any options other than change scale so I think that map works off of tps. If you have applied enough fuel and it still pings, your timing may be too advanced still. I am in the process of retuning my car since my ks was dead and I didn't realize it. I started getting all kinds of pinging with a working ks, I retarded quite a bit and still get a little in the lower ranges. I am thinking the injector correction factor has something to do with it. If the injector correction factor has you advanced at 2 degrees in all rpm ranges then you have to subtract 2 degrees to be where you are supposed to be. Just a thought, also double check your fuel pressure and make sure it is right.

jordandalley

I'm sure someone has had this issue before though right? So I need to inject more fuel in during boost spikes? I guess I could tune the car with the injector map which currently is untouched but will take input from a map sensor. Here's my theory... what do you think? .. .

I hear that the injector map only allows you to add more fuel, and not subtract. With a stock unmodified map, 300ZX maf and 555cc injectors, my AFR sits a little to the rich side. To get it perfect I'm making air flow adjustments of -10 maximum to get a perfect 11.5. So, If I made an Air flow map of solid -15's across the 80% - 100% throttle position, then using the injector map, add fuel back on using boost pressure. So will this work to give me more fuel during boost spikes?

In regards to timing, I was hesitant to pull more than -4 degrees because apparently this causes a higher EGT? Wouldn't this also cause pinging or pre-ignition?

jordandalley

Well I took the car out again and did a cruise tune...

I set the entire air flow adjustment map to -10.

I then set up the injector map to boost vs rpm and tuned from there. I have tuned the car to 11 AFR and all seems to be going well.

I have set the timing to maximum -7 degrees of timing from 5,500 - 6,500 rpm. Things seem to be good.

I live in a pretty tropical climate.. maybe 10.5 - 11.0 is an ideal tune for me...

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

10.5-11 is not bad, that is considered a safe conservative tune, I tuned mid 10's for like two years with the 3.0, even WITH meth, i was prob being way to conservative, but I rem when I got into the 11's and up it would occasionally knock.

Have you tried putting negative numbers on the injector map? dosnt make sense as to why you wont be able to remove fuel via injector! just put a negative value and see if it tells you, actually on the top right corner it should say what it allows and what increments.

And yes, too much timing retard will cause high EGT's, but we're talking about alot of retard, when I first put the J&S my car was missing like crazy, turns out once I increased the timing, it ran strong and never misfired again. as long as you keep the timing in the mid teen's your good. with -7 at higher rpms your at about 17degree's of timing roughly depending how much the MAF correction is moving the curve.

jordandalley

Thanks streetz.

I think I might do more of a conservative tune and keep it between 10.5 - 11. Any pinging is bad I guess.

I can't put negative numbers into the injector map. It is an emanage blue, I'm pretty sure that is one of its limitations.

The only option is to remove fuel using the air flow adjustment map and add fuel back in with the injector map... as far as I can tell, this is the only option...

Other than that, the map I'm running - whilst it is rough, seems to be working quite well. No pinging to report and a heap of power. I'm pretty sure that 300ZX MAF has actually added more power, if that's possible...

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Doubt the maf would add more power unless its indirectly adding timing from it being larger or different calibration perhaps. I say keep it conservative, and check your plugs after all this tuning, just to make sure they still looking good and dont show sign of detonation.

jordandalley

Thanks for all your help Streetz - Looks like I'm pretty much right now...

I've gone from stock injectors running a 8:1 FMU, stock MAF, only a air flow adjustment on the blue to 555cc injectors, no FMU, Z32 MAF, Injector and Ignition harnesses and a MAP sensor. I think she's making way more power now. It gets up to stupid speeds pretty quick.

You have to hold the steering wheel pretty tight when overtaking people on the highways. If you accelerate and it drops to second at WOT and you steer to pass the car in front, sometimes the steering has a mind of its own.. lol. Torque steer is a pain - other than that I'm pretty happy with it.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

I am glad its running good now. Enjoy!

jordandalley

Believe me, I will!!

maxam

I have a question about e manage blue .

can the e manage blue rise the rev limits ? and how ???