Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Ok before anybody says search, I have, came up with some snippets of ****ty information not answering a single question that I have.

Basically what I'm trying to find out is if the Haltech Platinum Pro stand-alone for the z33 would be compatible with my build. Ive got a 3.5 with 3.0 timing.

Now from what I understand the main issue is the crank and cam sensor signals?

Would I be able to use the Haltech and keep the 3.0 timing components?


Thanks

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

I guess nobody knows. Only one way to find out

TurboA32

iTrader: (36)

well its for a z33 so i dont think so unless you did a complete engine/harness swap like in a 240sx then it will work. but the sensors on a 4th gen are different

TurboA32

iTrader: (36)

why dont you just get an EMU

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Because my build is going to require more tuning abilities than an E-manage has.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

If you haven't already, check the last page of my "Something..." thread in Nitrous. I have the same problem and I'm talking to a Haltech rep about a solution.

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

I read parts of it, but you are referring to the piggy back haltech correct?


Ive been looking at the haltech websites and they have multiple diff. hall effect type sensors available along with the rare earth magnets needed to use them.

man this stand alone **** is confusing

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

No, I'm planning on the Haltech Platinum Sport 2000 which is a standalone. The trick would be to find a way to get around the 3.0 sensors and use 3.5 sensors - which would require a crank trigger wheel to provide the flex plate timing. I want to start with the ignition and injectors and go on from there.

It's a work in progress....

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Oh ok cool, I'm not sure why I thought you were talking piggy back.


What about using these that Haltech sells for there universal stand alone units. (PS200 Autospec)?

http://www.haltech.com/store/index.p...ct-sensor.html

I'm know that a trigger wheel would be needed but would it be a wheel that had a rare earth magnet in the same spot as the stock trigger marks on the crank pulley?

Also how would it work for the flywheel timing ring?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

In reverse order - the factory 3.5 intake cam sensors will work with the Haltech "Platinum Sport 2000" ecu - (that's a mouthful) - which is a total stand-alone. The timing pattern from a 3.5 flex plate would be required to be built into a trigger wheel using a hall-effect sensor... That's all the Haltech 2000 requires - except for their water and air temp sensors. They use their built-in MAP sensor.

This is all said in the posts in my thread. I don't know anything about any other Haltech ecu - and very little about the 2000, other than what I was told (in the thread) by Fusionworks.

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Ok so technically, even with 3.0 timing using 3.5 cams you could still have the 3.5 cam sensors on the heads( since they bolt to the back instead of the front). Then just get a 3.5 flex plate, and some how transfer the timing ring to a 3.0 flywheel.

hmmm seems simple on paper but we all know how that goes lol

My bad for making another thread, I think maybe aackshun was talking about a piggy in your thread which made me want to make a new one since I want stand alone.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

No bad ... the more people thinking about the idea, the more likely a solution may pop up. The only way you can keep the 3.0 timing working is to keep the original three 3.0 sensors connected. To use the Haltech 2000 requires the cam sensors and the 3.5 flexplate timing - and I don't see any easy way to make one flex plate have both. But - someone might figure it out. Heck, aackshun is playing with custom flywheel now - maybe he can figure out something.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

Before you guys jump all over Haltech, we have our own line of standalone that will work with your 3.0 , 3.5

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/ here is the info

This is from the UK site but we are the ONLY US dealer

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

That does look pretty good.

It can read the cam/crank sensors of the VQ30? Or does it also need another trigger?

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Well If i was to use the 3.5 cam sensors then the 3.0 sensor would just be to plug the hole in the timing cover. The Haltech would still be able to get its cam signals through the 3.5 sensors on the heads.

I'm just shooting ideas lol

The only reason I want to keep 3.0 timing is the mechanical parts. I personally think they are better than 3.5 parts.

essential1

iTrader: (5)

I can vouch for how powerful this standalone is. I've seen it running in a few cars first hand. And currently, a close friend of mine is running it in his VQ powered car. It's definitely a powerful piece of equipment.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

yes it can read the sensor , esp 4th gen

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Thanks for speaking up on this ECU. Lots of questions... I read the specs and saw where there were 3 ignition channels. What does that mean? Only three coils allowed ?? If the K3 is the big guy on the block, and it will operate off the 4th gen sensors, will it operate the ignition and injectors while the stock ECU is operating? Do you have any VQ30 maps available?

If you're the only dealer in the US, that makes "local" support kinda unlikely. How do you handle new installations and later support? Has your shop installed a lot of these? What's your installed price for one of these?

Of course I'm interested - but i gotta ask questions. Thanks again for speaking up.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

We are thee US dealer, my boss is from UK and we only deal with Jenvey , Emerald and ACT and Reverie

our products are race proven overseas.

our Boxes are FIA approved.

Grey Ive given you the info # in the past when you inquire about the Jenvey ITB's

This is our website www.emeraldperformance.com

Ask for Mack , he can tell you the in's and out's of this box more than I could, more features, 2step launch, adapted driving.

I know you guys with the 3.0 will need to run a trigger wheel which we already have designed when we did another b15 VQ swap, with the K3 box.

one of essential1 buddy is running , and I heard hes been running pretty strong

If I wasn't running the Pro-EFI in my6thgen I would have gladly went over with the K3 box.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

So tell us more... Does it have the capability to run 6 injectors, 6 coil parks, cam and two crank sensors for the vehicle??? Also idle bump up request for A/C, two speed fan controls, user definable tables for various events, and different input and outputs for the crazy hybrids like me that wanna keep things stock (so I can keep my stock gauge cluster, and other things like that).....

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Yeh besides all the other question about the K3, I would be mainly worried about local tuners knowing the system and feeling comfortable tuning with it.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

From the site, it will drive all 6 injectors independently and it will run all 6 coils using a wasted spark method. No problems with that IMO.

essential1

iTrader: (5)

The car is completely untuned (hopefully the begining of October it will be) and at part throttle your stuck to the damn seat lol.

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Alright, back to the Haltech. I was brainstorming today at work and thought of something that may work.

(Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this I'm just throwing things out here)


1. The 3.0 and 3.5 mechanical timing is around the same( not the actual timing parts but the "timing" of cams and and what have have you)?

2. Since the Haltech will work with the 3.5 sensors I figure use:
-3.5 cam sensor
-3.5 upper oil pan
-3.5 crank sensor

3. Thinking on the issue of the alignment of the flywheel and 3.5 ring gear, you could:
-set a stock 3.5 to cyl. #1 TDC on comp. stroke
-mark reference points on both 3.0 and 3.5 flywheels and ring gear
-Somehow transfer 3.5 ring gear to 3.0 flywheel using reference marks.
-Attach 3.0 flywheel in the same alignment as 3.5 and then hope and pray that the phase angles are right? lol

This seems to me like it would work but I'm not that positive.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

For what it's worth, the Haltech rep at Fusionworks is now asking for the VQ30 timing patterns - like what Dandymax made while working with Greddy to get the VQ30 as part of their EU.

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Hmm one step closer I guess lol

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Anything to rid of the need for an external timing wheel....

or mods to the flywheel/flex plate.....

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I pm'd dandy a few days ago for the pics, i prob wont be able to get them for a few days...

likely late next week.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Anyone see this thread on a VQ30 trigger wheel? Kinda different..

http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...-flywheel.html

And Dandymax's sensor timing posts - but the links don't work anymore:

http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/4...eth-count.html

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

D'oh Harold!!!!!

That's what I'm doing now!!!

http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/6...-0-timing.html

And anyone who can still do calculus can figure out the teeth, kinda simple formula that I can't remember now.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

But - I would need the 3.5 350Z flywheel pattern cut on an external crank timing wheel - because I'll still need the 3.0 flex plate in place...

Dark_man_x

iTrader: (4)

Same concept. I think this would work man. I'm pretty sure the FWD and RWD 3.5 timing rings are the same. Would just be a matter of lining it up PERFECTLY on the flex plate/flywheel and bolting it on the crank in the right position.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

The 3.5 flex plate is keyed to the crank, so it's easy to know how a crank sensor needs to be aligned. A crank trigger plate is a small disk with teeth or notches that match a pattern - and there is a sensor mounted to read it, like the rear crank does. Since the 3.5 has a keyed pattern of three groups of ten notches evenly spaced around the timing ring, we need to copy that exact pattern onto a trigger plate and mount it to the front pulley, then mount a pickup sensor in just the right place. Simple, right?

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)

It's nice to see more people playing with standalones.

I took a Honda AEM box and converted it to run my old VQ30 engine (Cam and Crank) as well as my VQ35 with VQ35 timing. I could have taken my VQ35 head timing and run it with VQ30 flywheel timing or vice versa too if I wanted to. One thing I like about AEM it is flexible and can do almost any timing. The VQ30 timing was bizarre. I have graphs of that on my old computer somewhere. Here are the VQ35's (see attachment)

In reply to this .. I had thought of doing a similar thing of matching and cross referencing. Then figured it is easier (for my set up) to just bolt everything on. Leave all the plugs out, plug in number 1 coil pack and spark plug. Allow the spark plug to spark against a ground to trigger the timing light and turn over the engine watching the timing mark with timing light. If you take a look at the graph I have attached, you can see what the standalone sees. The AEM basically counts the teeth and looks for missing ones. Where they are in the cycle doesn't really matter a huge amount until you start playing with variable valve timing. The standalone should have parameters you can tweak on teeth to sync up timing, so even if you are off, the software should allow you to bring it back in.

As for head, the are not the same. The VQ35 head has variable timing. The VQ30 does not. Trigger is different for sure.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Nothing about the VQ30 here, but does mention the VQ35:

Nissan 350z Vehicle Hazards!

Postby HaltechScott on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:41 am
The Platinum Sport/Sprint 1.09 Firmware/Software now supports the Nissan 350z/HR trigger type. Below is a list of info and things we have noticed that may come in handy if you are fitting an ECU to this engine family.

Haltech Specific:
Tooth offset for VQ35 350z = 3
Tooth offset for VQ35 FWD Maxima = 0
If the engine is syncing (correct cam/crank trigger) the Triggers Per home will read - 1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6 etc.
If it is not syncing it will read 7 all the time (RPM will read accurately).

I have attached a tuned 350z map to this post to help with the trigger settings. Please note if the ECU is used in stand alone mode you weill need to turn the trigger and home pull up's on. If you use the ECU in piggyback mode you will need to leave the trigger and home pull ups off (Failure to do this will result in NO RPM)
Also attached to this post is a scope trace of what the Crank/Cam signals should look like, as well as a picture of an aftermarket flywheel brand showing 2 different dowel holes depending on if the engine is FWD or RWD.

The engine may have a sync problem if:
Timing chain is fitted incorrectly
Wrong flywheel is being used (Please do not mix and match 350z and Maxima flywheels)
Flywheel is mounted incorrectly (do not remove any locating dowels)
Very small scratches or dents on the flywheel can cause trigger problems, make sure the flywheel is in good condition.
The Crank sensor (mounted in the bell housing) is notoriously bad and is often replaced in factory applications

Wiring is as follows:

Trigger - Crank sensor (In the side of the bell housing)
Home - Bank 1 Inlet cam sensor
Timed input 1 - Bank 2 Inlet cam sensor
DPO3 - Intake Cam solinoid Bank 1
DPO4 - Intake Cam solinoid Bank 2

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I took another look at Emerald's home page, and I see the new K6 listed - this seems a much more capable ECU than the K3.


http://www.emeraldm3d.com/k6

Apparently it can drive six ignition coils - and six injectors - directly from the ECU. Looks like a trigger wheel may still be needed, though.

EDIT: They sell the trigger wheels - and there are four different sizes! And all the sensors as well. This thing looks real.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

So what do you know about the Emerald K6? Has your shop installed one yet? The specs look good and they offer the correct trigger wheel and sensors, I see. If the K6 can work with their crank trigger on my front pulley and the installed VQ35 in-head cam sensors, I'm interested.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

Grey just called the # on our website and speak with Mack

www.emeraldperformance.com

as Ive said we are the US dealers for Emerald and Jenvey.

the Man that supplies them also is the man that installed them in-house and has done many ECU setups for caterhams , Lotus just to name a few.

We have our own trigger wheel and a few cut in-house.

If you want to inquire about it then give us a ring , Mack can tell you more than I can as im still learning the system myself and fiddling on the laptop with the settings.

if you want to inquire Haltech we have one of the BEST tuners in the U.S. right next door to us.

Crispeed ( google his name )

and we also sold a set of Jenvey ITB's to HAL @ injected peformance for their g35 project , HAL has done alot of VQ tuning as well

Shift_Max

iTrader: (18)

Plus +1 for Hal at Dynosty

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Dan (DandyMax) was kind enough to share this information with me.

Here are Cam and front and rear Crank timing waveforms:

Cam: ----------------------------------------------------------




Cam and Front Crank:--------------------------------------------





Rear Crank: ------------------------------------------------------




---------------------------------------------------------------------

With this information (and some other diagrams not shown here - great work, from 2005 ! ), maybe there's enough information to get an answer from Haltech and Emerald about their compatibility w/VQ30 engine timing....