Had my tires balanced at a tire shop this week and I was offered a choice. I have never heard the term Static Balance before. They used wheel weights but placed them on the inside of the rim edge. Any thoughts? The salesrep said it would give me a better balnce.

 

They usually do that on aftermarket rims. Do you have oem ones?

 

No they are aftermarket, I guess that I was just used to what my Nissan Dealerships was doing. Come to think of, I ordered my rims/tires as a combo off the internet. They came balanced and I don't remember seeing any sticky weights on those. Is one better than the other or is it just for aesthetics?

 

So your dealer was installing the wheel weights on the outter edge of your aftermarket wheels? Most aftermarket wheels I've seen don't have those types of weight, not to mention they look pretty tacky. I'm not so sure about this so don't quote me on it, but I think the orientation of the weights being installed has something to do with whether a wheel is hub-centric or lug-centric. I know most after market wheels are lug-centric (thus the conical type lugs are necessary to mount them on the car). Hub-centric wheels necessitate the flat ended type lugs. This info might be in the 4th gen FAQ, maybe elsewhere.

 

Wheel weights and their location have nothing to do with whether the wheel has a centric ring or not, it 's all about whether the wheel has a mounting lip for the clip-on weights or it does'nt.

There are seven different possible combinations of wheel weight placing:
1. Clip on weights on both the inner and outer flanges -this is what u normally find on steel wheels
2. Clip on weights on the inside flange, tape weights close to or on the outside flange, provided there is a flat surface to mount the weights to.
3. Clip on weights on the inside flange, tape weights on the wheels on the relatively flat area right behind the spokes
4, 5. and 6: same as above but with tape weights on the inner side of the wheel in lieu of the clip on weights.
7. Static balancing which does not use outer or inner weights and instead uses one 'row' of weights about mid-way betwen the outside and inside flanges of the wheel.

The best balance is obtained when the weights can be located as far outside the wheel diameter and outboard and inboard as possible, meaning clip-on weights are the best -but of course, that will ruin many allow wheels and is also impossible on wheels that dont have an inboard lip to hang the clip-on weight on, hence the typical alloy wheel is mounted with tape weights just behind the spokes balancing the wheel radially and another set of tape weights as far inboard as possible balancing the wheel axially.

Static balancing using just one row of weights midway between the inboard and outboard flanges is the least effective way of balancing alloy wheels

 

What Galo said.

To which I'll add that static balancing is the way they did things down at the corner gas station/garage 40 years ago on 5.5" wide wheels with 83 profile bias-ply (not even belted) tires.

While it's better than not balancing at all, it's still a crude method, being nothing more than what you can accomplish using a 360* surface level. This is true regardless of how fancy the machine they actually use is - most wheel balancers still retain static balancing as an option.

Static balancing will not correct dynamic imbalance, which typically shows up as a rotational vibration at the steering wheel rim. Static imbalance usually shows up as a vertical shake of the entire steering wheel. Generally, you have some of each. But dynamic balancing does fix static problems. Note too, that dynamic imbalance is more likely the wider you go with your wheels and tires.

Norm

 

Ok......now that explains why my steering wheel vibrates (combination of vertical and side to side shaking between 70-80mph) although not too bad yet. This started occuring as soon as I went with 16x7 wheels which is wider than the stock ones. On trucks, oversized tires with higher ply generally shows the same symptoms. Since you mentioned that static balancing will not correct dynamic imbalance which typically shows the symptoms above. What will? Years ago (I mean 7-8 years), I would end up getting a road force balance or high speed balance where they balance the wheel/tires while its mounted on the car. Is this the next best alternative?

 

I would first find a shop that has a Hunter 9700 Road Force Analyzer and ask them to road force the front wheels....that has cured 95% of all shakes and shimmys I've ever heard of...

Of course, the next step after that is indeed dynamic 'on car' balancing -but I have never needed to do that after a Road Force

 

Thanks Galo. I found this website to locate a 9700 balancer nearby. Just enter the city, state, & area code. Here it is:
http://209.176.154.132/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

 

Galo,

I went to a tire shop where a Nissan dealer nearby takes their cars for aftermarket wheels. I talked to one of the techs and he mentioned that they use these things called hub rings to keep aftermarket wheels centered on the car's hub. He pointed at how the center hub of my wheels are bigger than the actual hub on the car leaving a space which introduces dynamic imbalance to the wheels. He also mentioned that aftermarket wheel manufacturers can make these hub rings specific to a car's hub size, they charge $25 dollars per wheel. Ever heard of them?

-Dennis

 

Dennis....absolutely, these rings are absolutely a MUST for any aftermarket wheel...yes, if they are not on your wheels now, you definitely should install them.

Your hubs are 66.2mm in diameter, it's very likely your wheels are either 72 or 74mm....the centric rings fill in that gap to ensure the wheel is perfectly 'concentric' (hence their name) on the hub.

If you dont have them, I can almost ga-ron-tee that's the reason for your shake and shimmy.....you can spend all the $$$$ you want on roiad force analysis and all that and it's almost a certainty your car will continue to shake until u install these rings!

 

All tires have high points as well. No tire is truely round. New tires are marked with a dot to show where the high side is, and that dot should be mounted at the valve steam. If the tires are used and no longer have the dot on the tire, have them rotated 180 degrees on the rim.

Usually not mounting the high side of the tire in the correct place won't cause any issues, but if all else fails than that could be the problem.

 

Thanks.......I took my car back to the tire shop where I got the tires and had them rebalanced and put the front ones to the back. Most of the shimmies disappeared! My wheels are very old and I'm not going to have them very long but in the future, I will definitely make sure I get them with new aftermarket wheels. I have been buying aftermarket wheels for years and not one set came with those so I'm assuming that these hub rings are optional and usually don't come with a new set.

 

Well done!!! There are few things as unpleasant as a *&^%% shaking steering wheel so I'm glad I could help with that one........

I had one set of wheels (not on the Max) that were hub-centric without the use of the centric rings, meaning, they were application-specific wheels with hole = hub diameter but most the aftermarket wheels common to our Maxes (SSRs, Volks, Enkeis etc etc) are either 72mm or 74mm holes so yes, all of them will need a centric ring.

When I got my SSRs from Tire Rack, they did indeed ship with the centric rings and I dont remember if they charged extra for them but I think they did'nt, they just included them in the purchase price of the wheels -and I think most shops would do likewise because installing nice custom wheels without them would definitely be

 

I've never purchased anything from Tire Rack but based on what I've heard, these guys are top notch. I think I'll get my next set from them.

 

yep, TireRack included hubcentric rings for me at no charge. Best place to do business with.

 

hubcentric rings come with most wheels. its not that the shop is including them it's that the manufacturer is including them (thats why when you order your wheels they ask you what car they are going on, so they know the hubcentric ring size that you need).

 

what were your rings made of? plastic or metal? where can I get them?
Jae

 

Crap, Galo, reading through the previous posts in this thread, I was thinking you owned a tire store and I was going to hit you up for a good deal on new tires...

Thanks for all the info here, wow you really know your tire stuff. I just got picked up some wheels (Centerline RPMs) and I will definitely be getting the correct centric rings.

 

i had NTB balance my tires twice without luck. i will try Hunter 9700 Road Force Analyzer now. the will shake at 65+ pisses me off.

 

the road force analyser showed that one wheel that i recently replaced is BADLY damaged. normal force is 15-20, at 40-50 wheel needs to be replaced, i had 111, at which the force can rip the wheel out on the highway.