EXACTLY!!!!!!! Christ, is that so hard to understand???

 

i never knew they made rods and pistons for HC only, or turbo only... the only rods and pistons and the like i've seen are, forged aluminum, titanium, steel whatever, that handle so so amount of horsepower. with that being so, it seems like you can't really have internals for a specific engine when they are all the same.

 

Ok I know I said I was finished but there is more to building a motor than rods, pistons and crank...you have valve overlap (cam choice), rings, block treatment...etc.

forget it you will just not understand.

 

that's the main thing that i know is different in a n/a to turbo engine, the cams. there's not much stress put on those compared to the crank, rods, etc.

 

this lil argument not gonna go anywhere...i motion for a tread lock

 

not all...N/A and turbo cams in the USDM VG30E and USDM VG30ET are identical in spec and build.

 

i said that a long time ago... nothing happened

 

I'm not sure I follow you, but how did you think they make high comp motors...just by head shaving??

 

yeah, stock they are but when building an engine the n/a cams and turbo cams differ


what i meant on the above was, it was said the hc engines are built for high compression and turbo engines for boost but every internal part i've seen is always the same. they are all built the same minus cams and compression. the rods, cranks, pistons, etc. are all forged to handle high power in any engine.

 

still not necessarily true...many VG and VGT AFTERMARKET cam profiles use the same specs as well.

 

yeah, it just depends on which one you get.

Stock Z31 Cams 242/242 Turbo and non .385" They should be in your car!
European Z31 Cams 264/262 Turbo and non .392" Unknown
NISMO Z31 Cams 264/262 Turbo and non .392" About $400
Motorsport Auto VG30ET 262/256 Turbo car only .420" $169.95 Exchange only
Motorsport Auto VG30ET 270/262 Turbo car only .420" $169.95 Exchange only
Motorsport Auto VG30E 260/260 N/A car only .420" $169.95 Exchange only
Motorsport Auto VG30E 270/270 N/A car only .427" $169.95 Exchange only
Motorsport Auto VG30E 280/280 N/A car only .435" $169.95 Exchange only
ISKY (Iskendarian Cams) 262/258 Turbo and non .450" About $200 Exchange only
PAECO DSV-5800 Street 280/280 Ideal Turbo .328" $230 Each - $250/Core
PAECO DSV-6200 Strt/Strp 288/288 Turbo and non .360" $230 Each - $250/Core
PAECO DSV-6800 RACE 302/302 Turbo and non .373" $230 Each - $250/Core
Jim Wolf Technology (Turbo) Specs Proprietary Specs Proprietary About $450
Web Cams anything anything $100-400 depending

 

the cam overlap can make a big difference on compression and how a motor acts.

there is more to a cam than lift and duration.

 

yeah i know. what i am saying is the n/a engines act differently to cams than the turbo engine. if i remember correctly i think n/a engine usually prefer less overlap and turbo engines prefer more overlap but don't quote me on that.

 

have you heard of domed, dished, flattop or pistons??? thats 3 different types right there, what are you talking about...there isn't just one type/style of piston.

 

mtcookson, SHUT THE HELL UP! You have absolutely no CLUE what you're talking about and are spouting crap out of your **** to try and make up for the stupid comments you made earlier.


Since you know SO MUCH about engines, tell me this one..

assume you've got a 10.4:1 NA engine that puts out 300hp at 6000rpm.

now assume you've got an 8:1 Turbo engine that puts out 300hp at 6000rpm.

Which engine has to deal with more forces in the engine?
that's right, the correct answer is THEY'RE BOTH THE SAME! 300HP has to come from somewhere, and it's the force of the pistons pushing down on the crank! Since there's only six pistons in each engine and they're (nearly) the same size, it would make sense to assume that both engines are having to put up with the same forces on each piston. wooooooahhh.. neat stuff. push down on a piston and the crank turns. push down really hard and let go really fast and you'll wind up at 6000rpm.

The differences between the turbo and NA engine are mostly cooling. Certain parts of the turbo engine run quite a bit hotter (pistons and everything in the exhaust, down to the turbo or a little beyond.). the NA engine will have more heat in the heads themselves, but not a lot of difference in overall problems.

now the other part is cranks and bearings. again, the pistons run much hotter in the turbo car, so you have to take that into account.
the bearings in both take a beating, but in the NA car, the higher compression wears on them a bit more.. but the second the turbo starts making boost (which is about 2500rpm on a correctly tuned engine.... and PLEASE tell me that when you're trying to race someone that you'll experience turbo lag while the engine is under 2500rpm.. because it's NOT! when I'm racing, my engine is NEVER below 4000rpm.)


shall I go on, or have I made a few small points for you to ponder?

now please try to argue your way out of that statement.

 

Yes, they do have the same strain on them

true again!

and yet again, that is true... but i sure hope you aren't racing all of the time. street racing is bad and is prohibited to talk about on here. usually when driving on the street the rpms are pretty low so on a turbo car you aren't into the boost very much at all making less strain on your internals, whereas the high compression engine is putting quite a bit of strain on the interals even at low rpms which is what i've been trying to get at forever.

 

Hmmm, did I say ANYTHING about STREET racing? NO! I said RACING. I frequently autoX my car and run at the drags when I feel like it.
even when I'm driving around town, I usually don't run below 2000rpm. most of the time I'm running 2500-4500 rpm, right in the middle of the meat. why? because it's easier on the engine. it's a low enough rpm that the engine isn't trying to hold itself together, and it's a high enough rpm that the engine doesn't bog down when I need to get around a granny in traffic or merge on the highway.

and guess what else? My engine is still running great and it's got 190k on it. and the compression is 10:1. not very reliable at all, eh?

 

they also say that your peak gas mileage is at your peak torque because that is where it is most efficient.

on my vg engine it likes to sut nicely at 2000-2500 rpm. on the highway if i'm going fast enough (around 80 or so) i'll get it up to around the peak torque range which is 2800-3000 rpms. i'm not sure if the torque thing goes the same for a turbo engine or not since you would need to be providing more fuel to keep from knocking. i'll have to look into that.

 

260k here

 

in case anyone is coming in late and doesn't want to read the entire thread, here's a summary

that's about it so far

I made a little drawing to help represent the discussion
Jeff92se, DA-MAX, awsm66, Matt93SE -> <- mtcookson

 

Thanks, but I already read the entire thing

 

 

layeth thy smacketh downeth

 

You know we could start discussing DYANAMIC or EFFECTIVE compression or the fact that Honda makes their TypeR, GSR, S2000 motors with some serious compression. Boy, they must fall apart at 300 miles!!!!!!!!

But you know what, since mtcookieson, hasen't read THAT article, why bother?

 

when, in any of this bs of a thread did i EVER say i KNOW it's right? not once have i said that!! i read the article. the article made perfect sense, so i will believe it. do not shove words in my mouth that i never said. a
and when did i ever say high compression engines would last only 300 miles?? NEVER! all i have been saying from the beginning was high compression engines will be less reliable than a turbo engine [for street use] due to higher strain on the internals. i never said, high compression engines will only last so and so amount of miles because of the strain.

 

man this sounds like my fire department membership meetings... going in circles and not getting anyhere.

 

i don't understand what is so hard to understand about this simple concept.

 

Why to larger makers like Honda BMW and Nissan continue to offer high compression engines as a way of gaining higher hp if a turbo engine "in theory" last so much longer? Hmmmmmm??????

 

gas mileage and ride comfort for a couple reason.

 

Ah.. what? WHAT gets better gas mileage? NA cars or turbo cars? Because I know that a turbo 4 cylinder is gonna get better mileage than a na 6 or 8 cylinder rated at the same hp(if you stay off boost).

Ride confort?

 

the n/a cars get the better gas mileage and i'm pretty sure most people don't want to feel the kick of a turbo everyday they drive unless they are more of the sport car type.

 

You have some examples for me? And these are your MAIN reasons why Honda and Nissan wants to use high compression na motors vs turbo engines??? Really now.

 

it would really help if you could actually quote directly from this "article" you keep mentoining or actually identify it, but for some reason I don't see that happening...

 

and if the mag or where ever you read this article is reputable... they should have a website right? see if you can dig up that website and give us a link. that be more helpful

 

i would give you guys a link but like i said before, windows sucks. i lost a lot of data on my harddrive recently because my computer got hit or something and it ruined a ton of sectors on it. i managed to save most of my info (about 32 +/- gb) buti had to format everything on drive c (i have a partition so only system files are on c incase anything like this does happen most of my important documents and the such are on d). well, even though you tell windows to install everything on drive d it still puts very important information for running programs on drive c and also puts your favorites on drive c. i lost all of my favorite and can no longer provide you guys with the link until i find it on the internet.

 

But you still have the actual magazine right??? How hard is it to give us a name and an issue number??? And if for nothing else than to save your bum, why don't you search for said article???

 

When you need to boost your ego, come on the org and throw a flame at mtcookson.

 

 

My e-***** is bigger than all of yours.

 

this thread is getting wierder and wierder