93SE5speeder

All,
I posted about 4 months asking for info on VTC function/problems and got some very good feedback. I wanted to post back with a solution that has worked (at least so far) for me. At the time my 93 SE (w/207K miles) was just starting to develop the dredded VTC tick. I am the original owner and have used Valvoline pure synthetic 5W-30 since new (changing every 7K miles) and never had VTC issues up until then. The ticking would start (during idle conditions) after the car had been run for 7-10 minutes and then cease after 20+ minutes of runtime. The condition was getting progressively worse - ticking longer and louder - ouch!!! After getting info on the VTC function from some forum members (and moderators), I surmised that perhaps the VTC issue was tied to differental thermal expansion/heating rates for either 1) the spring in the VTC or 2) the solenoid valve.

Solution: I changed to a "heavier" 10W-30 motor oil (Valvoline pure synthetic again). The ticking stopped immediately and has stayed quiet for the last 3K miles - yeh!!!!

My guess it that the more viscous (under cold conditions) oil was less prone to leak past marginally worn solenoid valves which are closed and supposed to stop oil flow/ pressure to the VTC during idle conditions. The ticking was probably caused by partial oil pressure to VTCs during idle which compromised the spring's ability to keep the camshaft seated in the retarded timing position. My guess is that the spring would have worn out much more quickly if the condition was allowed to continue. Anyway that's my theory (and my story). I know this won't fix everyone's VTC problem, but I hope that others with similar marginal VTC issues/conditions might find this helpful.

Regards

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Probably the reason for less ticking is the thicker oil stays near the top of the motor longer. If you want to help the pressure stay up when the motor is off, longer... then get either the oil filter made for the VE30DE motor, or ... since it's discontinued, get the Toyota filter equivalent in the "Fluids and Lubricants" FAQ section. You'll see it.

Gjohnson

iTrader: (1)

OK, Aaron. Your ride is sitting really freakin low in that pic. Is that photo chopped, also that reminds me. I NEED CLEAR CORNERS!!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I have 2 words for you.... Air BAGS!!

hahah.. you know I'm messing. It's photochopped like no other photo has been photochopped before.

I'm just tired of people seeing my car and saying 4x4, so I make them happy by dropping it. SEVERAL people say that car looks SWEET that way. I personally think it looks like CACA. But it's funny.

Gjohnson

iTrader: (1)

I was either thinking bags or hydoros. Yea, I'm sportin the 4x4 look myself. But what can I say.

And yes, I personally wouldn't drop it that low. I wouldn't even be able to get out of my driveway.

jaguax

iTrader: (1)

Johnson your car especially looks high in that pic. I guess it's the angle of the photo or the wheels. You didn't raise it 2 inches by any chance right?

Gjohnson

iTrader: (1)

Oh, I see how it is.. I'm going to remember that jaguax. (I'm writing it down as we speak.)

No, I haven't done a 2 inch lift. I think it's the incline on my driveway that makes it sit like that. Too bad I can't do anything about it right now. I'm in the process of replacing the bose system, since my hu quit playing cds. (stupid error message.)

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

My car looks the same way stock with 17" Subzeros.



Yes, that is stock and without a lift kit. I got your back Gjohnson. Us lifted 3rd gens have to stick together.

Gjohnson

iTrader: (1)

That's what I'm talking about man!!!! Hmmmmmm......now if I could only run high 14's w/ my automatic.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

You can, if you really want to. I am willing to help ANY VE owners out there that wants to go fast on the drag strip. But not one person has listened to me yet.

For starters, do the "Go Fast" mods on my webpage. Don't bother with the list of mods that didn't work. I have many more mods of my sleeve that aren't on that list. But the ones on that list are exactly what I did to get high 14's. I have more mods now and I'm predicting 14.5s this winter without ECU upgrade, high stall TC, and slicks. But since I am in higher elevation, 14.8s are barely possible this winter.

JOCKSTER

Hey, First time here. I have a '93 SE lightly modified, bought new. I have the dreaded knock (sounds like a stuck lifter) I've spoken to other owners with same problem. I've also spoken to several mechanics who say no problem just a lifter. I don't know it sucks. I tried some high detergent additive with brief success. It's intermitent, and when happening sounds like a rabbit diesel.

Help ??

Gjohnson

iTrader: (1)

Do a seach for VTC's. That's most likely your problem.

Gjohnson

iTrader: (1)

Well, after officailly highjacking your thread, I wanted to respond to your post. I've been using synthetic 10w-30 myself. (Just because I'm use to grabbing 10w-30 off the shelf). And I don't have the dreaded tick either. When I first picked up my Max last Dec, it gave me a loud tick once or twice, but nothing since the switch.

93SE5speeder

Gjohnston,
Thanks for the reply (finally). Man that went OT in a hurry. Sounds like the more viscous oil (at the lower temperature rating) is working for you as well. Glad you're avoiding the dredded "tick" so far as well.

Aaron,
I believe you mis-read my post. I was not having a problem at start-up. The oil filter you mention has a robust anti-backflow valve that keeps the oil up in the galleries after engine shutdown - thus avoiding dry lifters and bearings at startup. FYI - I've been using a "Pure One" filter, which has a pretty good anti-backflow valve, with success. I have not a had a problem at startup after letting the car sit for 7-10 days at a time. The filter is cheap and readily available in my part of the country, Regarding the keeping the oil " near the top of the engine" - this would help the hydraulic lifters, not the VTCs. My issue was definitely with the VTCs.

Jockster,
I think it might be worth trying a 10W-30 weight oil if you're not already using it, or even going to a 15W-40 or straight 30W to see if you can eliminate the "tick" before you either 1) ground your solenoids or 2) spend serious $ on a VTC rebuild.

I think it might be interesting if someone with a well established VTC problem tried running straight 30W or 40W oil, or even 20W-50 oil on their next oil change to see if it made a difference. Anyway, regards.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

Okay I'll try 10W30 on my next oil change. Shoot I'm willing to try anything to stop that damn ticking until I tear the heads off.

Hey Aaron have you done the forced CAI setup yet? I've just ordered the really big K&N filter RU-2820 and I'm thinking what to do with it.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

You mean the Tupperware Ram Air idea? You do need to find a way to get on AIM.

Yes, I finished that Tupperware idea, but I threw it out the window when I realized I couldn't get enough air unless I did 100mph+. But when I cruised on the highway at 80mph in OD, my car was SICK fast. haha So I was getting more air pushed in the motor until I went WOT and then the motor wanted more air.

The only way that Tupperware would work would be to do 80mph+, and to have a HUGE snorkel hood scoop.

So, since I got rid of the Tupperware, my idea is to keep the regular WSP CAI and you make a ram air inlet that fits nice and neat underneath the front bumper. I've already made it and it looks very nice and clean. To install it, I just have to cut a neat hole in the splash guard.

That will be my normal street setup.

anaximander

iTrader: (1)

What about 10w30 as a preventive mean? I don't have VTC ticking though. Any repercussions if I switch from 5w30 to 10w30 now?

93SE5speeder

I don't think more viscous oil would do anything from a preventive standpoint for the VTCs. A little more viscous oil isn't going to affect the solenoids wearing - if thats the issue. The only result you might see is less gas mileage - mine dropped from an average of 27 MPG to 25 MPG with the switch from 5W-30 to 10W-30. Once they start ticking - my theory is that the 10w-30 will help if leakage past the solenoids is the issue - it won't help if the spring in the VTC is too weak.

Eric - please let everyone know if the change helps your situation. I probably won't be around this forum too much longer - seriously considering an Armada in a couple of months!!!

xenome

They say in all those FAQs that it doesn't last... well they're right. I shouldn't have wasted the $80 in parts and god awful amounts of hours taking my cams apart.

I'd say the tick silence lasted about 8k miles. I followed the TSB to the T.

If you're going to go through all the trouble of taking your cams apart, just buy the new VTCs... hate to admit it.

Great learning experience though.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

WOW! Very good info! I was thinking that I would just repair mine myself. And HOPE it fixes the problem. But now, I just need to bite the bullet and do the REAL job. Would you go halfa$$ on a tranny rebuild? Don't think so.

93SE5speeder

xenome,
Did you replace, or rebuild the solenoids when you rebuilt the VTCs? Would be helpful to know.
Thanks

JOCKSTER

I have gotten several suggestions on possible cures for the VTC tick.
Heavier oil, filter and of course a heafty expensive semi rebuild.

Questions:
Is it terminal ? I am not wealthy right now, will this just knock into eternity or one day go Blam !

Does anyone know of a good wrench in the L.A. area who knows this stuff. Several good mechanics have called it lifter knock, pronounced no harm no foul, obviously not the guys to go to for this.

Thanks

JE

RED BARON

One should know that bearing tolerances in the past 15 years have gotten smaller. Smaller, more powerfull engines can have smaller bearings and therefore smaller oil clearances. On high miliage engines the engine bearings clearances might need the thicker oil. But remember, most engine wear occurs at the start up. The best protection is make sure that oil gets up through the engine as quickly as possible. Thicker oils get to the critical areas much slower causing more wear to engine parts. 10W-30 is aobut the highest i would ever go even in hot climates.

xenome

I'm in the LA area, and I've done the rebuild before. Like everyone says, the rebuild doesn't last, so I think I'm going to do it again and buy the NEW parts (OUCH!). We might be able to work something out and have a VTC repair fest, I've got all the tools and books. I'll teach you how to do it for 2 new sprockets Which I believe is better then me just doing it for you =)

Let me know.

Maxima-4DSC

iTrader: (1)

wish i was in the la area id stop over and we couldto this together. mine need to be done also. we could have a vtc party, and some beers too !

JOCKSTER

Thanks ! But...HOW LONG HAVE I GOT DOC ? I mean I love this car (especially since I own it) but rebuilding..$800 in parts and it will tick again in 80K is scary. I'd rather fill it up with 10 cans of STP and sell it if I have to. Unfortunately my time is almost non existant for working on cars.