RMAX54

I just finished cleaning injector contracts & checking injector ohms on my VG back cyliner bank - got 38, 12, and 20 ohms (Cyl 1,3, &5). With 2 of 3 out of spec on the back ones , I really don't need to check the front set. SO it looks like I'll be going for a new set of 6 injectors soon - the 'color dot' on the injectors is not visible with them installed; so just replacing bad ones is not feasible without a lot of downtime - have to remove injectors to know whether to buy 'blue dot' or 'black dot'.

Refurbs from Directauto don't seem to be a good option - archives show lots of people got bad ones, one guy got 2 bad out of three. I had originally thought of having the set refurbed by RC Engineering if I could manage the downtime; but my understanding is that if resistance is out of spec, what they do won't help. Is this correct?.

I know Bosch and Borg Warner make new injectors that are less expensive than OEM Nissan ($105 ea from Courtesy Nissan). Commnents on these?

So what's the current consensus on alternates? Are the OEM Nissan ones worth the extra $$$ over Bosch or Borg Warner?

Thanks in advance for any help and comments. Randy H.

Thinkster

Well, here's what I've learned:
The higher the resistance is out of spec, the more chance of having problems (like intermittant). I first new Bosch for their Relays and they make a lot of elecromagnetic products which would include injectors. The injectors work on the same principal as their relays and solenoids: A coil of wire wound in a circular shape that when current passes through (12Volts) it creates a magnetic field that causes something to move wether it's contacts (on a relay) or a plunger (solenoid) or a valve (injector). The coil of wire they use is magnet wire that has a coat of thin insulation on it. If that heats up too much or corrosion sets in, it can either short or create a high resistance. In either case, it creates a problem. I just ordered (2) from Directauto, so I'm going to bench test them before just installing. Also, the OEM injectors are made by Bosch so it shouldn't make a difference if you buy them from Nissan or Bosch from somewhere else.

broncoguy

Thinkster's got it down pretty well, I think. If your resistance is out of spec, it's indicative of an imminent mechanical failure that cleaning won't help. If you can afford new ones, I'd go for it. I bought a reman one from direct auto a few months back, and it was fine, but there are plenty of folks here who would say otherwise.

RMAX54

When you bought the reman injector from Direct Auto, how did you know which one to buy? Or does Direct Auto not specify calibration by 'dot color' like Nissan does? Or did you dissassemble the injectors before you ordered?

I cleaned off all 3 back injectors; and using a dental mirror & Mag lights looked over every exposed part - no color dot anywhere; not on the harness, and not on the injectors. This is consistant with an old post where a member quoted Kaleb at Courtesy as saying that the color dot was not visible until you disassemble the injectors.

broncoguy

To be honest, I think I just lucked-out. I need my car for everyday driving, so I didn't dis-assemble until I had the new one in hand. I ordered a black dot, and that's what I had in the car. When I pulled the old one, there was a dot on the top of the housing where the connector plugs in. I could not see it until I pulled it, though.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Bosch IS OE and borg warner reboxes whomever and the only real manufacturer of these injectors is Bosch.
check out a-1injectors.com he has new ones on his site for I think $85 ea
tell bob I say hi!

Thinkster

When I ordered from Direct Auto, they had two part numbers for the same injector but didn't say anything about the blue or black dot. They told me to tell them the OE part # so they could cross it to one of the two. Also, on my original injectors, they had a blue dot on the plastic connector (visible when I pulled off the harness connector and removed the injector). It appears to be done with a marker as when I cleaned them with alcohol, the blue ink wiped off pretty much.
I had called my local nissan and they told me that it did not matter if it was blue dot or black dot as their part number is a replacement for either. The part number for my 91' Max was 1660021V02 and Courtesy Nissan was about $35 cheaper then my local Nissan.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

A few months ago, I ran across a post from Kaleb stating that it really doesn't matter what the dot color is, as long as you buy 6 new ones of whatever flavor.
that gets expensive, but you won't have to worry about it then.

broncoguy

So what I think I am hearing is that whether you get new ones from the dealer, or somewhere else, they will be Bosch. If that is true, then basically go for new ones at whatever the lowest price is. Right?

I heard the same as Matt- doesn't matter as long as you don't mix, but as he said, that gets expensive buying 6 at a time. Anyone know what the real difference is between the dots? Is it flow rate, impedance, or what??

RMAX54

It's flow rate - they 'match' the injectors within a certain percentage of flow. They probably come off the same assembly line, and are then sorted into the groups by tolerance.

Sounds like the only option is to buy all new set - or - tear down first to get the 'color dot' info to order replacements. Then I could refurb good ones (RC Engineering) and just order new replacements for the ones I know are bad.

I'm like you - my Max is my 'daily' driver; but I've got some backup transportation where I might be able to stand SOME downtime. Tough choice - the same old 'time or money' deal.

The interesting part is there's an Ebay seller (dr.injector) selling new bosch injector/o-ring sets of 6 that go for about $185 - unbelievably cheap vs $500 for a set of 6 new Bosch elsewhere like A1 Injectors. When I contacted him, he said I'd get Bosch p/n 62005 which matches up to 'blue dot' oem injectors for VG Maximas. Very Tempting; but sound too good to be true. Ebay Bosch injector set - closed Oct 3

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

as long as the guy is willing to back up the parts if they don't work, I don't see why buying the set would be that bad. personally, I would swap out all of them, Randy, simply because of the history your car has. they were funky a few months ago, then when you cleaned them, they ran fine for a while and a few started dying at once. leads me to believe, more problems are coming, and I'd swap them all out so you only have to do it once.

broncoguy

RMAX54- the injectors on that link don't look correct to me. Are you sure those are the right ones?

Thinkster

According to the link, they are Borg Warner/Airtex injectors and judging by the picture, they don't look right to me especially with the fuel hose on top and the plastic lower body. But if the seller does actually have original Bosch that he will sell outside ebay for that price, I would go for it.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

quoted from ad " Fits all 1975-84 L24E and L28E equipped "
Umm.. we have VGs and VEs not Ls the Ls were straight sixes in the G1 maxs. had one for a year knocked like hell and never used ANY oil

RMAX54

He sell's you the ones you need for your particular engine; or at least that's what he was offering to do in his reply after I e-mailed him. So the ones the the picture could be for any of the 280zx/300zx/Maxima injectors - or just a generic pic. The Bosch part number he gave me checks out against a Holley cross reference table given in a PDF (acrobat document) on their website for Bosch injectors - Holly injector catalog w/ cross ref PDF It's a very large PDF - about 14Mb.

broncoguy

Got it- should have known you'd checked it out...

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

What bosch # did he give you?

Just checked out the PDF and noticed one little thing.
THEY ARE REMANS.
Do you really wanna do the job twice?
do a search about reman injectors in this forum and you will see that there is a very high defect rate on the 89-92 VG reman injectors.
Please do yourself a favor andf don't go reman

RMAX54

The Bosch # he gave was p/n 62005 (also posted above). And Of Course the Holley catalog is of remanufactured injectors. I was only using it for the cross reference charts - NOT to buy them. Wanted means to verify the Bosch p/n for the NEW Ebay Bosch injector sets as correct for my 1990 VG.

From those Holley cross reference charts:

Step #1
OE p/n 62005 (Bosch)==> Holley reman injector p/n 68-920 ==> '89-92 Maxima

Step #2
Holley 68-920 p/n ==> OE p/n 16600-8500 = Nissan's p/n for the 1990 VG03E 'Blue Dot' injector.

Similarily, the Bosch OE p/n 62006 matches to Nissan's p/n for the 1990 VG30E 'Black Dot' injector.

I think Matt93SE is right - handwriting on the wall says I've got more injector trouble coming, even though it runs fine now except some missing at idle. So I'm very tempted to try a set 6 of the new Bosche injectors from the Ebay guy, though price is suspiciously low. - Just got to schedule the downtime with outside weather going downhill rapidly.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Matt is absolutlely right.
Do all 6 new ASAP and if you get them from this guy
2 things:
pay him by paypal
let us know what injectors he actually sends you

westsider101

i was just about to make an injector thread when i stumbled upon this one!
2 cylinders on my 89 VG max stopped working and my car started shaking and became undrivable.
and after almost 2 days on attemting to solve the issue (tried changing plugs, didnt help) so i gave up and took it to my mechanic to have him plug it to the comp!
he said i have 2 bad injectors, and the rest are acting real funny, so i need a complete 6 injector change!

i have 2 questions for ya'all:

1. is it simple to do?(could i do it myself with a little help from my dad??)
if yes then did any one document their swap and have a web page i can go to check out??


2. if im going to put so much money on injectors i would not mind adding a bit more to get the best performance ones!
where and which ones should i go with??

please if any one could help me im carless for 2 days now, going on 3!
i need to solve this issue quickly!

thanx!!!

RMAX54

I haven't done mine yet, but after all the research I can tell you it's not that bad a job - just time consuming. You've got to pull both upper and lower intake manifolds to get at them; so you need those gaskets plus the two for for the throttle body; and two differerent O-rings for each injector. You also need to clean out the intake manifolds & throttle body while you've got it apart. I'd recommend you get a FSM if you don't already have one before tackling the job.

No differences in injector performance as long as you get and entire set of good NEW injectors. You'll see from the posts above that there's been a lot of trouble with remanufactured ones.

Here's an extensive writeup on changin injectors done recently; it's for the VE engine (ours are the VG), but should be very similar. Just don't use the part numbers, they are different for the VG engine.

VE Injector How TO

There are externsive posts on cleaning up injector harness connections which you'll need to do also. Search this forum on 'injector connectors' and you'll get a lot of good extra info.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

unless you plan on doing alot of modding the stock injectors should hold up fine. I think someone previously posted that they're good to 220hp.
Just be sure to get NEW not reman injectors on your car.
try www.a-1injectors.com they have new ones for i think $85 ea. Just tell bob I say hi when you do

RMAX54

UPDATE: So much for the cheap Bosch Ebay injectors. E-mailed the guy today to try to buy the set of Bosch 62005 for what his auctions had been closing for ($182.50) ; and he backed up to a price of $93.50 each for the Bosch which he claims is whosale (Note this is higher than A1 Injector's price). He claimed the auction injectors "early nissan injectors were factory overrun". I didn't bother to ask why he was offering me the Bosch 62005 on the 'early nissan injector overruns' auctions 3 weeks ago if that's the case. Maybe he had them then and ran out - who knows.

Oh, well - back to the $500 new injector sets, probably from A-1 injector + another $120 or so in gaskets & o-rings. It will have to wait for spring now; need to scape up more cash + sqeezing in the time for the outdoor installation would have been tough before the weather gets too bad here. I've got other projects on my Max to finish before then and I'm not that flexible on downtime - need the car for my computer business. It's not all that terribly urgent anyhow, my Max still runs strong off-idle; I was just going to 'strike while the iron was hot' if I got a deal.

For you VE guys, there's a used set on Ebay right now from a guy that's parting out his car. Set of includes injectors w/50K miles on them with both injector harnesses and fuel rails; and he claims they are all working great. The auction closes in 3 days, and is at the starting bid of $25 now (but they won't close that low). Here it is:

VE30DE Injector set w/rails & harnesses

Too bad I can't use them on my VG.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Sorry to hear that he did ya like that. Ain't nice when people pull that ****.
BTW 93.50 I think is about Jobber (wholesale) on the bosch ones so that may be true. but I know bob from www.a-1injectors.com picked up a deal on some a while back so as you say 'strike while the iron was hot'

Thinkster

Well, I sent four of mine to RC Engineering to be serviced and they came back with a report showing the stats before and after. They appear to be a lot better after. And the other two I ordered remans. from DirectAuto. The gaskets & O-rings shouldn't cost you $120. In fact at my local Nissan, I got all the gaskets (like 6 or 7) for under $20. The O-Rings shouldn't run that much either.
Well, I'll post how everything came out when I finish the job today or tommorow. Wish me luck!

euphoria

Hi,

I have a VG too and I need to know the resistance values of those
injectors with them installed. Could you tell me how to do that? There
aren't any naked wire that I can put my multimeter needles on...

Thanks a lot.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Resistance is 12-14ohms (do a search it's there)
and you measure it at the injector with the harness unplugged

broncoguy

As far as the gaskets go, I got a set for my VG from Autozone a while back, and it was like $40 for upper and lower intake, plus a metal one for underneath the lower intake, I think. I didn't go as far as to change that one. That's all I used. Also, not sure if this is true for new ones, but the reman injector I bought from direct included the o-rings. New ones from the dealer don't, but new ones from 3rd party might. Nissan rapes you for those, IMO.

Thinkster

On mine, the rubber boot above the connector was hard and cracked, so I was able to get my meter probes in there. However, you can not get an accurate measurement In Circuit. The connectors must be pulled off and you measure the resistance on terminals of the injector itself. Also, on the injector terminals, you may need to file or scrape the corrosion off first to get an accurate reading as corrosion often creates a high resistance.

euphoria

I thought the harness can't be unplugged without air intake removed.
Anyway... I tested the resistance of 5 out of 6 injectors (the front
leftmost one is hard to reach), four are 11.4, one on the back bank
is 51 - 65, different in a couple of cold starts.

I think I am going to change this bad one. How about the other 11.4
ones? Do you guys think I need to change them too? Brand new
ones are darn expansive if I buy 6. But to change only one, I don't
know what kind of dot it has.

euphoria

FYI, I checked Haynes manual and it says resistance from 10 - 14 is normal. So maybe I just need a brand new one. I can bear some down time, so maybe I will pull it out next week, find out the dot color and then order a new one.

Do I always to replace gaskets and O-rings? Can I find them in any local store like pepboys or dealer?

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

injectors should come with o'rings depends on whose they are mostly.
The gaskets should be readily available at any parts store. but I suggest checking to see if the dealer sells the upper intake set seperately.

Thinkster

I don't think the connectors can easily be removed either without pulling the intake manifold off. Each of the connectors has a wire clip that you have to remove (I used a small flathead screwdriver to do this). As far as one being 51-65 Ohms, that is out-of-spec and can intermittantly fail if it hasn't already. 11.4 ohms sounds o.k. mine averaged 12.4. Since I had one injector that had failed and another one out-of-spec (23.8 ohms) I replaced those two with refurb'd ones and my other four I sent out for servicing. Ended up coming out to like $170 for replacing the two bad one's and servicing the others.

RMAX54

You can get the connectors off OK without removing the manifold - you just have to be very careful not to drop those injector clips down in the engine. I used a jeweler's screwdriver to pry them out, but not all the way - just enough to 'unlock' the injector. The clip still stays on the connector if you do it right. I lost one of those infernal clips though before I developed the technique - but made a new one without problems. A small wire paper clips is about the right wire size. I posted a picture of the clip with dimensions in this thread:

Need injector advise

euphoria

I worked on this beast. I got a few problems:

1. I can't remove either IAC/air cut valve assembly(the silver metal on the upper left corner), or EGR valve and flare tube (the red metal
one down there). Looks like I don't have to remove the air cut valve
assembly, but I do have to remove the flare tube. There are two big
bolts connecting it to the upper intake manifold. Could anyone tell me
how to do this? (maybe I need to buy some lubricant to loose the
bolts ?)

(click below to see picture)
http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/users/zqin/ho...e_manifold.jpg

2. For VG engine, which is the one I have, I have to remove lower
intake manifold to reach the injectors? Is that correct? I was able
to move the upper part around a little bit (I even smelled the gas),
but the injectors are still under the lower part. How did you guys
do that without removing the lower instake manifold? I referred to
the Haynes manual and it said I only need to remove the upper part.

broncoguy

Technically, the "upper part" consists of 2 pieces. The one that has the 3000 V6 on it, and then the piece right under that one. There is one other piece below those 2, but that doesn't have to be removed to get to the injectors. That is what they are referring to when they say the lower intake doesn't have to come out.