Vadim-93GXE

I have a remote start, and when it's really cold I start the car from my window so it can warm up. Right before it starts, it makes sad cranking noises like it's having trouble for about 10 seconds. Sometimes I have to do it twice because it just gives up after all the cranking, and on the second try when it starts up it looks very hesitant to stay on for a few seconds with very low revs(500-700) almost as if its about to shut off. But when I do it manually with the key, it has a quik strong crank and fires right up no problem with steady revs. I was just wondering if this is no good for the car to have it cranking that long? Doesn't sound good to me. Thank you.

LvR

You not making sense here.................

The starter and engine knows squat about the difference between a key and remote starter - if any such thing as you describe is evident, there must surely be a wiring/connector stuff-up somewhere with the remote start unit.

Wiking

...or radio connection on/off/on/off causing remote to act wobbly... bad batt, Ice on the home window?

Or maybe that GXE actually has a true feelings computer... and one must not forget the squirrel effect.

Vadim-93GXE

Did I mention it starts up just fine with the remote when the car has been started recently? I only have that long crank when it's been off for a long time on a cold day. But with the key, it's always a good crank. Maybe your right, yes. Something with connection. And the battery is quite old. Who knows.. That really isn't my concern though. I just want to know if it's bad for the engine to be cranked for so long.

Hehehehe. You sure got that right. All our cars come standard with the "true feelings computer"

Vadim-93GXE

Probably something is up with the wiring for the remote system. But I would have to disagree with you on "The starter and engine knows squat about the difference between a key and remote starter" because when you use the key you go directly to the ignition, but with the remote start it goes through something else first. Doesn't matter though. So do you think it's okay to have the engine crank for a good 10 seconds before a hesitant start? Thanks.

Wiking

Cranking does not kill any engine. Five minutes straight might start to hurt the starter and/or battery.

edit:
generally, hard starting -one case: minute/halfminute starting, same amount off. Continue this max for ten minutes, if no hlp, start repairing OR in cold case, heating batt& engine bay...

Another issue is fuel which is sprayed all the time and gets to cat. If this is continued habit for years, might ? clog the cat with soot, bleach the cat.

"Radiology": I have a aftermarket ["original"] remote radio keylock. When windows are ice covered, reception is significantly worse... Also your position - if few centimeters THAT way, causes no reception.

LvR

No I definitely dont.

But as things stand now, I would first sort the difference in behaviour between the key and remote starter unit................
as I said before

Vadim-93GXE

You think something is being damaged each time I do it?

Wiking

Engine wears down with each revolution. After 10 trillion revolutions, it will break down. Now ten sec takes counts that down by scary 100.

Be scared, heaven will fall down on u. If not, scientist will prove u it will...

Wiking

Starting engine always from freezing conditions is the thing that wears your engine, and he rEALLY does not how it was done... Install electric engine and cabin heating & timer; that will save u in gas and u engine lasts lots longer...

LvR

Wiking

I seem to miss a post or am not getting the full meaning of your last post there ......................

I am simply saying that if you can turn the key and the motor starts immediately( as the original post would imply) under the same conditions, yet the remote start cannot achieve the same, then there must obviously be something wrong with something involved in the remote start feature - no?

The real problem is the difference in behaviour between the 2 starting circuits and NOT the long cranking time with the remote - the long cranking time is a result of the real problem, and cannot possibly have a solution on its own as long as the key start procedure manages to start it immediately and have the engine run properly.

Wiking

Yes, I do agree, absolutely. Problem exists with his remote system, between his key button to the car connected wire...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[isnt this language issue funny: we agree and speak using different words of tha same issue - and almost disagree... Being on other continents, using sligtly different vocabularly adds to this. And add there my typos... turns around all meanings. I should be more care fuLL.]

- Another issue was that Vadim was afraid of 10sec start time[was he?]. That does not kill engine, although points to a problem [or -40] in typical maxima.

- Third issue is that if this coldstart is life habit, it would be better to have electric heater. 99% cars here have them...

Vadim-93GXE

Yes, the 10 sec start time was the main issue I was worried about. I just wanted to know if it's okay to let it crank that long. Thought maybe something was being damaged. The problem with the remote starter itself is a different issue that Im far from at the moment.

Wiking, about the language thing.. Hehehe, it is interesting. Your probably typing with proper grammer but it comes out with mistakes all over. Same coming from me to you. Sorry, again Im havin a bit of trouble understanding this part - "That does not kill engine, although points to a problem [or -40] in typical maxima." What do you mean by -40? What kind of problem does it point to in a typical Maxima? Thanks.

By the way, the thing with the electric heater.. 99% of cars have them? I don't think I ever heard of anything like this here in my country. Do you have one on your website? You have alot of amazing features and ideas on your car to protect from the cold. Very interesting. It's too bad I have trouble understand because of the language issue.

Wiking

Maybe I stuff too much in a sentence... 10 sec cranking, or five minute cranking does not kill the engine mechanically.

The CAT does not like of fuel [which is pumped all the time during cranking].

Long cranking is indication of a problem in maxima. In some cars, its a feature... Freezing temp like -40 causes long cranking.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Saving fuel via heater:



My car belongs to those 1% that have not the heater. Here it is NOT a feature, its installed in all cars. Dunno why my car does not have it... Anyways, now my car sits always in carage, so I have not yet installed it. Most heater wiring parts still sit an wait on the shelf...



See the pic for coolant heater. The BLUE line is when u start and go with a cold engine. First kilometer consumption is 29Liters per 100km = 10mpg. With cold maxima that could be like 5mpg for the first mile...

RED -line is the electrically heated engine. [do not care about the text, just compare the two: cold/heated consumption lines.]



One heater properties attached to the oil pan:




We have a law that prohibits idle longer than 2minutes. [promised land of DONT!!]. The time lenght of that is not wise... Also long idle soots u engine.

All parking lots in scandinavia are full of those short poles with electric outlets for car heating, 'every' car is [owner pays], hooked during winter... Actually its an 'industry'. Typically they have timer, ON few times a day.

Most job providers give the same treatment [parking lot with a pole] for employers cars... Many companies do charge of it, better ones do not.

Next add on post will have some pics from one DEFA product maker....

.

Wiking

...cont. [contained too many pics for .org]

Timer for the heater; in the cabin


Many types of electric wall outlet, coolant heaters 500-1500W; installed into engine block


Cabin heaters 600-2000W


Connected to car from 240VAC electric pole outlet


I suppose this is a finnish producer. This web site language possibilities tells about their markets... http://www.kaha.fi/cgi-bin/product/view.pl?pid=20


The heater core is about 60$. Whole set with all wirings, timer and cabin heater goes maybe about 250$, depending an what u buy. They have a nice price cartel... like everything in here. Btw. Voltage is 22-240VAC.

Vadim-93GXE

Very interesting. I didn't even know something like this exists. It must be a very important tool in your country since it's so cold. Thank you for all the referances you collected for me.

So how cold does it actually get over there? Swedin correct?

I also have a question about what you meant when you said "The CAT does not like of fuel [which is pumped all the time during cranking]." What is a CAT? Thanks.

Wiking

Cat is the tingie killing mice... noo catalysator. Its internals surface is damaged by fuel. Havent we got great car engineering...?

The winter in Scandinavia is like in Canada, not so much snow. But gas cost [Everythin is socialism: taxes taxes taxes...] is triple u pay. There is your personal interest to save every droplet.

Now we got this kyoto -treason: all electricity will be x2.

look at www.junkscience.com Ah we have so clean air now, taxes do clean the air! Thank u bribed scientists.
.

Vadim-93GXE

Walt, quick question... You said "Also long idle soots u engine". What means "soot"? Thank you.

Wiking

Maybe not the right word on that...

Idle is never the optimal way to burn fuel from engine gas exchange point of view. All the non burned carbon micro particles have too much space&time to settle on surfaces, cake in. They love to stick on...

So driving ultra carefully like some do, and/or long idle times build carbon deposits which will degrade performance and even cause damage to engine.

Most dangerous for engine is the instance when some fresh digital on/off gasfoot guy then one day buys such granpa -engine. All those particles start flying. As revved engine parts will drive further, they hit the deposit edges or physically worn edges - breaking things...

At work a friend loaned his car to another to go quick for shoppin. On the highway 2miles away, engine blew. Who knows what is the reason, but I suspect smtg like this: the loan giver never pushed his pedal, the loaner drove as he always has used to. Oh boy, what a nuisance argument that good willed deed became; who should pay? Btw. Dont ask my car for loan...

Vadim-93GXE

Wow... I had no idea. So what your saying is that if I drive my car slow(carefully) I am building up carbon inside and it will eventually backfire when I choose to put the pedal to the metal? Shi*, so it's like a no-win situation with automobiles. Either way, they are dying slowly. I use to race all the time, but recently stopped to avoid repairs. "Living life in the fast lane is expensive" so I tend to do the speed limit and accelerate very smoothly at lights. Basically being very easy on the gas and brakes. But when a challenge from lets say, a friend arrives, I do a quick run with him. So over time if I keep doing this, my engine is probably a gonner?

Wiking

Yes. Police taught also me to stop racing all the time. Still have not learned...

Gas & policeman is expensive. Engines are built to be used. Acceleration does not kill engine, and with 3/4 gaspedal down its is even cheaper [gas consumption] than too slow... Then drive steady = with the auto lock on.

Race all the time is quite a contrast to some who do not ever go over 2000rpm. Tires will wear surely from hot drive.

There's seafoam to clean the engine. It used to be: give water for it at 3000rpm to clean, and do race time to time.

To save gas, drive like you had no brakes at all.

Michael

iTrader: (21)

Here is something to think about. I have not read this thread because I dont feel like it but...

The Maxima uses 2 starter wires. One of those wires is sometimes called the "cold start" wire. When I hooked up my remote start I left this wire off just for the heck of it and the car started BUT it did just like you were talking about...kinda stumbled and the RPM was low etc. It seemed to do just fine when it was warm out or the car had run for a little while but if it was cold it struggled. I Hooked up the second wire and it would fire right up just like using the key no matter how cold it was.

Maybe when they hooked it up they didnt use a relay and hook the second wire up.

check into that since it only happens with the remote start. That is the only thing I can think of.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

Thats probably what it is, your installer screwed up.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Relay? **** that! Jumper wire baby

Michael

iTrader: (21)

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

it worked for me

Vadim-93GXE

Yeah. Thats probably it, thanks. My "original" FSM came in today, and once it gets warmer, Im gonna inspect the car very thoroughly.

Wiking

Now this sounds magic. How does this wire translate to life without remote? Does it mean somewhere is hanging a loose wire that would somehow help cold start to palm beach? Cannot believe that.

If remote starter attachs to start wire, the car cannot and will not know who or how it is started.

- There is one wire to starter; starter does not know of weather or who is giving it the power, me, u, neigbours battery...
- There is one wire to starter from ECU pin 43; ECU does not know of weather or who is giving it the ign on signal, me, u, neigbours battery OR remote...

OR does it? Then ECU must have an input other than ign key to "mentally" separate from remote start of ign key startup and adjusts rpm, injection or what??? ... or does THE remote adjust ign timing and injection to change engine from stuttering to plam tree -mode.

Why ECU limits this palm tree mode only for remote if its so good? Why does it not give same rights [nice smooth cold idle] to me?



This wire u tell, must have dedicated connectors & pins where it attachs. What are those at ECU and if this attacha elsewhere, where it is?








.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

the ignition SWITCH not the ECU has the 2 start wires.
1 most probably triggers the starter motor and the other the ECU.
you do need them both triggered in order to start the car.

Wiking

That is so. Still:

There cannot be any magic wire: either something gives ign ON signal to ECU, or not. If not, the engine will ? not sputter or stutter for one sec, not to speak of the ten minutes mentioned. (Really: I have not tested this, but what on earth there would be such signal if it was not used?)

Remote has to work like this:
1. theft system is bypassed
2. ign ON -is given to ECU
3. Starter is given batt, starts to rotate engine [inhibitor relay bypassed]
4. Some ECU signal is checked to verify engine running condition
5. Starter signal is zeroed, starter stops
6. ign ON -is still given and kept to ECU

Now engine either runs, or does not. No difference who/what is the initiator. Cannot imagine how car will ever sputter if ign ON signal is missing... But then, my imagination is limi ted.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

on the max, the factory anti-theft doesn't have to be bypassed.
both starter wires have to be energized in order to start, otherwise it does sputter (believe me I tryed to find shortcuts when installing mine)
ECU isn't checked to verify running condition, either tach signal or electrical system voltage.

Wiking

Two wires does not fit in the schematics: one wire fron ign.

But if it by nature hangs like that, hmmmm. Where does the second go, Kongo? And bird electrons do the stutter-work. But ok, I believe if u insist that then it tics, forget the schema ...

I bet I would not hold document job too long at nissan... Maybe their factory culture is like koreans: they cannot send group e-mail because the send to -list most probabaly contains people from different "levels". And addressing group like that would be an unforgivable cardinal sin.

Michael

iTrader: (21)

No one said anything about magic.

I am not talking about the ign wire or ANY wire that goes to the ECU. I am talking about the 2 wires that go to the starter system.

What I said in my previous post is not me just making something up off the top of my head it is ACTUAL factual knowledge from hooking up the remote start in my Maxima and playing with having only one wire hooked up.

Yes my car started with the one wire hooked up...and yes it was a hard start just like was described by the original poster.

Yes I hooked the second wire up and it started up like it should.

THIS IS FACT...NOT MAGIC.

Study this wiring diagram and then you will see that there are in fact 2 "starter" wires and you will realize what I am talking about.

Now why was it hard to start with only one wire hooked up (or why it would start at all) I dont remember but do know for a FACT what I tell you is the truth. I worked it out with this and another diagram and it made sense at the time. I dont feel like going through all that again so you can study it yourself and see.

One thing I will tell you that the wiring diagram doesnt show is that I put a power wire while starting on the lg/w wire at the clutch interlock switch.

Read this

and

Study this

Michael

iTrader: (21)

what schematic are you looking at. Look at my schematic I posted above and you will see.

If you look at the upper left box it shows that wire 4 & 5 (w/g & g/r) are active while starting.

Wiking

Real Thanks for the Data. Now its easy - forget my chiliton.

FIRST ASSUMPTION: This whole stutter problem is limited to starter, NOT engine idle. (quite a limitation).

I can figure out THERE IS some kind problem 'around' interlock relay: bad contacts somewhere down the line and/or bad theft system stuttering with interlock relay.

There is ONLY ONE wire going TO STARTER from ign switch... the other one goes to theft warning & other bypasses.

Still what u say is TRUE of ign key wire qty:
- 4 goes to starter.
- 5 is used to cutoff wire4 by theft alarm etc, exactly as I said.


Summa summarum:
IF 4 is at +12V, [and interlock relay closed] regardless what/who gets the pin 4 up ---> starter races full rpm turn until the end of battery...

IF the remote starter is connected to interlock B/R (=starter wire) and alarm is bypassed, everything will work. Just like I said; no difference if remote or ghost is starting the engine with/without key.

IF remote is connected to 4 & 5 without a diode, shorting these two, then all security is destroyed.

Bypassing security devices is a real hazard, should not be done.

Michael

iTrader: (21)

well all I can tell you is that what I said about the hard cranking is fact. I experienced it. If you dont want to except that then thats fine with me. All I can do is go by my experience.


There is no hazard with the way my system is hooked up. It will not start if the car is in gear period. The car has to be in N for it to start. The only feature bypassed is the clutch switch but since the car has to be in N to start then it doesnt matter if its bypassed or not.

I did not connect 4&5 together. I used the one cranking wire offered by the alarm/remote start system and connected it to a relay which would energize both wires while cranking. It also has its own antitheft/antigrind relay you have to hook into it to keep you from being able to steal it or turn the key all the way and grind it while its already cranked. The alarm/remote start unit has all the safety features you need...you just have to hook them up correctly.

Wiking

I dont question your experience, never have. [I questioned magic wires, thats true. now 'all is clear' from problem solution point of view]. Somewhere down the line there IS a problem as others seem to have the same experience also. Maybe the alarm system which [with wire 5 high] becomes bypassed just as I told it should.

And as such, all info given has been good for all readers. As this thread started, the initial problem was depicted world wider: all possible idle problems... Cutting the problem to starter ---> veeery simplex like door solenoid.

I dont question your hookup as how its detailed. And besides, one can do whatever he likes with his own. But still the statements I made of 4/5 short is true: theft system becomes ½ paralyzed.

Totally agree: "...you just have to hook them up correctly." For example ONE WIRE interlock B/R (=starter wire direct).

Have a nice night!

Btw. Still thanks how u detailed the problem, I think readers like it very much.

Michael

iTrader: (21)

Yeah I see what you mean about the factory theft system being paralyzed but since I just unhooked the factory alarm I dont see that as a problem for me. The Alarm/remote start system I put in is much better than the factory alarm so I dont have a problem with defeating the factory alarm.

The new alarm has its own deterent system (the starter kill I mentioned, shock, door, trunk and hood sensors etc.).

I value your opinions because you are very knowledgable and I especially like how thourough you are...Its just that sometimes I loose a little in the translation and have a hard time understanding just exactly what you mean (hence the reason I thought you didnt accept my experiences).

Wiking

I say the same: I value your opinions because you are very knowledgable and I especially like how thourough you are.. the schema with your references to pins clarified our different viewpoints: the facts remain facts from both viewpoints. Life is funny.

Me is a weird creature with tinhat horns and all: me interested in troubleshooting cars on the other side of the globe??? I would call that insane. Cannot understand me myself without translation, no wonder others dont...>>> ...stuttering slaughters (without s). Luckily I did not make myself but my Creator.

Well, I have my own horse in the ditch also: I like shooting trouble, and my maxima will need this info on a future day x.

Have a nice morning!

bvtran

iTrader: (3)

sounds like weak worned out spark plugs /or cables to me but also make sure you checked your battery for ~12-14v and your starter is working fine. sometime when it gets to damn cold, the starter fluilds gets all frozen so it stucks. you could easily take it apart and grease it with Amsoil series 2000 syn greases and that will take care of it for years.