bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Note: This issue ONLY applies to the VE30DE engine on the 92 to 94 SE models, and is regarding the "ticking" sound reported by many owners. Although this issue has apparently been addressed and fixed by Nissan for the 94 model year, it remains an issue.

Jeff92se recommends using the a Toyota filter, cross referenced for the VE30DE engine. Nissan made a special filter for the VE engine, but Jeff's communication with a mechanic has yielded this Toyota filter per his recommendation:

This should be $4 or $5 at a local Toyota dealer, or you can order it online from Toyota-Parts.com at the link below:

http://www.toyota-parts.com/page5a.a...ber=90915YZZA2

Courtesy of Jeff92se, and linked from Maximamike's website as well:

http://www.geocities.com/maximamike/nvcs-bible.html

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Well I'll comment on this situation again. I'll try to be as complete as possible so this is gonna be long! The following comments are my opinion only based on past experience and hands on work. Following the information below is at the reader's discretion and I take no responsiblity for your actions.

Let's start w/ the function of the VTC assemblies. These assemblies are mounted on the intake cam. So there are two total. At a certain rpm/load, the VTC solenoid is de-activated and oil stops flowing to the assembly. This allows the intake cam to rotate and advance up to about 8-9 degrees. This helps high rpm hp and torque.

Now because these assemblies are hydraulicly operated(engine oil pressure) this is where the problem begins. The VTC assemblies are very high up on the heads(see sig pic for reference) This means during start-up these assemblies are probably the one of the last things to get oil. Along with this, the oil gallies leading up from the oil pan are fairly small. So any clogging of these gallies from sludge will only slow the time and quantity of oil that these assemblies receive.

Indications of VTC failure. Usually you will hear a *tick* when the car is cold(like a loose valve tick) and it will go away after a few seconds. When they start to get worse you will hear the tick when the car is warm and you must *lug* the engine is low gear to get rid of the tick. Finally the damn things will tick all the time! I think what's happening is that the springs inside the assemblies slowly start to get weak when they don't get enough oil.

Preventative maintainance. The best thing you can do to prevent VTC failure is to CHANGE YOUR OIL REGULARLY. Remember sludge is the enemy here. Also using a oil filter that has the proper anti-drain back valve is also important. This keeps the oil pressure up as much as possible when the engine is turned off. This gets oil to the upper heads as fast as possible durning start up. Nissan oil filters are recommended and Nissan choose to use a special filter for the 92-94 SEs. Not the standard "blue" Nissan filter. Also consider switching to synthetics if possible.

Now if you already have the dreaded failure and you can no longer stand the *tick* sound, you gotta have them fixed. (Note: some have used the method of grounding the solenoids but I have no experience with this) There are two options for fixing the VTC assemblies. Either way you have to either take them off yourself or have a mechanic do it. You can have one or both VTCs rebuilt. The kit only costs about $40. But you must have access to a 2k press in order to take them apart and you MUST mark everything before taking them apart. One mistake and the VTC will live to click again! The track record for rebuild VTCs lasting is not that great. The second option is to have new VTC assemblies installed. Be forewarned, these assemblies run about $400 each! Not cheap! There are two Nissan Technical Service Bulletins that deal with the proper installation of these items. And they should be followed if you want these new assemblies to last. They deal with making sure the oil gallies are clean. If not, even the new ones will fail again. Warning! Even if you get these done at Nissan, that is not guarantee that they will follow the TSB! Some Nissan techs are lazy-asses! If you have Nissan do the repair, make sure they are aware of the TSB and make sure you they follow it!

Cost for the VTC repair by a Nissan mechanic w/ new assemblies will run about $1600 or $2000 for both sides.

Is the VTC repair a DIY job? Well yes and no. Yes if you are fairly experienced with auto mechanics. If not, forget it. There are too many things to screw up for the amatuer to attempt. If you can do a 5-sp clutch job yourself, then you could probably do this also.
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In addition, Craig B has an excellent write-up on grounding the VTCs rather than re-building them:

http://www.geocities.com/bracecraig/maxima/vtc/vtc.html

CandiMan

iTrader: (1)

I'm aware of all the issues related to VTC, one thing I'm not too sure on "Can the VTC be removed with pulling the head?" 1600-2000 at the dealer is alot, is it because it involves labor for removing the heads? If you disconnect the harness from both solenoids under the hood can they just be screwed out and is this what rebuildable?

Czar

No they don't remove the head. First of all the parts to replace 2 bad sprockets retail around $700(or $60 if you rebuild). Second the operation is labor intensive because of the tight clearance right around the pulley end of the engine, and they have to remove the intake manifold to access the rear bank. It involves removing the two top timing chains, taking the intake cam sprocket(s) off and if they repair rather than replace they have to take apart the sprocket carefully and replace the spring and put it back together. Then it all goes back on the engine. Probably a good 8-10 hours shop time to redo both sides.

amax935

a great description! i was advised to use only 5w30 oil, to keep it as thin as possible at start up. also even with synthetics change the oil every 3,000 miles (in the VE). even though the lubricating qualities are not yet effected, the accumulating impurities can speed up clogging of the oil gallies

FitzMax

Wait now, I am confused here. I have read here in this forum that switching to synthetics in higher mileage cars is not recommended and to stick with standard oil. I have a 92 SE with a VTC problem starting up. My mechanic recommended switching to a better lubricating oil plus an additive to help with lubrication. My car also has 144,000 miles on it. Which is better, synthetic or standard oil for cars with the VTC problem?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

No. IMHO keeping the oil sludge free is very important. But I think your methods of accomplishing this are not the result of good research.

For dino oil, regular oil changes are necessary. 3,000 miles is probably too soon. 5,000 miles is probably okay.

For synthetics, 3,000 miles is WAY too soon. Even w/ Mobil 1, Shing has proven by analysis, that the oil is fine even at 7,500 miles. I have about 40,000 miles on my VTC work and have never changed the oil at 3,000 miles. But I have used Amsoil though. The only reason I don't go much longer on Amsoil is that the tests on my oil have turned up some concerns that need further investigation before I do so. Even then, the tests show the oil was still good.

Czar

hmmm... is there any thing BAD by changing at 3K with sythetics? I put Mobil 1 5w/30 in my car every 3K but I justify it by the fact that I drive my car EXTREMELY hard and usually by 3K the oil is getting a little dirty. Also isn't it good to change the oil more often when you have a turbo?? The only thing I could think of is that it may be hard on the engine when you first start it w/o oil above the filter(yes I fill my filter before installing it......)

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Sam, you know it's dangerous to live so close to me :urge to throttle:

1) no it's not bad but unnecessary. It's like changing your tires when they are only 1/3 worn.
2) There is no way you can tell the condition of the oil just by looking at it. If you can, you should start charging $20 a pop to do oil analysis for everyone.
3)Yes even Amsoil recommends more frequent oil changes when a turbo is involved. Much higher temperatures and stresses.
4) Also if you don't have a filter w/ the proper anti-drain back valve, then at every start-up, it takes longer for the oil to reach the heads(ie... VTC assemblies)

Go look around at Bill's sig and take a look at some of his links regarding synthetics vs dino / oil changes / filters / etc..

«§»Craig B«§»

iTrader: (5)

I posted this before, but it disappeared

in his "article", Jeff mentions the mehtod of grounding/disabling the VTCs
The how-to for this is on my page
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte671n/mymax.html

this method was shown and recommended to me by a local mechanic in my area (Duluth, GA) who had worked at Nissan for many years before. Check the page for more info

Spaz

For those of you that are _thinking_ that you have bad VTCs you might not. I learned firsthand that it might be (atleast I was) exhaust manifold stud(s) issues instead. It had all the same symptoms: progressively getting worse, only doing it at low rpms, then sometimes doing it at higher rpms after more time. And the fluttering sound turns into an obnoxious ticking sound at higher rpms as well. I thought for sure I had bad VTCs. Then I went and grounded it. Then I heard what the VTC tick really was. I suppose grounding good VTCs makes bad ones, cuz there was a very definitive ticking/tapping going on. It's way easier to pinpoint this sound than it is to pinpoint the exhaust stud sound. It was quite obviously coming from under the valve covers.

To clear some things up for anyone that might be confused about the 2 sounds:

Exhaust stud problems: cricket-chirpy fluttery sound (it can get pretty brutal) very hard to pinpoint where it's coming from.

VTC problems: definitive ticking/metal tapping sound coming from under the valve covers.

I was sorta happy, but disappointed to discover my exhaust problem... Means that my VTCs are just fine (yay) but that I need to spend 300-500$+ to get the exhaust studs replaced (boo).

trbo

has anyone that looked into the vtc's not working properly ever look into the ecu part of the vtc function?
A bad ecu wont be picked up by a Nissan Consult.
My ecu was manually tested pin by pin to check for the outputs conditions.
My ecu had no response on the vtc output pin, I think its pin 54, but dont quote me on that number.
It grounds out the VTC's when full throttle is in effect, which engages the solenoids to move the cam timing accordingly.
I personally think the rewire is a bad mechanics way of "fixing" a problem.(basically like increasing idle speed on a carbed motor when it runs rough at normal idle speed)In the end, there is still something wrong.
These engines are meant to be revved, why else would there be a timing chain instead of a belt???
4200rpm + is where the fun begins with these motors, and with the rewire, these motors are no fun.
I think many people overlook the ecu in these cars, they are very touchy units for some reason.
Ive spent the last six months trying to figure out this hesitating problem.
My maxipad has 200 000kms on it, 40k of which are pure abuse, and still I have no vtc noise. Ive used mobil 1 5w30 synthetic since I've owned it(155k kms).
My friends dad's Maxi is experience the same symptoms as mine had, I'm going to check the vtc output on the ecu as well on his, and hook up my new ecu on it. And I'll keep you people posted.
Both max's are 92 VE SE 5spds black on black.
His only has 110k kms!

Sorry for the lengthy thread, but i hope some of you are open minded enough to give all this some thought.
Anti re-rewire Maxima owner.
CHARLES

maximaracer28

Does anyone know of the cheapest way to take care of the vtc problem? im afradi the problem is starting in my car which im praying its not. i dont want to spend close to 2 grand to fix this problem, because my father will make me sell the car if it is the vtcs.