speednsound007

Well now that I ahve put this much money into my car already, and I can't seem to stop, I am now ready to start making my car fast after I finish off the suspension. Forgot Y pipe, intake, muffler...this is all useless basically. I think the only worthwhile mod's would be to go for SC or turbo. I have read all the previous posts and evrything about this, and seen the few people who have the turbos.

Supercharging: Haven't heard of anyone doing this yet. Is it possible to just buy a generic SC and have a shop Fab. it on for you, all custom work? I am thinking this will be WAY to expensive ($3000 for a new kit $1500 cutoms work?)

Turbo: A couple routes
-300ZX turbo engine, whats the name for it? The 87-89 model is the one that goes in easiest correctly? How much would a used one of these from a junkyard run? What else would be needed? Programmed ecu, fuel pump, ect? Shop custom install, total $$$?

-My idea, if the 300zx has a similar engine, could I not just buy the turbo parts off a junked 300zx and then have a shop fab them onto my car? This would seem to be the cheapest/easiest route. The single turbo 300zx turbo pull 260 hp right? I would definitley be happy to clear 100 more hp.

I would like to be able to get this done with $1500-$2000 if possible...Just wanted to see what you guys thought about all this, maybe some of you in my situation/who ahve already gotten boost could help me out. Thanks a lot.

PJ

SkyMax

First of all, you will need to upgrade your tranny because it will not withstand power from a S/C or Turbo. There is a way to Supercharge your max. Custom fabrication will be needed. Don't buy a 4th gen S/C and try to mod it to the 3rd gen. It is a waste of $$$ because you won't use most of the S/C parts for the 4th gen. There is a place down in Southern California called Climax Racing. They claim they can do a custom S/C install for a 3rd gen for around $3000 - $4000. I'm not 100% sure if this is true.. someone mentioned it on the BBS a while ago.

Turbo... Well the 300ZX Turbo puts out around 205 - 215hp depending on the year. The 85-89 300ZX engines will fit. 87-89 uses different Turbos. It is possible to use 300ZX parts for your current VG30E maxima engine. But it is not safe to do so. The compression on the VG30E engines on our maxima is 9:1. With such high compression our engines will not handle over 8psi of boost without eventually causing engine damage. If your going to use the stock VG30E motor, then you'll need to use 300ZX headers and you will need a custom crossover pipe and exhaust downpipe. You will also want to run an intercooler to keep the temperature down so that will mean you will need FMIC piping and piping to the Turbo & intake manifold. I suggest you leave the boost level around stock (which is 6psi). Tranny upgrade is a MUST or else you'll be slipping through all the gears.

lil_Jay22

iTrader: (1)

if you do swap the engine to a 300zx-turbo engine can the turbo be upgraded for more power?????

and why do u say that you would have to modifing the tranny?? even a 5 speed manual, or does it just apply to auto?


I have my mind made up about swaping engines thats why I want to know more about it.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

A little addition/justification here..

Since this question is presented about 40 times/week on this board, and Nevin has (somewhat) sucessfully done this, I'm making this durn thing sticky so everyone can see it's NOT as easy as just welding a turbo onto the exhaust manifold.

As for places to look for a VG30E-T engine (used in the 85-89 300ZX turbos), go to www.car-part.com and fill in the boxes for this engine. last time I did, I turned up about 60 matches across the country with various prices.

Kraus91SE

I talked to Ben at Jim Wolf and he said all you need is the exaust manifold & turbo from 84-87 300zxthe injectors from a 90 and up 300zxtt, custom intake pipe,custom down pipe and have Jim Wolf program your ECU.

speednsound007

yea, I know that this was inevitable also, the damn things can't holdup with stock power. What did the people do to solve this that have boost on the third gens? I would have no problem keeping the boost at 6psi so I can use the stock motor. Did the 300zx have an intercooler? If so, I would use one of those also.

If I did get the turbo, I would definitley want a new exhaust system anyways, so upgrading that would not be too big of a deal. How much do the custom exhausts run from the headers back?

What about the price to fab on the turbo/intercooler?

I know this has been asked, and I know it's not easy...but I am just trying to see what it would all entail, and a FINAL price. I was hoping Turbo91Max (or some name like this) would be able to give me a figure.

thanks guys,
PJ

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Sure.. then add a few weeks of labor into getting everything put together.. now start it up and throw it on a dyno to tune the system. as soon as you crank the boost over about 6psi, your stock engine will go BOOM! because the compression is too high.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

your final price is completely dependent upon how much stuff you end up having to do, how expensive the shop is, and what you're wanting to do.

Full custom exhaust from the headers back? throw in about $800, including the cat.

install an intercooler and re-tune the system? throw in $1000 for parts and labor.

As for the trannies, most of the guys run 5 speeds with upgraded clutches, and hope they don't blwo anything up.

just an estimate on price, think $3500-4000, and that's just for the "basic" turbo install and set up. then you add the custom exhaust and intercooler and other $$$ parts.. the price can skyrocket very quickly.

SkyMax

I haven't seen Turbo91Max post for a while so don't count on him answering your post. Your best bet would be Me, Vitaly, Maximamike, Jeff92SE, Kaleb, Matt93GXE, and some other veterans when you want answers about Turbocharging a 3rd gen max.

Tranny: You and I know that the auto tranny won't hold up. So what do you do?? Well you can get the tranny rebuilt by a reputable company such as Level 10 or you can buy aftermarket upgrades such as Protorque Torque Converter, custom Valve Body upgrade, Tranny oil cooler... just to name a few. 5-speed owners... All you need to worry about is your clutch. An ACT puck-6 clutch will solve that problem in no time.

Cost: I don't know how much $$$ other people have spent for their custom Turbo but since I have attempted this project before, I will give you my estimate which I paid for my parts. Oh by the way.. I had FREE labor so all my estimates that I spent does not include labor costs.

89 300ZX Turbo 5-spd (entire car) - $3000 (I wasn't able to find a VG30ET engine in good shape so I ended up buying the entire car and then selling the rest back to the owner)
Custom exhaust manifolds: $750 (includes $150 from Jet Hot coating)
GReddy front mount Intercooler: $900 (includes all piping and braces)
Custom reverse Y-pipe: $550 (includes $150 from Jet Hot coating)
HKS super-twin BOV: $200
Garret T3/T4 hybrid Turbo upgrade: $600
Nismo 550cc fuel injectors: $1200
300ZX TT fuel pump: FREE
Nismo fuel regulator: $100
GReddy boost controller: $250
Custom mandrel bent Intercooler piping (from Turbo to Intercooler) & Intake piping (from Throttle body to Intercooler): $350-$400
Z31 ECU: FREE
Pistons & Rods (I never had the chance to order these for my Z since my motor blew): est $1400 - $1800 (not titanium)

These are just the estimates that I paid (some parts I did not pay for and others were estimates from local companys) when I ordered my parts for the Z31 motor.

~SkyMax aka Nevin

speednsound007

89 300ZX Turbo 5-spd (entire car) - $3000 (I wasn't able to find a VG30ET engine in good shape so I ended up buying the entire car and then selling the rest back to the owner)
Custom exhaust manifolds: $750 (includes $150 from Jet Hot coating)
GReddy front mount Intercooler: $900 (includes all piping and braces)
a lot of these costs I would be able to eliminate if I kept my stock motor and had a ZX turbo fashioned on... then I would just be looking at turbo off 300ZX, tranny upgrade, boost controller, ECU, fuel pump, and intercooler...basically. Any idea how much a shop would charge for this custom turbo job? What were you quoted? Maybe someone wants to do the work for free as a project car, lol j/k.

thanks.

Custom reverse Y-pipe: $550 (includes $150 from Jet Hot coating)
HKS super-twin BOV: $200
Garret T3/T4 hybrid Turbo upgrade: $600
Nismo 550cc fuel injectors: $1200
300ZX TT fuel pump: FREE
Nismo fuel regulator: $100
GReddy boost controller: $250
Custom mandrel bent Intercooler piping (from Turbo to Intercooler) & Intake piping (from Throttle body to Intercooler): $350-$400
Z31 ECU: FREE
Pistons & Rods (I never had the chance to order these for my Z since my motor blew): est $1400 - $1800 (not titanium)

These are just the estimates that I paid (some parts I did not pay for and others were estimates from local companys) when I ordered my parts for the Z31 motor.

~SkyMax aka Nevin [/B][/QUOTE]

SkyMax

Ok.. so lets say you keep your stock VG motor and want to add a Z31 Turbo. Well in that case then you will want to get a Turbo off an 85-86 300ZX because they are T3's. The 87-89 300ZX use T25 Turbos. Yes they start spooling quicker but they will not give you as much power as a T3. You didn't hear this from me but *cough* there's a guy who claims he fabricated a custom turbo for under $1000. I've talked to his guy before in AIM and I somewhat believe it can be done. A boost controller is not really needed if your going to keep your stock VG motor because you will not want to increase your boost over 6psi. You will want Z32 pump, injectors, new engine mounts, new flywheel, upgraded clutch/tranny, Z31 ECU, intercooler (not needed but I strongly recommend. Also the Z31's do not have factory intercoolers. Z32's use multiple small intercoolers so you can't use them either.), new radiator fan, turbo timer, pulleys, blow off valve, possibly new alternator (I replaced mine with a stronger one), find a shop to make custom headers, downpipe, ect... BTW Harrison told me he is able to hook anyone up with exhaust manifolds and piping for custom Turbo.. he quoted me $450 for the piping. Harrison (Turbo91Max) was using his original VG30E motor when he Turbocharged his max. Then he blew the motor and now he's using a Z31 motor.

speednsound007

Of what he spent on boosting his stock motor? I am just wondering so I can know what i'd be looking at out the door (safely and something that I can rely on to run). If the price is too high, I'd rather just upgrade to a 4th gen and SC that which has a kit for it.

How many PSI was Harrison running when he blew the stock motor?

Are you going to attempt this on your max? You said you "attempted" it. I am hoping that I will be able to get this local customizing shop to "sponsor" my car and stick their logos all over it and stuff, then maybe I could get the price dropped a lot. I may drop by and see if their interested, shops usually like to do novelty stuff like this that isn't done a lot so that they are original.

thanks,
PJ

thebull

this may be a cheaper way to go for those of us who just dont have the experience to build a custom turbo, or the money to do the swap. is there a safe way to run NOS and see comparable results to the turbo? an NOS kit is like $500 and then the ECU upgrade is like another 500 or so.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

I'd love to go turbo, but $3-4k++++ spent at once is a little too much for me! plus by building up over time I can do other little things with the car and keep some loot for myself as well. Seeing as how I'll have my Max for at least 3 more years, heres my plan:
1. complete bolt-ons, VB and TC(summer/fall '01)
2. buy used engine and trans(preferebly w/ 90-100k or less)(winter 2001)
3. rebuild engine to handle more power (over time so the cost will be spread out) also include cams, valve job, P/P(for good measures ), maybe some JE pistons etc.(spring/summer 2002)
4. rebuild trans internals at local shop and swap VB and TC(fall 2002)
5. upgrade fuel system(?)
6. 75-100 shot NOS
7. spending COUNTLESS days at EIP getting everything straight

*knock on wood*

Expected date of completeion........who the hell knows, but if everything goes as planned I'd say winter 2002, early 2003! I figure this should be good for low 13's maybe a 12.9..?

as for nitrous on the stock VG engine with bolt-ons I guess with 75 being the maximum shot for safety purposes mid-high 13's would be possible!?!?

either way you look at it, its gonna cost you some loot, but with the turbo guys they have the advantage of being able to raise the boost and using NOS to get them off the line is even more of a plus!! so I doubt going the nitrous route on a n/a VG will ever match the turbo capabilities of the VG-T swap, unless you do some MAJOR n/a reworking and then pump CRAZY AMOUNTS of laughing gas in there.....

thats my shot at this whole issue......

FroMan

Did you ever look into a larger radiator? A la Nismo? There is one for the Z32. It would probably require some custom lines, but it would increase the cooling capacity if it fit.

I spent many a time looking under the hood pondering where I would mount a turbo to begin with. SO where would you mount it.

The Z32 is selt up as 1 turbo and 1 IC powering one half of the engine. With this in mind why not mount the turbo low on the drivers side front. Use a stock or stillen IC and mount it in a simialr fashon to the Z32. Then run the outlet to the intake piping from a cai...

Just a crazy idea from a crazy engineer....

Fro

Maximamike

The NISMO radiator is a joke. Its the Euro spec model from the TT. In fact, the NA's radiator is larger than the TT's. Wierd ****..

SkyMax

Just get an aftermarket (good name brand) single fan radiator and you'll be fine.

Czar

I just wanted to say that I am now starting a turbo project. Here is my turbo, a T-3 from an 85 Z31. I bought the manifolds as well, but after buying them I realized that the customization to get them to work would be pricy for my VE engines. My dad and I came up with an ingenious way of mounting the turbo so that only one simple custom exhaust pipe would have to be routed, using the stock manifolds. I am running a pipe from the rear bank under the engine to right below the front bank manifold. The turbo is in a non traditional position with the exit from the turbine section facing directly to the rear underneath the engine and the compressor faces the radiator. I want to keep everything above the crossmember for protection, so I measured from the bottom of the front exhaust manifold to the bottom of the crossmember at 7 1/2" while the turbo assy is about 6". With the tight fit I am thinking about having the tubular front manifold cut and have the flange reattached higher up for more clearance. I was surprised to find on the VE block a pretapped hole for the turbo oil supply. BONUS!!! Its right in the same location as the VG-T. I'll have to have a small pipe brazed onto the oil pan for the oil return hose. The coolant lines seem pretty straightforward and easy to install, and its nice that its water cooled. Initially I think that I will use simple plastic boost hoses to get from the turbo to the throttle body and relocate the MAS to the front of the car. I think that I can get this thing going for <$800, even though I overpaid for the turbo and unuseable mainfolds @ $250.......

Czar

little diagram...

Maximamike

Yay, told you guys you didn't have to spend a fortune to get a turbo VE. Great research, Czar! Another place you could mount it would be on the top(move the battery to the trunk) near the intake. This would make the exhaust pipes longer, but the intake shorter. That position would look like this http://www.geocities.com/maximamike/...xes/ve-t.jpeg. You still have that spare VE? How many miles?

Czar

well if it is as easy as I think it will be I may just put the turbo on the engine in my car. My spare needs a rebuild, it spun a bearing at 150K miles(and 150MPH at the time whoo hoo!) The crank needs resurfacing(one journal is .007 out of factory tolerances for diameter) but not a bad engine. It has brand new VTC's and I was thinking about putting 8.5 to 1 pistons in it but the price of forged pistons these days.......

Maximamike

Screw expensive forgings Use 300ZX twin turbo rods and pistons. They're cast but they're strong as hell. They hold around 600 wheel hp. You can buy them cheap used too.

SkyMax

TT Pistons & Rods are heavy but are a good choice. Don't get NA Pistons.. it will be a horrible site with the Turbo!

Czar

I am using stock VE 10:1 pistons. So shoot me. And laugh at me when I tell you about 4 burnt pistons. This is a cheap turbo, not some 350 hp banzai machine. I hope for 240 crank hp @ 5.5 psi.....

SkyMax

Hurry up and finish your Turbo project. Then I'll be able to buy a VE and buy your new "turbo kit". lol

Czar

BTW my max will always be for sale for the right price but I am making no efforts to sell it esp. after deciding I didn't want a GSX. The turbo project continues....

Lets be nice to the newbie and maybe he will learn something. Once I get done I should be able to say how turbocharging a 10:1 engine works and then I will be able to say more authoratively what works. I have researched this and the JWT turbo VQ and the stillen kit. With low boost the stock fuel system SHOULD be adequate with a FPR and an upgraded pump. As I have said before my porject is not an experiment in power but rather how it can be done cheaply for some modest gains. Below 6psi generally you don't need an intercooler b/c most turbos are efficient enough to not create tons of heat at those levels unless you are in AZ or some other hot climate. You can turbo any car, but you must exercise caution etc. Everything that people do to turbocharge any maxima ecxept the VG-T swap can be applied to any VG, VE, or VQ. VG's will probably be the easiest b/c the lower comp. ratio and the fact that turbos make up for the poorer breathing on the 2 v/cyl. heads. VE's are harder due to the higher comp. ratio, and VQ's are the hardest becasue they don't have the rigidity that an iron block has. Just fabricate your pipes, bolt on the turbo, get a bunch of gauges, set a manual boost control to 3 psi and play around with it to see what you can do. anything is possible, and I understand that there is some charm in having the turbo over the stillen s/c due to the custom nature of any 4th gen turbo install.
Prices:
$400 for a T3-T4
$100 for the mandrel bent aluminized piping sections and flanges from jc whitney
tons of time in making a jig and cutting to fit the reverse y and down pipe
$150 to have a header shop weld it all together for you
$100 for heat and corrosion coatings
$100 for piping from the filter to turbo and turbo to throttle body
$20 for a manual boost control to keep the boost safe untill you get gauges and tune it right.

Czar

--Update--

I don't know who is following my progress or not, but I found it impossible to use the front manifold without modifications. I needed to mount the turbo higher up so the oil would flow back into the pan. So anyways that necessitates cutting apart the stock manifold which takes WAAAY too much room in the front and placing the turbo flange basically right underneath the exhaust port for the #6 cylinder. The whole manifold has to be cut apart and the runners shortened up to keep everything right next to the engine. I am running the rear bank right into the front manifold(I am kinda concerned about flow and backpressure at this point) and using a 2 1/2 downpipe because the 3" wouldn't bend tight enough to clear the crossmember when it goes back underneath the engine. (supposedly all my concerns are answered with the fact that hot gases flow better than cool gases, and hopefully everything will work). I ordered a MIG welder to get all the stuff I hacked apart all together again, and then it all gets ceramic coated. If you ever do something like this, use at least 14 ga. tubing between the manifolds and turbo. Any thinner results in too much expansion and cracking. So anyways I won't have my welder for prob another week, then I am going on vac. so I hope to have it boltable to the car by the end of July while I save up the $$$ for ceramic coating, etc.

lil_Jay22

iTrader: (1)

So is there any one that has intructions or acurate ideas on doing the famous engine swap from the late 80's300zx?? After a long consideration I have decided if it can safely be done I wouldnt really mind spending the 3-4G's if its going to be fast and worth it. I was going to buy a firebird trans am but I rather move out from home if I can make my max a fast ride.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

That isn't simply a drop-in kit where you buy an 88Z engine and print out instructions and go to town... you MUST know what you're doing, and this is another situation where it's safe to say: "If you have to ask how it's done, then you shouldn't be trying to do it." period.
if you REALLY want a turbo in your car, take it to a GOOD custom japanese engine/race shop and hand him your car and a big pile of cash. hint that the 85-89 turbo Z has the engine you need, and let him worry about the rest.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Here's some info thanks to Nismo87SE.


This info pretains to the 2nd gen maximas and Z31 300zxs.

Yes, that was the actual subject title of the email to me. Look at what the boys at JWT came up with:

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Here is the info I can give you right now. I think I covered all the bases but there might be
some other items left out.

You supply the following:
1) 88/89 300N/T ECU core for JWT to upgrade
2) Your own turbo manifold (either the factory 84-89 turbo ZX manifold which we aren't sure will totally work or make your own.
3) turbo (or one of our JWT Sport turbos,)
4) intercooler
5) intercooler ducting including pipe for MAF to turbo inlet.
6) Have exhaust downpipe/outlet and headpipe redone. Possibly a larger exhaust system fabricated.

We supply you with the following (note the following prices are based on you purchasing all the parts below as a pkg deal
1) Upgrade your ECU you send us $505.00
2) 6 qty 420cc injectors $90.00 each = $540.00
3) 6 qty resistors for the injectors $2.55 each = $15.30
4) 1993 Ford Mustang Cobra MAF $287.50
5) JWT Pop-Charger for the Ford MAF $105.00
6) JWT N2O Control Module $383.00
7) JWT N2O hardware kit $496.00
8) HKS standard compressor bypass valve $85.00
9) Greddy Profec B boost controller $378.00

Total to JWT will be $2416.80 plus CA sales tax and shipping (if needed.)

Let me know what you think,
Ben @ Jim Wolf Technology
Technical and Sales Support
Performance Technology for Nissan Vehicles
(619) 442-0680 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm Pacific Time Zone
(619) 579-8160 24 hour fax