greggie195

iTrader: (1)

From the moment I read this I thought timing belt, and you said you checked it that night, I found that a little hard to believe (no offense) because it's covered and I thought it may be a pain in the a$$ to take off the cover on the street, although not impossible. First and foremost check your timing belt, unfortunatly if it's off and was cranked, Im pretty sure the valves are going to be shot. After my belt was changed I drove it a bit and it started bucking badly, I immediatly turned off the car and got a tow to my real mechanic (not the crackhead friend of a friend who originally did it) and he said it was one tooth off and if I didnt stop when I did the engine would have been shot. He fixed it (for $70) and I havent had a problem since. Just my 2 cents.

greggie195

iTrader: (1)

Not to thread jack, but Brian, what kind of car was that, out of curiosity?

VEvolution

It's okay. I wanted to know the same thing

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

87 chevrolet celebrity 2.5 I yhink the vin code was U
stupid non-metal gears.
we pulled the whole motor to pull the cam on that one
of course 2 weeks later one of the mechanics had the bright idea to just lower the cradle a little on the one side ans notch the inner fender to be able to remove the cam while it was still in the car
that car was faster than my first max though :-\ (the car it replaced)

VEvolution

Okay.. To be able to take a look at my timing belt, should I

1)jack vehicle?
2)remove engine under covers and drain coolent from rad?
3)remove R.H. wheel?
4)remove following belts, alternator, power steering, compressor?
5)loosen crankshaft pulley bolt?
6)remove crank pulley with suitable puller?
7)remove upper radiator hose and water inlet hose?
8)remove compressor drive belt idler bracket?
9)remove water pump pulley?
10)remove front upper and lower belt covers?

Am I missing anything? Or would it be wiser just to do a compression test, and if theres no compression, then Im done for? Would the compression test really help diagnose a ripped timing belt? I was looking at a compression test kit today and it was like $37, so I don't know if it's worth getting if it's still not gonna tell me Im 100% finished with this engine. Thanks.

vansskaterfreek

iTrader: (14)

doesnt your motor have to run or compression test??? dunno how it works....to look at timing belt, i think, not sure but i think, you remove the 3 belts, and basically anyhting in your way of gettting to the belt. i htink alternator, upper radiator hose, maybe water pump.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

a compression test can be done as long as the motor cranks

ron4291

ohm your spark plug wires over, they should all be within a few ohms of each other, if not replace then check your coil, sounds like an ignition problem, if that dont work disconnect your o2 sensor and try cranking my wouldnt turn over and when it did it ran rough till i diconnected the o2 sensor. these motors are solid and can take alot more neglect than domestic cars, stick with your ignition system the problem is there, follow the fsm and check every aspect of it till u find the fault.

aminus21

iTrader: (14)

did u check your fuses?? check engine control fuse.. if you havent done so.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

ok do me a favor go get new plugs and wires and try to start the bish.......youve said 3 wires didnt even spark...... if you still have a problem, then you need to move on to checking the fuel pump, does it gush fuel?? ok there then you need to get the timing belt looked at.

so lets recap
1. new plugs and wires
if ok then drive like you did
if not then chek fuel pump
if pump ok then move to timing belt

good luck dude.

Minty91GXE

iTrader: (3)

when you see a spark it is some serious voltage usually. it will leap at least 2 inches in you will KNOW its there and see how dangerous it can be. thats a proper spark

VEvolution

Yeah, and it cranks really fast. Another clue on why Im thinking it's the timing belt.

Seems most of you guys are really not into the belt idea. Does my incident not sound like timing belt failure? Come on, these engines where never known to just stop sparking, right? Especially when I recently did a tune-up. Okay, so checking the ohms on the ignition wires.. Where do I touch for a proper reading? Inside the rubber hole? Do I have to be cranking? Cause thats a tough thing for me to do ever since my battery stopped holding a charge. I gotta keep askin friends to come boost me everytime. Probably makes more sense that I have to be cranking so, these tests gotta wait. Anyway, thanks for the advice. Im gonna check those things out when I get a chance.

Well, I never actually got a chance to check all the plugs. 1 out of 4 sparked. Im not even sure if that one sparked cause I didn't actually see anything, just felt a bit of clicking vibration coming from the rubber I was holding. My friend had to get outta there, and since that day, I never got a proper reading. I rarely have a chance to crank the engine, cause I gotta keep getting boosts, so it's not that easy to run these electrical tests. Thats why Im in such a rush to see this timing belt to think about what to do next. Well, I have fuel. Put ignition on, and slid the hose off the engine, got fuel gushing out, so thats a good thing, I guess. And as for getting new plugs, and wires, I feel it's smarter to troubleshoot first before buying things and feeling like a dip shi* after I realize thats not the problem, you know? Thanks anyway.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

i understand, but you really need to check that all plugs are sparking, if they are not, then thats gotta be a good place to start fixing stuff.

Mizeree_X

iTrader: (9)

I vote timing belt. I think some people are shying away from it because you mistakenly told us that you had 'checked' it earlier in the thread, when you had in fact been checking an accessory belt. My dad had a Buick, I was driving to my aunt's house with my learner's permit, when I floored the thing pulling out of a gas station on a fast road. I then experienced the exact same symptoms you describe. Turns out, the timing CHAIN had snapped (so much for GM quality).

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

what the he|| did you do to the buick that you broke the CHAIN?

VEvolution

Chain snapped? Wow, GM rocks. You VE guys don't even replace those, do you? So the steps I described for checking out the timing belt are about right?

And if this engine is done for, it maybe kind of a relief for me, since I have been feenin for a VE with a 5-spd ever since I started learning about these cars, BUT Im really not lookin to buy another 3rd gen. I like this one I have a place to do the swap, and some good help when I need it. Can you recommend the best place for looking for this engine+tranny? Ebay? Thanks.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

run the ecu diagnostic mode. Could still be something electrical. If your timing belt was replaced properly (with a new tensioner) it should be fine.

VEvolution

Even after 60K?

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

yes they say change it at 60k.....but it could go a a little longer or it could crap out at 40....fords VG i think said to change the belt at 105,000 because it was made to be non-interference. So you can see why it should be changed at 60k.

before you go and get a ve 5spd swap "kit" just know for sure whats wrong with your current car....since its been this long and you havent figured out the problem dont you think you should take it to a trusted mechanic??

VEvolution

Heh, everytime I think about my many mechanics through the past 2 years of owning my car, I get shivers. I made a promise to myself that I would never EVER go to a mechanic again. I really don't think someone who cares about their car should either, especially a 4DSC enthusiast

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

haha, well if you can fix it then fix it, but to me you dont even have a clue at whats wrong with it, so i dont see it getting fixed anytime soon. when i said trusted i meant trusted, you have to have a good mechanic around you. I care about my car and i take it to a mechanic, one i trust. im sure even some 4DSC enthusiast in NY would look at it as well if you refuse to take it to a mechanic. good luck man.

VEvolution

Well, I have some clues. Pretty sure it's the timing belt. Will make sure very soon. If not, ignition probably.

All I have to say about the mechanic thing is, they seem to compare our cars to other cars since they work on many different models, and most cars all require different needs. Many think the 3rd gen has only one engine slash don't care. One man can't know everything. Plus I go to tech school, so I could use the practice.

Edit: And alot of the time(at least here in NY) the mechanic himself doesn't actually do the job. He assigns it to one of his little henchman, who has no respect for his nor your car. My favorite was overtorqued wheels, every time a wheel came off. I once caught a flat. Tried to change tire, pulled my back, broke my spare tool, broke a second lug wrench I bought from the nearest parts store.. Never got the tire off I later found out it was a bit over 120 ft.lbs. Mechanic clean for 8 months now...

greggie195

iTrader: (1)

I definatly hear you on that mechanic situation, I know that my mechanic Ive been using for years is pretty good but he also passes the work off to cronies. I try to do most of the work myself, but when it came to the timing belt I left that to the mechanic, I didnt want to screw up the timing and blow my engine. I know he always makes up for any mistakes he makes, so he's good that way. That's why I consider him a "trusted" mechanic. To check the timing belt I think you could just take off the top cover which I dont think is all that involved, but then again I never did it myself.

VEvolution

Yeah man. They do alot of stuff they aren't suppose to do. It's just when I see how new expensive cars are treated at dealerships, I know my car will never get such treatment from these guys. Only from the enthusiast owner

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

You should be able to see the timming belt, to know that it hasn't snapped right? (I dont' have a vg). And the likeliness that its jumped a tooth or more is verrrrry slim. You also said that the engine cranks (so your not smashing valves into the pistons because you'd hear all sorts of terrible noises), I think its electrical, ecu, mafs, ignition relay etc. fuse(s)

scutdaddy

Some1 H.E.L.P. please... I have a 92 MAX SE that I am in love with and my baby is sick. Drivin to casino and lights made a bright flash then car died. I popped the hood and saw that battery was cracked, split, and smokin. Replaced batt. and alternator and now blowin the electronic start fuse when the switch is moved to start position and no headlights, no fog lights, but i got park lights. I've done all that i know. PLEASE HELP ! ! !

VEvolution

Why are you jacking my thread?

goon9

iTrader: (13)

Is there any other fuse, than an electronic fuse?

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

he done jacked another thread as well.

scutdaddy

don't get mad bout the jackin fellas. we should be here to help each other instead of being concerned w/ minor things like that..come on we do share the same interests.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

simple anser for you scutty is that you have a short most likely since youre blowing fuses like its your job.

VEvolution

Thing is though, theres a reason why you need to post 15 times before your allowed to start a thread. That doesn't make it okay for you to come on here, and post your problem on other peoples threads that have nothing to do with yours, regardless of your car breaking down as well as mine. I don't wanna come home, go to my CP, get excited over a new post, and find out a few seconds later that it has nothing to do with my thread. Please don't do it again. Post a few more times, start a thread of your own.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

in all honesty joe youve been given 3 pages of help....put yourself in his shoes. i mean you acted like seeing a message in this thread is like a golden ticket to fix your car. you have to check the stuff that people suggest.....ya know since you wont trust a mechanic....

vansskaterfreek

iTrader: (14)

be nice guys

VEvolution

So that makes it okay for him to thread jack, right? This isn't the only thread you know. I've been in his shoes, I posted 15 times, then started a thread. Your right about me thinking every post is a golden ticket though. I really should start checkin these things, but I really don't appreciate being thread jacked. Im sure you wouldn't either.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

my bad man, im not trying to rag on you, and no i dont want my thread jacked just like you.

you gonnna have time this weekend to check your timing belt?

VEvolution

Definatly. My friend is actually on his way here to help me troubleshoot, and with my jack I let him borrow months ago.

VEvolution

Well, what can I say? Unfortunatly it was the timing belt afterall.

Yesteraday, as I was troubleshooting, the reason why I would only get spark from one of the wires is because the distributer was stuck in that one position that gives spark to that specific wire. The distributer won't rotate if the timing belt isn't there, is the conclusion me and my friend came to. Also, as I kept cranking, we heard a crazy whistle come out of the engine bay. We figured it was a bent valve not sealing. Super fast cranking as well gave me another reason to think it would be the timing belt. But I had to see it to believe it. To be sure, I went in this morning. Above is what I found.

Oh, and one more thing.. For those who knew, thank you very much for letting me know that I wouldn't need to do all that crap that I posted on doing, which I copied out of my FSM, just to get a sneak peek at my timing belt. Cool, I was actually about to do all of that stuff too.

To get a glimpse of my T-belt, all I needed to do was remove engine under covers, drain the coolant, remove the upper radiator hose, the one next to it, loosen some mounted hoses to get my hands close to the belt cover, remove most of the bolts of upper T-belt cover(major PITA.. couldnt even reach the one on the lower right no matter what I tried) And finally, just bent the cover a bit out of the way to reveal my nice shiny naked sprockets with a torn T-belt hangin out right over them. I knew I shoulda replaced the belt when I had a chance.

Well, thanks alot for all the help/feedback guys. As always, much appreciated.

P.S.- Is it a 100% thing, that when the T-belt breaks, my engine is finished? And yes, I've cranked it many times after the incident.

5 ltr. beater

I snapped a timing chain on my old LT1 camaro (forgot to put the harmonic balancer back on after putting the UDP on ) and 2 cylinders came up and slammed against the vavles. Unfortunately both heads had to come off and had to have the bent vavles replaced. I was lucky I didn't bend the rods otherwise I would've been totally screwed.
Same thing in your case. you just need to find out where the pistons came up and hit the vavles. You might be lucky and need only one head to come off instead of two.

VEvolution

Man, those GM chains are snapping left and right. So when your valves slammed the pistons, weren't your pistons also damaged?

One of these days, when Im bored, I'll take it apart and see what happened. When you say heads, you mean the valve covers? What would I need to take off to take a look at the damage done? Intake manifold, valve covers...? What else? I know Im probably gonna need that tool to take the valves out of those springs. If possibly I may get lucky as you said, how much you think it would run me just for parts?