todamax

iTrader: (6)

Woah, hang on man. I'm on your side here. But having an engine sitting in a car doesn't mean much. Does it start? Does it drive down the street? Does it make noises like its going to fall apart? Does it pass emissions? Do all the electronics work like they should? If yes, then cookie+1. The car looks like a POS, so I have serious doubts about it actually working properly.

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

The files have a picture taken date of January 17, 2004. My impulse was to agree with you except for a few things.

One is the front wheel gap. I don't have Maxima at stock ride height to compare to, but I swear that the front of that car is riding higher than it should. That makes me think there really is a VQ in there since the aluminum block on saves, IIRC, ~100lbs.

The next is the radiator. Notice how far out the top supports are compared to the pic of my VG below?



Finally, this car was for sale on e-bay. Someone went to a heck of a lot of trouble to fake a VQ swap, sell it on e-bay, and then have no one buy it b/c it doesn't run. IIRC, the car was advertised as running.

I think, b/c we here on the .orgy see ridiculous claims all the time (246.7bhp...), we are quick to call B.S But, this one looks real to me. So who wants to try it?

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

you find me a 5th gen front clip and I'll do it


you know it too

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

you also gorget that he did a dash swap too according to his claims
http://internetautomart.com/gallery/VQ-in-3rd-gen <- bit's of info, pics, link to original thread

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

good points you all mention about that so-called VQ swap. at this point, it may simply just go down as legend and myth. i think if it was done in an SE, ran, and was posted here, it would become an icon other than a shady "maybe." it still carries a sort of "bigfoot" sighting quality.

maybe someday i will have it done just for laughs. i'll save my pennies. i'll have a fleet of 3rd gens converted to VQ35s, then have a big tent sale. it'd be like a new car.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

agggggghhhhhh.... there's too many people saying the VG sucks for performance and yadda yadda.

for the unbelievers you need to pick up a copy of Lightning Speed: The Nissan GTP and Group C Racecars (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6526395481)

Electromotive built a VG30ET using the stock block and stock heads for racing the Nissan GTP ZX Turbo racecar. This engine reliably made 800 hp for the races and for qualifying, in excess of 1000 hp. They say it probably hit up to 1200 hp using the qualifying setup. They said this car was sometimes even faster than the R89C which used a 3.5 liter V8 race engine (I believe built off of the VH45DE).



As you can see in the article out of the book, they talk about the power it produced and they also mention the block. They actually later switch to a custom aluminum block which made the engine even more reliable but they did retain the original heads.

I'll have to double check but I think the V6 version of the car held a lap record in LeMans at the very least, up until 2002 (when the book was published). I'm not sure if it still holds the record or not, I'll have to look again. It could have been one of the V8 Nissan cars but I'll have to grab my book and check again.

Either way though, the VG is not even close to the low-performance engine a lot of people claim they are.

Need even more proof? How about Cesar Febus in a 7-second Z31?
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2005...s/c_febus.html

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

That is a fantastic accomplishment but, forgive me for saying this, so what? That motor had to have cost ten of thousands of dollars to develop, build, test... It won't even fit in a Maxima and if it could, no way you could put that kind of power down through front wheel drive. I readily agree that the VG has a lot of potential. But the motor you posted might as well be a twin turbo V-10. Both are as useful to a 3rdGen. That being said, I want one.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

That should slide by emissions with no problem

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

I'm not saying that engine would ever fit in the Maxima (Febus' engine maybe) but not the electromotive version. I'm just pointing out the potential of the VG, which no one seems to even mention. Its just VE is better than VG, VG only makes 160 so it sucks, it doesn't have any top end, yadda yadda.

The truth is, the VG can out perform many engines out there and deserves more respect than what its getting (i.e. quit spreading lies about how the thing sucks).

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

None of that in South Carolina. Not sure if I should be proud or embarrassed....

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

same in kansas and indiana. no testing... but if you were to ever get caught somehow, you'd be screwed.


wait a minute... you could fit that electromotive engine in a maxima... just go hoodless!

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

I obviously can't speak for everyone else, but when I say the VG sucks, I am referring to Maximas, Quest / Villager and any other application that is fwd and uses a SOHC VG. 3rdGens are old and not worth very much. I think that it would take way to much money and more time than I have to give to make a VG perform like a modded VE. Not to mention that kind of work is over my head. However, like you, I have seen Z31s that are insanely fast. Really cool!

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

someone please chime in if i'm wrong, but why was the VE never used again? but they used the VG for years and years in many vehicles. so if the VG sucks, why did they keep making different versions of the VG, VG20, VG30, VG30DET, VG30DETT, but not the VE? they used the VG in the Z car for years. but the VE sort of dropped off the face of the earth.

i asked the questions in this thread a few posts ago: was a factory turbo version of the VE ever made? or other versions at all? and what other vehicles was it used in? did the VE get more use overseas? what is the deal about that engine?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

You spend enough $, any engine can be made to go fast. The VG is a stout engine. Just that it costs too much $ to make it do anything. I even agree. If anyone with some imagination, should be able to hop on Z31 sites and figure out what people have done to get more airflow on a VG na and turbo engine. But face it most guys with VG engines have a hard enough time keeping the damn thing running much less digging into the heads/cams/bottom end.

Tell you what, throw out the same amount of $ and development time on a VE30DE and see what hp someone could come up with. Anyone want to say it would be less than the VG?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Digressing. VE30DE = stop gap engine for the maxima until Nissan could introduce the VQ30 for the maxima. Why would they uses this dedicated FWD engine in anything else? The twin cammed VG engines already are used in the RWD Nissans and made more power anyway.

They could have used the VE30DE in ALL maximas from 92-94. But why? GXE users didn't demand that much power. And this engine was expensive as hell to produce. No need.

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

We are discussing the VG30E vs. the VE30DE when used in a 3rdGen. Currently, the point in question is one of performance and performance potential of these applications. The consensus is that the VG is a solid motor but that the VE easily outperforms it. Furthermore, the VG is expensive to modify to the point of matching a stock VE.

If you would like to add to or counter these points, please do. But don't confuse the issue by discussing engines which don't even fit in Maximas. Finally, we are saying the VG30E sucks when used in a 3rdGen. Thanks.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

thanks. and you just made a case for the VG over the VE. cool.

i knew someone would know something.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

That's the thing though... they don't cost all that much to make them faster. It basically just takes more time and work than money. I got my turbo setup going for about $1,500 and if I did it again could do it for way less. There's another VG turbo guy on here that did his for about $500. Granted this is basically using used and/or rebuilt parts it still works. Boosted Maxima's setup has been going good daily for 20k miles. Mine has been doing good for nearly 2 years now (minus of course the stupid tranny and the rust). Engine wise I've not had a single problem that has put me down for an extended period of time.

I'll just put it this way, if you have the knowledge, skills, and time to do it yourself you can do it cheap. If you don't have those it'll be expensive.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Let me revise my statement. It costs alot of $ to make them fast and reliable. Maybe you have been driving it everyday. Did you ever get it dyno'd? IMHO I don't know if I could drive my daughter to daycare in that car everyday. Sorry. When I do mine, that is the goal. Not only to do it, but do it so anyone can jump in and drive. Every day, all day 365 days a year. Again, put same turbo on a VE, what do you get?

I didn't know we were adding turbos now.

Getting the VG to make 190hp (VE30DE stock hp #), you need to find 30hp somewhere. That is more than an ecu/Y/E/I/udps can give. You probably need cams and maybe head work. Once you tear into the heads, it automatically eliminates 90% of most are willing to do. Much less spend.

Can it be done? Sure. Can it be done cheap? Not really. Maybe for a diyer that can turn all his own wrenches. Is it really worth it? Too me? Not really.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

A broke tranny...

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

Why just the third gen though? Because its FWD? The engine itself is no different than any other VG30E. What makes the VG suck in a FWD platform that doesn't make the VE suck in the FWD platform?

I see no reasoning behind this.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

The reason they'd be cheaper to mod than the VE is because we have the VG30ET to base the build off of. That helps out a lot.

What kind of speeds are we talking though? My car could be considered fast and reliable yet low cost. I understand where you're going but it doesn't always cost a lot.

I also don't disagree in any way that the VE would have as much as and/or more potential than the VG. There just aren't many out there that have found the limits of the engine.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

VG30DETT factory engine will walk the VE. will embarrass it. 3rd gen fitment or not. the engine itself, buddy.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Exactly how? Just because the VG is cheap to make and is easy to use?? I'll take the power, thanks.

I just told you why Nissan only used the engine for a few years. Did it mean it wasn't a good engine? Nope. But I guess you are going to explain that to me

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

just noticed something

I paid $2,500 for my VG 5-speed Maxima. $1,500 for the turbo setup. That equals $4,000. At the time I'm sure a VE 5-speed was that much or easily more. My car is faster than a stock VE and cost the same and/or less.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Um what? Um yeah. A twin turbo VG SHOULD BE ABLE TO absolutely kill most any 3.0 NA V6. Too bad it's wider than Texas. Too bad no twin cam (much less twin turbo'd) VG will fit into a maxima.

THINK about it. If the DOHC VG did fit, why in the hell would Nissan spend ALOT of $, developing basicly an all new engine for the maxima for 2 years??

Can someone please start making some sense?

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

I would hope that a 280hp+ motor would do a little better than walk a 190hp VE. Do you have anything intelligent to add to this thread or are you going to continue to uselessly spout off irrelevant crap?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I can find a VE 5-sp for $2500. And spend $1500 to cobble up a turbo system. And your VG wouldn't even be able to touch it. Not that this really has anything to do with what we are talking about.

Remember, your axles are still smaller, your tranny still doesn't have LSD. Your abs system is not as advanced. Not really apples to apples 100%.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

When my buddy Sam did his VE-T, back in the day, he just happened to race a stock 300zxTT. He actually sat right with him. Dude in the Z was like "WTF"? haha.

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

The fact that it costs more money and time than it is worth just to equal the stock performance of a VE. You are talking about making huge hp with a VG. I just think that it would be wasted on a fwd car. But a Z31 is a diff. story.

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

What happened to that Maxima? Still out there somewhere?

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

These days you can. But I could then also get a VG 5-speed for even less

Anyways though.

I think the tranny will break before the axles.

For some reason I've actually not had much problem with traction (moreso torque steer than anything). I did have a few traction issues when I was messing with the wastegate and hit 15 psi hooboy that was fun. (I did have stock wheels/tires at the time though. I'm not sure if the 235's would have helped out or not).

ABS... is definitely not near as advance.... nor working. One of the stupid wheels sensor broke and I decided to keep the system disabled. I rarely need to use ABS (with my luck now something will happen where I need it)

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Because when you are talking about a VG, you MUST use the sohc/2 valve heads. You MUST use the crappy fwd intake manifolds. Things that the rwd VGs don't suffer from Although I don't think the RWD vg Z31s really made much more (if any) power. As the Z dudes all look to use fwd maxima longblocks as engine replacements. Tells me internally, they are very much the same.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I saw a VE 5-sp for about $1,000. Not sure I'd actually TURBO a $1,000 VE. Or a $1,000 VG for that matter. But any cheap VG is certainly going to need the T-belt done. That's $500 that the Ve doesn't need.

I think Da Max's friend broke some axles.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

So are you just saying keep the Maximas stock period, no matter what engine it has?

VG and VE both making a lot of power will both suck with FWD.

And like I said above, I paid the same amount as I would have to get a VE to have a VG Maxima that is faster than a VE.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Took turbo off. Sold the car to brother. Regretted ever since. But that cheapo turbo kit that he had, was a pos anyway. Just as most any cheap kit will be. But I give him props for what he did on such a small budget. But in no way was it reliable enough for a seriously daily driver. Again as must cheapo kits are.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

it isn't irrelevant crap.

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

I am saying that if you took the money required to make a VG fast / faster than a VE, and spent that money on a VE, you would have a faster car. I am also saying that if you tried to build a VG as described in the article you posted, it would be wasted in a 3rdGen.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

The Maxima intake is supposed to flow better than the early VG30E(T) intake manifolds. Actually, the JDM VG30ET that I got uses the Maxima-style intake manifold and was in a RWD car. The Pathfinder intake is supposed to be the best flowing intake of the VG's... its too bad that thing is so tall. It'll take a bit of modifying to make fit.

I think they mostly use Maxima blocks because they would have less mileage than a Z block but also for the higher compression. I think the 9:1 compared to the 8.3:1 and 7.8:1 makes a big difference.

Pretty all of the VG's are damn near identical. I can say with good confidence that the only difference you'll see internall between a 87-94 VG30E and VG30ET is the pistons. 84-86 VG's had a different crank (shorter snout), different block and head castings, and some other things. The later engines 87+ are called W blocks. Here's a site with some more info on that: http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~radar...eschanges.html

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I think you were saying if one to buy a VG + spend the $ it would take to make as fast as a VE, it would have been cheaper just to buy a VE in the first place.