maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

So I posted this in all motor but they weren't too receptive there... maybe you guys can shed some light.

I have a VE swapped third gen that just got a new clutch. Got the kit from http://www.euro-drive.com/ and I am using a stillen flywheel with a new friction surface. I had a clutch shop surface the flywheel and install the new plate.

After many hours and solving the many issues that I was presented with during the job (everything from bad fastners to wrong parts) I have the car back together. I bled the line and tried to go for a drive and after one trip around the block she won't go into gear. Seems like it's not disengaging properly.

I really REALLY don't want to tear down again. What should I be doing to diagnose this issue?

Has anyone ever heard of the ball that the lever pivots on needing to be replaced??

Here is my plan of attack to resolve this.

Double check tranny fluid level.
Double verify that the lever is getting full travel.
Make triple sure there is no air in the line.

Drop the tranny and inspect:
the pivot point
all mating surfaces
probably replace the lever and pivot ball since I will be in there.

If there is ANYTHING anyone can suggest that I check BEFORE dropping the tranny I would appreciate it. As you would imagine this is the last thing I want to do.

Thanks in advance people.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Wow, what a pickle. So, it shifted fine before starting and good during the first trip around the block? Now it won't shift into any gear, even when turned off?

Did you install the clutch facing the right way? Made sure that the bolts on the pressure plate are torqued down properly given the recommendations for the aluminum flywheel (not "stock" specs by the way)? I recommend using locktite. When I pulled my engine a while back for some work, I checked my flexplate bolts, all were finger loose after being torgued when originally installed. It made since given I had noticed some change/difficulty in my new clutch after only about 1k miles. Glad I checked it or I wuld have ended up with some damage or failed operation.

Have you made sure that the slave cylinder is operating properly....pushing the rod/throwout bearing adequately?

Never heard of the ball needing to be replaced.

maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

For the initial trip I started it, it gave me some resistance but went into reverse. As soon as I started to reverse I noticed that the friction point was very close to the floor. I guess there was a little stickiness going into first but nothing noticeable. By the first stop it was tough to get into any gear. I think I had to hit second rolling to get it home. Sitting still now it won't go in a gear @ idle, but will go into them all when it's off. Seems like something is causing the tranny to spin when the clutch should be dis-engaged.

when you say facing the right way, you mean the disk? I would imagine so.. I think it will only fit one way, no?

I had a clutch shop install the flex plate after the re-surfaced the front of the flywheel. I had noticed it was un-even from the old plate so I thought that would be best.

The slave seems to work well. As far as I can see it has full travel. I had a friend push the clutch then tried to push the lever further using a large piece of pipe. I wasn't able to do so but I'm no govenator.

Everything is bolted down nice and tight. I did my best to do so in a criss-cross pattern.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

I wondered this before, but will ask it now. Have you made any changes or adjustments to your shift linkage or shifter?

But, maybe I need to back up a bit. You said a VE swapped 3rd gen. Do you mean engine or transmission or what? Did you replace your busted engine with a new one using the same tranny that was in the car, so this is a transmission that you are familiar with? Or, is this a new VE transmission in your Max (VE or VG)? Point is, if this is a tranny that you recently purchased and are not familiar with, the transmission may be bad. Typical indication of problems is transmission whining when in the lower gears, especially when in neutral and the clutch is out. The whine goes away when the clutch is pressed in. Does any of that fit?

maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

nawww.. The car has been fine with this tranny for a while now. Only problem was the clutch. Car has a STS but no modifications were made durning the clutch install.

I'm really leaning towards disengagement issues because of the extremely low friction point I felt when driving.

Brudda Bob

iTrader: (3)

Did you torque the flywheel to specs?

Was the friction disk installed to specs ( torque and the order in which the bolts were assembled) Aluminium components are very finicky where these are concerned.

Lastly, did you install the Driver Plate Reinforcement in the rear (between engine and flywheel or was it installed in the FRONT of the flywheel?The reinforcement plate needs to be in the FRONT of the FWheel followed by the bolts.

If you took pictures of different phases of the installation you can easily peruse those as opposed to removing the tranny for an inspection.

maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

As I mentioned before I had a clutch shop install the friction plate to the flywheel. I knew that would be something better left to the pros.

What is the driver plate reinforcement? Can you explain please?

I wish I had pictures, and would have taken some if I had ever had problems installing a clutch before, but I thought this would be a no brainer.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

I'm at a loss. The only other thing I could imagine is that your clutch fork is bent.

Driver plate reinforcement: The plate that goes between the tranny and the engine when bolting up? There are two peices, the top and the bottom. The bottom covers the "bellhousing" near the oil pan since it hangs down lower than the engine block.

maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

Ok, so it's that dust shield looking thing? When I tore down there was only a bottom half. I installed it again on re-assembly. I don't see how it could go in front of the FW though without interference with he PP. hmm.
let me see if I can dig up a diagram form the FSM for reference.

Brudda Bob

iTrader: (3)

FSM
EM
Page 80
Item#17


It's the same for the VG motor even though the diagram is slightly different

GL

maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

hmm, I don't have one of those, but I think using the stillen flywheel eliminates the need for this part. How can I find out for sure?

*edit*
I for sure didn't take this part off the car, below is a pic of the flywheel after I removed the friction plate. You can see that the lock washers from the flywheel bolts have left impressions around the holes. You can't see them anymore because the flywheel was surfaced before the friction ring was installed.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Looks like you've got an awful lot of scaring around those bolts. That would be an indication to me that perhaps your clutch disc was installed backwards.

As far as the two dust plates, I have a VG and it had two, I am certain. I used both covers when I did my VE tranny swap as well. My plate fit right behind the flywheel fine, close, but it fit. I'll double check if I can get a clear visual on it.

maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

Pretty sure those marks are from a hammer trying to get the flywheel seated.it's a tight fit.

I'm still curious about this drive plate reinforcement.

Thanks for checking.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Phew, I've never had to hammer a flywheel...ouch! I confirmed on both my Max and extra VG engine that it has that upper plate. Although I'd not say that it being left off is the source of your problem.

I know we've talked about you running through everything. You stated that the slave cylinder is moving fully and not leaking down, so that should rule out the master and slave cylinders. Of course, I am in the process of replacing/rebuilding the slave cylinder on my wife's max...very similiar symptoms except my slave wasn't moving fully every time which resulted in the peddle going/staying at the floor.

Here is something that I just thought of. Have you tried to adjust the clutch peddle? I tried adjusting mine when I first got the car YEARS ago (stupid). I learned that the system is "self adjusting" and I only ended up screwing with my clutch engagement and making it worse. I was able to put it back where it is supposed to be and everything has worked fine since.

So, if you've not messed with the peddle, the slave cylinder is moving and sustaining it thrust with the peddle depressed, then it must be something with the install. Take it apart and look at everything again. Check the throwout bearing and whether the fork is bent.