ustfdes

iTrader: (5)

why would you even consider AWD in a 3rd gen? don't you know it is a 15 year old car, worth $3k at best? you would be wasting your time to even research it..............


this thread is the embodiment of my reasons for no longer visiting the org.

some would say that what other people have done is stupid, impractical, a waste of time, or all of the above. that doesn't mean that it is in fact stupid. look at shavedmax....did people think what he was doing was stupid? and then change their mind afterwards? most likely.

be old fashioned and all-knowing, by all means please do. but don't talk your crap to the guys lower on the totem pole because they ask a question you think you already know the answer to. (or may ven already know, theres still no need for attitude.)

especially don't bash the 'noobs' who use proper grammar, can admit they're wrong, know at least HOW to ask questions respectfully, and actually have motivation.

ustfdes

iTrader: (5)

and one of the reasons i still check in from time to time. knowledgeable and unbiased assistance and criticism.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

A while a ago, I thought about trying to bolt up some z32 heads, timing equipment, and intake manifold. I just want to see if it was even remotely possible. Is it? If it is, it still won't fit in the engine bay without a lot of custom work and a different hood, right?

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

Fixed

Dhunterx

iTrader: (6)

I didn't think his post was bashing me down. I was making a post as to what I would LOVE to see on a third gen, never said it would ever happen, and that someone should research it. As far as not coming here anymore, thats up to you. Some people can take a hint and know that there are certain answers that can be looked up, otherwise they'll get "bashed". Matt along with others are just delivering the cold hard truth, before any hopes can go sky high and crash and burn when reality sets in. I take anything I read on the internet with a grain of salt, because, well it's on the internet. The org is a great place, but by all means isn't something sacred where the UP MOST respect has to be practiced. Seriously guys, don't make this drama llama with every post.

Dhunterx

iTrader: (6)

iirc, Z32 na heads won't fit because the water passages are too different. Otherwise, I wouldn't know if it would fit under the hood.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

It often bugs me why people on the org are SO negative about trying new things. I try to ignore it, even though I know why they are negative. It's because people always come on the org asking if this is possible or that's possible and it gets annoying because 99.9% of the time we know that these people won't ever attempt what they're asking about.

I guess that I'm just on the fence when it comes to things like this...

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

hmm, that sucks. oh well...

ustfdes

iTrader: (5)

i agree.....questions and topics get beat to death around here, for sure. but if people keep asking the same questions, hell, let them ask, it doesn't hurt anyone....just don't open the thread (not directed at you, but .orgers in general.)

but the OP came at the .org with a serious question, and some apparent knowledge...he didnt come in saying "hay guys, how can i put da turbo in da trunk? it lookz so co0l! i wanna be co0l!"

you know?

i was mainly speaking of his response to the OP. but in your case as well, just not so extreme. cold hard truth is understandable and acceptable, but, to me, 'i know it because i know it, and i am right so don't bother, n00b' is not.

RWD in a max is possible, with the right money, tools, know-how, and time.
1.) is it a waste of money? sure.
2.) is it a waste of time? not if you derive pleasure from your own creation, it isn't.
3.) is it stupid? no, but arrogance and naivety is.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

I just can't resist this thread, I tried! Matt....the lemming comment is fantastic. I wish there was an image for this! Perhaps....
http://www.traumedy.com/lemmings.jpg

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

I understand what you mean.

Alex_V

it'd be closer to working on a VE

Biggest difference is the SOHC VG has 13 head bolts. yes 13....Thats why its so tough. The DOHC has 6 or 8. And they are in completely different locations.

If you want a DOHAWK (DOHC) engine in your VG powered max, swap in a VQ or VE.

Also you guys should do more research on how plausable a VQ swap is...The info is on the org in this fourm.

~Alex

ustfdes

iTrader: (5)

speaking of swaps......gut the bay, trick the computers, and drop a 350 in there. or better yet, a 427.

simpler than anything else, really. x;

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

I was referring to a VE to VG head swap...

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

I have a 351 winsor sitting in the corner of my garage

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

somebody awhile back claimed to drop a 302 or sumtin in, but never posted pics.
wayne told him to post em or stfu, and he exploded on wayne. banned. funny ****...

ustfdes

iTrader: (5)

get rid of it's stock heads and drop it in there then

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

Naw man, the maxima is my DD. My 240 is what I'm making fast...

ustfdes

iTrader: (5)

ya, that was "helps". what a tool.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

didn't he have a 30psi turbo maxima too?*or was that someone else?

jonmandude

iTrader: (1)

Damn Matt you have gotten grumpy. Why all of the hate towards noobs? You make suspension parts for these cars. No one else thought it was worth it until you thought outside the box and did it.

To the noob question. Everyone asks this when they first get a Maxima. We all fall in love with the car and then see similarities to the fabled Skyline. What Matt said is spot on, but he could use some tact. Bottom line if you want a Skyline, get a Skyline. It will be cheaper and better in the long run. If you want a unique Maxima, then do something unique but do it knowing that it will still only be a Maxima and still not worth the money invested, this I know too well.

I love these threads. A noob asks a question that has been asked too many times and the OG slapps him down and then others jump on and gang rape him. So much drama.

And for the record Trans Ams have always only been RWD. There was never a Grand Prix Trans Am. There was, however, a Grand Am that is FWD.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

I'm not grumpy. just realistic. unfortunately for your guys, reality bites. the real world is a cold hard place.

be imaginative all you want. more power to you if you build something. be more than me. do more than me.
but don't come on here and ask questions spouting terms you doesn't really understand and trying to play them off like it's plausible. that's just dumb and makes the poster look like evn more of a tool.

First, the technology (composite body panels, tube-frame chassis, variable vane turbos, $4000 aftermarket ECUs, etc) he's talking about is the stuff supercars come from. NOT beat up, warmed over 15 year old family cars.

second, the engine swaps he's referring to are the same things we all slap the usual n00b for. "can I put a VG30DETT in my Maxima?" Hell that engine will bolt right up compared to the VR38DETT!!!

stop posting and think for a while. put a cork in your bunghole to stop diarrhea of the fingers until there's some thought put into the actual practicality of what you're thinking.

Fit VG30DE heads on a VE30DE? suuuure. they're both 4 valve blocks and have the same bore/stroke. one's a lubed timing chain, the other is a dry belt. more work there than just building a VE to make the same power as the VG.
they use the same block and rods. the VE heads flow a bit less, but with some port work and the right choice of pistons, intake, and exhaust, the VE can make the same power as a Z32 engine...

I'll stop wasting everyone's time, but at least think about the point of discussion here... the guy's trying to get us to tell him how to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. just buy the damn silk purse instead! You'll have better results with less effort and cost. And done right, it'll look cooler, perform better, and generally be the envy of more people than if you'd warmed over a poor old Maxima and turned it into a circus freak.

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

tryin new things is ghey thats why I never try new things because I'm homophone

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

lol, it was just an idea of mine. I won't actually attempt doing it because I've moved on to rwd cars. I know that the vg has a DRY timing belt and the VE has a WET timing chain. Wait, you said that they have the same block, so it IS possible to swap everthing over to the fwd block? Also, if they have the same block, then the vg30de would bolt up to the maxima x-member, right? So why would I want to swap out the block? I wouldn't if the blocks are the same.

Not like I want/need more power, but the VG obviously has more power potential than the VE.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

I should clarify that... the blocks are similar but they're not the same.

they use the same bore/stroke and have the same bearings and connecting rods. the heads look very similar off the car, with the exception of the front end fot he timing chain/belt.
but the VG30DE cams are noticeably different and the VG30DE has oil squirters and many other small changes. I'm not sure if the heads would bolt up or not. but there's no real need.
since they're both VG-based blocks, it would be easier and more economical to swap the entire engine instead of just the VG-DE heads. but that gets into a space issue. the entire reason they designed the VE was to make a DOHC VG-based engine that would fit in the Maxima's engine bay. the VG-DE is too big in several directions.

TimberJon

iTrader: (2)

Thank you. I have been planning and researching design and technologies for my project since 2001. I have spoken to numerous structural engineers and have alot of notes and gained insight. I even MIGHT be getting some CAD on my vehicle from some resources. That will be the capper.


In my experience, nothing is impossible, only improbable, but it depends on what side of the line your standing on. If my boss came in today and told me "we need to redesign the 9xxx sump" I'd fall over and die saying its impossible! He would tell me what Chevron or whoever wants and we would sit down and discuss the current design, any flaws if applicable and start outlining concepts and solutions to get what we want. Same crap the Auto engineers go through, and I'm Six Sigma certified, like my boss. We arent actually a Six Sigma company, and don't produce enough products to meet that classification, but we're still trained at that level. Its comforting being able to follow a formula and leave out as little as possible when it comes to designing or engineering something.

SO! I sit down and design. Ask questions, I don't expect even a 10% return. If out of 20 replies, someone points out something that I didnt think of, my thread was successful right there.

TimberJon

iTrader: (2)

Well thanks for all that info. Im sorry you had to type it, because I already know enough about standard turbos and their actuation, Etc...

I clearly stated VGTs, theyre much different, and maybe actuate in the same way. They increase HP gain while decreasing almost all lag. First vehicle this has been fully tested in recently is the new type 997 Porche 911 turbo. Didnt used to work so well in the past because of heat problems and probably other design flaws. But today, engineering and materials is a little more advanced.

THIS is the type of turbo im asking about, but since I asked, have already found out alot more myself. So I'll just share with the people who think Im going to try to upgrade my car with 1990-ish parts and processes. Wake up people!

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/08/...geometry-work/

Animated GIF of the VGT Vanes moving
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22873

jonmandude

iTrader: (1)

This is one that really bothers me. There is no such thing as a FWD block. There is engines, period. What wheels they drive has nothing to do with the engine only what transmisson is bolted up to it.

And Matt I see your point. I was only trying to make light of the fact that noobs get slammed pretty hard for these noob questions. They are young and curious, nothing more.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

the reason that I stated the AWD stanza is that it
a: shares the trans with the VG
b. was available in the US
c. the fWD shares suspension with the 3rd gen so in theory should be adaptable to AWD.

I never seriously looked into it, as there are plenty of AWD cars that can be bought cheap and made fast on the cheap.

Dhunterx

iTrader: (6)

Would it hook up properly though? It was the same trans, but diff engine, so there might be some issues.

Alex_V

Yes there is a such thing as a FWD block. Try putting a maxima 3.5L in a 350z and then tell me there isn't.

The nice thing with the VQ's is theres minimal differences between the RWD/FWD blocks as far as the long block goes, the heads are the same (for the non revup Z engines any way) cams, pistons etc etc. The RWD/FWD difference comes in the fact the blocks are cast with different engine mounts.

The VG30E is the same FWD vs RWD though, as you can take a z31 engine and put it in a 3rd gen or a quest. The engine mounts, accessories and everything all use the same locations and mounts. I don't know about the VG30DE VS the VE30DE though, never thought about bolting on in vs the other.

This also tells us you can use any number of trannies with the VG30E, VE30DE, and VG30DE, as they all have the same bolt pattern. Z31 guys need a stronger tranny? Z32 one bolts up. Want to make a RWD maxima with the engine you have (be it VG-E or VE) the Z31 or z32 transmissions bolt up.

So then you have a RWD transmission bolted to your existing engine. What to do next? Start measuring a transmission tunnel....well your going to need to gut your dash as the heat/ac controls in the passenger compartment are where the transmission needs to occupy space. (hmm I wonder if j30 stuffs would work? IE as in the entire system.

Then you need a custom drive shaft. Thats easy usually about $300 any where and done. But the big thing is the rear suspension. Your best bet is to get a whole subframe from a S13/14, J30 or Q45. Then theres reinforcing the entire rear end, to take the abuse of 300+WHP from the rear wheels.

I mean you did a RWD conversion right, theres going to be a very powerful engine under hood to move the car. IE like a VG30E-T making 400+WHP or a VE doing the same.

And now that you have the subframe mocked in there, be very careful about welding the mounts in!!! You don't want to have permanent alignment issues!!

I thought about the RWD conversion when i first got on the org. Then I asked the question, why couldn't have nissan used the J30 chassis and the maxima body? I mean its already has the J30 chassis designation any way >< Id say also use the Z31/M30 platform but out dated swing arms FTL, but they did have the J30 and q45 to parts bin engineer from.

Maybe I'll get a j30 chassis, cut off the exterior and do the same with a 3rd gen and swap the 3rd gen green house and body panals over to the j30, that would probably be easiest

Face it the AWD or RWD conversion is just wayyy to much work. Theres guys road racing, and autoxing the 3rd gens as is. The only problem (FWD ya but lots of hondas still race successfully) is the weight over the front axle. A VQ (3 and 3.5L's weigh the same) will shed MUCH weight off the front end, giving alot more traction and balancing out the car alot.

Sides, a VQ is bolt on compared to all we just talked about in the entire thread. Ive posted some good info and theres been two good dicussions about it, just got to search.

Hmm, my 4th gen doesn't have a title (tho i can get it...) and if I end up parting it out Id probably keep the VQ stuffs....

~Alex

maxmaxima91

the stanza and maxima transmissions are very similar other than the bell housing bolt pattern is different, KA - VG. From what i can find, there never was an AWD stanza however. The only awd cars similar that i can find would be the Pulsar GTIR or the axxes mini mini van. All of these awd transmissions share many dimensions with the maxima 5 spds, Only there a different bell housing bolt patterns and they have a transfer case bolted on.

Darkwing48

iTrader: (1)

This thread is hot, keep em coming

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

Pretty sure B12 Sentra's came in AWD.

Someone converted stuff from it, to a B13:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8bAariYtBw

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

but if matt did all his homework like he usually does, i assume it doesn't.
however adapter plates are made pretty easily. so....

Darkwing48

iTrader: (1)

Wow. Now someone need to do that for a Max

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

It's not from a Stanza or a B12, it's from a Pulsar gti-r. The Pulsar gti-r comes with a transversely mounted SR20DET and AWD. Using a transverse style awd transmission would be the easiest way to convert a fwd car to awd. I've already mentioned the pulsar gti-r drivetrain earlier in this thread.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

This is what I figured. I just wanted to make it crystal clear.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

Why would calling a block, that only comes in a FWD vehicle, a FWD block bother you? I know an engine is an engine and it can be used anyway that you'd like, but car companies typically cast a different block for fwd because the mounts are usually closer to the front of engine and other reasons.