I'm fairly curious.. as I've not seen any results from my searches.

Engines that can fit into the 93-94 SE engine bay, regardless of suspension setup, hood clearance, or front reinforcement/radiator support design..

Can the VQ35HR, VQ37VHR, or VR38DETT fit in there? Mind the above exclusions.

How difficult is it to swap a standard turbo with a VGT [Variable Geometry family of turbos](also called VNT, VTG, and VVT. for Variable Nozzle Turbine, Variable Turbine Geometry, and Variable Vane Turbine, respectively)

Are these electronically or pneumatically actuated and controlled? I assume they are computer controlled, but governed by an independant unit tied to the ECU? Or built-in to the ECU?

I guess the primary question is: Can any of those engines fit into the 3rd gen bay, and can the VGT be retrofitted to any setup? Aftermarket ECU or not?

Motec, Haltech, AEM, Adaptronic, Apex'i, Microtech, DTA to name a few. Would such a turbo even run in tandem with one of these?

 

Just a wondering, would it really matter whether its an 89 SE to a 94 SE? They all got the same sizing dont they? Yes one has a some have VG and some have VE does this all really change much considering you probably have change harnesses and stuff?

 

anything can fit with enough time and money!!!!


Ferrari had a 2.0 V12, hahaaha now thats RPM son!

 

I do not think there is any difference in engine bay size between a 89 gxe and a 94SE....

anywho, you will probably have to hunt down these engines and manually measure them to see if they would fit.
i have seen pictures of a VQ in a 3rd gen, so it "fits"...

 

aside from fitting the engine itself, you need enough room for the manifolds, piping, wiring etc...
plus room to work on it when something breaks

 

1. WTF are you smoking? Let's just play Fantasy 3rd Gen.
2. Where did you see a VG30DETT in a 3 gen? pics to prove it.
3. How much are you really going to spend on a beat up 15 year old car that's worth $3000 at most?
4. Come back to reality.

 

Ok, wiring harness, Hood, Inner fenders aside. (which would give more room)

I've seen hellish piping to close together in some cars that you couldnt fit your hand in to grab a dip-stick.

My concept includes a wide body mod (maybe 4" OD), and extended front with reinforced tubing instead of the inner fender paneling. Outer fenders will be a composite FRP/CF with some kind of latch-down system here and there. Front bumper/grille, Etc.. will be redesigned and custom made to latch to the front as well as provide room for necessary engine components. So the front end will pretty much look like a cage, with all the body panels being able to be rigidly attached and locked down. With a custom designed front, I could probably fit any headlight profile I wish in there.

Easy removal of these components gives access to the suspension and all the inner guts of the engine bay, making work with another engine setup alot easier (in theory). SO! If I cageify a max (with panel and mounting design later on) then I SHOULD be able to put any of the engines I listed in there hm? Might need to raise the hood a bit... which doesnt bother me.

Alot of design work is still needed. Engine CAD models would help me alot, but what I really need is CAD on the bay. Don't there exist scanners for terrain/geometry measure and capture for large objects? I'm not sure if just an actual Photo could be converted by 3DsMax or other software.

I need alot of help Dry-fitting components before I can purchase things.

 

1. WTF are you smoking? Same shet you gave me last time.

2. Where did you see a VG30DETT in a 3 gen? pics to prove it. Maybe I did not and was thinking of another engine individuals here SAID could not fit but other DID prove. Wrong engine?

3. How much are you really going to spend on a beat up 15 year old car that's worth $3000 at most? Why do you care? It's not your money or tax dollars.

4. Come back to reality. Reality is what you make it, not based on what someone else tells you your limits are. Or are you the President of all creative expression?

Being a guru puts you in a position of power because either through screwing books or experience, you know more about this stuff than others. Thats why I come here, because people here have the know. Don't get upset when someone expresses a desire or dream and wants to follow it through because YOU can't do it yourself or because it would exceed anything you have accomplished.

My max just got a new engine and is my daily driver, but it will still be an old piece of junk later unless I can keep it going. But with sound engineering and design it could last a long time and be unique. I'll own another car by then and will send mine to the shop.

Why would you want to halt such a project? Afraid I might steal the spotlight? I don't want the light, I want the car. I want to burn rubber and be proud of my engineering, to give credit where it is due, to shine the light on others and learn from experiences.

On that note, it might be a huge waste of money, but most hobbies are. You aren't being the good guy by putting me down because you know it will be a waste of money and want to save me from the burn later. I know the risks, and challenges that await.

So put something useful in huh? Brian did a good job, because I had in mind all the plumbing but forgot to mention my idea to increase working space. Thanks Brian.

 

Here's something useful. I fit a VG30DE (na) in my engine bay while I was installing my built VE, but there was no room for a transmission and no room to hook up any of the required accessories or even a radiator. the engine is just too damn big and too heavy for this car. (the VG30DE is even heavier than the VE, which is already a beast).

Doing what you're describing to a Maxima is just plain dumb. I like my car and all- it's the favorite car I own, and I have four right now. I've owned about 12 over my life and still like the VE best over all of them.

That said, it's just a plain waste of time and money to try and do something like that to it. You'll make it an undriveable freak of nature that will never handle well, look good, ride comfortably, or be fast. Its simple physics. I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm trying to save you time, money, and hassles.

If you want to do something like this, by all means GO FOR IT. Just don't waste your time on a heavy, antiquated, FWD chassis. you can do a lot more with many other cars. pick the proper platform to do it. Pick up a Z or a S-chassis car. Just don't waste your time with FWD.

In order to fit anything other than a V6 or a small 4 in the Max, you're going to have to completely redesign everything under the hood and unless you're a chassis engineering wizard, that stuff is best left up to professionals. I've got an engineering degree under my belt and am still wary of making geometry changes to the suspension. It takes YEARS of chassis design experience to make those kinds of changes and not ruin the car's handling completely.

I'm not trying to squash or belittle you- just trying to bring my years of experience and some reason to the discussion.

Turbo the VG/VE you have in it, drop an SR in it.. drop a VQ in it... they'll all go in without too much problem. but don't try to put a VR38DETT or anything crazy like that in it. don't waste time spouting off cool buzzwords like composite FRP or CF.. and a latchdown system is only good for race cars that don't care if their bodywork blows off in the middle of the track. I've seen those latches break on a pretty regular basis. prepare to do a LOT of bodywork on the car just to keep it on the road.

It's simply not a smart choice and I'm trying to help you realize that. call it squashing your imagination if you want. I call it Reality.

 

Congrats on your engineering degree Matt.
But just remember... a chemical engineer was credited for the first laptop. (13 lbs)
Not an Electrical Engineer.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I also cannot agree that you're right. Leonardo Da Vinci was one of the earlier "heavier than air" flying device designers. It took a lot of wrongs and then the Wright brothers to produce a plane.

Some people with the right motivation can achieve something that others say its impossible. I say go for it. It's your money, it's your time. But also don't be disappointed if you didn't achieve your goal, because you'll have knowledge and experience. And if you did. You'll have bragging rights.

The proper way to accomplish that these days is computer simulation and modeling. However, it may take you a long while to make such an application, or over 10K to by such software. SolidWorks is a good starting point to see what fits and what mods are needed to make it fit. Then talk to Physics or Manufacturing Engs for the stress concerns.

Since there's skeptics here, the best question to ask is how much surface area is available in a Max. What is the max weight it can handle for the front max. How big is Engine A with Trans A in configuration A. Then you can go on from there.

 

But also remember that just because my diploma says Electrical Engineer on it doesn't mean I don't have experience in other disciplines. FYI, I did 2 years as a chemical engineer before I switched to electrical, and I have a ton of physics and mechanics to boot. I had enough credits for a minor in ME or ChE, as well as another 40 hours or so in industrial process safety and safety management.

I don't know what this guy's got to his name, but I can tell from his posts that this isn't going to happen. Yet another n00b that talks a big game, going to come in here and get all the lemmings wound up on doing some big huge swap or custom tube frame or whatever, and is going to figure out that reality sucks and it isn't going to work and give up and quit.
I'm trying to save him and everyone the hassles.

So in essence, I'm the good guy.

And no, you shouldn't look at it like "how much weight can you fit on the front end". if you're looking for performance- which this guy obviously is from the engines and concepts he's spouting off- then weight is the enemy. instead of looking at a heavy VG-based engine, he needs to be finding ways to lighten the load and remove weight where possible. that means aluminum blocks and RWD setup to make the weight distribution better and the car lighter overall.

Without those things, he's just going to go backwards in the handling department.
stuffing a larger engine in there and being required to make suspension changes also means shorter suspension arms and thus less suspension travel. and the 3 gen max already has crap suspension travel as-is. not much point in exacerbating the problem.
See where I'm going? Been there, done that. Only bad things will come of this.

 

Ouch. You told me.
I, the noob, will now, STFU

You definately have more knowledge than you'll letting on. I guess there's no choice but a new design of a suspension for him, at the least. Maybe someday I can discuss with you an idea of a mid-engine 3rd gen Max. I know keep dreaming.

Edit: I'm not being sarcastic. My respects goes out to Matt and his knowledge because I am a n00b

 

Sounds like a cool endeavor! My concern is will the transmission that you have in there already be able to handle the different engine?

 

Wow, not to add fuel to the fire, but you're sound really sarcastic and that doesn't leave a good impression. Maybe your intentions aren't to do that, but thats what it looks like you've accomplished. If I'm misjudging you, then I apologize. Matt just simply told him that, in essence, his idea is a waste of time. Maybe it wasn't said in the nicest way, but it's the honest truth. He's just trying to save him from wasting time. By all means, however, if he can accomplish what he wants to do, then instant bragging rights for him. The reason I'm siding with Matt, however, is that he has already contemplated swapping other engines, and it just doesn't work. Matt has fabricated a lot of things for the 3rd gens, so several mods wouldn't exist without him coming up with the idea. I can't speak much with regards to complex mods like this, I only know so much, hence why I keep my tongue in check.

Personally, what I would love to see? Someone sticking the VG30DE heads on a Maxima VG30E. If someone can figure out a way around the water routing issues, then THAT is something worth accomplishing.

 

the real point of what matt has said is that even though you CAN find a way to accomplish it... because anything CAN be accomplished, that the car will actually drive worse than it did as a stock 3rd gen... thus negating any bragging rights. Sure i can cut my springs in half and have the "lowest riding 3rd gen ever" which will be all fun and games until i scrape my oil pain until a hole develops, i lose oil pressure, and seize my engine. Yes i will have the lowest 3rd gen ever, but it'll have a locked engine so it will be worse off than before.

 

This has been an entertaining read, thanks everyone.

 

my point exactly

 

No, by no means I am sarcastic. I know Matt has more knowledge than I, and maybe you do too. I lack knowledge of the 3rd gens, that's why I'm here. But I'm serious about a possible mid engine Maxima as a mod. If Matt or any knowledgeable person thinks it can be done. Some day, someone will attempt it.
But until I get at your level of Maximaniac, I have no right and will not insult someone's intelligence of a Maxima, and I respect the community's help and input.

 

By no means do I have any extensive knowledge either, I was just trying to clear things up. No hard feelings bud. If I had all the money in the world, I'd want an AWD Max.

 

also

 

i feel like i am reading a soap opra. drama drama drama. mad props to matt93se though. he does seem to have levels of knowledge that should be respected. a 400 sb would be cool on a honda pilot too but but by the time correct adjustments were made you would have a very advanced sand rail. but lets just keep the peace.

 

No drama here. Some long time member cannot help but feel that sometimes there are people who think they know it all. Search "Corey Blade." I was new when he went out. He annoyed to many member here. I just wanted to separate myself from the likes of him.

 

yeh. some people just cant seem to wrap their brains around reality.

 

it's no tougher than most. just think outside the box
think Stanza

 

Stanza's came AWD? The only other AWD car sides the GTR I can think of is the Pulsar.

 

wow. i had no idea the STANZA came in AWD. my Max as of now is stock and it will smoke the tires. man if IT was AWD............................................... ....................... hu.....what. oh yeh . man it would rip.

 

And AWD 3 gen would be cool.... BUT..

Think about all that entails. (I've done the math already. )
remove engine and all wiring.
remove crossmember
cut off factory control arm mounts because that's where the transmission needs to be.
oh look! now you have nowhere for the front control arms or steering rack! :doh:
spend days/weeks/months trying to figure out what front suspension will work that's strong enough to support the torque of the front axles driven, but has the proper geometry to fit in conjunction with the factory frame rails (or what you can fabricate) and the new front subframe you're going to have to make.

And while you're building a subframe to hold the engine and suspension, be sure to factor in where the steering rack is going to go...

once you've got the engine mounted, now you have to get the transmission in place. since it's AWD and bigger, you've got twice as much work to do... chop the firewall and dash guts up and fabricate a tranny tunnel.

now you've got to make sure the shifter lines up (shoulda paid attention to that when you were figuring out where to put the engine!!)
get the shifter and linkage figured out, do some quick hydraulic plumbing for the clutch. hydraulic clutches make this simple work. just run a flexible SS line and you're done.

Now you have the rear suspension to figure out. solid or independent axle? rear subframe? Is the body of the Max strong enough to bolt anything to that puts power to the ground? easiest thing is to to rip apart a J30/Z31/Z32/S chassis rear subframe and make it fit under there.. then make some struts/springs/shocks to fit.

now make a custom driveshaft.

Figure out brakes and plumbing.
figure out wiring. that will be longer than the entire list above.

get it running.

Sort out the 10,000,000 bugs in your design.

throw it all away and start over a time or two somewhere in the middle of the above list.


probably a few things I left out.
Sounds easy, eh?

 

Tube chassis, awd setup with whatever of motor, maxima body panels.

Done

Or Take and R34 4-door swap the maxima panels along with the ****ty headlights. That might be easier.

 

Or just buy a G35X or R32 GT-R or 350Z or TTZ or S14/Silvia and have the performance and handling you were going after for much lower price.

 

Hey hey,..no stanzas in my Maxithread!

Anyways. Thanks matt for your excellent resume. I also worked in a chem lab, Program and Op CNC lathes, and Engineer products for secondary containment, major oils and the like. While I don't have much experience here or there doing all these things, I love to learn from other peoples mistakes. A guy once told me a RWD conversion is a terrible idea because he had a local shop do it to his Trans Am, Real good pick there for a 10K mod.

I love the Maxima chassis. Fact is, I don't need a rear seat. I like the driver side and the exterior look, and won't mind anything else changed. Like I said, I plan on redesigning the entire front end. Taking hints from other well-engineered cars 2005+ models, I can see how frame management and bracing works well to counteract the torque traveling to the rear. Yes rear, It will be tough RWDitizing the max but not impossible. AWDitizing the car would probably be more difficult. I'll get extra room in the front by moving the reinforcement bar forward, and getting rid of the radiator support, redesigning that as well. The whole front end won't be accident proof, but might be a bit stronger while being lighter. Changing out the old-school suspension setup for better and lighter components will free up much needed weight. No stage will be easy... this i recognize. But I have analyzed and re-engineered alot of things, as well as improved based on observations, creativity, and what the men in white coats call mechanical aptitude. It will probably take me still yet a long time to learn how turbos and engines are affected by different volume intakes and exhausts and things, but I will get there. I have self taught myself many things already.

Anyways, I said I would free up space in the engine bay. So height wont matter, and I will probably gain width. Im not looking to put the latest GT-R engine in my max because thats not "realistic". Actually, I like the setup and power, but dislike the turbo setup. Probably works REALLY well, but it sill still be the first article production vehicle.. and I'd rather wait for probs. The latest maximas have not really been of the finest quality and I don't believe that the 3rd gen was engineered in a premium fashion.

Do 3rd Gen chassis twist easily? It may be subtle but I cannot tell if there is any tweak to mine or my wifes. It might be that they just used thicker and more robust components back then when metal prices werent such a big deal.

 

Yea past all the electrical stuff. At least if done properly and planned right, oxy-free copper wiring would be used throughout, or its equivalent to mitigate corrosion. It will be quite a project, but Don't have anything else planned for future cars. Will get a Lexus LS so I won't have to worry about fixing things very often, while I work on my max. Probably won't burn a GT-R but might be the same weight or less with more whp. *shrugs*

Ask the Tractor racers why they did it.

 

King of crushing Hopes and Dreams strikes again. I realized, that it would be SUPER costly and downright outrageous. Hence why I said "if I had all the money in the world." But I don't, so my max is just going to be a lightly modded DD, and I'll worry about the fun RWD platforms later. Great insight though, I knew it would be a lot of trouble, but never knew the details. Great read.

 

ummm.....
TA's are rwd....
....
....
yeah...

 

Prolly meant the Grand Prix Trans Am, the 6 cyl supercharge fwd one. I dunno the proper name, I'm not intune with domestics lol.

 

So, when the hell will we be able to legally import and drive R34 AWD Skylines (sedan or coupe)? That would fix all our problems.

 

THAT ONE, i concede.

anywho, are we totally off topic, or what? has this thread taken a total left turn, or are we just totally rambling about what can/can't be done to a maxima?

as far as the car goes, you can pick one up with a trashed engine or tranny for $500 or less, with a decent body. sounds like a do whatever you want project car to me. I love my max, and would love to have it perform better, but more power to anyone who can modify the maxima and make it better for them.(y'kno, whatever makes you happy.)

 

My point. Domestics = bad platform to RWDify.

 

Yup, that should fix all our problems..

 

Just get an engine and transmission from a pulsar gti-r and make an awd maxima. Stillen sells the conversion kit.

 

Not worth the effort. If you want more power, the best way is to whack on a turbo like I did. My VG is still stock (with the other VG30E upgrade still to be completed) and with 11 PSI, I'm having some fun with it.

What the hell? I've never come across such an advanced turbo. Dude, all you need is air to be forced into the engine with reasonable efficiency. I'm running a Garrett GT35R in mine with a 0.80 compressor housing. It lags up to around 3000RPM and after that, the fun begins. At the moment, it's more of a top speed machine but I hope to resolve that with a bit more acceleration once my other VG is completed and experiment with different turbine sizes.

They can be electronically controlled via a wastegate solenoid which regulates the amount of air to the turbo's wastegate valve. Factory fitted turbo vehicles have the ECU govern it so that it doesn't exceed a certain amount of PSI. If the turbo setup is modified to put out more pressure, the ECU then cuts out the fuel instead. Hence why fuel cut defenders such as the one from HKS are on the market, to defeat this and allow the extra boost to be taken advantage of.

Another means of electronic control is with an electronic boost controller or with certain aftermarket ECU's which can actuate a solenoid in a pulsing fashion which can also regulate boost pressure as described above. This way, you can effectively dial in or out the amount of boost you desire at the time without having to make any mechanical changes to your turbo setup.

Alternatively, a turbo can be controlled strictly pneumatically with an appropriate wastegate which can have its spring changed to suit a different target PSI. This eliminates electronic control but also eliminates any flexibility.

Anything can be made to work with anything if you're prepared to spend the cash. There are always trade-offs in the process though. Be warned. MoTeC would be the best choice (I installed the MoTeC M800 in my Maxima although a MoTeC M600 would be sufficient in a simpler midrange performance setup) but Haltech is a good alternative. I would not touch Microtech with a 10ft pole, however. They're horrible at keeping a consistent tune, particularly for cold starts. Their feedback systems in their design are atrocious.

Anyway, whatever you decide to do, think about it long and hard. Do what I did ... about one year's worth of homework in total before you even remove one bolt off your vehicle.