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rebuilding heads, should i replace the piston rings

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Old Mar 28, 2012 | 11:54 AM
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rebuilding heads, should i replace the piston rings

i bought my 91 maxima se for $900, about 5 years ago. 2 years ago i put $1000 dollars into it. new struts, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, timming belt, water pump, cv shafts, and brakes. i didnt replace timming belt tensioner. 2 weeks ago belt tensioner seized and broke timming belt.
commpression tested and found cylinder 1 and 2 no compression. just got heads rebuilt but not installed yet. should i replace piston rings as well? i have 212000 miles on odometer. this is a different odometer cause when i bought the car the odometer didnt work. no idea how many actuall miles are on the car. i love this car, willing to throw more money at it to keep it going. any ideas? or suggestions?
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 12:15 PM
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I dont know alot about the VG, but if its not too0 difficult to pull the pan, I would do rings and bearings. Should be able to roll new main bearings in without pulling the crank. Just replace with fresh bearings of the same size.
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by asand1
I dont know alot about the VG, but if its not too0 difficult to pull the pan, I would do rings and bearings. Should be able to roll new main bearings in without pulling the crank. Just replace with fresh bearings of the same size.
good idea, didnt think about crank bearings. thanx.
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by foxfan421981
i bought my 91 maxima se for $900, about 5 years ago. 2 years ago i put $1000 dollars into it. new struts, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, timming belt, water pump, cv shafts, and brakes. i didnt replace timming belt tensioner. 2 weeks ago belt tensioner seized and broke timming belt.
commpression tested and found cylinder 1 and 2 no compression. just got heads rebuilt but not installed yet. should i replace piston rings as well? i have 212000 miles on odometer. this is a different odometer cause when i bought the car the odometer didnt work. no idea how many actuall miles are on the car. i love this car, willing to throw more money at it to keep it going. any ideas? or suggestions?
I wouldn't touch the rings if I were you, but doing the rod bearings is easy! I wouldn't recommend doing the main that way but it can be done!
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CMax03
I wouldn't touch the rings if I were you, but doing the rod bearings is easy! I wouldn't recommend doing the main that way but it can be done!
If you dont mind why not the rings. ill be in there already and ill have the pan off to replace leaking pan gasket.
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 11:07 PM
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If you replace bearings you must do machine. You can't just slap a motor together without machine work. It will not last.
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 05:54 AM
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^ that.
engines are VERY precise machines. slapping new journal bearings in there would be horrible.
seen many-a-honda killed that way.
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by foxfan421981
If you dont mind why not the rings. ill be in there already and ill have the pan off to replace leaking pan gasket.
Cause you can't remove the piston out the bottom....You must not have a maintenance manual (Haynes/FSM/Chilton) nor does it sound like you hav any experience with motor disassembly/assembly! But you know what, give a shot! You'll learn alot that way forever!
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CMax03
Cause you can't remove the piston out the bottom....You must not have a maintenance manual (Haynes/FSM/Chilton) nor does it sound like you hav any experience with motor disassembly/assembly! But you know what, give a shot! You'll learn alot that way forever!
Reread the OP. Heads are already off. This is the time to do it.
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by akurtzer57
If you replace bearings you must do machine. You can't just slap a motor together without machine work. It will not last.
Not true
This an acceptable practice, done by professional mechanics. As long as the journals are not scored or pitted, replacing with bearings of the same size will close up the tolerances. I've done this myself as a VW/Audi tech.
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 10:05 AM
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At 200k the bore is worn where the rings work, so there is a slight ridge near the top of the bore. If you were to just replace the rings you would not be happy soon after start up. At that mileage the front and rear crank seals have most likely worn a groove in the crank, causing oil leak even with new seals (it can be sleeved). Best advice is to pull the engine and do it right or just slap the heads back on if you wanna keep it cost effective.
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Augustus Maximus
At 200k the bore is worn where the rings work, so there is a slight ridge near the top of the bore. If you were to just replace the rings you would not be happy soon after start up. At that mileage the front and rear crank seals have most likely worn a groove in the crank, causing oil leak even with new seals (it can be sleeved). Best advice is to pull the engine and do it right or just slap the heads back on if you wanna keep it cost effective.
All good points. Pulling the motor wouldnt be much more work, and you should be able to find someone to grind or polish the crank for ~$150.

If you do not have an angine lift, and there is no ridge at the top of the cylinders, rings and bearings is still not a bad idea.
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by asand1
Reread the OP. Heads are already off. This is the time to do it.
Ok pull the pistons then.....Was the OP burning oil before this? If not I would leave it alone....these engine are design to reach 300K!

Originally Posted by asand1
Not true
This an acceptable practice, done by professional mechanics. As long as the journals are not scored or pitted, replacing with bearings of the same size will close up the tolerances. I've done this myself as a VW/Audi tech.
That's true there... but I would guess if he did the mains if the Torque sequence isn't followed doing one at a time if that could affect anything.....and once the thrust bearing is installed would he be able to test it for it's thrust tolerance with the transmission installed....I would do all this outside of the car on an engine stand!

Originally Posted by Augustus Maximus
At 200k the bore is worn where the rings work, so there is a slight ridge near the top of the bore. If you were to just replace the rings you would not be happy soon after start up. At that mileage the front and rear crank seals have most likely worn a groove in the crank, causing oil leak even with new seals (it can be sleeved). Best advice is to pull the engine and do it right or just slap the heads back on if you wanna keep it cost effective.
Well these Nissan and most foriegn blocks don't ever wear ridges in them like our Domestic brands do...almost all the engines I've had apart still had the hatch marks visible on the cylinder walls...I will stress this strongly to the owner: If you weren't burning any oil I wouldn't touch the rings cause they're seated well with each cylinder.....If you want to rering it you will have to deglaze each cylinder and you will be burning oil in less than 50k from now...I would rebore it and install new oversized pistons (I've done this before only to regret it later), so again I'll emphasize if you weren't burning oil leave it alone and fix your heads and change your rod bearings IMHO

Originally Posted by asand1
All good points. Pulling the motor wouldnt be much more work, and you should be able to find someone to grind or polish the crank for ~$150.

If you do not have an angine lift, and there is no ridge at the top of the cylinders, rings and bearings is still not a bad idea.
Good luck I wouldn't touch them unless I know it was a oil burner, then I would be reboring to the next .5mm oversize...
Old Jun 9, 2012 | 03:50 AM
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Thanks for all the input guys. Greatly appreciated. I ended up ordering rebuilt heads. Finally got them and put back together. Snapped the cam gear. Sent them back. Waited for new ones. Got those after only 3 weeks of waiting. They warranted them and reimbursed me for gasket set. They said they forgot to lube the cams. My baby is back together and running better than before. It never burned oil, so I didn't do rings. Installed new harmonic balancer, water pump, power steering pump, and belts.
Old Jun 9, 2012 | 03:54 AM
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I'm now hearing some ticking and what sounds like cam bearing noises. I think the place the heads came from gave the same heads and just installed used cams without checking the towers for wear. Any thoughts?
Old Jun 10, 2012 | 12:32 AM
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Has it fully lubed up? Usually on top end builds it takes at least a hour of running for the top end to fully lubricate with oil. If you turned it over several times by hand you would probably have a less chance of this happening.
Old Jun 17, 2012 | 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by foxfan421981
I'm now hearing some ticking and what sounds like cam bearing noises. I think the place the heads came from gave the same heads and just installed used cams without checking the towers for wear. Any thoughts?
Did you soak your lifters in oil for a day or 2? That's the lifters making that noise..... I just had a new one break cause I didn't bleed them b4 reinstalling them....I'll replace all of them with new ones again and submerge them in oil for about 48 hrs.....
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