hahah too bad u live in CA we could go out ricer hunting

 

I'm confused about some things. You claim to have a dyno, but your Car Domain site has an estimated 210hp listed. You claim to run 14.6s@96mph, but your best is a 14.6@93mph as shown on you site. Anyways, where are all these dynos you've supposedly done? 186hp/197tq would be record for a NA 4th gen without any sort of ECU, especially that torque figure.

The thing about the Cattman headers is the amount of power gained below the curve. Power under the curve means everything in terms of acceleration. The shape of the curve definately looks stronger with the headers and that's what interests me. Hopefully an independent dyno will be done showing the y-pipe vs headers on the same car.


Dave

 

u get 15 hp out peak and an extended power curve, u dont get that with the y pipe, IMHO the long tube headers are well worth it because ur getting alot better air flow starting straight from the block

 

no one has answered my question of whether there's a difference between my y-pipe and nashua's headers vs an entire header/y-pipe combo from cattman. Not taking any sides but its gonna be a b*tch to sell my y-pipe and if i can get remotely close to same results with nashua....

JUDGEMENT DAY!!! POST OR DIE!!!

 

Okay, maybe speedemn just can't read, or isn't taking in what he's reading, but here's what caught my attention, Brian Catts made up this chart from PROVEN DYNOS that are READILY AVAILABLE TO YOU! He has posted many times that you can email him for Excel Graphs that show in detail these numbers.
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!

QUOTE!:

"I'll try to make a table to illustrate this. Numbers on the left are rpms, in thousands. Second column is the budget baseline hp and the third is the Cattman baseline hp. Fourth column is the difference between the two. Fifth is budget y-pipe and sixth is cattman headers. Seventh is the difference between columns five and six.

3.0 92 90 -2 92 94 +2
3.5 112 118 +6 118 125 +7
4.0 123 139 +16 130 147 +17
4.5 142 156 +14 153 169 +16
5.0 153 167 +13 171 184 +13
5.5 153 164 +11 178 181 +3
6.0 137 158 +21 168 175 +7
"
END QUOTE!!

HEY LOOK.. Open ur fricken EYES and read, THE DYNOS PROVE that the cattman headers make an average of 9 horsepower OVER an AFTERMARKET Y-PIPE. holy fricken shizniet, it's really not so hard to read is it? Brian was VERY descriptive and even posted the charts. KEEP in mind this is before ceramic coating, which is a proven way to reduce temperatures at the exhaust manifold as well as increase flow through the exhaust system. I really wish that people like speedemn would read and actually process the information before blah blah blah spitting out all this crap that comes to their mind. Oh, and by the way, for all the people out there speculating, having custom designed headers like these is a STEAL at 750 dollars (not 500 or whatever speedemn keeps quoting). Argue all you want, but these aren't some lame headers that are mass produced to see 5-10 horsepower gains in hondas, these are tested, custom built headers made with MAXIMA owners in mind. Brian has not released a single BS product, and I look forward to giving him my business, as soon as I can afford to.

Now that I've vented my anger that was accumulated from 13 pages of 95% bull, (absolutely not aimed at Brian OR Nasua, or anyone else with a head that is clearly wired correctly, but those who choose to criticize when they have no idea what they are talking about) I will patiently wait for dynos from Nasua, while my decision of who I will eventually upgrade my headers with stands with Brian, who I have no doubt has the better product.

Thanks for your time

And thanks to ANYONE who puts the effort out to make somewhat-quality parts (or high quality for that matter) for my car.

PEACE OUT! Drive SAFE!

 

Forgot to highlight one last thing, from 4/4.5/5k rpm, the cattman headers make 17/16/13 horsepower over the same car with the NON-OEM y-pipe. This is INCREDIBLE, PEOPLE! A N/A 6 Cylinder car should not expect to make ANY MORE than this from headers alone! People expect bolt on's to make insane amounts of power, but the reality is that this doesn't happen in the real world.
If you want real power, bolt ons can only take you so far, F/I or Rebuilding your engine is the only way to make gains like 50 horsepower and beyond
Wake up!

 

Thats great that the ceramic coating keeps the heat down...did you also know that most drag cars wrap there minimal exhuast pipe in exhuast header wrap..now why is this you say.....because they are trying to hold the heat in...as it helps to maintain a high rate of flow. In fact I think the owner of this here maxima.org has his entire exhuast header wrapped...last time I checked his site anyways. In other words lad de fraeking dah the manifold is cooler. What good does it do for me.
Brian brought to the table a previous product with a new coating...the previous product provided crappy results. Also your not comparing apples to apples here..his dyno numbers against the car with the budget y-pipe are for two different cars, two different parts of the country, two different sets of mileage. In the event that cattman had shown a before dyno with an aftermartket y-pipe and an after on the same car with the headers, and made a better power curve then sure I wont speculate anymore....but he put these on a car with a stock y-pipe. Also I will quote from Cattman "Here is a graph of the dynos we did, comparing a stock y-pipe with the Cattman Headers. 97 Maxima 5-speed, 100k miles on a slightly tired engine w/ Cattman intake and catback exhaust. The tested set was not ceramic coated like our production version, which will make some difference due to the thermal containment and low-friction advantages of the coating. Its actually reasonable to pick up 2-3 hp given the amount of tubing involved here."
Thats intersting that he has freakin cattback on this car too.........the budget car he compared his dyno to does not.
Lets see some back to back results same car....then most of us will believe...until then these will be the same new zealand headers emax used with a fancy coating that arent worth the 750 dollars for purchase nor the pain to install.

 

Here is the data in graphical form. I'd love to see what Cattman's headers (and Nashua's, too, for that matter) can do on a MEVI'd Maxima with extended redline.

 

Um, no. Gotta read more carefully

Take 4k RPM's on that chart for example. With the y-pipe the cattman headers made 17hp more than the budget Y. HOWEVER, the cattman baseline was already making 16hp more than the budget car before they started!

Meaning that the budget Y added 7hp at 4k RPM, and the Cattman headers added 8hp at 4k RPM.

Meaning over that chart, the Cattman headers gained an average of -1.5hp. Yeah, the Budget gained more power, espescially in the upper RPM range. Of course these are on different cars, conditions, etc...but, the Cattman Headers aren't providing KILLER gains over a aftermarket y-pipe like you guys are thinking.

 

Let us know when you can have this all arranged and paid for. Thanks!

 

Where did Cattman say that the comparison Y pipe he used as a baseline on the dyno test was a non OEM part?

Here's his quote:

Here is a graph of the dynos we did, comparing a stock y-pipe with the Cattman Headers. 97 Maxima 5-speed, 100k miles on a slightly tired engine w/ Cattman intake and catback exhaust.


I specifically asked him (in his header thread) why he didn't do a third variable of an aftermarket Y pipe dyno run on the same car, to see what the difference of the headers over the Y pipe. Here is the question and response:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by sweetdaddy
Nice looking headers!

Coupla questions though:

- Was the baseline vehicle dyno run done with a stock OEM Y pipe with pre-cats or a Cattman Y pipe? I think what everyone wants to know is what are the gains of the headers over an aftermarket Y pipe alone. If only 17hp and 16tq doesn't look like you get much over a Y pipe alone.

-Does the curved part of the Y pipe that mates to the rear collector hang any lower than stock pipes?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We measured agains the stock Y-pipe because its the only consistent baseline since there is variability between the power and flow characterisitics of aftermarket y-pipes.

I'm not sure if its lower or not, but it doesn't present any clearance issues on my car.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

Is there anything amazing about 16.5 hp over stock? No, it can be done with Y pipe alone here's a guy who got 19hp increase from y pipe
http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/504

I'm not saying it's a bad thing he's going to bat and getting headers on the market for the max. Quite the opposite it's a great thing to have more aftermarket parts. And the headers would quite likely give good gains on a SCed or MEVI equipped NA car, they just don't do much for a one that is pretty stock.

 

Cattman makes a header set..and have been making the y-pipes..they obivously own a car to have dynoed the headers. I do believe since they have these products, they should have no problem testing it in this fashion.

 

Compare the numbers from the motorvate site to the ones in the table. He's using motorvate's non-budget, stock y-pipe, numbers versus the header numbers...

 

yes theres a huge difference, the nashua headers do not have or use the same paths for the air flow, imho, the cattmans will provide better air flow and thus greater power

 

What's your point with the header wrap? The idea behind the ceramic coating is exactly the same, not the opposite, to hold the heat in and maintain exhaust velocity (plus anti-corrosion protection and friction reduction). Header wrap is necessary for race cars, but tends to accelerate corrosion and increase the brittleness of the steel when used long term.

When you say "Brian brought to the table a previous product with a new coating...the previous product provided crappy results", do us the favor of explaining what you're talking about, I haven't the slightest idea. What is this "new coating"? HPC and Jethot have been doing this for decades, its well proven.

Give up on the New Zealand criticism too. You do not, and cannot have the slightest idea of what is behind the specifications and fabrication of this part and why would you be so arrogant to just assume otherwise? Its absolutely baffling.

Its a big and very competitive industry down there, they do damned good work and the results of these headers speak for themselves in my tests, just as they will in the ones that follow.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

You have a car with a VQ30. You can buy a set of headers and arrange the same.

 

theres 7 columns, 2nd and 3rd columns use budgets baseline and cattmans baseline, and the 5th and 6th show the difference between budgets y pipe and cattmans headers

 

Let me clarify some things. The 210hp was what I estimated at the crank. I looked at many other sites before I made mine and most people seem to put up crank #s. So I estimated my 187 at the wheels (at this point in time) to work out to about 210 at the crank.

My pb is actually 14.59 (which is why I say 14.6) at 96.6 (but I say 96) but I do not have that slip scanned yet. I updated the stat page but not the scan page.

I've posted about my dynos in the dyno discussion forum many times because I couldn't make any sense of them either. But since you never looked there, let me summarize (all figures at the wheels):

Bone stock: 175hp, 186tq
Add y-pipe, b-pipe: 186hp, 197tq
Add JWT cone, MEVI: 180HP, 180TQ (lost about 15hp/25tq in midrange and now making peak HP at redline)
Add UDP, changed plugs: 187HP, 188TQ (that TQ # I'm not completely sure about but it's in that area)
Waiting for JWT ECU to see if I can recover from that massive midrange loss.

I agree with the theory that area under the curve is what you want to maximize. But for an extra $500 that you are spending on headers, you can maximize a whole lot more by putting that $500 towards a MEVI... and get a kickass top end in addition to that.

That is why I suggested a header + MEVI test to see if it THEN makes a difference. For all you know, that combination might flop. But then what I would love to see is that combination hold up the midrange if the headers do optimize area under the curve.

 

and ur tellin us no one should waste money on the cattman header because with a y pipe people make 19 hp, when u urself only made 11 with a y pipe AND a b-pipe, when we all know the b-pipe adds about 2 ponies, so the y itself only gave you ~9hp, these headers give u 8 more ponies than that and smooth out the power curve. im not flaming, just continuing our debate, i definately think these headers are giving alot more power than just a y pipe

 

Oh yeah... one more thing... the 14.6@93 that is on the scan page of my site was with y-pipe and b-pipe only.

The 14.59@96 is y-pipe, b-pipe, jwt cone and test pipe (but with a worse 60').

I have not ran at the track with the MEVI and UDP change yet.

 

Okay.

Okay.

Definately strong numbers. I thought you were claiming 197tq with the MEVI and no ECU. Your loss of midrange is pretty substanial. I think I only lost ~13-14fwhp/tq. I haven't dynoed with my JWT ecu yet, but you'll be very happy with the restored midrange power. My car now drives like it did with the US-spec manifold from idle to 5000rpms. After 5000rpms, it's all MEVI. The only thing I miss is that turbo-like surge in power the US-spec manifold had from 3000-4000rpms.

I think with the MEVI or not, the Cattman headers seem to be adding some really good midrange punch and an extended power band. Of course, I want to see a y-pipe comparo and track times too. The thing that's really holding me back installing the rear band header. It looks to be one of the most impossible installs ever. I wish someone would enlighten us to how it's done. Things like remove the side and rear engine mounts and move the engine forward, remove the intake manfold, etc would be a great help, but no one seems to be listening.


Dave

 

Every car is different. If you paid attention to the line before it, my BONE STOCK dyno was 175/186... now what gen 4 VQ30 Maxima on the planet has put down those numbers on the dyno???

I dynoed 186/197 after y and b pipe at a different dyno. I'm sure that the first one was reading high. I doubt that my car was only losing about 7% through driveline bone stock, since I just had to get a brand new tranny last month... so it was already failing.

I COULD use the kind of logic that you use and say that I "should" be dynoing 165hp stock, and with the y-pipe since I dynoed 185hp with the y-pipe, then it gave me 20HP AT THE WHEELS!!!

But umm no...

 

if u say so, but my logic is based on dyno #'s, also i agree with all who think cattman should have dyno'ed with a stock y pipe then with a aftermarket y and then the headers to get a more realistic comparison

 

I included both sets of numbers, the before and after, for both cars. The motorvate #s are extrapolated from the graph, but should be fairly close, mine are from the dynojet tabular printout. Ignoring the rpm numbers on the left margin, motorvate's #s are the first (stock y) and fourth (Budget y) "columns", and the header #s are the second (stock y) and fifth (Cattman header) "columns".

My primary point was that power that this car made after installing an intake and budget y-pipe was not unusual, it was typical, noting also that the power curve doesn't rise above stock until 3500 rpm, and it generates more of a power "peak" than a sustained "plateau" as the headers do (and the Cattman y-pipes as well). I don't encourage comparing the absolute #s between them, but the relative patterns are meaningful, e.g. look how early the cattman headers built and held power.

What was unusual was the "before" run on the Budget car which is strangely weak. I expect any bone stock 5-speed that's running right to make peak power of 158-162 and this car, even with an intake, didn't come close. Something wrong there. I've seen many dynos, and the Cattman car's dyno curve is exactly what you'd expect in terms of shape and the amount of power. Different cars, different places, but there still should not be more than a few horsepower separating the before runs and they should roughly follow the same patterns.

Instead, the Budget car starts out 2hp stronger than the Cattman at 3000 rpm loses that and 16hp more by 4000, is down 13hp at 5000 and drops to making 21 hp less by 6000 rpm. This just doesn't make sense and the margin of difference between the two tests -- the only remarkable aspect of the comparison -- cannot be considered reliable.

The most profound thing you can say about this test of the Budget pipe is 1) that the results were about average for a budget y-pipe, i.e. 10-12hp, and 2) there is no explanation for the wierd baseline dyno run. It does not contradict the fact that the typical y-pipe on the typical car will make about 10-12 hp at the wheel depending on transmission, condition of the engine, and the brand of y-pipe.

Obviously I wasn't present when this test was done, so I've been careful not to secondguess, but it is an unusual result and possibly emphasizes the need to force dyno shops to always perform a minimum of five runs per session to establish a pattern. during the baseline run the car might have been too hot, too cold, the person on the throttle may not have been experienced enough, who knows, but clearly something wasn't right.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

I agree too... and it wouldn't hurt to dyno on a MEVI'd motor too, to see how it reacts with different rate of flow from the MEVI.

For all we know, it could work wonders for MEVI'd motors and take care of that massive midrange drop. If I was closer I would totally volunteer my car.

 

Thanks... the numbers do seem strong, especially until I got the MEVI on... which seems a bit odd since I seem to be burning oil, but that's a whole other discussion. There are no evident leaks and there is just a tad bit of blue smoke occasionally when I get on it. But the oil loss does not seem to be proportional.

I do miss that punch at about 3200RPM with the USM too. But it doesn't take long to get up to 5K+ and put a smile back on my face. The problem is, that when running the 1/4 mile, you are mixed in that midrange in 1st gear obviously, and also in 2nd. It is only 3rd gear where midrange power does not matter and of course I JUST get into 4th before I cross the finish line where midrange is not a factor either.

Agreed... that the cattman does give good midrange power and extends the powerband, but is that doing what the MEVI does (minus the massive power gain when the VI opens) or could it complement the MEVI? The price is substantial enough that someone with a limited budget who could only pick one would pick the MEVI. Unless of course the headers would provide a complementary instead of a supplementary effect (ie, if you get MEVI you get the top end, and then get the headers and nothing changes... vs get the MEVI to give the top end and get the headers to extend that and help the midrange bulk up a bit).

It would be awesome to see an improvement in midrange that these headers could yield for the MEVI's motors. ECU could work to just enhance all of that.

 

Look here n00b, there is no reason to act like a ***** in heat over this. Nobody in this thread has been flaming or derogatory and you being a nobody out of nowhere who just signed up on the forum sure as hell do not have a right to be.

Now if you will let me be civil for a second here, I agree that the data that cattman has provided is very detailed and shows that the gains of the long tube headers are noticably better than the gains from the y-pipe. However that is all quite inconclusive because firstly it was admitted in that there was something obviously wrong with the stock dyno of the budget car. Secondly, the gains are with two DIFFERENT pipes, dynoed in two different countries (temp., altitude, humidity are all variables), on totally different cars!!! Ummm I dynoed 20HP more than a Mustang GT out in Vancouver because his car was running like **** and he dynoed on a 105 degree day whereas my car was in top shape, well maintained and I dynoed on a 63 degree day. YES Dynojet supposedly has correction factors for temperature, pressure and humidity but I have first hand proof that is not all that accurate. I have IDENTICAL correction factors on two different days that I dynoed where the temperature was 30 degrees apart!!! This brings into play yet ANOTHER variable of dyno machine calibration (since we are talking about at least two different dyno machines here).

That is why, as many other people have also mentioned some of what I have said and gone on to say that a proper analysis would be to do a stock dyno (as they have done) and a dyno with their y-pipe, and then a dyno with their long tube headers.

That's why R&D is not cheap. I have always been supportive of Maxima headers before anyone even thought about R&D'ing them. I might appear to be overly critical, but believe me, I am even more critical of my own car with the mods that I do and the measured results that I get back. Even if there are gains, one has to judge whether the gains are worth the costs, because all this is not free. Even if a long tube header shows gain of 5-7hp more than just a y-pipe, is it really worth the EXTRA $500 over just getting the y-pipe?

 

I agree that the numbers from the car on motorvate's site are low on the baseline runs. His car does have 240,000 kms on it. There is no such thing as a 'budget car' - which I have been referring to as well in replies to posts. The car belongs to one of the guys in the Toronto Maxima club and he has no affiliation with Budget Exhaust. The motorvate site as you can see is exceptionally put together and contains a lot of good detail and technical information. I know Frank, who owns the motorvate site and he is as analytical as you can get which is a very good trait to have when analyzing cause and effect.

I too was not present when the baseline run was done, but I know where he had it done (the same place that I got a bone stock # of 175hp/186tq - too high). This place does not normally let the customer dyno the car. So I see no reason for the dyno operator to ease off on the throttle. Also, there would have been multiple runs done, so it is unlikely that every run was somehow botched. There must have been something wrong with the car at that point. It is interesting to note that Frank did run a 15.3 bone stock so it was not in all that bad shape. High mileage is the only tell-tale sign of any loss in performance.

His numbers after installing the y-pipe do seem to give quite an encouraging gain (19hp peak gain, 31hp gain at 6000rpm). Now I am not sure what other variables were changed here, but I can assure you that Frank would keep as many variables as possible, constant. From personal experience, the little details like an oil change will not really affect dyno results.

But on HIS car, that is how it reacted to the Budget y-pipe mod. There is no arguing that. On another Maxima that was dynoed on the same day as he did his baseline dyno, and then got the y-pipe and did a dyno, he might not have had the same 19hp (31hp at peak) gain. Every car reacts differently to the same mods which is why you cannot compare two different cars, in two different countries, dynoed on two different machines, at different times. That would be very poor statistical analysis.

Maybe Frank can jump in on this thread and shed some light on the dyno runs that he performed.

 

I know your all having fun fighting about headers, power curves, and dynos ... but where did Nashua go?!

 

where's your dyno's?!

 

Sorry guys, Pete did not show up today. I PMed him and I did not get a reply yet. Hopefully, everything is Okay with him. I am sure he will come here and explain what happened.

Sorry again guys. I am more anxious than you.

Nashua.

 

awww... u need to keep tabs with these guys, like cell phone tabs, not just PMs

 

I will call him tomorrow, it is too late for a phone call.

 

u gave him free headers, ur entitled to call

 

I apologize for my vulgarity. I obviously should not be posting when I'm in a certain state of mind (common when I get off graveyard shift) I obviously over-stated myself, and was not trying to pick a fight. My intentions were not to flame anyone, but only to point out people who are using information that seems shifted or strange as fact. You continually quoted the Cattman headers as being 500 dollars, when in fact they are 750, and made other comments that seemed completely out of nowhere. I was only pointing out, as I'm sure others were thinking too, that you seemed to be dazed and confused when you made a few posts, and in the process did a good job of slamming some people. I'm not trying to be uncivilized, but sometimes when people don't read things clearly before they go off on a rant, it can get monotonous to hear the blah blah blah for 13 pages.

As for me being a n00b, I may have just 'signed up on this forum' but am not a n00b who posts random crap out of nowhere. Noone should be 'flaming or derogatory', however anyone has the right to free speech. The length of my membership in this forum has nothing to do with that right. If a moderator feels that I am out of line, I surely invite them to ban me or erase my posts. I may have been strong when questioning your posts, which claimed strange numbers and quoted false information. Acting like a child, and calling names won't help anything, if anything you are only trying to pick a fight.. who cares kid, grow up and get out more. You obviously take things too seriously, and shouldn't hold a forum on the internet in such high regard. I can't even start to say how old it gets listening to biased mis-informed hotheads blow up because of every little thing. I do not think that I myself am excluded, as I may have been a little out of line, and was definately too strong with my post. I'm sure we can all agree that when a discussion gets so blurred and messed up that people are too lazy to read before they post, that it only makes the thread drag on longer. Don't assume that because I had only recently signed up on this forum, that I have not been following it, or many others. I have been into maximas, and cars for that matter for much longer than you may think, and just because I don't spend my life in the forum because I have nothing better to do, such as work full time while going to school, maintaining a healthy social life, and spend time with my fiance. Please grow up, noone 'flamed' you, I was only correcting your mistakes.
Do not try to act informed by stating information that anyone with half a brain knows. Of course dynos are going to be different. Every dyno is different, and it's not just things like temperature, humidity, altitude etc, but also the machine used, the settings of the test, even the type of gasoline that the car is using.
I was trying to point out that although many people make claims of huge gains with their mods, the butt dyno really is generally 75% mental. I do not disagree that the y-pipe is one of if not the best bolt on for a maxima. It opens up the exhaust where it probably needs it the most, and has been proven to show considerable gains. Don't forget that Brian Catts, aka Cattman himself was one of the first people to make available a quality y-pipe for the maxima. Furthermore, there should be no arguement that going further up to the exhaust manifold is the next step in completing any exhaust system. Anyone can see that every intake/exhaust mod for the max shows that the car can really breathe. Why try to argue that more straight through, well designed headers would be final step to completing the exhaust system? Or even starting it out? Now am I trying to say that people aren't in favor of headers? no.. Just saying I'd rather drop 3/4ths a G to start my exhaust out right the first time, just like I'd rather buy nice clothes because they are comfortable, as well as the style that I want to wear. I work my *** off so that I can reward myself with the best I can get. If a better set of headers, or a nicer pair of shoes for that matter takes my appeal, I need not debate with people on a forum before I buy them. I don't live my life through other people, and I certainly do not go crying to mommy when some kid on the internet calls me a 'n00b'.

 

Hopefully someone will flame you pretty soon. A B-pipe adds more than 2hp, especially when you already have a y-pipe. Also speedemn's numbers must be wrong cause there's no way in hell he's getting 175hp bone stock...

 

And the battle continues. Cattman I'm not calling your coating new. I'm saying its a previous prodcut coated with somethign different then before. My comments of the header wrap were to the person who was talking about the ceramic keeping the heat down yada yada yada. Plus you really havent discussed that I have seen please excuse me if I missed something. The physical changes you have made to the product other than the ceramic coating. I'm sure new zealanders can pop out some great parts.......................but as you will agree emax ordered a set...............with not so good results. Your picture represents the same design in form, with a ceramic coating. Thats my concern.


Jeff92se-I'd love to do this test for the org........can I borrow some money?

 

I couldn't imagine how anyone could install this without lifting the engine. Just getting the y-pipe off of my car was a challenge.

 

i think moderators should clean this post up or people should stop posting crap and take their fights to pm's. this is obviously a thread everyone wants to see results for and sifting through all the bs is annoying.

 

i know it adds over 2 but still that was to give him the benefit of the doubt that his y was giving him more horsepower than he and we KNOW to be true which is not very much when the dyno is only +11 tq and +11 hp over baseline