Just to make sure we're on the same track, headers etc. are suppose to give us power, NOT looks! Yes, looks are important only if you go for shows etc....I mean, who really gives a **** how they look under the hood as long as they perform well. From what I've been reading so far in this entire thread, it seems as though the majority of you is concerned with the looks of the damn headers more than you are with the actual gain-in-power results that they are suppose to provide!

 

dont confuse the looks of the headers with the design of them.

 

Um, i do... i would rather have a shiney pair of headers that make power instead a set of ones that look horrible, and like they were randomly thrown together.

 

...random sucks! I'd rather have ugly @ss headers that last a very long time and give more power than any other headers that suck, "but they're so shiny and nice and omg I'm a woman...plz!". Before you know it, you'll be washing your exhaust every other weekend and scubbing those hard-to-reach places on it with a toothbrush...so come on!

I leave you with this:

 

thanks for calling me a woman i said i would rather have good looking headers that make power, not shiney stuff that is useless. also i said look horrible and LOOK thrown together... didnt say they were inferior in making power.

 

Okay, this is one of the most rediculous excuses I've heard. Ummm...if it's so important for you to post the numbers, have them faxed to you. It is the technology age, ya know. You're making you company look worse and worse by the moment and the swing is definately in Cattman's favor. Empty promises will never get you clients.


Dave

 

No need to wait, its finally dawned on me that it didn't make sense to put the sensors in the header at all, since the two "extra" ones need to be positioned behind the cat to register a difference anyway (and avoid setting off a CEL). Its just a matter of welding two O2 ports on the mid-pipe (just one if you have a Cattman mid-pipe, since we have one already) and extending the wiring of the O2 sensors back far enough to reach their new ports. Order away, what we've got now should work just fine.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

dam this is getting interesting. Nashua, u guys could atleast post numbers or just some type of feedback on how these have worked for u and post pic of graph later. I mean we'll still love u for trying to help us out even if they dont do as much as we hoped. Its the effort that counts, gains just brings customers

cattman, was yours dynoed? if so how much gains are we talking?

 

or just buy this Honda for 10,500.00 and be done with it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6254

 

hey smart a$$ i like the look because thats all thats in this thread, read the other thread that says what power they put down and next time u call us a woman think about how you look talkin smack to people who are all about the same thing as you haha (ps, no harm intended with this post)

 

__

 

Agreed!!!!

Numbers are numbers and you can't memorize them Nashua?

These headers probably haven't added more than 10 to 15 HP either.

 

Give us the dyno shop's number. I'll arrange to have the graphs emailed to me. Then I can ask someone to host them. Have we seen pics of these headers yet?

 

HEy i am in the connecticut area about and hour and a half from boston, I have a 97 maxima manual v6 3.0 I would love to test anything you want on the car get back to me.
Standardbyker3@yahoo.com

 

Here is a graph of the dynos we did, comparing a stock y-pipe with the Cattman Headers. 97 Maxima 5-speed, 100k miles on a slightly tired engine w/ Cattman intake and catback exhaust. The tested set was not ceramic coated like our production version, which will make some difference due to the thermal containment and low-friction advantages of the coating. Its actually reasonable to pick up 2-3 hp given the amount of tubing involved here.



Note that we also have, and will share, the table printouts from DynoJet, which provide actual power and elapsed time information at 100 rpm increments. People should be more aware of this data (and demand to see it), because its far more useful than the graphs -- figures like average horsepower/torque and detailed measurements of relative change are much more meaningful than squiggly lines and peak horsepower figures. Plus, its easy to doctor a graph, but somewhat difficult to alter the data in table form (without it being immediately apparent mathematically).

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

Wow, finally a dyno plot... Dynos speak louder than words... Doesn't look like it justifies the price, but then again, it's all relative to what people are willing to spend...

LEMAR

 

Nice, Brian. SO let me get this straight... the "before" dyno is with the following:
cattman intake, stock headers, stock y-pipe, stock cat, cattman catback

Your "after" dyno is with the following:
cattman intake, shorty headers, stock y-pipe, stock cat, cattman catback

Peak power difference: +15HP, +15TQ. Am I correct here?

If so, why not take it 1 step further and swap the stock y-pipe with the cattman y-pipe and see what the dyno reults are. Are you able to do that at all?



At some point, it would be nice to get a MEVI'd car in there as well... but that is not as much of a requirement to validate the product I think. It would just be nice to see if MEVI owners can minimize some of that massive midrange power loss with these headers. But that's the start of another thread altogether.

 

Cattman doesn't have shorty headers. Have you read a single post in this thread. The headers replace the y-pipe...

 

What he means, and what the rest of us want to know is how does just a Y pipe with stock ex manifolds compare to the new header with Y pipe. The (independant tuner)guy with the motorvate.ca site has links of his dyno run improvements of 19hp with a Y pipe alone. This Cattman header/y pipe combo gives 16.5hp gains? Obviously there are testing variables, but so far, at best it looks like a wash on a bone stock Max.

 

Cattman obivously you have put allot of money and time into these headers. However many on this board thought you were bringing something newly designed to the table. Looking at pictures I dont see the major changes in your headers from the new zealand originals other than the new ceramic coating. Based on the results of emax from these headers, you will need to have done more than just some fancy coating to win us over for 750 dollars. I'm not trying to knock your product. But what other changes did you make to these headers to yield these results. Just my 2 cents.

 

i want some dyno plots that were the original intention of this forum catman is just gaining points with everyone...including me, hmmm, some headers are sounding nice right about now

 

He went inside Naushau Nights Header Demo Page and Introduced HIS header with dyno results...

Awesome product & good results u made, you just stepped on this kid Naushas toe's though.

 

and nausha did the same to cattman the last time cattman started a header thread... two wrongs don't make a right, but it's nice to actually see a product and a dyno for once..

 

the forum was started for Nausha (spelling?) headers... i know he was in catmans forum before, we can atleast try to keep this on track

 

I did NOT offend or attacked Cattman's "bought" New Zealand headers. Actually, I referred to his introduction of the new headers in my thread. No hard feelings, you are going to decide what to buy.

Nashua.

 

can't decide until i know your numbers...

 

That's not what he means cause he said cattman headers with a stock y-pipe which is impossible. He's saying to do a cattman header with the cattman y-pipe which is aslo not possible...

 

Actually I read every post on every one of the 12 pages so far on this thread. I did have a brain fart because the last pic that I saw was the shorty headers.

In any case, if the long tube headers are what is giving gains of 15hp/15tq, I don't see any sense in spending $499US or whatever it is on that, when you can get the same gains from a $160US y-pipe alone.

But what I WOULD be curious to see, and what could save these headers would be if they somehow work wonders on a MEVI'd NA motor, since they do not seem to do much on a stock manifold motor.

But I do thank Cattman performance for all the work and effort in trying to develop something new for all of us. But I guess it's true what many guys here have been saying for the longest time - the stock headers are quite open as it is... no real gains from upgrading them. Maybe just a port/polish job to free up a few more HP... might not be worth the money especially to an NA motor.

 

this is quoted from cattman, read this and say g'bye to ur 19hp y pipe, cuz thats not really possible, 19 horsepower was definately an anomally

"I see this test get hauled out periodically. I always considered it a pretty bizarre anomaly -- I mean, 31hp, that's absolutely unprecedented (and, it totally lacks legitimacy as I will explain below) -- but I didn't stop to give it adequate attention, which is a mistake. Whenever there is an anomalous result, the circumstances should be examined in detail, and there are few results more anomalous than this one (i.e. difficult if not impossible to replicate). There is no free lunch, and there are no 30hp y-pipes. I'm not suggesting that anyone is purposefully distorting anything, but there are some weird numbers here which, once explained, help put the wild results from this test in the proper context.

The Budget test car is a 5-speed so I can generally compare with my car. I assume it had some kind of intake, which would put it on a par with mine. 100k miles, ditto.

The first thing to note is that the only remarkable aspect of the budget y results is the difference between before and after. The power levels in the "after" test are, at best, mediocre for a car with a y-pipe and intake. More importantly, for some reason the power measurements in the baseline test are absolutely sick. Something is wierd here. It would appear that either the car wasn't running well when the baseline was run, or its performance was held back (expecially at the end of the run) in some way that didn't affect the "after" test. No other explanation for these kind of power readings.

I'll try to make a table to illustrate this. Numbers on the left are rpms, in thousands. Second column is the budget baseline hp and the third is the Cattman baseline hp. Fourth column is the difference between the two. Fifth is budget y-pipe and sixth is cattman headers. Seventh is the difference between columns five and six.

3.0 92 90 -2 92 94 +2
3.5 112 118 +6 118 125 +7
4.0 123 139 +16 130 147 +17
4.5 142 156 +14 153 169 +16
5.0 153 167 +13 171 184 +13
5.5 153 164 +11 178 181 +3
6.0 137 158 +21 168 175 +7

AVG 130 142 +11 144 153 +9

The two baseline tests should be relatively on par, but they begin on a par at 3000 rpm and then the budget car just goes into the bucket -- something is clearly wrong with the car or the way the run was done. The +31 hp power claim is measured at 6000 rpm, when the power fell off a cliff for some reason. My car's baseline run did nothing of the kind and at 6k, was making 21hp more than the budget car.

Bottom line is, the +31 hp is a meaningless figure because it was derived at the point in the baseline test where the car was either faltering or the driver was taking the foot off the accellerator (look how the budget car couldn't hold power past 5k in the baseline run). Other before/after power margins are also discounted because the baseline run was oddly compromised throughout -- no reason for those low power levels. Whatever the reason for the low baseline run, if the same part was put on a car that, for whatever reason, started out making the power it should, you would not see the same results.

Because I think there was something fundamentally flawed in the budget test vehicle, I will not dwell on the difference in power output other than to note that we were running huge power advantages in that very critical 4-5k epm range.

Conversely, the test vehicle for the Cattman header run performed consistantly with other Maxima runs and norms in both tests, in terms of actual power and the shape of the power curve.

Finally, I'll re-emphasize that I don't think anyone is trying to purposefully deceive, its just that there are good and bad dyno runs, and they can be affected by a whole lot of circumstances. There is nothing anomalous about the test we did on our headers, all the patterns are right and there is no reason the results cannot be replicated. The budget test, is clearly a one-off oddity. No one is claiming to routinely get 20 or 25hp from y-pipes and certainly not 30+. The underlying numbers are odd and because it would not be easliy replicated the test is not a legitimate counterpoint.

As usual, I've used a sledgehammer to drive a tack, but hope that this information is useful to somebody.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance"

 

Nismos to the rescue again

 

isn't it fun to inform ppl who dont know what they're talkin about cuz they only know 1/3 of the story

 

i usually prefer to just point and laugh rather than explain possibly video tape as well

 

not a bad idea

 

Ummm thanks for all that jibberish. You didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know. I am way more analytical in my dyno analysis than you are. I can show you the dozens of spreadsheets that I have conjured up from each dyno session, when I compare every little mod, using every possible variable.

I don't know what 31HP y-pipe you are talking about because I personally went from 175hp/186tq to 186hp/197tq with my Budget y-pipe (that looks like 11HP to me). Peak gain was about 15-18hp or so at the wheels.

So as I was saying, in case you didn't get it the first time: 15hp from long tube headers that cost almost $500 really give NO gain over just stock headers with any aftermarket y-pipe that costs $160 - $230 I guess, depending on whom you buy from, available to the Maxima market. I had hopes of the headers giving at least an additional 5-7HP... but no such luck even in that respect. Again, I reiterate as many, many others have on the org in the past... stock Maxima headers are quite unrestrictive to begin with.

All this is by no means meant to flame anyone or to slam Cattman's headers. I am just trying to offer up a little dose of reality here. I know a lot of work has gone into them, but it does not seem like they are worth it at this point.

 

u should give it a try sometime its a good idea but im not accountable for anything you do

 

haha i think im gonna, i'll use my dads mini dv haha

 

set it up like crocodile hunter...for ricers. "Crikee...this one right here things his bloody huge wing looks good... lets go in for a closer look *hides behind a rack of fart mufflers* he's a beaut!"

 

hmm, i wonder...when we get dyno's from nashua, i would like to know whats better...keeping my warpspeed y-pipe and adding nashua's headers which would make a total of like 500 tops + the 200 i spent on warpspeed y-pipe or the 750 dollar headers from cattman....if the combo of my y-pipe and headers produce same hp as cattman's headers, i think it would be better (for those that have y-pipe already) to just buy nashua headers since u have to go through trouble of selling y-pipe just to get cattman headers...well just a thought...although the cattman's are ceramic coated which might make some extra improvement. What benefit is there getting cattman's versus jsut buying headers? i guess we'll see when we see dyno but right now our aftermarket y-pipes have to be giving us atleast 10-15 hp right? atleast 10??? so if these "nashua headers" can produce 10-15 hp, that would make good competition...ahh, i know i'm hurting business but just a thought i came up with....

no one's gonna buy my y-pipe for more than 130 dollars so i would rather get the top headers if it would produce about same hp...

 

judgement day has arrived

 

and the results are.............................