Yes knock once again
08-27-2003 | 09:47 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 271
Yes knock once again.. BIG PROBLEM
Sorry to do this guys but i cant seem to find the post in the search
about 2 weeks ago there was a post about replacing your knock sensor, well my new one finaly got here and was just hopping to get the step by step guide again.. it also included which funky adapeter i need to pick up for my socket wrench.
Thanx for the help guys and sorry about the repeated post
about 2 weeks ago there was a post about replacing your knock sensor, well my new one finaly got here and was just hopping to get the step by step guide again.. it also included which funky adapeter i need to pick up for my socket wrench.
Thanx for the help guys and sorry about the repeated post
08-27-2003 | 10:14 PM
#2
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
I keep this handy just for such occasions:
Once and for all: a bad knock sensor WILL NOT trip the check engine light, you must extract the codes from the ECU to determine if your sensor is (potentially) bad (code 0304). Some other hints as to a bad KS: poor acceleration below 3000 RPM (I was getting tired of being left behind at stoplights by Honda Civics).
If you don’t already own a Haynes or Chilton manual, get one. In addition to telling you how to extract the codes and locate the KS, there is a wealth of useful information for the do-it yourselfer. I am very cheap, but this an area well worth spending the $20 or so (I bought mine off of EBAY for $10 shipped). I am not going to encourage your cheapness by describing how to extract the codes. If you are really cheap, you can get that information elsewhere.
A good KS will measure ~550 k-Ohm resistance between the left pin of the KS and ground. You can check the resistance without removing the KS by following the harness to the connector. The connector has two pins, only one of them hooks up to the KS, so try them both. The act of whacking on the KS with your wrench can (temporarily) start it working again, so checking the KS once you removed it may not give you the bad reading you suspect. Hint: the connector is not the green one closest to the KS (1995-1996 models – most likely 1994-1999), it is a few inches closer to the front of the car. A heat shielded wire leads into the bottom of it and there are two wires coming out the top, one clear and one black.
Low cost knock sensor sources: The dealer will charge you $160 or so for the sensor. I purcahsed a Nissan OEM sensor off of EBAY for $90 shipped. I have seen them for as little as $80 and routinely for $100-$110. Search for both “Maxima knock” and “Nissan knock” to make sure you get all the possible matches. You can get a Bosch sensors for $115 shipped from http://www.nissanpartstore.com/nissan_knock_sensor.html I prefer OEM parts when possible and have no information on the Bosch.
Two good article on KS replacement:
http://www.skippynet.com/maxima/knocksensor.htm
http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/507
Modifications to the Skippynet method
The article suggest using a 14” (or longer) ¼” socket extension to reach the KS retaining bolt. I found that using a 9” extension made it much easier to get the u-joint onto the KS bolt. To save money, I used two 3/8” drive extensions with a 3/8 to ¼ adapter, a ¼” drive u-joint and a ¼” 12mm socket (most of which I already had). Skippynet suggest using a 12mm flex socket, but being cheap I used a separate socket and u-joint so that I would have a more useful general purpose tool left over than the 12mm flex socket (better yet, I borrowed the u-joint and saved another $8). A 3/8” u-joint is a slightly bigger animal and in my opinion would make it hard to get the socket onto the bolt. It was not at all difficult to loosen the bolt using this setup. I had also borrowed a 16” extension and found it very difficult to get the socket onto the bolt head (I gave up after about 2 minutes, so it probably could have been done).
Once the bolt was out, I used a magnetic pickup to retrieve it (and eliminate the possibility of dropping it into the engine cavity where as you will find out soon, is not a very friendly place). With the bolt removed, you can pull the knock sensor out of the cavity by the harness and replace it. Next, I put the bolt into the new KS and used a small piece of tape to hold it in place while I stuffed it back into the engine cavity (again to eliminate the chance of dropping it in there).
Now the difficult part: I don’t see how you can locate the bolt into the hole and tighten it without stuffing your hand under the manifold (and I mean stuff). If you have very large hands, you might try enlisting a girlfriend or your mom as others have done. I was able to get my hand in there and get the bolt hand tight, then it was just a matter of using the 9” extension/u-joint setup again to do the final tightening.
Your hands will get cut up a little doing this, but no worse than I am used to with other auto repairs. Go inside, clean up and put some disinfectant on your cuts.
Update: Others have reported that they used a claw type pickup to reposition the bolt in the KS, get the bolt started in the hole and then use the socket extension to tighten the bolt down.
I was able to replace the KS in both cars in less than 1 hour including test drives using this method. The real key is using the skippynet socket extension method to crack the bolt loose. Once you have jammed your hand into the engine cavity you will realize how difficult it would have been to get a wrench on the bolt and loosen it.
Once and for all: a bad knock sensor WILL NOT trip the check engine light, you must extract the codes from the ECU to determine if your sensor is (potentially) bad (code 0304). Some other hints as to a bad KS: poor acceleration below 3000 RPM (I was getting tired of being left behind at stoplights by Honda Civics).
If you don’t already own a Haynes or Chilton manual, get one. In addition to telling you how to extract the codes and locate the KS, there is a wealth of useful information for the do-it yourselfer. I am very cheap, but this an area well worth spending the $20 or so (I bought mine off of EBAY for $10 shipped). I am not going to encourage your cheapness by describing how to extract the codes. If you are really cheap, you can get that information elsewhere.
A good KS will measure ~550 k-Ohm resistance between the left pin of the KS and ground. You can check the resistance without removing the KS by following the harness to the connector. The connector has two pins, only one of them hooks up to the KS, so try them both. The act of whacking on the KS with your wrench can (temporarily) start it working again, so checking the KS once you removed it may not give you the bad reading you suspect. Hint: the connector is not the green one closest to the KS (1995-1996 models – most likely 1994-1999), it is a few inches closer to the front of the car. A heat shielded wire leads into the bottom of it and there are two wires coming out the top, one clear and one black.
Low cost knock sensor sources: The dealer will charge you $160 or so for the sensor. I purcahsed a Nissan OEM sensor off of EBAY for $90 shipped. I have seen them for as little as $80 and routinely for $100-$110. Search for both “Maxima knock” and “Nissan knock” to make sure you get all the possible matches. You can get a Bosch sensors for $115 shipped from http://www.nissanpartstore.com/nissan_knock_sensor.html I prefer OEM parts when possible and have no information on the Bosch.
Two good article on KS replacement:
http://www.skippynet.com/maxima/knocksensor.htm
http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/507
Modifications to the Skippynet method
The article suggest using a 14” (or longer) ¼” socket extension to reach the KS retaining bolt. I found that using a 9” extension made it much easier to get the u-joint onto the KS bolt. To save money, I used two 3/8” drive extensions with a 3/8 to ¼ adapter, a ¼” drive u-joint and a ¼” 12mm socket (most of which I already had). Skippynet suggest using a 12mm flex socket, but being cheap I used a separate socket and u-joint so that I would have a more useful general purpose tool left over than the 12mm flex socket (better yet, I borrowed the u-joint and saved another $8). A 3/8” u-joint is a slightly bigger animal and in my opinion would make it hard to get the socket onto the bolt. It was not at all difficult to loosen the bolt using this setup. I had also borrowed a 16” extension and found it very difficult to get the socket onto the bolt head (I gave up after about 2 minutes, so it probably could have been done).
Once the bolt was out, I used a magnetic pickup to retrieve it (and eliminate the possibility of dropping it into the engine cavity where as you will find out soon, is not a very friendly place). With the bolt removed, you can pull the knock sensor out of the cavity by the harness and replace it. Next, I put the bolt into the new KS and used a small piece of tape to hold it in place while I stuffed it back into the engine cavity (again to eliminate the chance of dropping it in there).
Now the difficult part: I don’t see how you can locate the bolt into the hole and tighten it without stuffing your hand under the manifold (and I mean stuff). If you have very large hands, you might try enlisting a girlfriend or your mom as others have done. I was able to get my hand in there and get the bolt hand tight, then it was just a matter of using the 9” extension/u-joint setup again to do the final tightening.
Your hands will get cut up a little doing this, but no worse than I am used to with other auto repairs. Go inside, clean up and put some disinfectant on your cuts.
Update: Others have reported that they used a claw type pickup to reposition the bolt in the KS, get the bolt started in the hole and then use the socket extension to tighten the bolt down.
I was able to replace the KS in both cars in less than 1 hour including test drives using this method. The real key is using the skippynet socket extension method to crack the bolt loose. Once you have jammed your hand into the engine cavity you will realize how difficult it would have been to get a wrench on the bolt and loosen it.
08-28-2003 | 09:10 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 271
I spoke to soon.... the ECU is not giving me any lights and i am getting code 0505 from it... BUT when i tryed to start the car the engine stalls!!
If i give it some gas the engine stays on but shakes ALOT!!...
Also when i trun the key to position 3 i get a clicking sound from the engine.. i remeber it clicking once or twice when you turn to position 3 but this never stops.. it goes on forever..
Please help i need to drive this thing but am woried to hell of braking it even more LOL ;-/
If i give it some gas the engine stays on but shakes ALOT!!...
Also when i trun the key to position 3 i get a clicking sound from the engine.. i remeber it clicking once or twice when you turn to position 3 but this never stops.. it goes on forever..
Please help i need to drive this thing but am woried to hell of braking it even more LOL ;-/
08-28-2003 | 10:41 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 271
just did some test... and i dont get it?
here is what i did
i took the new knock sensor out and put in the old one.. not screwd in just sitted in the harnes.. i tured the key to position 3 and i got the 0304 code back again... then without resetting the ECU i put the new sensor in and screwd it in.. i double check to make sure the 0304 code was still there and it was. so i started the car up in "safe mode" BUT i still got the stalling and shaking!!?!?! i thought safe mode bypassed the knock sensor and did the safest way... ??
here is what i did
i took the new knock sensor out and put in the old one.. not screwd in just sitted in the harnes.. i tured the key to position 3 and i got the 0304 code back again... then without resetting the ECU i put the new sensor in and screwd it in.. i double check to make sure the 0304 code was still there and it was. so i started the car up in "safe mode" BUT i still got the stalling and shaking!!?!?! i thought safe mode bypassed the knock sensor and did the safest way... ??
08-28-2003 | 10:55 AM
#5
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
I am not clear on the problem, but the KS needs to be grounded to operate correctly (which means the metal body needs to be touching the engine block - which is what the KS bolt does). Without being grounded, the ECU should diagnose a KS fault and use the safe table. You can (temporarily) ground somewhere besides the black hole where it normally sits to see if the KS error code goes away.
A bad KS will not give you the stalling and shaking that you are reporting, it diminishes the performance of your car but will not damage your engine. Many people drive around for months or years with an unkonwn bad KS.
If position 3 on your ignition is the last position (start the car), then clicking (as opposed to starting) usually means you have a bad battery (not enough amps to trip the relay to the starter motor). If it is clicking while the engine is running, then I am not sure what you should do.
This does not sound like a KS problem (even though you may have had a bad KS).
A bad KS will not give you the stalling and shaking that you are reporting, it diminishes the performance of your car but will not damage your engine. Many people drive around for months or years with an unkonwn bad KS.
If position 3 on your ignition is the last position (start the car), then clicking (as opposed to starting) usually means you have a bad battery (not enough amps to trip the relay to the starter motor). If it is clicking while the engine is running, then I am not sure what you should do.
This does not sound like a KS problem (even though you may have had a bad KS).
08-28-2003 | 11:09 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 271
Humm i can start the car fine... the battery seems to have the power... its once its started it stalls... unless i give it gas right off the start then i stays on but shakes.. the key in position 3 does not start the engine it just tures all you electrial on.
i only put the KS without screing it in just to get the 0304 code back so i could test it.. but besides that it has always been bolted down.
Right now i have the New KS in and the ECU is reporting NO errors but the stalling and shaking is still occuring?
i really dont want to try but i think if i put the old KS back in it triggers the save mode and will run fine (as fine as you can with an 0304 code)
what seems to be happending is the ECU is running the new KS in "working" mode but it does not seem to be doing anything as the stalling and shaking is occuring??
any ideas?
i only put the KS without screing it in just to get the 0304 code back so i could test it.. but besides that it has always been bolted down.
Right now i have the New KS in and the ECU is reporting NO errors but the stalling and shaking is still occuring?
i really dont want to try but i think if i put the old KS back in it triggers the save mode and will run fine (as fine as you can with an 0304 code)
what seems to be happending is the ECU is running the new KS in "working" mode but it does not seem to be doing anything as the stalling and shaking is occuring??
any ideas?
08-28-2003 | 12:10 PM
#7
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
I do not think the KS is causing your problem. Running with the a bad KS does NOT cause the problems you are reporting. It sounds like a fuel delivery problem (clogged fuel filter). If your problems began after you changed the KS, then you probably broke or disconnected something else while digging around in the engine compartment.
You can simulate a bad KS by disconnecting the KS sub-harness as described in my earlier post.
You can simulate a bad KS by disconnecting the KS sub-harness as described in my earlier post.
08-28-2003 | 12:31 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 271
Well your right... i put the old KS back in and i am getting the same thing...
so now i have a new problem LOL...
any ideas? all i know is that i happend while installing a KS... all plugs seem to be intack..
Some things i noticed that may help...
1) the new KS is back in... the engine does not stall anymore but still shakes ALOT (when bellow 1000rpms)
2) when the car was running well i dont think it dropped under 1000rpms... but now it is and that when its shaking?
3) 93 octain is in there...
thanx for the help so far gansemer
so now i have a new problem LOL...
any ideas? all i know is that i happend while installing a KS... all plugs seem to be intack..
Some things i noticed that may help...
1) the new KS is back in... the engine does not stall anymore but still shakes ALOT (when bellow 1000rpms)
2) when the car was running well i dont think it dropped under 1000rpms... but now it is and that when its shaking?
3) 93 octain is in there...
thanx for the help so far gansemer
08-28-2003 | 02:27 PM
#10
dude, when i installed my knock sensor, i took off my intake..and forgot to plug my MAF back in which cause similar symptoms..and from what ive heard, your car will run shaky for 15-20 mins. im not really sure what to tell you, but i thought id try to help
08-28-2003 | 02:52 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 271
This is so F*cked up...
I did nothing to the car since i last posted a message... reading Charcoal95GXE advice incorrecty i thought i would drive the car around for 15-20 min.. only when i turned the key IT WORKED PERFECT!!!
WTF... i should be happy b/c now everything is working 100% but i blew my F*ucken day on a problem that just vanished into thin air..
Well thanx you again gansemer.. and to Charcoal95GXE for the car fixing advice.. lol
I did nothing to the car since i last posted a message... reading Charcoal95GXE advice incorrecty i thought i would drive the car around for 15-20 min.. only when i turned the key IT WORKED PERFECT!!!
WTF... i should be happy b/c now everything is working 100% but i blew my F*ucken day on a problem that just vanished into thin air..
Well thanx you again gansemer.. and to Charcoal95GXE for the car fixing advice.. lol
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