Took my intake off and went stock.....more power...
05-05-2004, 02:31 PM
#41
I'm not discrediting a damn thing
Ah... what FACTS??? Personal opinion? Sure. FACTS? Not really. I don't have FACTS either. Never said I did
Don't provide a fake dyno. I'd see right though it. Just like your "FACTS" aka *cough* opinion *cough*
That's fine. They are still opinion.
I'm still waiting for that "PRESSURIZING" explaination. Or are you just ignoring that now BOSS? Because you do realize that was the main explaination for going back to the stock airbox.
Originally Posted by BOSS
...no, what's funny is you coming in here, trying to discredit what I said. MaxedOutofCash, myself, and others have simply stated facts - that is, our cars feel noticably quicker with stock intakes.
You come in here and ask me for dynos. Now I ask you for a dyno which does show hp increase with an aftermarket intake. And please don't post BS, because quite honestly I too can produce a fake, hand-drawn dyno (which many of the aftermarket producers do), like custom-maxima seems to have done with their turbo-kit.
What's weird is that just about everyone in this thread agrees about the Maxima accelerating better with stock air intakes, except for you.
I'm still waiting for that "PRESSURIZING" explaination. Or are you just ignoring that now BOSS? Because you do realize that was the main explaination for going back to the stock airbox.
05-05-2004, 03:44 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
sorry, but you can be a real idiot at times jeff.
First off, by pressure I did not mean the type of pressure you're thinking of
. This just shows how narrow minded you are. When I said pressure you automatically assumed I was referring to the kind of pressure found with a turbo or super charger. Again,
Because the stock airbox is narrow and slim in some places, you DO get air sucked in the TB with more PRESSURE. I don't see how you still don't understand this - it is sooooooooooo obvious - you must have had a hard time in school, be it physics or mathematics.
All this sucking done by the intake is analogous to a vacuum that you have at home. Such vacuum will suck air in with much more force when the tubing and its opening is small, rather than large. So, with a smaller tube and its opening, the airflow inside the tube will be at MUCH, MUCH GREATER PRESSURE. WTF is so hard to understand here? Do you really need everything pointed out to the last detail. Please don't come back and say you don't know what I'm talking about because you already made a fool out of yourself. What I just wrote about pressure is a FACT.
Second, I specifically stated in either my first or second post that I (and just about everyone else) notice this “lag”, if you will, caused by having an aftermarket intake. Hmmmm, what else may I be referring to if not the freakin low, mid range???!!!!
First off, by pressure I did not mean the type of pressure you're thinking of
. This just shows how narrow minded you are. When I said pressure you automatically assumed I was referring to the kind of pressure found with a turbo or super charger. Again, Because the stock airbox is narrow and slim in some places, you DO get air sucked in the TB with more PRESSURE. I don't see how you still don't understand this - it is sooooooooooo obvious - you must have had a hard time in school, be it physics or mathematics.
All this sucking done by the intake is analogous to a vacuum that you have at home. Such vacuum will suck air in with much more force when the tubing and its opening is small, rather than large. So, with a smaller tube and its opening, the airflow inside the tube will be at MUCH, MUCH GREATER PRESSURE. WTF is so hard to understand here? Do you really need everything pointed out to the last detail. Please don't come back and say you don't know what I'm talking about because you already made a fool out of yourself. What I just wrote about pressure is a FACT.
Second, I specifically stated in either my first or second post that I (and just about everyone else) notice this “lag”, if you will, caused by having an aftermarket intake. Hmmmm, what else may I be referring to if not the freakin low, mid range???!!!!
05-05-2004, 03:46 PM
#43
another thing is, for us 5 speed guys, the way you drive makes a difference as well. if you drive the same with all the intakes, ur car won't drive the same with a cai opposed to a popcharger/filter. you have to drive the car a bit differently to utilize the "sweetspots" that each intake has. i notice if i launch my car at 1.2k rpm i get a solid launch with the injen style CAI. if i hada hybrid on, id want to launch at a little more like 2k rpm or so to get a solid launch. just my .02 
05-05-2004, 04:03 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 116
Pressure
Well, I think this argument is interesting and I can't wait to try the stock vs. aftermarket intake showdown on my own butt-dyno.
I'm not an expert, but when I was in college I studied with Lockheed Martin designing components for drone aircraft. We found that it is very difficult to produce "Positive" pressure to an engine intake, especially under full load. However, "Negative" pressure could be easily eliminated through increasing aerodynamic efficiency through the intake system, bringing the relative pressure in the intake system to a desirable level of "0".
In automotive applications, the engine intake is usually under some percentage of negative pressure due to restrictions (air filter, complex piping ect.). If you can eliminate negative pressure and at least get the relative pressure inside the airbox to "0" or 1 ATM, then the cylinders will be able to fill themselves with enough air to operate efficiently.
Jim
I'm not an expert, but when I was in college I studied with Lockheed Martin designing components for drone aircraft. We found that it is very difficult to produce "Positive" pressure to an engine intake, especially under full load. However, "Negative" pressure could be easily eliminated through increasing aerodynamic efficiency through the intake system, bringing the relative pressure in the intake system to a desirable level of "0".
In automotive applications, the engine intake is usually under some percentage of negative pressure due to restrictions (air filter, complex piping ect.). If you can eliminate negative pressure and at least get the relative pressure inside the airbox to "0" or 1 ATM, then the cylinders will be able to fill themselves with enough air to operate efficiently.
Jim
05-05-2004, 04:08 PM
#45
I think the best intake is: the stock accordian, then the stock black box, NOT a mid-pipe (i think its a resonator/turbulance thing for the necessary harmonic air flow), then the MAF, then the CAI tube from place racing, then a Filter.
It combines the best of everything and I believe DaveB had and in depth post about it a few months back, either him or that other Dave??? no not chapelle
Ive personally had the Popcharger, it sucked. Then the frankercar, it was ok, but for midrange only and I want more low-end. Now I have the place racing and it is slightly better than stock. And I do sometimes switch up the frankencar and PR. I think people expect too much from them.........
It combines the best of everything and I believe DaveB had and in depth post about it a few months back, either him or that other Dave??? no not chapelle
Ive personally had the Popcharger, it sucked. Then the frankercar, it was ok, but for midrange only and I want more low-end. Now I have the place racing and it is slightly better than stock. And I do sometimes switch up the frankencar and PR. I think people expect too much from them.........
05-05-2004, 04:13 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
IMO, the only thing you can put on your car to get the stock power back is the stock/original/OEM airbox and intake, which our Maximas came with. Intakes give nice growling sounds, be it CAI or regular, but that's about it. It is all a sort of "propaganda". People out there make millions off of us (me too, since I already bought 2 intakes, although I could've made one, I know) by simply putting words like "racing", "performance", and others alike on "performance" products, many of which don't peform at all.
Nissan hired top-of-the-line engineers and spent years developing the 4th gen Maxima and things like air intakes for it, where the material used, the specific curves of the intake, the inlet, the holes, and the entire design overall means everything. I know I am generalizing here, but what makes all of you think that a group of 5 ordinary Joes from California who suddenly decided to make a **** load of money over night have done a better job?
Nissan hired top-of-the-line engineers and spent years developing the 4th gen Maxima and things like air intakes for it, where the material used, the specific curves of the intake, the inlet, the holes, and the entire design overall means everything. I know I am generalizing here, but what makes all of you think that a group of 5 ordinary Joes from California who suddenly decided to make a **** load of money over night have done a better job?
05-05-2004, 04:20 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 116
05-05-2004, 04:27 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,246
yea same thing happen to me...i had my short ram intake on and when i switched back to stock i felt i gain power back but after that i went CAI and i got a little bit more power or stock....so short ram does u no good...it actualy takes power away....
05-05-2004, 05:38 PM
#51
I bought my CAI off of eBay, but decided to make it a HAI.
I removed the resonator and put the midpipe and cone filter on. When I went for a drive as soon as I floored it I felt the power. Stock my car never torqued steered really. After the intake was on, I was slipping the tires a little bit, and had to hang on, cuz the wheel was tugging nicely.
I felt a nice difference in power on mine. I have a ypipe now as well. The low end is still there, maybe not as much, but it still gets up and goes quickly, as soon as it hits about 2,500 RPM it shoots off like a rocket.
No complaints here on my intake. The sound is great as well!
I removed the resonator and put the midpipe and cone filter on. When I went for a drive as soon as I floored it I felt the power. Stock my car never torqued steered really. After the intake was on, I was slipping the tires a little bit, and had to hang on, cuz the wheel was tugging nicely.
I felt a nice difference in power on mine. I have a ypipe now as well. The low end is still there, maybe not as much, but it still gets up and goes quickly, as soon as it hits about 2,500 RPM it shoots off like a rocket.
No complaints here on my intake. The sound is great as well!
05-05-2004, 06:20 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by nismos14
and besides your butt dyno, you can proove that how?
STFU with the proving already you noob.
You expect me to prove it, yet you can't prove shit yourself, that is, the contrary.
so it's like this:
most people here say: "stock intake is best"
the minority says: "nah, aftermarket intake is better. Prove to us stock intake is best"
most people here say: "nah, you prove to us that aftermarket intake is better"
...in the end, both sides don't have a legitimate proof. Don't you think the side, which thinks aftermarket intakes are better suffers more here? After all, that side shelled out hundreds of dollars on a mod which they can't prove outperforms a stock intake in any way whatsoever? ...lol, not to mention being tricked into thinking their car is faster because it sounds meaner. lmao
good arguments on your side nismos14
05-05-2004, 08:01 PM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 204
Excellent Article!!!
Well thought out diagnostic approach with , I would believe, repeatable results. It would appear to be a valid assesment of THAT car, and it has put in question any thought I'd had about an aftermarket intake be it CAI, HAI, or POP.
So who's going to volunteer to duplicate the experiment ????
Who ever does, and does it honestly and methodically, will put to rest any debate over what intake works best and where the deficiencies are in the stock set up.
Any takers???
Well thought out diagnostic approach with , I would believe, repeatable results. It would appear to be a valid assesment of THAT car, and it has put in question any thought I'd had about an aftermarket intake be it CAI, HAI, or POP.
So who's going to volunteer to duplicate the experiment ????
Who ever does, and does it honestly and methodically, will put to rest any debate over what intake works best and where the deficiencies are in the stock set up.
Any takers???
Originally Posted by belosic
05-05-2004, 08:07 PM
#57
i like the negative pressure to normal atmospheric pressure explanation from Belosic. makes alot of sense to me. i was never an engineer but the physics of it makes sense. i forgot that u can have negative pressure compared to the normal pressure of the atmoshpere. i would say that is the best factual proof so far provided in this thread.
but threads liek this have appeared many times before. the consensus everytime has been cai or stock/modified stock for low/mid power increase.. hybrid or pop for High end. let the person pick which setup suits their PERSONAL DRIVING NEEDS better. cause no 2 people drive alike. lets just leave it at that and chill with all the bashing.
in support of the hacked airbox- ive tried a home made popcharger, and the bomz HAI. i used them for considerable amounts of time to know how the car "feels" with them. even though it may be butt dyno. im back to a modified stock intake and its staying this way.
chapelle is friggin halarious.. get the first season complete dvd for like 23 bucks.. madd worth it.
but threads liek this have appeared many times before. the consensus everytime has been cai or stock/modified stock for low/mid power increase.. hybrid or pop for High end. let the person pick which setup suits their PERSONAL DRIVING NEEDS better. cause no 2 people drive alike. lets just leave it at that and chill with all the bashing.
in support of the hacked airbox- ive tried a home made popcharger, and the bomz HAI. i used them for considerable amounts of time to know how the car "feels" with them. even though it may be butt dyno. im back to a modified stock intake and its staying this way.
chapelle is friggin halarious.. get the first season complete dvd for like 23 bucks.. madd worth it.
05-05-2004, 08:52 PM
#58
I'm an idiot!?! Your the one who can't properly describe terms. If you took your head out of your backside, you would have noticed I ALREADY mentioned VENTURI EFFECT. Google that and get back to me okay sparky
EXACTLY WHICH PART OF THE STOCK INTAKE TRACT IS "THINNER"???!?!! I'd really like to know since you'r the butt-dyno and hearsay expert!
I guess all those guys changing to the pathfinder LARGER TB are just idiots also. Because as you know, it has a LARGER opening.
What a tard.
And again, I noticed no increased lag. If anything mine got better.
EXACTLY WHICH PART OF THE STOCK INTAKE TRACT IS "THINNER"???!?!! I'd really like to know since you'r the butt-dyno and hearsay expert!
I guess all those guys changing to the pathfinder LARGER TB are just idiots also. Because as you know, it has a LARGER opening.
What a tard.
And again, I noticed no increased lag. If anything mine got better.
Originally Posted by BOSS
sorry, but you can be a real idiot at times jeff.
First off, by pressure I did not mean the type of pressure you're thinking of. This just shows how narrow minded you are. When I said pressure you automatically assumed I was referring to the kind of pressure found with a turbo or super charger. Again,
Because the stock airbox is narrow and slim in some places, you DO get air sucked in the TB with more PRESSURE. I don't see how you still don't understand this - it is sooooooooooo obvious - you must have had a hard time in school, be it physics or mathematics.
All this sucking done by the intake is analogous to a vacuum that you have at home. Such vacuum will suck air in with much more force when the tubing and its opening is small, rather than large. So, with a smaller tube and its opening, the airflow inside the tube will be at MUCH, MUCH GREATER PRESSURE. WTF is so hard to understand here? Do you really need everything pointed out to the last detail. Please don't come back and say you don't know what I'm talking about because you already made a fool out of yourself. What I just wrote about pressure is a FACT.
Second, I specifically stated in either my first or second post that I (and just about everyone else) notice this “lag”, if you will, caused by having an aftermarket intake. Hmmmm, what else may I be referring to if not the freakin low, mid range???!!!!
First off, by pressure I did not mean the type of pressure you're thinking of
. This just shows how narrow minded you are. When I said pressure you automatically assumed I was referring to the kind of pressure found with a turbo or super charger. Again, Because the stock airbox is narrow and slim in some places, you DO get air sucked in the TB with more PRESSURE. I don't see how you still don't understand this - it is sooooooooooo obvious - you must have had a hard time in school, be it physics or mathematics.
All this sucking done by the intake is analogous to a vacuum that you have at home. Such vacuum will suck air in with much more force when the tubing and its opening is small, rather than large. So, with a smaller tube and its opening, the airflow inside the tube will be at MUCH, MUCH GREATER PRESSURE. WTF is so hard to understand here? Do you really need everything pointed out to the last detail. Please don't come back and say you don't know what I'm talking about because you already made a fool out of yourself. What I just wrote about pressure is a FACT.
Second, I specifically stated in either my first or second post that I (and just about everyone else) notice this “lag”, if you will, caused by having an aftermarket intake. Hmmmm, what else may I be referring to if not the freakin low, mid range???!!!!
05-05-2004, 09:03 PM
#59
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 1,424
IIRC, no intake has increased/decreased power beyond the normal deviation between dyno runs; it'd be damn hard to show an increase/decrease in power from an intake alone.
The only arguments that ever made me consider going back to stock had to do with resonance. No matter how you slice it, it's not going to be something you can feel.
I'd personally go with a CAI every time.
The only arguments that ever made me consider going back to stock had to do with resonance. No matter how you slice it, it's not going to be something you can feel.
I'd personally go with a CAI every time.
05-05-2004, 09:16 PM
#60
My CAI definitely increased my performance. The Butt-dyno told me so, but also when going against my friends car (which wasnt modded either time) with the intake, i could walk him faster than before i had the intake. Yeah a lot of variables involved, but I can tell an increase in power no doubt.
05-06-2004, 03:31 AM
#61
Pizda Boy
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,794
okay, this thread is interesting but it's also becoming a flame war between a couple people...
I asked for your focking opinions people . . . I don't need dyno's and I don't think you should be asking for a dyno unless you got one to back up your "opinion"...
Interesting points in this thread if you just ignore the childish argument between our own mr. moderator & BOSS. . .
Give it up already guys... don't turn this into another useless thread...I think we have enough of these on here lately....
No one wants to see your stupid dynos (which you don't have) . . .
If you absolutely need one, both of you gimme $65 and I'll give you dynos for each intake...
One of you just give up already... and we all know which one should be the smarter one & back down...
I asked for your focking opinions people . . . I don't need dyno's and I don't think you should be asking for a dyno unless you got one to back up your "opinion"...
Interesting points in this thread if you just ignore the childish argument between our own mr. moderator & BOSS. . .
Give it up already guys... don't turn this into another useless thread...I think we have enough of these on here lately....
No one wants to see your stupid dynos (which you don't have) . . .
If you absolutely need one, both of you gimme $65 and I'll give you dynos for each intake...
One of you just give up already... and we all know which one should be the smarter one & back down...
05-06-2004, 04:37 AM
#62
Originally Posted by volkl77
Excellent Article!!!
So who's going to volunteer to duplicate the experiment ????
Who ever does, and does it honestly and methodically, will put to rest any debate over what intake works best and where the deficiencies are in the stock set up. Any takers???
So who's going to volunteer to duplicate the experiment ????
Who ever does, and does it honestly and methodically, will put to rest any debate over what intake works best and where the deficiencies are in the stock set up. Any takers???
05-06-2004, 05:42 AM
#64
Boss, when you say boosting is bad for engines, you have to specify which engines. Cramming air into the cylinder makes power. The more you cram, the more you make. Fuel supply will have to go hand in hand also.
Boosting super high compression engines can be bad (but it's being done and some engines are surviving it). Boosting low compression engines is desired but every engine has it's limits.
Boosting super high compression engines can be bad (but it's being done and some engines are surviving it). Boosting low compression engines is desired but every engine has it's limits.
05-06-2004, 08:29 PM
#65
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
I'll just add that with the 80-bizilion intake setups I've experimented with at the track and on the street, the Place Racing "true CAI" has made me the happiest.
Don't buy into the "the CAI is a low end mod". I run 14.4s@98mph with the CAI just like I did with my hybrid and hacked airbox setups. The only difference is the CAI seems to offer better driveability, especially in hotter temps.
Dave
Don't buy into the "the CAI is a low end mod". I run 14.4s@98mph with the CAI just like I did with my hybrid and hacked airbox setups. The only difference is the CAI seems to offer better driveability, especially in hotter temps.
Dave
05-06-2004, 08:51 PM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 494
I'm not going to read all 3 pages but intakes are just for noise. You can try 5 different intakes and you'll make the same power give or take (including stock).
Y-pipe is different story since it is very restrictive and has 2-3 cats in it depending on fed or cali-spec. The butt dyno definitely noticed the difference.
Y-pipe is different story since it is very restrictive and has 2-3 cats in it depending on fed or cali-spec. The butt dyno definitely noticed the difference.
05-07-2004, 02:57 AM
#67
U guys need to quit the petty bs. The only weight that is being pullled in these arguments are from people with real first hand experience. Hence, I am a 98 auto. I was completely stock and put on a K&N popcharger air filter. I definitely felt the low-end lag, but on the highways I definitely got more top end. No question. I added the Place Placing piping and cut the fender to make the intake a true cai. WITH AN AUTO THE CAI DEFINITELY IMPROVES LOW END POWER. On the highway is a different story. The cai takes a little from top end power. This is due to the fact that the air has to travel thru more piping unlike the a popcharger w/out piping. Thus, theoretically, at high speeds temperature of air is negated by the fact that soo much air is traveling thru the intake. This is why a drop-in air filter gives more high end. So in the end(esp. w/ autos), cai gives better low end, and popcharger w/out piping gives better high end. This is my personal, first-hand experience so do not try and tell me what I did or did not experience. And since i have a auto w/ a cai, i got the ws y-pipe to add to my high end.
05-07-2004, 06:33 AM
#68
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally Posted by SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
This is my personal, first-hand experience so do not try and tell me what I did or did not experience. And since i have a auto w/ a cai, i got the ws y-pipe to add to my high end.
The reason there is a lag in the low rpms with the POP/hybrid/hacked is because of the ultra short intake tract. At low rpms the air flow is turbulent because it has very little piping to develop laminar flow. The stock intake tract is much longer which helps create a more laminar flow of air. The resonator that sits between the MAF and throttlebody creates an air pulsation which helps fill the VQ's cylinders with air in the lower rpms (idle to ~3000rpms). These two things help make the VQ feel torquey in the lower rpms. The resonator also reduces noise, obviously. A true CAI emmulates the stock intake length to an extent, therefore keeping the air in laminar flow and keeping the low rpms response fairly strong. The CAI's biggest benefit is that it pulls in ambient air therefore the intake charge is much cooler when the outside temps increase. In a nutshel the CAI is much like a stock intake without all the minor restrictions. Years ago I would have never believed the CAI piping would stay so cool on a hot day. I feel like a chump for doubting those that told me this. Sure enough, the temps are in the upper 80s now and my CAI piping is cool to the touch after driving around in stop and go traffic.
DINAN (the BMW tuner) only offers true CAI setups because they know those are the most effective in all racing situations and on the street.
Just something to think about and I'm not trying to convince everyone into buying true CAI setups.
Dave
05-07-2004, 08:00 AM
#69
Although I agree on the temp thing. I don't think the HAI style intake tract is any shorter/longer than the the stock airbox.As both are bolted to the maf.
I'm going to try a modifed CAI that doesn't need nearly as much cutting. Sort of an Injen but it doesn't sit right behind the hot radiator. Mine will sit right below the d-side headlight.
Originally Posted by Dave B
Take it to the track and you'll see the that the CAI will consistently out perform the other setups with a hot engine especially if you have an automatic. Waiting in lines on 70+ degrees days, the engine compartment is scalding hot. If you're running a POP/hybrid/hacked intake you'll be pulling in hot air. Not until about 300' down the track will the engine have cleared out the hot air. Unfortunately the most important part of a 1/4 mile race resides in the first 300'. Sucking in hot air means the MAF dials down the ECU to keep the motor from detonating which means you'll be slower.
The reason there is a lag in the low rpms with the POP/hybrid/hacked is because of the ultra short intake tract. At low rpms the air flow is turbulent because it has very little piping to develop laminar flow. The stock intake tract is much longer which helps create a more laminar flow of air. The resonator that sits between the MAF and throttlebody creates an air pulsation which helps fill the VQ's cylinders with air in the lower rpms (idle to ~3000rpms). These two things help make the VQ feel torquey in the lower rpms. The resonator also reduces noise, obviously. A true CAI emmulates the stock intake length to an extent, therefore keeping the air in laminar flow and keeping the low rpms response fairly strong. The CAI's biggest benefit is that it pulls in ambient air therefore the intake charge is much cooler when the outside temps increase. In a nutshel the CAI is much like a stock intake without all the minor restrictions. Years ago I would have never believed the CAI piping would stay so cool on a hot day. I feel like a chump for doubting those that told me this. Sure enough, the temps are in the upper 80s now and my CAI piping is cool to the touch after driving around in stop and go traffic.
DINAN (the BMW tuner) only offers true CAI setups because they know those are the most effective in all racing situations and on the street.
Just something to think about and I'm not trying to convince everyone into buying true CAI setups.
Dave
The reason there is a lag in the low rpms with the POP/hybrid/hacked is because of the ultra short intake tract. At low rpms the air flow is turbulent because it has very little piping to develop laminar flow. The stock intake tract is much longer which helps create a more laminar flow of air. The resonator that sits between the MAF and throttlebody creates an air pulsation which helps fill the VQ's cylinders with air in the lower rpms (idle to ~3000rpms). These two things help make the VQ feel torquey in the lower rpms. The resonator also reduces noise, obviously. A true CAI emmulates the stock intake length to an extent, therefore keeping the air in laminar flow and keeping the low rpms response fairly strong. The CAI's biggest benefit is that it pulls in ambient air therefore the intake charge is much cooler when the outside temps increase. In a nutshel the CAI is much like a stock intake without all the minor restrictions. Years ago I would have never believed the CAI piping would stay so cool on a hot day. I feel like a chump for doubting those that told me this. Sure enough, the temps are in the upper 80s now and my CAI piping is cool to the touch after driving around in stop and go traffic.
DINAN (the BMW tuner) only offers true CAI setups because they know those are the most effective in all racing situations and on the street.
Just something to think about and I'm not trying to convince everyone into buying true CAI setups.
Dave
05-07-2004, 12:41 PM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 511
Dav B, I like your article. The same as I Like CAI.
Now, do you realize how hot the air is inside your engine? Do you really think it matters if you feed HOT or COLD air? It will get hot in a ten's of a second.
I think, more important is that the air is rich with O2, that is what the CAI does. It sucks air full of O2, but the air inside the hood compartment at 70+ in the traffic is full of other gases then 02, which don't provide enough atmosphere for good ignition.
Just something to add
Now, do you realize how hot the air is inside your engine? Do you really think it matters if you feed HOT or COLD air? It will get hot in a ten's of a second.
I think, more important is that the air is rich with O2, that is what the CAI does. It sucks air full of O2, but the air inside the hood compartment at 70+ in the traffic is full of other gases then 02, which don't provide enough atmosphere for good ignition.
Just something to add
Originally Posted by Dave B
Take it to the track and you'll see the that the CAI will consistently out perform the other setups with a hot engine especially if you have an automatic. Waiting in lines on 70+ degrees days, the engine compartment is scalding hot. If you're running a POP/hybrid/hacked intake you'll be pulling in hot air. Not until about 300' down the track will the engine have cleared out the hot air. Unfortunately the most important part of a 1/4 mile race resides in the first 300'. Sucking in hot air means the MAF dials down the ECU to keep the motor from detonating which means you'll be slower.
The reason there is a lag in the low rpms with the POP/hybrid/hacked is because of the ultra short intake tract. At low rpms the air flow is turbulent because it has very little piping to develop laminar flow. The stock intake tract is much longer which helps create a more laminar flow of air. The resonator that sits between the MAF and throttlebody creates an air pulsation which helps fill the VQ's cylinders with air in the lower rpms (idle to ~3000rpms). These two things help make the VQ feel torquey in the lower rpms. The resonator also reduces noise, obviously. A true CAI emmulates the stock intake length to an extent, therefore keeping the air in laminar flow and keeping the low rpms response fairly strong. The CAI's biggest benefit is that it pulls in ambient air therefore the intake charge is much cooler when the outside temps increase. In a nutshel the CAI is much like a stock intake without all the minor restrictions. Years ago I would have never believed the CAI piping would stay so cool on a hot day. I feel like a chump for doubting those that told me this. Sure enough, the temps are in the upper 80s now and my CAI piping is cool to the touch after driving around in stop and go traffic.
DINAN (the BMW tuner) only offers true CAI setups because they know those are the most effective in all racing situations and on the street.
Just something to think about and I'm not trying to convince everyone into buying true CAI setups.
Dave
The reason there is a lag in the low rpms with the POP/hybrid/hacked is because of the ultra short intake tract. At low rpms the air flow is turbulent because it has very little piping to develop laminar flow. The stock intake tract is much longer which helps create a more laminar flow of air. The resonator that sits between the MAF and throttlebody creates an air pulsation which helps fill the VQ's cylinders with air in the lower rpms (idle to ~3000rpms). These two things help make the VQ feel torquey in the lower rpms. The resonator also reduces noise, obviously. A true CAI emmulates the stock intake length to an extent, therefore keeping the air in laminar flow and keeping the low rpms response fairly strong. The CAI's biggest benefit is that it pulls in ambient air therefore the intake charge is much cooler when the outside temps increase. In a nutshel the CAI is much like a stock intake without all the minor restrictions. Years ago I would have never believed the CAI piping would stay so cool on a hot day. I feel like a chump for doubting those that told me this. Sure enough, the temps are in the upper 80s now and my CAI piping is cool to the touch after driving around in stop and go traffic.
DINAN (the BMW tuner) only offers true CAI setups because they know those are the most effective in all racing situations and on the street.
Just something to think about and I'm not trying to convince everyone into buying true CAI setups.
Dave
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maxima297
4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
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09-30-2015 03:32 PM