98fiveSpeed

Since the information regarding an ECU upgrade four our model years is so
fragmented, I would like this thread to be the location with
the most-complete and up-to-date information for (the lack of) ecu upgrades.

As far as I know, these are the possibilities,

1) Technosquare Inc.
http://www.technosquareinc.com
I spoke with them today and was told that they have no time-frame
set to deal with the 98/99 ECU's. They are working backwards and
have the ECU's ready for the 2003 downto 2000's but have not started
any work on the 98/99 ecu's. Im sure they will have something in
the near-future but as of now, there is no plan. The person I spoke
with also said that they would need a guinnea pig for the test..
I dont have a problem being one but since im in SF bay area and
they closer to LA, so I dont know how this would work. I dont know
what kind of testing would be involved and we would be shpping
the unit back and forth. I am even willing to make the trip out
there, if they agree to do our ecu. But regardless, they dont have
any time-frame to help us out. I have a feeling that if we get together
and show enuf intereset, they will try to do our ECU.

2) Jim Wolf Technology INC.
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/
These guys do ECU's for 90-96. I spoke with one of their techies
today and he told me that the 96 ECU would work and that the
CEL (Check Engine Light) might not/might comeon. This would only be
due to the exhaust related things but the car would run without
problems. Are there any 97/98/99's running modified 96 ECU's?
The cost for this was quoted to be $595.00. He did not indicate
whether JWT would ever consider doing 98/99 ECU's.

3) G-Force Engineering
I found no information on this. I would appreciate if someone could post links.

4) Stillen
I left a message with the tech and will update this thread whenever I hear back.

5) JET Chip
From what I hear, its crap. I would like more feedback on this.

6) The other solution is to use a piggyback system such as E-Manage.
This will allow for the fuel system tuning. The only problem is
this wont remove/upgrade the rev-limiter.

What did I leave out?

How about the more recent ECU's, anyone know if the 2000+ ecu will work for the 98/99's?

billy_corgan

2000 ECUs are the same as 99s....so why?


Stillens "VQ Pro" piggyback ECU is scheduled to be out next month. I called them. I think thats the best bet for an ECU for 99s.

Terran

iTrader: (6)

3) Geforce ECU=Technosquare ECU

http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?MaximaEcus

98fiveSpeed

*deleted - duplicate*

98fiveSpeed

Also, anyone know of any projects out there dedicated to ECU hacking? What tools are used? Whats the process?

I have a technical background but dont know where to get started on this.

BlueC

iTrader: (5)

Is the VQ Pro supposed to alter the Rev limiter? Or is it only fuel/timing stuff?

99s need a solution for the rev limiter, otherwise VI is useless...

BOSS

Forget about it. It'll never happen - mark my words. They won't bother with 98/99's ECU, especially NOW. They have enough 00-03 ECU's to upgrade and will not waste time on a few 98/99 ECU's. Plus, they're probably backlogged as it is.

Now just relax, sit down, cry a while, and realize once and for all that ECU's and 98/99's were not, are not, and will not be compatible.

98fiveSpeed

ok, what about tools for ECU Hacking? Anyone have any info on what tools people use to do this hacking?

BOSS

I would say you have to know your **** to "hack" an ECU and be a darn good electrician to begin with.

RichMax

iTrader: (2)

No.. we basically would need a guy with a degree in EE who knows a bit about cars and has the right tools available to "bench-test" the ECU. No one will work on a 99, it seems (Technosquare told me so, and I've posted about this in the past) We 99ers got together and it didn't accomplish anything with Technosquare. Not to say that no one should try, but... perhaps a different aproach is in order.

Bear in mind that many 99s have NVIS as well, so its basically a 99-only deal- no modified 98, no 97 with a CEL, since the car simply won't start with any of these ECUs no matter how good a modification is performed.

As for VI- I put far more faith in the guys who put a 2000 intake manifold onto a 97+... no low end loss, all kinds of high-end gain- and no ECU upgrade required a much better solution than the MEVI, if yu ask me...

belosic

I have a 64/128/172 prong e-prom encoder that I use to write to various chips for custom motherboards and radio control devices. I've been anxious to take apart a Max ecu to see what info I can pull off / put on the chips. As far as programing in concerned, I use a modified version of eprogDNA, basically, it's a binary encoder that allows you to see variables in a table or database format. I'll post if I ever decide to try it out on a Max.

belosic

bruteMax

what is so different in the 98-99 model years that the ecu upgrades absolutely will not work in these cars (in contrast to the 97s for example)?

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

From what TC told us months ago there won't be any ECU upgrades for 97-98. Something about nissan using different boards for the 97 and the company that manufactured them has disappeared.

98fiveSpeed

Not to seem like im boasting, but I feel this is doable. I just graduated with a degree in Compute Engineering. This is a branch of EE that goes deeper into computer/microcontroller type stuff. EE's dont take the classes that we do. I was asking for the tools because I have the technical background, personal interest in cars and maxima, basic understanding of the concepts, the funding and the time to carry out a project like this. So I am basically looking for a way to communicate with my ecu and then figure out a way to read my eeprom or flash, figure out what the eeprom says, modify the settings, and write to the eeprom. And then hoping the thing would run. So if you guys can help me out and point me in the right direction, maybe we can get something done.

-Jasmeet

98fiveSpeed

I dont think a program would be of much use. The part thats important is a programmer itself. Anyone taken a look at the ECU? does it store its memory on eeprom or flash? What microcontroller?

just a thought but couldnt we figured out how the fuel map was layed out, in the eeprom/flash, then overwrite that area from a 96 map dump?

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

Thing is there were people back in the day that tried this. After a while they realized it wasn't doable. If companies like JWT or TC can't do it, what makes you think you'll be able to?

98fiveSpeed

its not a matter of them being able to do it. The problem is its not profitable.

98fiveSpeed

Anyone know any details about the Nissan ECU in our cars? I've been researching and reading a lot but have not had the chance to pull out my ecu and investigate the parts inside. Anyone have pictures or have taken a look? What kind of a processor is it? Make/model would be helpful. Are there any other techies interested in working on this, or am I the only one? I will take the ECU apart tonight and take a look. I hope its a Intel 8051 based micro.. that would make things much easier for me..

suprropmp

Why dont you guys (the ones that want to try this) hit up a junk yard and pick up a couple of cheap ecus to run tests on instead of speculating about what might and might not work?

Seems like the logical thing to do.

98fiveSpeed

Suprropmp.. ofcourse that would be the logical way to go. Who's talking about testing on our own ECU's? I simply want to crack it open and make a list of the main components. Such as which micro and memory chips are used. Anyone have pictures of their ECU's that can post? I would appreciate pictures of the 95/96s as well....

98fiveSpeed

I opened my ECU up today and did some searching on google to identify the different IC's.. no luck. Anyways, here is a list of the major IC's that I saw, any help in identifying then would be greatly appreciated. Datasheets would be even better, but lets just start with identification.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

http://www.speckvc.com/manufacturers/JECS.htm
http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG19981211S0013

From my understanding, 95-96 are made by the same people while 97 were made by a different company. 98 was made by a different company and 99-01+ is a different company.

endus

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for posting this 98FiveSpeed. I've been meaning to get in touch with the ECU companies and post a thread like this, but just hadn't gotten around to it yet.

While I'm not an electrical engineer, I would have to agree that the ECU is definitely hackable by someone with the right skills and equipment. I mean, there shouldn't be anything so drastically different about the 98+ ECU that makes it completely unhackable.

That said, I can't believe that there aren't enough people with an interest in this to get technosquare or whoever to do it. I am definitely not interested in the "maybe have a CEL" solution that JWT offers...if I'm going to get an ECU and MEVI I want to do it 100%. Maybe if we could get some kind of numbers together or get a certain number of people to commit to buying one we could get Technosquare to do it...

Keyser Skoze

Ive been looking into the ECU thing for some time now. I got the MEVI (not yet installed). Im waiting so i can get the ECU done at the same time. I have been speaking with cattman via email for about a week and the JWT ECU upgrade will work in the 98. Instead of the RPM switch that you would need for the MEVI, they can add a part to the ECU that will handle the RPM and some other stuff. Unfortunatly its like $250 or so. The entire thing would run a bit over $850. Wondering if its worth the extra $250.

Brudaddy

iTrader: (2)

I could not agree with you more.
I mean, these companies are not going to do something that is not profitable for them. If it is going to cost more for them to research the 98/99, then they are going to profit, they will not do it. I don't think that means that it cannot be done.
I would like to hvae something like this.

Good post.
Keep up the research and let us know what you come up with.
I wish I could shed light on that stuff that you are wanting to know about the ECU's, but I am an idiot when it comes to that electrical stuff.

98fiveSpeed

I think I found something more on JECS, take a look at the fourth result from the top at:
http://www.hansenreport.com/backissu...?Keyword=Japan

"Unisia JECS, The Company Profile (10/01)"
Unisia JECS, supplier of engine control and drivetrain products, has felt the fallout from Nissan's restructuring. Nissan remains Unisia JECS top customer. Appears in October 2001 newsletter. $50.00

So I guess we now know that the company name is Unisia JECS. A search on this name comes up with Hitachi Unisia, http://www.unisiajecs.co.jp/e/. The name of this company is Hitachi Unisia Automotive, Ltd.

Jr'sMaxima

Keep in mind, if you figure it out for a 99, they have the NVIS system on them, meaning we really have to have it done to your own ECU, so we would all have to send it in and be out a few days on our car. Piggy back system I think may end up being our best hope, although, this does sound promising what you are doing, it may not be the total answer.

98fiveSpeed

Here is the picture. I will post pin counts of the IC's later on.



I'm thinking of setting up a wiki/blog so that I can update that instead of keep bringing this thread up....

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I say you get an OBD-II cable and moddify the current software so it can read and write to the ECU.

98fiveSpeed

* updated my earlier post above to include pin counts and package types.

kevlo911: I've ordered a kit that will let me do just that. I was under the impression that if we make any changes via the OBDII port, they would only be temporary. Can anyone confirm if its possible to write to the ECU's memory permanently via the OBDII port? If so then we possibly have a easier solution at hand..

Just checked the USPS tracking info for my OBDII kit, looks like it should be waiting for me at home when I get off work!

And look what else I found: !!!

http://www.cit.uws.edu.au/~luke/software/CONSULT/

Cant wait to start playing with my max.. ofcourse I have to change the alternator first to even get it to crank the motor.. but that should be taken care of in a day or so!

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

If you could get the "dump" of the info on fuel/ignition mapping and rev limiter, we could edit that and write to back to hte ECU. It should be in HEX or in BIN

98fiveSpeed

well, at the moment I dont see why that would cause a problem... but ofcourse I dont know much about the system yet. NVIS is the Nissan Variable Intake System, we are trying to 1) modify the rev-limiter, and 2) modify the air/fuel settings. in #2 it may cause problems, but lets just get #1 out of the way.

BlueC

iTrader: (5)

Yea, all I want is the rev limiter bumped up, dont care about air/fuel stuff. Is the NVIS on the 99 ecus? Is there a way to use that if we transplant the 2000 intake manifold over?

billy_corgan

Don't know. I highly doubt it since it is just an ECU that goes onto all VQ engines. Very general. But we will still see the gains from advanced fuel mappiongs and whatnot.

And why would you not care about the air/fuel stuff. remember without that the car will be losing HP and torque down lower. You dont care about 10-15hp?

98fiveSpeed

Thats exactly what I was getting at. I guess the roadmap should be:

1) Identify where the data is stored (physical location -> which IC)
2) How/where the data is stored in memory (inside that IC)
3) Is it protected from reading/modifications
3a) find solution to #3
4) modify,
5) fix checksum if required, then write back
6) cross ur fingers and crank the motor.

98fiveSpeed

I read about the NVIS from this article, http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/march04/ask_sarah/ Title of the article is What are the differences between the VQ30DE and VQ35DE? So to me it seems like NVIS was added to the new motor, and 99s should be the same as my 98. But is this not the case??

for the air/fuel stuff we have a solution, a piggy back system. But the entire goal of this system is to provide a soltion for both problems, rev limit and a/f.

If we cannot hack, then we can try to fake the actual limit so that the ECU thinks the engine is actually spinning slower than actual speed.. but Im sure this will cause many more problems and is not really a solution. Anyone think of any problems that could be caused if we simply slow the signal down and trick the engine into revving to a specified higher limit than stock..... but I dont think this is the way to go and we should stay away from such solutions.

BlueC

iTrader: (5)

No no no. Im talking about the VI from the 2000/2001 maxima, not the MEVI. I wont be losing any low end. Plus, I'll be running e-manage or something similar since the injectors will be larger, so thats why i dont want an ecu with fuel/timing adjustments. I just want the limiter raised. I can do all the fuel stuff through a piggy back system and dyno tuning.

Brudaddy

iTrader: (2)

I really do need the air/fuel stuff. I want that low end power. That is most of my driving. I don't get over 3500 usually in every day driving.

98fiveSpeed

...i think if we can figure out the air/fuel stuff it would really be benifical to everyone. the cost would be the biggest thing and as brudaddy put it, thats where we do most of the driving. It would be nice to have a few extra horses in the power band for free.. Rather than spending the extra cash for getting a piggy back system.

We need to figure out what these IC's are.

Jr'sMaxima

The NVIS I was speaking of is the Nissan Vehicle Immobilization System I beleive is what it stands for, and that is where you have the chip in the key, and if you dont have that chip your car dont start. Well, in the 99's this is the case, each ECU is matched up that way. How much sense I just made is unclear to even me but that was the understanding that I was under.