Hi, have a 96SE (just hit 100K); want to know the best possible engine oil for max performance (currently the dealer uses Castrol GTX - 10W30); also would appreciate any info about performance additives; thanks.

 

I use Castrol because they are the only ones that support our local British Car Show. Here is a link to more info than you would ever want to know about motor oils.

http://www.bmcno.org/techtip_motor_oil.htm

 

Mobil 1 synthetic

 

I read that one. It's basicly his opinion more than anything. He actually says synthetics are worse for cold weather becuase it's thinner. WTF? Let's see it's -10F and you have choice between synthetics that will flow and get oil up to your valve train fast or gooey thick dino oil that the cold thickened and potentially blows your oil filter and extends the time it takes to get the oil to the upper valvetrain by many seconds(which is a hell of alot of time!)

Try these: Alot less subjective information here.

http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html
http://mr2.com/TEXT/synth_oil.txt

 

You obviously DIDN'T read it because it is a reprint of one OF YOUR LINKS. Maybe before you dis someone, you will at least look at the post!

 

The topic of oil has been discussed many times here. You should do a search and read all about it.

I was a Castrol user for many, many years with all my vehicles but recently switched to Mobil1 synthetic after thoroughly researching the topic of synthetic vs. mineral oil. Be aware that Mobil1 is one of the few "true" synthetics available. The bottom line for me was that synthetics are by nature "cleaner" since they do not have to remove waxes, etc. as in the processing of crude oil to refined mineral oil. There has been some discussion of newer mineral oils that are hydro-cracked which approach the "cleanliness" aspects of synthetics but few manufacturers market hydro-cracked oils. Castrol Syntec is in fact a hydro-cracked oil and not a true synthetic like Mobil1 or Amsoil which are mainly PAO (poly alpha olefin) based.

You can read more about these topics at:

noria.com
amsoil.com
chevron.com
mobil1.com (this one has been recently updated and is chock full of great new info).

Let us know what you decide to do.

Cheers!

 

Here are the parts I'm interested in and I will comment.

""""ADVANTAGES OF SYNTHETIC OIL
Better lubrication properties. Less breakdown over time. These two mean much better relative lubrication properties of the base oil in the latter parts of a particular oil change interval. But, does the improvement really reduce wear significantly? Properly changed dino oil with good filters will enable your engine to operate for a long time without concern for poor-lubrication-induced failures, so is synthetic adding any value? Finally, there is the benefit of lower friction or efficiency. But I'm not sure how well this can be quantified. Would it really cut your 1/4 ET? Not so you could notice. """

I don't disagree w/ the above, it's clearly biased towards dino. Subjective tests have proven synthetics reduce wear. Plus if you are using oil to reduce your 1/4 times on your street driven car, you are looking in the wrong area. So just becuase it doesn't reduce your 1/4 mile times, don't use it? Doesn't make sense.


""DISADVANTAGES OF SYNTHETIC OIL
First is cost. Are you really going to run a long time with acids and combustion products collecting in our oil? Folks that use oil analysis to determine oil change frequencies can evaluate this tradeoff , but I can't."""

This is his opinion and does not give any factual data to back it up. Nice huh? Opinion becomes fact. OIl analysis is a very good way to determine how your oil is going. Blackstone labs not only gives the oil's condition, the engine's condition but also gives recommendations on how your engine is doing and how long you should wait until the next evaluation. If he can't evaluate based on this type then he's stupid.

"""The second disadvantage is that synthetic oil usually is lower in viscosity at low temperatures. It will have a tendency to drain down faster. On the other hand, it usually has better filming properties, so this probably is not a concern. You may hear your engine more on cold startup, but it may not be receiving any more harm.""

Again, WTF would you rather have? Oil that flows at low temp or oil that is significantly slower to flow when you start your car in a cold morning?? It's your choice. Plus this is what anti-drain back valves in your oil filter are for??

"""Third, it also tends to be a bit thinner at high temperature. This can exacerbate oil leaks and oil burning. Since the oil is more expensive, it makes the leaks/burning more expensive.""""

So what if it's "thinner" It's more like it's keeping it's true viscosity. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Synthetics keep their listed viscosity much better than dinos. So how much more "thin" does dino oil get?? If he's inferring that "thin" oil is dangerous, just remember Amsoil has much better(30x) the film strength than dino oil. This is what keeps the metal parts from contacting, not how thin/thick it is.

"""WHAT I USE
I use 4 quarts of Castrol GTX 10W-30 with 1 quart of Castrol Syntec 5W-50 and change the oil and filter every 3,500 miles. I like the clinging properties of the synthetic, but don't feel it's necessary to use 5 quarts of synthetic to gain it's benefits. And I use Castrol because our local factory rep generously supports our car show!"""

Wow! Really getting scientific here right? lol. His "cocktail" oil is has more potential to do harm than any potential good he wants. I REALLY like the reasoning his uses after all this scientific info.

I didn't mean to flame and the link does contain decent info but you can see his obvious bias towards dino.

So in reality it's only a partial reprint, with is opinion(at best) thrown in to justify his use of dino.

Do I have a legit DIS or what?

 

Subjective tests have proven synthetics reduce wear.
Quite the contrary. The most exhaustive test I have seen to date was done by Consumer Reports on NYC cabs. Their conclusions were that there was NO measurable difference in wear protection between any of the name brand oils, dino and synth.

""DISADVANTAGES OF SYNTHETIC OIL
First is cost. Are you really going to run a long time with acids and combustion products collecting in our oil? Folks that use oil analysis to determine oil change frequencies can evaluate this tradeoff , but I can't."""

This is his opinion and does not give any factual data to back it up. Nice huh? Opinion becomes fact. OIl analysis is a very good way to determine how your oil is going. Blackstone labs not only gives the oil's condition, the engine's condition but also gives recommendations on how your engine is doing and how long you should wait until the next evaluation. If he can't evaluate based on this type then he's stupid.
He's not saying that oil analysis not a good tool, he's saying that most people won't spend $20 to determine when it would be necessary to change synthetic. I don't understand your complaint here.

"""The second disadvantage is that synthetic oil usually is lower in viscosity at low temperatures. It will have a tendency to drain down faster. On the other hand, it usually has better filming properties, so this probably is not a concern. You may hear your engine more on cold startup, but it may not be receiving any more harm.""

Again, WTF would you rather have? Oil that flows at low temp or oil that is significantly slower to flow when you start your car in a cold morning?? It's your choice. Plus this is what anti-drain back valves in your oil filter are for??
He said it probably wasn't a concern. I also don't understand your complaint here. FWIW, how many posts have we seen on faulty anti-drain back valves in oil filters?

"""Third, it also tends to be a bit thinner at high temperature. This can exacerbate oil leaks and oil burning. Since the oil is more expensive, it makes the leaks/burning more expensive.""""

So what if it's "thinner" It's more like it's keeping it's true viscosity. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Synthetics keep their listed viscosity much better than dinos. So how much more "thin" does dino oil get?? If he's inferring that "thin" oil is dangerous, just remember Amsoil has much better(30x) the film strength than dino oil. This is what keeps the metal parts from contacting, not how thin/thick it is.
I agree he's not making much of a point here about oil leaks, but I don't see where your opinion "that synthetics keep their listed viscosity better" is any more valid.

"""WHAT I USE
I use 4 quarts of Castrol GTX 10W-30 with 1 quart of Castrol Syntec 5W-50 and change the oil and filter every 3,500 miles. I like the clinging properties of the synthetic, but don't feel it's necessary to use 5 quarts of synthetic to gain it's benefits. And I use Castrol because our local factory rep generously supports our car show!"""

Wow! Really getting scientific here right? lol. His "cocktail" oil is has more potential to do harm than any potential good he wants. I REALLY like the reasoning his uses after all this scientific info.
I thought he made it was quite clear that this was strictly his opinion. Your opinion that it could do more harm than good has been disproved by the fact that Castrol has from day 1 claimed that their synthetic is 100% compatable with dyno and now markets a synthetic blend.

Do I have a legit DIS or what?
I haven't seen your any more strength in your arguments than in his. Opinions vary, no need to slam someone for presenting them. The original poster asked for opinions, not raw scientific data with no editorializing.

 

it also depends on your driving habits...if I am not mistaken I belive some high end cars come with mobil 1 full synthetic in them.

 

My vote...Mobil 1. I didn't go with Castrol because they did indeed change their formula and don't make a 'full" synthetic. I also want the extra protection given by synthetics regarding "flow" and lengthy oil changes. Maybe not totally scientific but that's my .02.

Cheers

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sinewave
[B]Subjective tests have proven synthetics reduce wear.
Quite the contrary. The most exhaustive test I have seen to date was done by Consumer Reports on NYC cabs. Their conclusions were that there was NO measurable difference in wear protection between any of the name brand oils, dino and synth.



Please be aware that the consumer reports article only reports two cabs used the synthetic oil. Testing of synthetic oil was only a small part of their project. Their main study was on various mineral oils.




"""WHAT I USE
I use 4 quarts of Castrol GTX 10W-30 with 1 quart of Castrol Syntec 5W-50 and change the oil and filter every 3,500 miles. I like the clinging properties of the synthetic, but don't feel it's necessary to use 5 quarts of synthetic to gain it's benefits. And I use Castrol because our local factory rep generously supports our car show!"""

Wow! Really getting scientific here right? lol. His "cocktail" oil is has more potential to do harm than any potential good he wants. I REALLY like the reasoning his uses after all this scientific info.
I thought he made it was quite clear that this was strictly his opinion. Your opinion that it could do more harm than good has been disproved by the fact that Castrol has from day 1 claimed that their synthetic is 100% compatable with dyno and now markets a synthetic blend.




Yes, this would make sense since Castrol Syntec is really just a more refined mineral oil! I have the MSDS (material data safety sheets) to prove this and you can order them yourself from Castrol in Wayne, IN to see for yourself. Furthermore, originally Castrol Syntec was in fact a PAO based true synthetic and then, unbeknowngst to the public, switched to a refined mineral oil without changing the name! This was the basis of Mobil's lawsuit against Castrol. I don't trust Castrol anymore as a result of what I feel was pulling the wool over the public's eyes.

 

I would love to see more info on Mobil's lawsuit of Castrol. I am holding a bottle of Syntec in my hand right now and the label reads "Full Synthetic Motor Oil". I purchased it about 6 weeks ago. I find it very doubtful that the FTC would allow them to continue marketing it as a full synthetic if it is not.

The blend that they have been selling next to the full synthetic has been out for a couple of years. Maybe that's the source of confusion.

I have not seen the MSDS's so I will have to take your word for it. Have you also examined the MSDS for Castrol's dino oil and cataloged the differences? Since they are both hydrocarbon based engine lubricants, they may have the exact same properties, at least as far as OSHA is concerned.

 

Sinewave:

I just dug up my MSDS sheets. Regular Castrol GTX is listed as a "petroleum hydrocarbon" but Syntec is listed as a "synthetic hydrocarbon". Herein lies the origin of Mobil's lawsuit before the NAD (National Advertising Division) regarding what constitutes synthetic. Indeed, as a chemist, I can tell you that motor oil refined from crude petroleum as well as a true synthetic oil such as Amsoil or Mobil can be classified as a hydrocarbon since this merely means containg hydrogen and carbon as all organic molecules do. Because Castrol claims they have changed the original form of the mineral oil to another form, they believe this constitutes a "synthesis". They do this by a process called hydrocracking (splitting large chain mineral oil with high pressure hydrogen gas at high pressure). Although they have indeed changed the form and destructed some of the impurity wax molecules, have they truly "synthesized" something? Most chemists would argue that a synthesis requires reacting different species together to create new molecules. Of course, Castrol found expert chemists to testify that that there was some degree of "synthesis" involved in their process due to the hydrocracking reaction but this is certainly not the degree of synthesis that is undergone in the creation of Amsoil or Mobil oil. Here, ethylene oxide molecules are linked together to form what is called poly alpha olefins. This better fits a truer definition of a synthesis. I also found in my file a letter from Susan Howell, Consumer Relations Coordinator, at Castrol in a response to a question regarding this topic I posed to them some months ago. She responded..."All of our mineral based oil, GTX grades, have a paraffinic base. At the end of the refining process, the oil goes through hydrogenation, where it reacts with hydrogen. This results in a better, more stabilized oil. Whereas, the hydrocracking process is used primarily for synthetic oils." Pay attention to the final sentence. Since hydrocracking is not used in PAO synthesis, this clearly shows Castrol Syntec is a refined mineral oil.

I also have a reprint of an article by Patrick Bedard (editor for Car and Driver) which he wrote in February, 2001. He states "...Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its syntec "full synthetic motor oil", eliminating the PAO base stock and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock."

You can find lots more information on this topic in an article from Lubricant World at the following site.

http://www.pecuniary.com/newsletters...csdefined.html

My conclusion is that if one wants to use a mineral oil with a high degree of refinement, go with Castrol syntec but realize how it has been made. If one wants to use an oil synthesized from the ground up without any of the original impurities of a petroleum base stock, go with something like Mobil1.

Let me know what you think.

 

Sinewave:

I found the reprint of the Car and Driver article. It was published in November, 2000 not February, 2001 as I thought which was when I printed it out (sorry).

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...mns_bedard.xml

 

Thanks for the excellent links. I had no idea that Castrol had reformulated Syntec. I am still reading the articles, so bear with me.

The real debate here is what is the definition of a "synthetic". Obviously SAE and API have decided to stay out of the fight, but National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureau seems to have vindicated Castrol. I also find it interesting that Mobil's overseas sythetic is made from a hydroisomerized basestock.

I have done electrical design in the petrochemical industry for the last 23 years, so I am somewhat familiar with the distilling and cracking of crude. It is my understanding that crude that is processed in the cat crackers and hydrotreaters is re-distilled and mixed in with the other products that were pulled from the first cut. I have trouble with Castrol calling these cracked molecules synthetic stock. Am I off base here?

several quotes I think are worth highlighting are:

"Although most synthetic basestocks offer certain advantages relative to conventional stocks, superior performance is not guaranteed by their use."

"In other words, the decision sends a message that 'synthetic' is not synonymous with 'PAO'."

And so the debate rages on.

 

i heard that if you want to transition from regular dino oil to a synthetic oil you have to use a synthetic blend(dino/synthetic)... is that true?

 

Did you decide what to do? I need to do more research..See you on Monday--gotta show you my new 20% tint, clear tails and discuss grants conversion--in that order!! lol

 

You're lucky Jeff didn't school you more, as he's read more about this than any of us combined.

Consumer Reports?
Exhaustive Test?


What ignorance.

You obviously didn't read Jeff's provided links, it's repeated in my sig if you're interested in gaining knowledge.

 

not true. you can switch to straight synthetic from normal dino oil.

 

You know, you really don't have the temperament to be an effective moderator. Maybe you ought to just turn in your badge.

 

Maybe you should try to gain knowledge instead of passing off ignorance as knowledge. [rhetorical question, as I alread know the answer]Have you even clicked on those links yet?[/rhetorical question, as I alread know the answer]

And I'm not going anywhere.

Also, BTW:

I DO NOT MODERATE THIS FORUM.

 

Sinewave,

Glad you enjoyed the links. I have a whole binder of information on this subject. No you are not off base regarding having a trouble with Castrol calling cracked molecules synthetic stock and I think the NAD has done the public a disfavor in allowing them to call it such. I believe it is an inaccuarate and inadequate definition they have allowed and allows Castrol to be misleading. So, the bottom line is that the burden of the decision comes to rest with the consumer now. What is a consumer willing to accept for a definition of synthetic? If they are happy with Castrol's extensive hydrocracking, etc. of petroleum and their subsequent labeling of such product as "synthetic", so be it. They can rest assured they probably have bought one of the finest mineral oils on the market. On the other hand, if they, like me, object to the labeling of a petroleum origin oil as synthetic, they will look for a product such as Mobil1 which has been made from ethylene oxide gas to create PAO molecules without any involvement of crude petroleum.

If you want to learn more about these hydroprocessed oils and comparisons to PAO based oils, check out the Chevron.com site. They have some excellent pdf files by Brenk Lok and David Kramer (Product Mager for Chevron base oils and staff engineer respectively) to download with all sorts of comparsions of Groups II and III petroleum based oils to PAO oils. I think you will find them quite interesting. I can look up the link later today if you can't find it.

 

""Quite the contrary. The most exhaustive test I have seen to date was done by Consumer Reports on NYC cabs. Their conclusions were that there was NO measurable difference in wear protection between any of the name brand oils, dino and synth.""

You then have not read ANY of the links I provided. If you are basing you your oil decisions on this article alone, you should read more.

""DISADVANTAGES OF SYNTHETIC OIL
""He's not saying that oil analysis not a good tool, he's saying that most people won't spend $20 to determine when it would be necessary to change synthetic. I don't understand your complaint here.""

You should. He FIRST statement is not accurate therefore opinions based on unaccurate information is going to be what? Anything close to a good opinion at best? What he is saying is that he's never had tests done and is talking out of his ***. My complaint is he is making opinion fact when he has not taking the piddly $20 to research it.

He said it probably wasn't a concern. I also don't understand your complaint here. FWIW, how many posts have we seen on faulty anti-drain back valves in oil filters?

Okay try using dino oil in -10 degree weather when you car's dino oil super thick becuase it CAN'T hold it's listed viscosity and see what happens okay? I have seen blown oil filters on my relative's VW. First hand.

I agree he's not making much of a point here about oil leaks, but I don't see where your opinion "that synthetics keep their listed viscosity better" is any more valid.""

That's the point. This is not opinion, it's fact. You don't do much research do ya? Kinda makes alot more valid no?

""I thought he made it was quite clear that this was strictly his opinion. Your opinion that it could do more harm than good has been disproved by the fact that Castrol has from day 1 claimed that their synthetic is 100% compatable with dyno and now markets a synthetic blend.""

In my opinion, his reasoning for mixing oils together is a very unintelligent way to "trying" to improve the proformance of his oil. Based on this idiotic reasoning, it really disredits him. Why anyone would mix oils together when there are already blends available(why I don't know, marketing probably) is beyond me.

""I haven't seen your any more strength in your arguments than in his. Opinions vary, no need to slam someone for presenting them. The original poster asked for opinions, not raw scientific data with no editorializing.""

Whatever, maybe you need some glasses or something. No one was slamming, you only took it that way. The orignal poster was looking for valid information(my opinion)

 

[ignorant member who think they know about oil without decent research]

Originally posted by Jeff92se


Reading involves work, so I don't feel like it.



His opinion is better than yours. Why? Because he has a website and everything on the internet is the cold, hard truth. You're just jealous.



THERE ALL KINDS OF POSTS ON FAULTY DRAINBACK VALVES. I can name 1 or 2 off the top of my head, which means there must be several hundred dealing with this. But I don't feel like researching to know for sure.



Who cares what you've seen!?! That doesn't make it fact. Please stop forcing me to change my oil to synthetic. PLEASE!




I don't feel like researching, but I can tell you that dino is better. There. Refute that, ####a$$.



Yeah, but what do you know? Your car ticks all the $#@$ time....

I believe mixing dino and synthetic enhances the performance because he has a really pretty website with tables and stuff and seems to talk very well.

I still think you're just jealous.

[/ignorant member who think they know about oil without decent research]

 

What I'm trying to figure out is whether I should change it at 3k or would it be ok if I left it in there a little longer. Is my engine going to blow up? PLEASE HELP ME!! Oh, and I'm not going to search because it says in the Constitution that I don't have to search, all information should be handed to me without working for it. Don't infringe on my rights!

 

[sarcasm][attempt at humor]

Originally posted by Mustang1999


Call Jiffy Lube and ask them. They are the experts.



Probably. But it's a Rustang anyway.......



Why?



It's best to think of this forum as communistic in nature. You get rights that I think you should get. Why? Because I'm a moderator and you aren't.

Like I said, you have no rights.

Have a nice day.



[/sarcasm][/attempt at humor]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bill99gxe
[sarcasm][attempt at humor]


Call Jiffy Lube and ask them. They are the experts.


Bubba at Jiffy Lube said I had to come in and change it immediately because my engine was gonna fall apart, crap..

Probably. But it's a Rustang anyway.......


Really? I don't see any rust anywhere......



Why?



Because I asked you inconsiderate a-hole..


It's best to think of this forum as communistic in nature. You get rights that I think you should get. Why? Because I'm a moderator and you aren't.


I think it's best that you refrain from saying anymore, my lawyers will be in touch.


Like I said, you have no rights.


Yes I do.. my Mommy said so...

Have a nice day.


Too late you already ruined it by telling me something I don't want to hear. Why are you forcing things on me??

I'm gonna go cry now, my brother's uncle's mom's friend's cousin was all wrong about the oil... WHAT AM I GONNA DO?!


[/sarcasm][/attempt at humor]

 

Okay by ALL THE LINKS LISTED IN THIS THREAD, Amsoil is objectively the "best" oil in terms of performance. That is if by performance you mean protection.