[QUOTE]Originally posted by emax95
[B]


The Stillen SC was about 4 grand when it was new{not 3K}, I bought my SC new from Stillen a few months ago for $3,300{not 4K}.
I remember calling Stillen myself when they first introduced the supercharger and I was quoted $3,000 as I said. I know this for a fact! Anyway that's beside the point. Stillen has a monopoly going and I don't like it. I know, I know, put up or shut up!

 

I believe the new motor that will be in the new maxima has a different block meaning the heads are probably different , its more based on the pathfinders motor then it is the 4th or 5th gen. i wont know till i get my hands on one at the dealership (september) as for the post about someone inquiring vortech about a trade in for the v2.. we dont necesarily have to use a vortech blower there are many makers of superchargers out there that can perform like the v1 or v2 plus , you inquired about one charger , the first kit would probably cost alot of money but do you honestly think that if the first kit work and we ordered say 25 more blowers that we would get charged the same amount ? i think not , the whole idea behind this is volume. the more we buy once the first kit is up and running the cheaper it will be. oh and i live in CT im sure we can figure out something though. ill be in touch for now i have to get off the computer before i get yelled at , later peeps
-pete

 

just besure that stillen doesn't get midevil on your *** for copying the bracket..

but anyhoo. they never applied for a patent so. more power to Joo

 

also another thing i might add,

ok. if you're going to copy the bracket, that's fine. you'll need an exisiting v2 bracket from someone nice enough to take it off their car for you to use, about a 2 foot by 2 foot by 2 inch thick slab of t6 6061 or stronger aluminum (price of around $60-70) , and a nice pair of digital calipers..

CAD'ing the bracket isn't that hard, if you have a skilled ME it should take no more than 2 full days. but if you're going to get someone to do it FOR YOu. then that's the biatch. there's like $200-400 right there in labor costs.. BUT ONCE youhave that done. u can dupe as many as you want.. CNC time is all automated by machine, so we're talking about $40/hr at a machine shop and about two to three hours each bracket to be machined out and done to military spec.

now getting that blower is the next problem. Stillen is of course working with vortech.. so their cost for the blower im assuming is no more than like $500 each. but of course its their wholesale cost. to you the wanna-be-sc-maker, its going to cost you unless u can find a rebuilt casing and the pulley and sorta hybrid it yourself....

all the misc bolts and nuts can be purchased at a generic metric parts store, and would only cost like $50 a most for ALL the m6 and m6 bolts and washers and blah blah.

the Standoff bolts and the coolant bracket would need to be machined, and that is where that will cost some more and those three thing s alone would cost you the buyer if u did it yourself at a machine shop oh about $50. (of course i know this. but stillen charged me like $120)

the piping? well if you're going to do front mount intercooler, that normal piping is useless anyway, but if you were to buy 2.5 inch diameter piping and mandrel bent pieces and welded together, materials cost would be $120, labor would be like $100 for all the pieces that u need.

the FMU for the consumer would be a biatch to get. prolyl $300 +.. but for stillen their cost would be less, of course..

stillen makes alot more than $500 a kit... i remember when the kit first came out it was only like $2600 or $2800 and has long since escalated to well over $3500. what makes their kit different from the SC kits that are available to integras or civics? nothing much . except their market has more competition than ours and stillen can charge much more.

i mean. youcan get a TURBO for an integra for the same price as the SC kit for ours.

so. stillen imho is makin about $700 a kit. i mean. to them. labor costs is zero. they HAVE CNC machines. only cost to them was the initial CAD design they had to pay their engineer to make. and everything else was to them wholesale costs from their partnerships..

 

Interesting. I was doing a search on supercharger units, and found from www.shoshop.com that the Taurus SHO (3.0V6 with DOHC 24v) with the stage 1 SC unit puts out 9psi and about 350hp to the wheels or 410hp at the crank... non intercooled. Incredible. Even though it's at the SHO's 7000 rpm redline. It seems like most people in the SHO camp also use the Vortech SC units.

-V

 

wow , thank u for all that, in your honest opinion do u think that once the parts and everything are specified and sourced out that if 20 - 30 sets of parts were ordered that the price would drop due to a higher volume, thats the only way i see this working. as for the bracket, other tuning companies always buy their competetors kit and improve on it or change it to their liking. its how the market works. the reason im looking for such a broad audience is maybe, just maybe, someone has a connection through a friend to get chargers , and they always thought about it but didnt bother because they couldnt get the brackets made , maybe someone can machine the brackets and never built a kit cause the charger was too expensive, alot of this i anticipate will be luck. im starting research now everyone who wants in , if u could shoot me a mail at peej410@aol.com id like to get a mail list together so that i can keep in touch with everyone and organize things. if anyone thinks they can handle this better (fueling the poormans supercharger) by all means help me out thanks again peeps
-pete

 

this was your idea and im tryin to build on it , how do u think u can help , all i can really do is hypothesize how this is going to work , if everyone could do a little research as i plan to we should be able to find a wealth of knowledge on this stuff. There is a cheap and right way to do everything. Take for example an air/fuel gauge, u could go spend 400 bucks on an APEXi S-AFC or u could find the directions online to make yer own out of literally ten dollars of parts all u need is a soldering iron and common sense , it may not be as cool as the APEXi unit , but it costs ALOT less. As for some sort of head guy for the operation i dont know if i could cut it , i dont like telling people what to do, so till someone better suited joins up im just gonna ask that everyone does their own research if yer interested
-pete any questions or suggestions post or email me
peej410@aol.com

 

hey if cheston's somewhat optimistic about this i think it might work. so was he just saying that he was gonna CAD the bracket, i think so.

 

everyone who posted as being interested in this , i will contact you within the next day or two. in the mean time , ask everyone that u think could help for ideas suggestions comments even critiscims , if someone laughs , then tell them youll be back with timeslips if anyone who has a kit wants to help, there could be cash in it for you , that can be discussed at any time by contacting me. Depending on how many people will help , i think we should split up in to teams of three or four and learn as much as possible about one aspect of it then meet on sundays or something for a few hours IE: one team fuel management, one team hardware , one team tubing , one team brackets and mounts etc. if u have more suggestions let me know. oh and cheston on yer site u said there is a company in CT working on a new pulley for the V2 , u think u could get their number for me ???? i happen to be right in the neighboorhood. maybe they can help us with the pulley mounted to the motor
have a good night everyone
-pete

 

Hey Pete what part of CT are you from? I live on the border of CT and R.I. Are you close to brooklyn CT or Sterling? It whould funny if you lived down the street from me.

So who's got the easy job of doing the harware ? BTW it's too bad I sold my SC to Cheston becuase I whould have let you take a look at it and all.

 

that would be hilarious, but unfortunately i live next to hartford right smack dab in the middle almost , i gtg to work but ill try and get on here during my lunch to better answer yer questions
-pete

 

First of all, I want to thank you for your interest and effort. If you hadn't been interested, this would have been a dead thread. This really is a major project, but I keep thinking about the possibilities. I don't have access to much that would be helpful, although I will help in any way I can. I have never even seen a supercharger in person so I have very limited info about the whole kit. Thank you also to Emax and Cheston for your contributions. If this idea was to take off, it would require many hands. Basically, I think our main problem is that we don't know where to start. This is almost a job for a performance shop. People just keep your ideas coming. OK, realistically we need an entire supercharger kit to begin with and that will give us a much better idea of how to conquer this task. I have to go, but will check back later! All this is going to take is some work, which never killed anyone.

 

He's right. I actually did some research to this a little while back and between the supercharger and the custom piping and the pullies and it's already around 2500. Keep adding the belts, mounts, fuel pump, special parts for moving the washer fluid tank, etc, and it gets costly. ESPECIALLY if you try and make just one prototype since custom parts become easily doubly as expensive. Not considering the fact that Stillen (since they do frequent these boards) would put you in a headlock and sue your *** if you started making bunches of these... I mean, maybe if somebody had a friend who just bought a kit and it wasn't on yet so he could investigate and he had the skill and tools to make all the mounts and pipes himself, but other than that, not going to happen.

 

Monopoly = Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service.

Focus on the word control. Stillen does not have control of this market. They may be the only vendor offering a supercharger kit but that does not make it a monopoly. Anybody who wants to compete with Stillen can do so. There aren't more companies selling supercharger kits because ...

- The profit isn't as large as you imagine. If the profits were large other speed equipment manufacturers would enter this market. The companies which make superchargers would seek to increase their sales by selling installation kits.

- The volume isn't sufficiently high. You've got to spread your fixed costs (design, tooling, testing, documentation) over a large number of units sold in order to keep your costs down. If you divide the pie two or three ways none of the players will reach their break-even point.

 

Mr. Martin is correct, i dont think that stillen would get on our case, just because some of the parts used might look similar doesnt mean we are "copying" their design. for instance, how many ways are there to mount the supercharger on the block.?? , anyways i gotta go i will reply again later
-pete

 

Just think 3rd gen area is a untapped S/C place. I would fork over money to develope a S/C for my baby. Just think how many of us 3rd gens want a blower. I live in CT. I would let my max be a experiment also if this would go down anywhere in the NE corner. I will let it be worked on all year while I am in college.

 

i went through the thread and got the names of everyone who offered to help or made a suggestion so far we have 13. im going to post another thread titled "Anyone who posted on the poormans charger...." this thread is getting old and thus not being read as much. Ill mail all of you that posted soon if not tonight. ive done some research and took a look at a 97 max that had a new motor put in from underneath and i was looking at how much room there is and everything kinda tight but big enough for pulleys and belts, and i might be able to score us a donor block with a broken crankshaft and/or donor heads and everything else that comes intacted with the block. but that is sketchy at the moment. we need to get organized. thanx to emax i have a list of parts that are in the stillen kit , some we will need parts similar to others will be completely different while staying with the supercharged theme. if anyones got ideas let me know im going to repost this under the new thread and hopefully we will get a larger audience.
-pete

 

do you realize how much harder this would be and how much less volume there would be. starting from scratch and building for an aging design. no way!

 

someone else could say that about our design. if i had the resources and the know-how id help you dude , but i dont , we are trying to focus on the 4th gen , if u want to try and adapt some of those things to your car ill do my best to help ya, what would be best though is learning what we learn about where to get stuff and the right way to do things so that you dont have to deal with those speed bumps on your way to boostin a 3rd gen
-pete

 

What ever happened to this project?

SuDZ

 

i realized the severe limitations of front wheel drive and the fraelty of the equipment involved. im currently trying to sell my maxima...

 

Whoa. WTF. I never saw this post back in 8/*/01 when it was first started, just saw it today, 4 months later. Whyd it get dropped so quickly. It seemed like a lot was figured out.

 

because that weekend i blew third gear in my transmission on basically a stock car, granted my driving style and my clutch didnt help things but front wheel drive will never seethe kind of traction rwd has

 

What about everyone else, there were like 15 people interested....

 

I know everyone wants a supercharger...but wouldn't it be easier to make a snail kit for the maxima?
You don't have to use someone elses patterns for brackets, if I'm not wrong you can mount it pretty much anywhere in the engine bay where space is available. I know that there is much more to this, but I'm just talking out loud...I'll sit down now before I get hurt.

 

Anything can be done really. It is justthe limitations of the people trying it. You need to get a group together who like they did on this one are going to learn alot about how certain parts work. Once that figured out then you can get into design and finish it one day., But everything has to be well organized and takes time. Most people just want things now.

SuDZ

 

I'm still interested, my biggest concern is reliability, my Max is my daily driver, I need it to run every day when my other cars dont run

 

no one followed up, i was talking to alot of people that are at the head of this whole maxima thing Brian Catts had alot of info to offer and i thank him for that, i had even sourced out places in my state to make brackets and someone had offered me discounts on materials and such. Alot of people that wanted to help seemed like they were all talk and no action, Many thanx to those of you who did help. if people still want to do this and they are willing to spend time and money then it CAN work, ill help as much as i can, i just wont be drivin a max anymore. way too expensive to make fast, insurance is too costly, not nearly enough aftermarket support. It will all ways be front wheel drive. It will never perform like a rear wheel drive car. The unibody is no where near stiff enough to take advantage of suspension modifications, while im on the subject of suspension. That massive multi-link rear end will never be as responsive as a fully independant unit. I could spend the next five years perfecting this car, I could solve the tranny and half-shalft problem with research and some elbow grease. I could get rid of that rediculous wheel hop. I could even redesign the rear suspension so that it responds the way a car should. But why spend all that time on a platform that will always flex so that the doors close funny when u jack up the front end. Why spend 800 bucks on an ECU setup for a car ill never fully understand when i could go buy a whole EFI system for a different car for 1500 bucks and tune everything myself. Why should i have 13,000 invested in a car when i can get more elsewhere. For that much money i can get an 86 M5 sedan and kick the crap out of even new maximas. Or i could get a porsche 928 s and kick the crap out of most everything. Or i could get a 1970 240z and leave it stock and have a 2200lb 150 hp beast that has been a legend for 30 years and counting. Everyone is allowed to love their car, but i cant stand the fact that people dont realize the limitations of this automobile. I have two of them im 19 i used to love them but unfortunately they arent race cars and they never will be. I need the perfection of an automobile that is only obtainable when computers werent even a concept. I hope i hit all the key points. If any of you are millionaires and youd like to drive a ten second maxima let me know and ill make it happen, till then will someone please buy my car so that i can move on

 

2000-3000 dollars to make my max run low 13s if i ran it, or just able to be one of the faster cars out there, i duno i considered it, I never meant for my Maxima to be a FAST car, its just not what I want it for, but an SC is still a great idea for those who want to make their cars FAST and those who want them just fast

 

I see what you mean about the limitations but do you really think you have the driving ability to take advantage of a really good suspension set-up?

Older M5 or 928-s? Yes very nice cars but heavy. Just wait until you have to do any kind of service on these cars. They are not new anymore and anything but a cherry example will put you back thousands in just service alone. You think insurance is high for the maxima, just wait until a 19yo tries to get insurance on one of these.

You want a set-up that would give you all you can handle? Late model 240sx w/ a turbo Ka, sr20DET, CA18-T for FJ20-T. RWD and IRS rearend. 300hp easy with the FJ and WAAAY lighter than the above you mentioned. Probably alot quicker and will handle much better. These older GT cars are not meant for handling. They were meant for autobahn high speed stability and crusing confort.

 

That's the same price I paid last year October. Looks like the price hasn't gone up since then.

 

good idea

 

It looks like that is the price it has beern holding at for a while now. I dont really expect any major changes in it.

SuDZ

 

Hook a brotha up.

 

 

hook him up with what? The tarriffs for the imported hardware? Hook with what? dos y manos? I guess I'm reading to deep into the comment

 

IM interested in helping out. I will donate funds to this. Also, aside from vortech, if they dont want to help, fine, thanks anyway, we can contact jackson racing and get something from them, if we want a turbo kit, contact garrett or some one , this sounds like an extremely hard project and a long process, but if a large company helps get the ball rolling,and helps along the way, with design and some materials, its definitely possible.
Andrew

 

Is this project still going on?