Anyone with a HHO intake kit?
05-13-2008, 01:51 PM
#161
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
Yes, you can use any metal, but they wont last, and they will oxidize and rust, especially if you use iron, or anything with high carbon in it. it will build gunk and rust in your electrolyte.
Remember, this process similar how you do gold, silver or copper platting..
dunk a copper plate or wire in your electrolyzer and see it oxidize quickly and coat every thing in there with copper. and you'll see gunk and rust all over the place...
Best metal is Stainless, 316L grade... the L stands for low carbon.
Best electrolyzer design is stan meyer tubes. especially if you are resonating the water to produce HHO efficiently (using PWM circuit),
The tubes sings when hit with correct frequency and does its best.
Remember, this process similar how you do gold, silver or copper platting..
dunk a copper plate or wire in your electrolyzer and see it oxidize quickly and coat every thing in there with copper. and you'll see gunk and rust all over the place...
Best metal is Stainless, 316L grade... the L stands for low carbon.
Best electrolyzer design is stan meyer tubes. especially if you are resonating the water to produce HHO efficiently (using PWM circuit),
The tubes sings when hit with correct frequency and does its best.
Best thing to do is to visit the junkyard to find something usable. Pretty much any metal will do, there is a slight difference with certain metals in how much electricity they put through, but steel, stainless steel will do. Stainless steel is recommended because it will last you longer.
Should be sufficient to produce enogh HHO.
Should be sufficient to produce enogh HHO.
Last edited by n0ypi; 05-13-2008 at 01:58 PM.
05-13-2008, 01:55 PM
#162
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
Well, correction... the best metal for Hydrogen production is...
Platinum.
That if you don't really care about the pricess of petrol anymore...
Platinum.
That if you don't really care about the pricess of petrol anymore...
Last edited by n0ypi; 05-13-2008 at 02:01 PM.
05-13-2008, 02:08 PM
#163
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
Kadentsev, so how did you do yours?... do have have to drill holes or any secret passages in the firewall? 
Also, where did you hook up your relay switch?
Also, where did you hook up your relay switch?
05-13-2008, 03:13 PM
#164
Dude, I did mine twice. Both times the device burnt because I used too much electrolyte. I am finishing my third device and should be done soon. So far I have not drilled the firewall, but plan to. My setup was hooked up directly to the battery which went through a fuse and through a switch which I was turning off manually. And yes, I was frequently forgetting to turn it off after I turned off the engine.
05-13-2008, 05:44 PM
#165
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
just curious, which booster design do you have?
Dude, I did mine twice. Both times the device burnt because I used too much electrolyte. I am finishing my third device and should be done soon. So far I have not drilled the firewall, but plan to. My setup was hooked up directly to the battery which went through a fuse and through a switch which I was turning off manually. And yes, I was frequently forgetting to turn it off after I turned off the engine.
05-14-2008, 04:42 AM
#167
Well, nothing really, luckily it did not kill the battery before I had the time to turn on the engine. Bet it generated quite a bit of the gas.
Might as well give a bit of an update:
This was my new device:
It was constructed out of sewage pvc pipes and a metal garbage can I found at a local hardware store. Unfortunately it did not work. The cylinder had mad air leaks all over the place, and eliminating them 100% would requre gluing the main opening to put water in.
I then spent a bit of time looking for a perfect vacuum container until I finally found it in the most unlikely place:
The Bubba Keg. This is actually a thermas, and it is quite big. In it's present state it will not fit under the hood, I will have to cut off the outer layer and remove the styrophone for it to go in. Otherwise it is air sealed and perfect for the application.
The coil that I am using is constructed out of a garbage bin as I mentioned earlier. It is a spiral design aimed to lessen the ammount of electrolyte, reduce heat, and improve the production of the gas.
Might as well give a bit of an update:
This was my new device:
It was constructed out of sewage pvc pipes and a metal garbage can I found at a local hardware store. Unfortunately it did not work. The cylinder had mad air leaks all over the place, and eliminating them 100% would requre gluing the main opening to put water in.
I then spent a bit of time looking for a perfect vacuum container until I finally found it in the most unlikely place:
The Bubba Keg. This is actually a thermas, and it is quite big. In it's present state it will not fit under the hood, I will have to cut off the outer layer and remove the styrophone for it to go in. Otherwise it is air sealed and perfect for the application.
The coil that I am using is constructed out of a garbage bin as I mentioned earlier. It is a spiral design aimed to lessen the ammount of electrolyte, reduce heat, and improve the production of the gas.
05-14-2008, 07:52 AM
#168
I then spent a bit of time looking for a perfect vacuum container until I finally found it in the most unlikely place:
The Bubba Keg. This is actually a thermas, and it is quite big. In it's present state it will not fit under the hood, I will have to cut off the outer layer and remove the styrophone for it to go in. Otherwise it is air sealed and perfect for the application.
The Bubba Keg. This is actually a thermas, and it is quite big. In it's present state it will not fit under the hood, I will have to cut off the outer layer and remove the styrophone for it to go in. Otherwise it is air sealed and perfect for the application.
That's truly hilarious. I always get a smile on my face whenever I see or anything with "Bubba" in its name.Also, fyi, for your first design pictured above, the leaking gas from the screw cap is solved by using plumber's tape on the threads. Of course, after every few times of taking off the lid you'd have to reapply the tape. So, first I'm going to get the unit mounted and working in my car, and then I'm going to work on designing a cap with a rubber lip that will push into place and then be secured and sealed with clips (like a cooler or pistachio container). I really need to take a picture of mine and I'm sorry for not doing it. I will get it up here ASAP.
Also, what chemical are you using to achieve hydrolysis? In my first design, the one with the springs, I used distilled water and salt. Ewwwww, that design disintegrated quickly and it was stainless steel. So now it sits at the bottom of my trash can.
05-14-2008, 08:33 AM
#169
The problem with these pipes is that once you screw in the cap it won't want to come out. I spent plenty of time trying to tak it out with no success. Eventually I gave up.
The electolyser I was using was baking soda, but I hear it's no good. Need to do a bit more research.
05-14-2008, 09:25 AM
#170
I used a sewer drain cap and a wrench to get mine off. You can also apply a small amount of grease to the threads to aid in getting it off. It will also act as a partial sealant in addition to the plumbers tape.
05-14-2008, 09:02 PM
#171
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
Baking soda is fine if you are just experimenting and testing your cell, but not recommended as a catalyst because it's uncontrollable when it heats up, when it heats up, it'll conduct uncontrollably, it'll blow your fuse or burn your cell, baking soda is not a true catalyst since it's getting used up in the process, also, it's not environment friendly since it gives out CO gas.
Use a true catalyst, KOH or NaOH not salt baking soda, salt or vinegar.
Use a true catalyst, KOH or NaOH not salt baking soda, salt or vinegar.
Yup, that's the reaction I was aiming for.
The problem with these pipes is that once you screw in the cap it won't want to come out. I spent plenty of time trying to tak it out with no success. Eventually I gave up.
The electolyser I was using was baking soda, but I hear it's no good. Need to do a bit more research.
The problem with these pipes is that once you screw in the cap it won't want to come out. I spent plenty of time trying to tak it out with no success. Eventually I gave up.
The electolyser I was using was baking soda, but I hear it's no good. Need to do a bit more research.
05-14-2008, 11:23 PM
#172
Hey. I have almost completed the construction of my smack device. I had one complication, I can only fit 6 arrays of 2 plates in the pvc tubing. This is no big deal, it will just make a little less gas. It is not very cosmetically pleasing but will work. I will hopefully have this finished by tomorrow; I just have to make the second stainless steel strap. My KHO should be arriving sometime soon so I will test it then.
Last edited by Powerman5115; 05-15-2008 at 09:34 AM.
05-15-2008, 12:09 AM
#173
Dude, I did mine twice. Both times the device burnt because I used too much electrolyte. I am finishing my third device and should be done soon. So far I have not drilled the firewall, but plan to. My setup was hooked up directly to the battery which went through a fuse and through a switch which I was turning off manually. And yes, I was frequently forgetting to turn it off after I turned off the engine.
)to achieve similar results, the $80 is just for the metal, you would still need your plumbing and wiring scheme, and it looks like you need 8 ga. going to each metal tube. It's a serious design. Here is a simple design and cheap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xam5-_ZU0h4Here is an interesting video as well from time frame 2:20 on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhfuk...eature=related
05-15-2008, 10:41 AM
#175
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
Nice Powerman,
since you removed one floating cell (pair of plates) on each side, your booster may heat up quickly, each cell are actually now conducing around 4.3v each insted of 3v. To generate HHO efficiently, you should be between 1.5 to 2v on each cell. Smack original design is 3.25v on each cell (on a 13v batt), there's already wasted energy and the extra 2v (1v each side) on each side goes to heat but he address this by cell spacing, if you'll be taking 2 more cells out, it'll heat it up quickly.
Your options:
1.) What you can do is just remove the extra nut (in the middle where the negative is) and add the cell you took out, this might fit in the 4" pvc.
2.) Or, increase the spacing of each cell. the amps (and voltage) would go down a little bit on each cell.
since you removed one floating cell (pair of plates) on each side, your booster may heat up quickly, each cell are actually now conducing around 4.3v each insted of 3v. To generate HHO efficiently, you should be between 1.5 to 2v on each cell. Smack original design is 3.25v on each cell (on a 13v batt), there's already wasted energy and the extra 2v (1v each side) on each side goes to heat but he address this by cell spacing, if you'll be taking 2 more cells out, it'll heat it up quickly.
Your options:
1.) What you can do is just remove the extra nut (in the middle where the negative is) and add the cell you took out, this might fit in the 4" pvc.
2.) Or, increase the spacing of each cell. the amps (and voltage) would go down a little bit on each cell.
Hey. I have almost completed the construction of my smack device. I had one complication, I can only fit 6 arrays of 2 plates in the pvc tubing. This is no big deal, it will just make a little less gas. It is not very cosmetically pleasing but will work. I will hopefully have this finished by tomorrow; I just have to make the second stainless steel strap. My KHO should be arriving sometime soon so I will test it then.
Last edited by n0ypi; 05-15-2008 at 11:33 AM.
05-15-2008, 01:55 PM
#176
That's not a bad idea about removing the nuts. I could add two or three washers to keep the spacing in the plates. Would it be better to add resistors to get 1.5v-2v across each set of plates; or 6v-8v total flowing into the cell?
Edit: That idea didn't work. It is still just too big to fit in. I am going to replace all of the nuts with washers and hopefully that will fix my problem. I will still keep the 4 nuts on all the end points.
Edit: That idea didn't work. It is still just too big to fit in. I am going to replace all of the nuts with washers and hopefully that will fix my problem. I will still keep the 4 nuts on all the end points.
Last edited by Powerman5115; 05-15-2008 at 05:59 PM.
05-15-2008, 08:15 PM
#177
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
You can also remove the middle nuts completely and just use SS washers.
Yes, you can add resistor to drop the voltage, but why? resistor converts the wasted energy to heat too... same problem.
or, just add more spacers in between the cell... add another nylon washer.
or better, you can use less catalyst, so the cell wont conduct too much current, you may have to experiment with this to find the right quantity.
I prefer 6 series cell (7plates), that is actually about 2v per cell, you can try this configuration instead. I like this config better than smack, produce more HHO. I'm using 3-5mm plate spacing, less nuts too, this config uses less catalyst too (smack needs 3x catalyst to get the same current). I use 1/4 threaded rod instead of 5/16, this means I dont have to widen the holes of the wall plates, only debur the protruding edges and not drill all the way, and 1/4 threaded rod fits. Less work. I find smack a little fancy and overdone actually, but that's just me.
One Series 6cell:
+NNNNN-
or two Series 6cell, if it fits your container.
+NNNNN-NNNNN+
Yes, you can add resistor to drop the voltage, but why? resistor converts the wasted energy to heat too... same problem.
or, just add more spacers in between the cell... add another nylon washer.
or better, you can use less catalyst, so the cell wont conduct too much current, you may have to experiment with this to find the right quantity.
I prefer 6 series cell (7plates), that is actually about 2v per cell, you can try this configuration instead. I like this config better than smack, produce more HHO. I'm using 3-5mm plate spacing, less nuts too, this config uses less catalyst too (smack needs 3x catalyst to get the same current). I use 1/4 threaded rod instead of 5/16, this means I dont have to widen the holes of the wall plates, only debur the protruding edges and not drill all the way, and 1/4 threaded rod fits. Less work. I find smack a little fancy and overdone actually, but that's just me.
One Series 6cell:
+NNNNN-
or two Series 6cell, if it fits your container.
+NNNNN-NNNNN+
That's not a bad idea about removing the nuts. I could add two or three washers to keep the spacing in the plates. Would it be better to add resistors to get 1.5v-2v across each set of plates; or 6v-8v total flowing into the cell?
Edit: That idea didn't work. It is still just too big to fit in. I am going to replace all of the nuts with washers and hopefully that will fix my problem. I will still keep the 4 nuts on all the end points.
Edit: That idea didn't work. It is still just too big to fit in. I am going to replace all of the nuts with washers and hopefully that will fix my problem. I will still keep the 4 nuts on all the end points.
Last edited by n0ypi; 05-15-2008 at 08:41 PM.
05-19-2008, 11:55 AM
#180
Recieved my EFIE's today but I'm 
If the EFIE alters my O2 sensor readings, what happens when I start my car up in the morning. The HHO will need a moments time to make H2 and the EFIE's will report a good mixture to the ECU. So does that mean I might have difficulty starting my car or running it while cold?
If the EFIE alters my O2 sensor readings, what happens when I start my car up in the morning. The HHO will need a moments time to make H2 and the EFIE's will report a good mixture to the ECU. So does that mean I might have difficulty starting my car or running it while cold?
05-19-2008, 12:02 PM
#181
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 8
Gentleman, this is exactly what i was looking for as far as real info... Before I forget, Hi Im new!
I started out looking at BioDiesel from Veggie oil, and then started looking at HHO after realizing the cost was out of reach for the BioDiesel at the moment.
You guys have raised my hope with this discussion about the HHO. I must say, I am glad I read this thread in its entirety before going with Water4Gas. Of course, since I have had difficulty in finding sites which offer cheap kits, may I ask where a good place to start would be?
Is the Smack Kit the same thing? i would prefer to start off with a pre made kit being a newb with out much time for initiat experimentation...
I started out looking at BioDiesel from Veggie oil, and then started looking at HHO after realizing the cost was out of reach for the BioDiesel at the moment.
You guys have raised my hope with this discussion about the HHO. I must say, I am glad I read this thread in its entirety before going with Water4Gas. Of course, since I have had difficulty in finding sites which offer cheap kits, may I ask where a good place to start would be?
Is the Smack Kit the same thing? i would prefer to start off with a pre made kit being a newb with out much time for initiat experimentation...
05-19-2008, 12:09 PM
#182
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 8
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05-19-2008, 12:21 PM
#183
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 8
I was thinking I may go with these little gems as apposed to mesing with my computer.
"Protium Oxyisolator" maybye you guys didnt see them.. Dont know.
http://www.protiumfuelsystems.com/oxyisolator.html
"Protium Oxyisolator" maybye you guys didnt see them.. Dont know.
http://www.protiumfuelsystems.com/oxyisolator.html
05-19-2008, 01:21 PM
#184
I wouldn't go with that, seems phony-bologna if you ask me. The EFIE gives you the ability to fine tune the signal and achieve max fuel efficiency. Also, water4gas is a rip and a half. Go with a Stan Meyers device or Smack device since they are made really well. Just my $.02
05-20-2008, 07:02 AM
#185
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 8
Hmmf, I would have thought that being it was made by the sae company making the tuners it would have been worth the shot....
I was looking at the smack site yesturday that one of you guys linked and could not find any plans on the device they are putting together....
I was looking at the smack site yesturday that one of you guys linked and could not find any plans on the device they are putting together....
05-20-2008, 07:23 AM
#186
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
just got busy... . I forgot to mention that the container of a series cell plays a major role. A true series cell should compartamentalize the water for each set of plates so the current wont jump all the way to the electrodes terminals, avoiding current leaks, and to make sure the neutral plates wont get bypassed.. kinda hard to explain, but here's a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHjSfv15KY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u03hPyGaMFU
my series cell (core) doesn't have the container anymore (it retire itself) since it's difficult to construct, I'm using this series cell in an open bath container (not comparamentalize) at the moment, i'll post it anyway later for you to see, it's just a simple cell same material from smack... will construct a container again later., there's some progress in my altima too, i'll post some pictures too later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHjSfv15KY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u03hPyGaMFU
my series cell (core) doesn't have the container anymore (it retire itself) since it's difficult to construct, I'm using this series cell in an open bath container (not comparamentalize) at the moment, i'll post it anyway later for you to see, it's just a simple cell same material from smack... will construct a container again later., there's some progress in my altima too, i'll post some pictures too later.
Last edited by n0ypi; 05-20-2008 at 07:35 AM.
05-20-2008, 07:30 AM
#187
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
Yes, moving the O2 sensor away works to... dont expect your car will be ok after you plug this and walk away. You have to find the suite spot, use an oscilloscope or a meter to check the signal to adjust the lean or rich condition, then lock it there where you want it to be, andl allows it to still function as designed by the manufacturer.
Haven't done this in my car yet, but I know lots of friends who are doing this.
Remember, if you use a custom EFIE not from the manufacturer,
it is a Federal and in most States a crime to alter, change, modify
or disable any engine devices or emissions systems. Repeat offenses
are very severe. Of course, you'll remove this EFIE before your car inspection.
You dont really need to buy anything, if you have an old spark plug, just remove the ceramic part, the Spark Plug non-fouler (metal body) is whre you have to insert the O2sensor, it should snug nicely in there.
The metal body is what this guys are selling... if you look closely, it's similar to the Spark Plug non-fouler
Haven't done this in my car yet, but I know lots of friends who are doing this.
Remember, if you use a custom EFIE not from the manufacturer,
it is a Federal and in most States a crime to alter, change, modify
or disable any engine devices or emissions systems. Repeat offenses
are very severe. Of course, you'll remove this EFIE before your car inspection.
You dont really need to buy anything, if you have an old spark plug, just remove the ceramic part, the Spark Plug non-fouler (metal body) is whre you have to insert the O2sensor, it should snug nicely in there.
The metal body is what this guys are selling... if you look closely, it's similar to the Spark Plug non-fouler
I was thinking I may go with these little gems as apposed to mesing with my computer.
"Protium Oxyisolator" maybye you guys didnt see them.. Dont know.
http://www.protiumfuelsystems.com/oxyisolator.html
"Protium Oxyisolator" maybye you guys didnt see them.. Dont know.
http://www.protiumfuelsystems.com/oxyisolator.html
Last edited by n0ypi; 05-20-2008 at 08:01 AM.
05-20-2008, 07:38 AM
#188
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New Bedford, MA
Posts: 55
**** hydrogen, i dont know about any of you guys but i can live with $4.00 a gallon, not that i like too but its reality
05-20-2008, 09:45 AM
#192
I wouldn't go with that, seems phony-bologna if you ask me. The EFIE gives you the ability to fine tune the signal and achieve max fuel efficiency. Also, water4gas is a rip and a half. Go with a Stan Meyers device or Smack device since they are made really well. Just my $.02
05-20-2008, 10:01 AM
#193
Originally Posted by sicivic89
So how would we fine tune the car with the EFIE?
05-20-2008, 10:06 AM
#194
What sort of gains have been seen? Any? I'm really just curious. If I granny it, I can get ~25mpg mixed city/highway and around 27 highway.
Last edited by mowgli29; 05-20-2008 at 10:10 AM.
05-20-2008, 10:32 AM
#195
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 73
We are curious tinkerers, experimenters, researchers, and this is part of our hobby, and along the way, we do spend more money.
We all have different philosopy, You are free to nurse oil companies as long as you want. We dont care.
If you are curious to know, and like us, do build one. If you are skeptical, pls stop there, because no matter how much gain other people made for doing this, you still wont believe it. Nobody can convince you but yourself. We are not here to convince you either.
Here's a start for you... go to to google... and type in "Stan Meyers" or "Daniel Dingel".
We all have different philosopy, You are free to nurse oil companies as long as you want. We dont care.
If you are curious to know, and like us, do build one. If you are skeptical, pls stop there, because no matter how much gain other people made for doing this, you still wont believe it. Nobody can convince you but yourself. We are not here to convince you either.
Here's a start for you... go to to google... and type in "Stan Meyers" or "Daniel Dingel".
I'm kinda with him on this one... I'd rather just keep my foot out of it than spend all this time and money jerry-rigging my car. I'm sorry but some of these contraptions are hideous and I have yet to see them yield amazing results...
What sort of gains have been seen? Any? I'm really just curious. If I granny it, I can get ~25mpg mixed city/highway and around 27 highway.
What sort of gains have been seen? Any? I'm really just curious. If I granny it, I can get ~25mpg mixed city/highway and around 27 highway.
Last edited by n0ypi; 05-20-2008 at 10:42 AM.
05-20-2008, 10:45 AM
#198
If you are curious to know, and like us, do build one. If you are skeptical, pls stop there, because no matter how much gain other people made for doing this, you still wont believe it.Nobody can convince you but yourself. We are not here to convince you either.
Here's a start for you... go to to google... and type in "Stan Meyers" or "Daniel Dingel".
I'm not trying to pick a fight, nor am I knocking what everyone here is doing. I have to give it to you guys for trying. People like me would never know the outcome, good or bad, without experimenters like you guys. Hats off to you and good luck with the experimentation.
Last edited by mowgli29; 05-20-2008 at 10:47 AM.
05-20-2008, 10:46 AM
#199
^^^Is the point of this exercise to "free our dependencies on oil", or to save money???
If you want to lower your dependency, you could start by not drivin a freakin Maxima... a Sentra or Civic will get you around much more efficiently by virtue of their smaller engines and lighter bodies
Plus the money spent to dyno, buy the equipment, etc will prob. cost a couple hundred dollars that you will never get back in gas savings.
I dunno, just seems pointless to me.
If you want to lower your dependency, you could start by not drivin a freakin Maxima... a Sentra or Civic will get you around much more efficiently by virtue of their smaller engines and lighter bodies
Plus the money spent to dyno, buy the equipment, etc will prob. cost a couple hundred dollars that you will never get back in gas savings.
I dunno, just seems pointless to me.
