Bushings
12-17-2001, 11:00 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,277
I haven't had any problems with the end link bushings in the 2 years I've had them on, but the first set of front bar bushings tore on me after the first two weeks. The slit in the bushings MUST be installed in the same orientation as the OEM bushings (IIRC,facing the front).
On the autocross track, I am begining to believe they detract from the handling. Maxima's are notorious for severe understeer at their handling limits. The way to tune anti-roll bars to lessen understeer is tighten the rear bar and loosen the front. By adding urethane bushings to the front you are tightening, not loosening the front.
On the autocross track, I am begining to believe they detract from the handling. Maxima's are notorious for severe understeer at their handling limits. The way to tune anti-roll bars to lessen understeer is tighten the rear bar and loosen the front. By adding urethane bushings to the front you are tightening, not loosening the front.
12-17-2001, 11:33 AM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Originally posted by sinewave
I haven't had any problems with the end link bushings in the 2 years I've had them on, but the first set of front bar bushings tore on me after the first two weeks. The slit in the bushings MUST be installed in the same orientation as the OEM bushings (IIRC,facing the front).
On the autocross track, I am begining to believe they detract from the handling. Maxima's are notorious for severe understeer at their handling limits. The way to tune anti-roll bars to lessen understeer is tighten the rear bar and loosen the front. By adding urethane bushings to the front you are tightening, not loosening the front.
I haven't had any problems with the end link bushings in the 2 years I've had them on, but the first set of front bar bushings tore on me after the first two weeks. The slit in the bushings MUST be installed in the same orientation as the OEM bushings (IIRC,facing the front).
On the autocross track, I am begining to believe they detract from the handling. Maxima's are notorious for severe understeer at their handling limits. The way to tune anti-roll bars to lessen understeer is tighten the rear bar and loosen the front. By adding urethane bushings to the front you are tightening, not loosening the front.
could you please clarify what you mean by IIRC has to face the front. i'm having mine installed this thursday (if my order comes in) and i don't want the same thing happening. you are referring to the front sway bar bushings, right?
i'm also having the control arm bushing replaced. do you think this will improve the car's inability to drive straight on rough payment. i noticed that ever since i lowered the car and gotten wide low profile tires, the car has a tendency to follow groves on the road. at first i thought this was normal, but i noticed that my wife's car does not do this although it has the 235/45/17 tires. any thoughts or experience on this?
jhlee
12-17-2001, 11:34 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Originally posted by AznStevie
got them and love them hehe.... u'll actually notice the improvement
good bang for the money. just make sure u oil the bushing so it won't crack
got them and love them hehe.... u'll actually notice the improvement
good bang for the money. just make sure u oil the bushing so it won't crack
jhlee
12-17-2001, 01:08 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,277
The front bar bushings, both stock and Energy Suspension, are cut all the way through on one side so that you can slip them on the bar without having to remove the ends. I got one of the first sets available from Courtesy Nissan and they tore after a few weeks. They sent me a new set and told me that the slit must be oriented towards the front of the car (the same as the factory bushings) to prevent this from happening again. I don't know if this was just BS and they really had manufacturing problems with the first batch or if it was legit, but I haven't had any problems since.
12-17-2001, 03:58 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Originally posted by sinewave
The front bar bushings, both stock and Energy Suspension, are cut all the way through on one side so that you can slip them on the bar without having to remove the ends. I got one of the first sets available from Courtesy Nissan and they tore after a few weeks. They sent me a new set and told me that the slit must be oriented towards the front of the car (the same as the factory bushings) to prevent this from happening again. I don't know if this was just BS and they really had manufacturing problems with the first batch or if it was legit, but I haven't had any problems since.
The front bar bushings, both stock and Energy Suspension, are cut all the way through on one side so that you can slip them on the bar without having to remove the ends. I got one of the first sets available from Courtesy Nissan and they tore after a few weeks. They sent me a new set and told me that the slit must be oriented towards the front of the car (the same as the factory bushings) to prevent this from happening again. I don't know if this was just BS and they really had manufacturing problems with the first batch or if it was legit, but I haven't had any problems since.
jhlee
12-17-2001, 04:12 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,277
I did them in less than an hour. It takes very little skill and just a few tools.
1. Jack up the car and place on jack stands.
2. Remove both front wheels.
3. On one side, remove the two bolts holding the bar clamp and bushing.
4. On the same side, remove the one nut on the top of the end link. Use a wrench on the end link to keep from twisting while you do this.
5. Repeat on the other side.
6. Slip the new bar bushings on the bar and replace the bar clamps. Leave the bolts loose.
7. Slip the new end link bushings on and leave the nuts loose.
8. Tighten the bar clamp bolts, then tighten the end link nuts.
If you can do an oil change and IF you have the right tools (jack stands and metric sockets) you can do this.
Heck, for what you save by doing it yourself, you could go out and buy all the tools you need and still have money left over.
1. Jack up the car and place on jack stands.
2. Remove both front wheels.
3. On one side, remove the two bolts holding the bar clamp and bushing.
4. On the same side, remove the one nut on the top of the end link. Use a wrench on the end link to keep from twisting while you do this.
5. Repeat on the other side.
6. Slip the new bar bushings on the bar and replace the bar clamps. Leave the bolts loose.
7. Slip the new end link bushings on and leave the nuts loose.
8. Tighten the bar clamp bolts, then tighten the end link nuts.
If you can do an oil change and IF you have the right tools (jack stands and metric sockets) you can do this.
Heck, for what you save by doing it yourself, you could go out and buy all the tools you need and still have money left over.
12-17-2001, 04:45 PM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Originally posted by sinewave
I did them in less than an hour. It takes very little skill and just a few tools.
1. Jack up the car and place on jack stands.
2. Remove both front wheels.
3. On one side, remove the two bolts holding the bar clamp and bushing.
4. On the same side, remove the one nut on the top of the end link. Use a wrench on the end link to keep from twisting while you do this.
5. Repeat on the other side.
6. Slip the new bar bushings on the bar and replace the bar clamps. Leave the bolts loose.
7. Slip the new end link bushings on and leave the nuts loose.
8. Tighten the bar clamp bolts, then tighten the end link nuts.
If you can do an oil change and IF you have the right tools (jack stands and metric sockets) you can do this.
Heck, for what you save by doing it yourself, you could go out and buy all the tools you need and still have money left over.
I did them in less than an hour. It takes very little skill and just a few tools.
1. Jack up the car and place on jack stands.
2. Remove both front wheels.
3. On one side, remove the two bolts holding the bar clamp and bushing.
4. On the same side, remove the one nut on the top of the end link. Use a wrench on the end link to keep from twisting while you do this.
5. Repeat on the other side.
6. Slip the new bar bushings on the bar and replace the bar clamps. Leave the bolts loose.
7. Slip the new end link bushings on and leave the nuts loose.
8. Tighten the bar clamp bolts, then tighten the end link nuts.
If you can do an oil change and IF you have the right tools (jack stands and metric sockets) you can do this.
Heck, for what you save by doing it yourself, you could go out and buy all the tools you need and still have money left over.
what do you mean by endlink? control arm? sway bar? is it something else?
jhlee
12-17-2001, 05:03 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,277
The FSB (actually it's correct name is anti-roll bar) is in the shape of an elongated "U". On each end, the bar is flat with a hole drilled through it. The bar is attached to the chassis on the bottom part of the "U" with two clamps. Each of these clamps are visible inside the wheel wells. The end link is a specially machined "bolt" with threads and a nut that go through the hole in the end of the bar. An end link bushing goes on either side of the bar end. The lower part of the end link has a knuckle on the end (similar to a tie-rod end) that attaches to the lower control arm.
12-17-2001, 05:19 PM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Originally posted by sinewave
The FSB (actually it's correct name is anti-roll bar) is in the shape of an elongated "U". On each end, the bar is flat with a hole drilled through it. The bar is attached to the chassis on the bottom part of the "U" with two clamps. Each of these clamps are visible inside the wheel wells. The end link is a specially machined "bolt" with threads and a nut that go through the hole in the end of the bar. An end link bushing goes on either side of the bar end. The lower part of the end link has a knuckle on the end (similar to a tie-rod end) that attaches to the lower control arm.
The FSB (actually it's correct name is anti-roll bar) is in the shape of an elongated "U". On each end, the bar is flat with a hole drilled through it. The bar is attached to the chassis on the bottom part of the "U" with two clamps. Each of these clamps are visible inside the wheel wells. The end link is a specially machined "bolt" with threads and a nut that go through the hole in the end of the bar. An end link bushing goes on either side of the bar end. The lower part of the end link has a knuckle on the end (similar to a tie-rod end) that attaches to the lower control arm.
thanks! great stuff! you should put a little more details to your instructions and submitted to the org so others can benefit from your experience.
so, just to clarify, your instructions were for "endlink" or FSB bushing replacements, right? if so, is it just as easy to replace the control arm bushings? more then the endlink bushings, i want the control arm bushings replaced. from reading an article in Sport Compact Cars last month, this really seemed to help the project car (btw, it as dodge neon project article). from reading the article, my car is suffering from similiar faults in handling, so i figure replacing the control arm bushings may be the cure (hopefully).
jhlee
12-17-2001, 05:48 PM
#14
Control arm bushings
This refers only to aftermarket control arm bushings ie. Energy Suspension's. Just happened to get this from Barry Chafin who was working with Courtesy Nissan and E.S. on this. Here's his reply -
"I'll have to defer to Courtesy on the Control Arm Bushings... we put a lot of money into the development and test process and, last I heard, we don't have a commercially viable product"
According to Courtesy, E.S. #7-3111G had a fittiment problem and they've stopped selling them.
Unless anybody else has a source, replacing with new Nissan bushings is our only choice for now.
"I'll have to defer to Courtesy on the Control Arm Bushings... we put a lot of money into the development and test process and, last I heard, we don't have a commercially viable product"
According to Courtesy, E.S. #7-3111G had a fittiment problem and they've stopped selling them.
Unless anybody else has a source, replacing with new Nissan bushings is our only choice for now.
12-17-2001, 05:59 PM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Re: Control arm bushings
Originally posted by BEJAY1
This refers only to aftermarket control arm bushings ie. Energy Suspension's. Just happened to get this from Barry Chafin who was working with Courtesy Nissan and E.S. on this. Here's his reply -
"I'll have to defer to Courtesy on the Control Arm Bushings... we put a lot of money into the development and test process and, last I heard, we don't have a commercially viable product"
According to Courtesy, E.S. #7-3111G had a fittiment problem and they've stopped selling them.
Unless anybody else has a source, replacing with new Nissan bushings is our only choice for now.
This refers only to aftermarket control arm bushings ie. Energy Suspension's. Just happened to get this from Barry Chafin who was working with Courtesy Nissan and E.S. on this. Here's his reply -
"I'll have to defer to Courtesy on the Control Arm Bushings... we put a lot of money into the development and test process and, last I heard, we don't have a commercially viable product"
According to Courtesy, E.S. #7-3111G had a fittiment problem and they've stopped selling them.
Unless anybody else has a source, replacing with new Nissan bushings is our only choice for now.
dang! either way this sucks. i've already paid $100 to special order these and there are no refunds for special orders!!! i'll need to call energy and find out!
thx for the info!
jhlee
12-17-2001, 07:41 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,277
Originally posted by jhlee_99
sinewave,
thanks! great stuff! you should put a little more details to your instructions and submitted to the org so others can benefit from your experience.
so, just to clarify, your instructions were for "endlink" or FSB bushing replacements, right? if so, is it just as easy to replace the control arm bushings? more then the endlink bushings, i want the control arm bushings replaced. from reading an article in Sport Compact Cars last month, this really seemed to help the project car (btw, it as dodge neon project article). from reading the article, my car is suffering from similiar faults in handling, so i figure replacing the control arm bushings may be the cure (hopefully).
jhlee
sinewave,
thanks! great stuff! you should put a little more details to your instructions and submitted to the org so others can benefit from your experience.
so, just to clarify, your instructions were for "endlink" or FSB bushing replacements, right? if so, is it just as easy to replace the control arm bushings? more then the endlink bushings, i want the control arm bushings replaced. from reading an article in Sport Compact Cars last month, this really seemed to help the project car (btw, it as dodge neon project article). from reading the article, my car is suffering from similiar faults in handling, so i figure replacing the control arm bushings may be the cure (hopefully).
jhlee
12-17-2001, 07:51 PM
#17
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 577
Hello:
I put both these bushings in -- anti roll bar and control arm bushings -- I got no issues --
As for handling balance?? The maximas understeer heavily at their limits because the stock bushings have so much slack in them --
Once the slack is taken up with "at the limit" handling, there won't be much of a difference in balance between stock bushings and urethane bushings. More consistent performance could be derived by a smaller antiroll bar with urethane bushings.
Better off to start with the rear end mods like anti-roll bar and strut tower bar before working on the front -- Those two mods alone begin to heavily transform the feel of the car going into turns.
Then throw on some front camber bolts from Eibach (available from Ground Control Suspension) to increase the front end grip and then things start to get interesting.
cjvurnis
I put both these bushings in -- anti roll bar and control arm bushings -- I got no issues --
As for handling balance?? The maximas understeer heavily at their limits because the stock bushings have so much slack in them --
Once the slack is taken up with "at the limit" handling, there won't be much of a difference in balance between stock bushings and urethane bushings. More consistent performance could be derived by a smaller antiroll bar with urethane bushings.
Better off to start with the rear end mods like anti-roll bar and strut tower bar before working on the front -- Those two mods alone begin to heavily transform the feel of the car going into turns.
Then throw on some front camber bolts from Eibach (available from Ground Control Suspension) to increase the front end grip and then things start to get interesting.
cjvurnis
12-17-2001, 08:18 PM
#18
Originally posted by chris j vurnis
Hello:
I put both these bushings in -- anti roll bar and control arm bushings -- I got no issues --
cjvurnis
Hello:
I put both these bushings in -- anti roll bar and control arm bushings -- I got no issues --
cjvurnis
The info I got is pretty recent. Courtesy told me the bad news about the E.S. in October. Barry just confirmed it today but has Courtesy management getting the latest.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/chafin/
P.S. Either way $100 was way too much
http://www.suspension.com/nissancars.htm
12-17-2001, 09:08 PM
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Originally posted by BEJAY1
Chris, I assume you replaced your control arm bushings with new Nissan ones right?
The info I got is pretty recent. Courtesy told me the bad news about the E.S. in October. Barry just confirmed it today but has Courtesy management getting the latest.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/chafin/
P.S. Either way $100 was way too much
http://www.suspension.com/nissancars.htm
Chris, I assume you replaced your control arm bushings with new Nissan ones right?
The info I got is pretty recent. Courtesy told me the bad news about the E.S. in October. Barry just confirmed it today but has Courtesy management getting the latest.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/chafin/
P.S. Either way $100 was way too much
http://www.suspension.com/nissancars.htm
is OEMs, well, forget it. i'll just keep my old bushings.
bejay1, did courtesy reply via org forum or emails? if forum, how can find the tread?
btw, the $100 was a deposit only. i think the total for installing both FSB bushings and control arm bushing is about $150 (labor). they are charging me $45 for the control arm bushings and $9.90 for the FSB bushings. it's a little more then what suspension.com charges, but i figure after shipping it's a wash. hopefully, it's all worth it!
jhlee
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