Gauging Interest in a 3" exhaust from Cattman
08-21-2011, 01:14 AM
#481
Let's just cut to the chase. No time or desire to write a book. We made one batch, and the catbacks that were not purchased immediately sat on the shelf for months until the last one was sold.
If we were to make them again, I'd take all this information into account, but 1) we are not, and 2) I am not going to spend $8000 for parts and shipping and send them out free. End of story.
Move on everybody, there's nothing to see here. Subject is closed.
If we were to make them again, I'd take all this information into account, but 1) we are not, and 2) I am not going to spend $8000 for parts and shipping and send them out free. End of story.
Move on everybody, there's nothing to see here. Subject is closed.
End of story? Move on everybody? You sure would like that wouldn't you..
Nothing to see here? I beg to differ. There's plenty to see here.
Subject is closed? Nope. Just cracked it wiiiiiiide open.
That is possibly the worst way to handle business Brian. Your decision to just ignore all the problems and work your way around it is some shady *** ****, plain and simple. Even though I did not participate in this group buy, the whole situation pisses me off especially the way you're handling everything. Im new to the forum, but I saw a lot of threads about your "quality" work which swayed me towards buying a cattman header for my car. I can now honestly say that I will NEVER buy a cattman product for my car. Your attitude about the whole situation is surprising. You're trying to find any way possible to beat around the bush and come up with these stupid excuses that are not solving anything and digging yourself in a deeper hole. Funny thing is, Im sure that if you were in the situation they were in, you'd be crying for your money back or at least be asking for some type of compensation. You know you made a huge mistake on these, but dont want to admit it because you feel that it will ruin your image or then make it feel like it is on you to fix the problem. But by your actions, its obvious that you dont care to fix the problem and *feel you* have better things to do than to repair the problems the forum members are dealing with.
Wow can't believe what I'm hearin about cattmann products, I was gonna get a complete setup from headers to tip an honestly unless someone gives me one, I won't be sending my hard earned cash to a man that has no care for the people that have helped him build his company an bank account!! Man up Brian stop with the bs an fix what's wrong!! An I definitely say get a new fabricator cause apparently he doesn't care as much as you do, If he did he would've not made the b pipe before the wiz got there.
Fellas, thanks for taking to time to read my lengthy reply and share how you feel about the situation.
08-21-2011, 04:24 AM
#482
Np bruh! I want to kno everything about the products ima put on my car an spend my hard earned cash on, I have to for my self an for the most precious cargo my max carries...my daughter! Altho an exhaust has no effect on safety but as all parts it's the principle of the fact that we want the best that our money can buy, now if there was already talk about the exhaust banging or what not wayyyyyyy before production or from the test fitting session an there's was nothing to do about it then It's on us weither or not to spend the money on it, but to out rite say he's not goin to do a thing about it makes me not want to spend the money. I wonder how he treats warranty work.
Wiz, I would love to have my max like yours someday, that's why I read your whole post as to learn as much as possible to eventually reach that goal!!
Wiz, I would love to have my max like yours someday, that's why I read your whole post as to learn as much as possible to eventually reach that goal!!
08-21-2011, 07:30 AM
#483
Black Lion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ, Down by the River
Posts: 2,684
I was one of the first people to get one of these 3" exhausts and had absolutely no problems with mine. The tip sticks out a little bit far, but then again, i have a '95, and I expected it. The fitment is a little bit tight around my rear sway bar / trailing arm area as well. I used stock hangers and tightened pipe clamps for final fitment only at the muffler and locked the rest in place by putting clamps on the rest of the hangers only to restrict movement beyond the static hanging position. I never had any banging whatsoever including driving on some of the crappiest roads in my area.
I honestly I dont think a free replacements is the right thing to do. Of couse a perfect fitment would be ideal but being off just slightly really isnt that bad, especially when the issues can be fixed by a local exhaust shop.
Even my custom 3" that was built on the car had some banging issues that I had to go back and have corrected.
I think everyone is aware that aftermarket parts dont always fit perfectly, I think everyone just expected it since it was coming from Cattman. However I think everyone kind of forgot also that this was still a newly designed part which usually will have some issues to work out.
Look at the multiple designs of the Cattman headers.
Even my custom 3" that was built on the car had some banging issues that I had to go back and have corrected.
I think everyone is aware that aftermarket parts dont always fit perfectly, I think everyone just expected it since it was coming from Cattman. However I think everyone kind of forgot also that this was still a newly designed part which usually will have some issues to work out.
Look at the multiple designs of the Cattman headers.
Wiz, Im glad you took out the time to really explain in detail everything you experienced in the entire design process, reiterating my post and giving your thoughts on them. It just dawned on me how my mechanic at Nissan was saying the bend on the bpipe was a bit off and thats what was causing my problem.. well he was exactly right. If the Bpipe was centered in the chase as you and Ptatohead said, I wouldn't have had the clearance issue with my 02 sensor in the resonator to begin with. That still would not have corrected my exhaust tip placement but that was another issue.
Its so disappointing the way our complaints are being handling, being totally dismissed, making statements such as "bad installation", and a ton of other excuses. Customer service goes a long way and Im sure after people continue to read this thread, people will go else where for exhaust parts unless they get a product that Cattman will stand by. Simply, people will vote with their dollar as an economist would say.
Moreover, I am happy with my Cattman products. However, I am extremely unhappy with the customer service regarding my issues with the 3" Catback. Even though they are now corrected by myself and a local exhaust shop, the extra expense I had to cover leaves a bad taste in mouth.
Last edited by maxprivate; 08-21-2011 at 07:34 AM.
08-21-2011, 11:21 AM
#484
I'm leery of posting this, but with all the opinions floating around, why not.
I'm not going to say i'm fortunate, and this is what I'm having a hard time understanding with you guys and your fitment problems. There were fitment issues with mine. When I put it on, it was all but resting on the tailing arm. I'm no professional exhaust installer or anything of the sort, but I do all my work myself with extra hands as necessary from friends. I installed my exhaust with a couple of jack stands by myself.
My thing is that I think that most of the problems you guys are having (Wiz in particular), is that you guys used those harder/solid exhaust hangers leaving no room for adjustment. I went out and bought them too after seeing the recommendations from Brian. When I bolted everything in place, the muffler wasn't close to center and was touching/bending-in my bumper. So i knew I was going to need to adjust the hangers, and they really couldn't be compressed enough to do any type of adjustments (which would leave bending the hanger rods as the only option). Most of the misalignment I experienced started from the 90* bend on the B-pipe which was extrapolated by the time it got to the muffler. I swapped back to my original hangers and i started at the muffler, like i posted before, and used just simple worm gear piping clamps to start centering up the exhaust from the farthest rear, driver's side hanger. Then I used another one on the passenger side and adjusted the overall height of the tip. Just from adjusting those 2 points gained me almost 3/4" of clearance over the 1/2" I had to begin with at the trailing arm. The exhaust was pointing upward a little bit so I tightened up clamps on the rear of the muffler a little bit (which slackened up the hanger at the b-pipe bend). So i put a clamp on it and just snugged it up to that point so it had some resistance from moving and viola.
This wasn't rocket science, and don't take that as me calling you guys stupid or anything like that because I know you aren't, but it wasn't exactly something that made me come cry to the forums about bad fitment. Would I have liked to simply bolt it up and it fit perfectly? You bet. However, even though these are made by a company, they are still a limited batch of custom exhausts, and I expected to have to work a little bit to make it perfect.
One thing that concerns me Wizard is in here:
It's not a perfect world, never has been, nor will it ever be. You also forgot plan D and E. Plan D would have been, if you were so dissatisfied with the product, would have been to send it back for a refund. Plan E would have been to work on it yourself and try to get it aligned instead of going to a shop (or trying to make other people pay for you to take it to a shop).
Could I have left my exhaust the way it bolted up the first time? Sure. It wouldn't have looked right and probably banged around a lot. I wasted $60 on hangers I didn't need to fix the problem and eventually solved all my fitment issues with $5 worth of hose clamps on my stock 15y/o hangers.
I'm not going to say i'm fortunate, and this is what I'm having a hard time understanding with you guys and your fitment problems. There were fitment issues with mine. When I put it on, it was all but resting on the tailing arm. I'm no professional exhaust installer or anything of the sort, but I do all my work myself with extra hands as necessary from friends. I installed my exhaust with a couple of jack stands by myself.
My thing is that I think that most of the problems you guys are having (Wiz in particular), is that you guys used those harder/solid exhaust hangers leaving no room for adjustment. I went out and bought them too after seeing the recommendations from Brian. When I bolted everything in place, the muffler wasn't close to center and was touching/bending-in my bumper. So i knew I was going to need to adjust the hangers, and they really couldn't be compressed enough to do any type of adjustments (which would leave bending the hanger rods as the only option). Most of the misalignment I experienced started from the 90* bend on the B-pipe which was extrapolated by the time it got to the muffler. I swapped back to my original hangers and i started at the muffler, like i posted before, and used just simple worm gear piping clamps to start centering up the exhaust from the farthest rear, driver's side hanger. Then I used another one on the passenger side and adjusted the overall height of the tip. Just from adjusting those 2 points gained me almost 3/4" of clearance over the 1/2" I had to begin with at the trailing arm. The exhaust was pointing upward a little bit so I tightened up clamps on the rear of the muffler a little bit (which slackened up the hanger at the b-pipe bend). So i put a clamp on it and just snugged it up to that point so it had some resistance from moving and viola.
This wasn't rocket science, and don't take that as me calling you guys stupid or anything like that because I know you aren't, but it wasn't exactly something that made me come cry to the forums about bad fitment. Would I have liked to simply bolt it up and it fit perfectly? You bet. However, even though these are made by a company, they are still a limited batch of custom exhausts, and I expected to have to work a little bit to make it perfect.
One thing that concerns me Wizard is in here:
Thanks for your input Ptatohed. I couldn’t agree more with you and don’t understand why so many people disagree with what you are saying. In a perfect world, I was hoping Brian would offer me two new B-pipes, for many reasons which I described in great detail at the beginning of the post. Plan B I would have hoped Brian would have offered for me to go back to the exhaust shop and have both B-pipes cut and rewelded so that the exhaust is going down the middle of the exhaust tunnel like it should be. If nothing else, as Plan C, I would have at least expected Brian to man up, admit the goof up, and apologize to the org. Unfortunately, none of things have happened. Instead, Brian has chosen to take the easy way out and say things like “poor installation”, or “every car is different”, or “personal preference” etc etc and does nothing to satisfy his customers.
Could I have left my exhaust the way it bolted up the first time? Sure. It wouldn't have looked right and probably banged around a lot. I wasted $60 on hangers I didn't need to fix the problem and eventually solved all my fitment issues with $5 worth of hose clamps on my stock 15y/o hangers.
08-21-2011, 03:00 PM
#486
Black Lion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ, Down by the River
Posts: 2,684
I'm leery of posting this, but with all the opinions floating around, why not.
This wasn't rocket science, and don't take that as me calling you guys stupid or anything like that because I know you aren't, but it wasn't exactly something that made me come cry to the forums about bad fitment. Would I have liked to simply bolt it up and it fit perfectly? You bet. However, even though these are made by a company, they are still a limited batch of custom exhausts, and I expected to have to work a little bit to make it perfect.I wouldn't state someone making others aware that there is a problem with a product as "crying" your not in our shoes.. did it cost you 290 extra dollars to fix your problem? I didn't think so. I tried to correct the issue using stiff hangers etc but my problem was beyond minor hanger adjustments.
Did you have the 2.5" Cattman? If you didn't then you would understand our complaints. My 2.5 fit perfectly with no modifications or clearance issues. So when a product is advertised as "bolts up like stock" then that is exactly what I expect. This was not the case as we all know with the 3"
One thing that concerns me Wizard is in here:
It's not a perfect world, never has been, nor will it ever be. You also forgot plan D and E. Plan D would have been, if you were so dissatisfied with the product, would have been to send it back for a refund. Plan E would have been to work on it yourself and try to get it aligned instead of going to a shop (or trying to make other people pay for you to take it to a shop).Non refundable my friend, there was no PlAN D
Could I have left my exhaust the way it bolted up the first time? Sure. It wouldn't have looked right and probably banged around a lot. I wasted $60 on hangers I didn't need to fix the problem and eventually solved all my fitment issues with $5 worth of hose clamps on my stock 15y/o hangers.
This wasn't rocket science, and don't take that as me calling you guys stupid or anything like that because I know you aren't, but it wasn't exactly something that made me come cry to the forums about bad fitment. Would I have liked to simply bolt it up and it fit perfectly? You bet. However, even though these are made by a company, they are still a limited batch of custom exhausts, and I expected to have to work a little bit to make it perfect.I wouldn't state someone making others aware that there is a problem with a product as "crying" your not in our shoes.. did it cost you 290 extra dollars to fix your problem? I didn't think so. I tried to correct the issue using stiff hangers etc but my problem was beyond minor hanger adjustments.
Did you have the 2.5" Cattman? If you didn't then you would understand our complaints. My 2.5 fit perfectly with no modifications or clearance issues. So when a product is advertised as "bolts up like stock" then that is exactly what I expect. This was not the case as we all know with the 3"
One thing that concerns me Wizard is in here:
It's not a perfect world, never has been, nor will it ever be. You also forgot plan D and E. Plan D would have been, if you were so dissatisfied with the product, would have been to send it back for a refund. Plan E would have been to work on it yourself and try to get it aligned instead of going to a shop (or trying to make other people pay for you to take it to a shop).Non refundable my friend, there was no PlAN D
Could I have left my exhaust the way it bolted up the first time? Sure. It wouldn't have looked right and probably banged around a lot. I wasted $60 on hangers I didn't need to fix the problem and eventually solved all my fitment issues with $5 worth of hose clamps on my stock 15y/o hangers.
08-21-2011, 05:45 PM
#487
Since you posted this in red for shock/mad factor, or were too lazy to quote it individually, I'll just leave it in red without quotes...
I wouldn't state someone making others aware that there is a problem with a product as "crying" your not in our shoes.. did it cost you 290 extra dollars to fix your problem? I didn't think so. I tried to correct the issue using stiff hangers etc but my problem was beyond minor hanger adjustments.
You're absolutely right, it didn't cost me $290 to fix it. It cost me $65. If you don't mind me asking, what was it that cost $290 to fix? I mean I could understand if you had to have every straight section of 3" piping cut out and re-welded in at a shop you would spend about that much. Coincidentally, when i had an eBay exhaust chopped up (to keep mandrel bends) and welded up it cost about $250 (plus the $100 for the original purchase of the exhaust). Hell, I had a full cat-back fabbed up for me in 2.5" for $300 with a generic glasspack resonator and flowsound muffler, and that was installed... To me it sounds to me like you got ripped off more by the person fixing it...
Also, since you omitted this part of my original post, I'll say it again:
You admitted you used the stiffer hangers to fix the problem. In all honesty, you probably just made them worse. When i put the stock hangers back on, the exhaust hung a bit lower but I could actually adjust it with the clamps unlike with the solid nismo/walker hangers.
Did you have the 2.5" Cattman? If you didn't then you would understand our complaints. My 2.5 fit perfectly with no modifications or clearance issues. So when a product is advertised as "bolts up like stock" then that is exactly what I expect. This was not the case as we all know with the 3"
No I didn't have the cattman 2.5". I wanted one, but never had the cash or need to get one when they were more readily available. I'll pose this (as the devils advocate I seem to be playing), did the b-pipe connect to the cat? Did the hangers line up at each point +/-1"? If they did, then it "bolts up like stock" right? Fits like stock is a different thing entirely and considering the overall diameter of the piping is 3/4", you can't expect it to fit perfectly in the same place. Was it close, yeah. Was it un-fixable with simple hand tools and about an hour worth of work, no.
Non refundable my friend, there was no PlAN D
I'm guessing you haven't had products come to you defective before. Even if the seller says non-refundable or no returns, if the product does not meet the description or is defective (unless noted as a defective item), you can file a claim with your credit card company / PayPal. You will have to have documentation of the problem, but then it is the responsibility of the seller to either prove otherwise, fix the problem, or issue a refund. If no resolution comes about, the credit card company will issue a refund and pursue the company up to, and including, prosecution for fraud.
Again, simple for you to make a claim as "not that bad to get it proper" It didn't cost you 290 dollars to fix so its for easy for you to say.
I know this was to someone else, but my response would be it shouldn't have cost you that much money to get it sorted.
If you don't mind, throw up a link to a thread with pictures of the problems you were having and what it took to solve them so i can look at it. Don't feel like searching for it personally, but if you feel the need to continue this discussion, I'm not against taking a look further into the matter.
I wouldn't state someone making others aware that there is a problem with a product as "crying" your not in our shoes.. did it cost you 290 extra dollars to fix your problem? I didn't think so. I tried to correct the issue using stiff hangers etc but my problem was beyond minor hanger adjustments.
You're absolutely right, it didn't cost me $290 to fix it. It cost me $65. If you don't mind me asking, what was it that cost $290 to fix? I mean I could understand if you had to have every straight section of 3" piping cut out and re-welded in at a shop you would spend about that much. Coincidentally, when i had an eBay exhaust chopped up (to keep mandrel bends) and welded up it cost about $250 (plus the $100 for the original purchase of the exhaust). Hell, I had a full cat-back fabbed up for me in 2.5" for $300 with a generic glasspack resonator and flowsound muffler, and that was installed... To me it sounds to me like you got ripped off more by the person fixing it...
Also, since you omitted this part of my original post, I'll say it again:
My thing is that I think that most of the problems you guys are having (Wiz in particular), is that you guys used those harder/solid exhaust hangers leaving no room for adjustment. I went out and bought them too after seeing the recommendations from Brian. When I bolted everything in place, the muffler wasn't close to center and was touching/bending-in my bumper.
Did you have the 2.5" Cattman? If you didn't then you would understand our complaints. My 2.5 fit perfectly with no modifications or clearance issues. So when a product is advertised as "bolts up like stock" then that is exactly what I expect. This was not the case as we all know with the 3"
No I didn't have the cattman 2.5". I wanted one, but never had the cash or need to get one when they were more readily available. I'll pose this (as the devils advocate I seem to be playing), did the b-pipe connect to the cat? Did the hangers line up at each point +/-1"? If they did, then it "bolts up like stock" right? Fits like stock is a different thing entirely and considering the overall diameter of the piping is 3/4", you can't expect it to fit perfectly in the same place. Was it close, yeah. Was it un-fixable with simple hand tools and about an hour worth of work, no.
Non refundable my friend, there was no PlAN D
I'm guessing you haven't had products come to you defective before. Even if the seller says non-refundable or no returns, if the product does not meet the description or is defective (unless noted as a defective item), you can file a claim with your credit card company / PayPal. You will have to have documentation of the problem, but then it is the responsibility of the seller to either prove otherwise, fix the problem, or issue a refund. If no resolution comes about, the credit card company will issue a refund and pursue the company up to, and including, prosecution for fraud.
Again, simple for you to make a claim as "not that bad to get it proper" It didn't cost you 290 dollars to fix so its for easy for you to say.
I know this was to someone else, but my response would be it shouldn't have cost you that much money to get it sorted.
If you don't mind, throw up a link to a thread with pictures of the problems you were having and what it took to solve them so i can look at it. Don't feel like searching for it personally, but if you feel the need to continue this discussion, I'm not against taking a look further into the matter.
Last edited by Mad-MAX_SE; 08-21-2011 at 05:50 PM. Reason: stupid font colors
08-21-2011, 06:22 PM
#488
Black Lion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ, Down by the River
Posts: 2,684
Since you posted this in red for shock/mad factor, or were too lazy to quote it individually, I'll just leave it in red without quotes...
I wouldn't state someone making others aware that there is a problem with a product as "crying" your not in our shoes.. did it cost you 290 extra dollars to fix your problem? I didn't think so. I tried to correct the issue using stiff hangers etc but my problem was beyond minor hanger adjustments.
You're absolutely right, it didn't cost me $290 to fix it. It cost me $65. If you don't mind me asking, what was it that cost $290 to fix? I mean I could understand if you had to have every straight section of 3" piping cut out and re-welded in at a shop you would spend about that much. Coincidentally, when i had an eBay exhaust chopped up (to keep mandrel bends) and welded up it cost about $250 (plus the $100 for the original purchase of the exhaust). Hell, I had a full cat-back fabbed up for me in 2.5" for $300 with a generic glasspack resonator and flowsound muffler, and that was installed... To me it sounds to me like you got ripped off more by the person fixing it...
Also, since you omitted this part of my original post, I'll say it again:
You admitted you used the stiffer hangers to fix the problem. In all honesty, you probably just made them worse. When i put the stock hangers back on, the exhaust hung a bit lower but I could actually adjust it with the clamps unlike with the solid nismo/walker hangers.
Did you have the 2.5" Cattman? If you didn't then you would understand our complaints. My 2.5 fit perfectly with no modifications or clearance issues. So when a product is advertised as "bolts up like stock" then that is exactly what I expect. This was not the case as we all know with the 3"
No I didn't have the cattman 2.5". I wanted one, but never had the cash or need to get one when they were more readily available. I'll pose this (as the devils advocate I seem to be playing), did the b-pipe connect to the cat? Did the hangers line up at each point +/-1"? If they did, then it "bolts up like stock" right? Fits like stock is a different thing entirely and considering the overall diameter of the piping is 3/4", you can't expect it to fit perfectly in the same place. Was it close, yeah. Was it un-fixable with simple hand tools and about an hour worth of work, no.
Non refundable my friend, there was no PlAN D
I'm guessing you haven't had products come to you defective before. Even if the seller says non-refundable or no returns, if the product does not meet the description or is defective (unless noted as a defective item), you can file a claim with your credit card company / PayPal. You will have to have documentation of the problem, but then it is the responsibility of the seller to either prove otherwise, fix the problem, or issue a refund. If no resolution comes about, the credit card company will issue a refund and pursue the company up to, and including, prosecution for fraud.
Again, simple for you to make a claim as "not that bad to get it proper" It didn't cost you 290 dollars to fix so its for easy for you to say.
I know this was to someone else, but my response would be it shouldn't have cost you that much money to get it sorted.
If you don't mind, throw up a link to a thread with pictures of the problems you were having and what it took to solve them so i can look at it. Don't feel like searching for it personally, but if you feel the need to continue this discussion, I'm not against taking a look further into the matter.
I wouldn't state someone making others aware that there is a problem with a product as "crying" your not in our shoes.. did it cost you 290 extra dollars to fix your problem? I didn't think so. I tried to correct the issue using stiff hangers etc but my problem was beyond minor hanger adjustments.
You're absolutely right, it didn't cost me $290 to fix it. It cost me $65. If you don't mind me asking, what was it that cost $290 to fix? I mean I could understand if you had to have every straight section of 3" piping cut out and re-welded in at a shop you would spend about that much. Coincidentally, when i had an eBay exhaust chopped up (to keep mandrel bends) and welded up it cost about $250 (plus the $100 for the original purchase of the exhaust). Hell, I had a full cat-back fabbed up for me in 2.5" for $300 with a generic glasspack resonator and flowsound muffler, and that was installed... To me it sounds to me like you got ripped off more by the person fixing it...
Also, since you omitted this part of my original post, I'll say it again:
You admitted you used the stiffer hangers to fix the problem. In all honesty, you probably just made them worse. When i put the stock hangers back on, the exhaust hung a bit lower but I could actually adjust it with the clamps unlike with the solid nismo/walker hangers.
Did you have the 2.5" Cattman? If you didn't then you would understand our complaints. My 2.5 fit perfectly with no modifications or clearance issues. So when a product is advertised as "bolts up like stock" then that is exactly what I expect. This was not the case as we all know with the 3"
No I didn't have the cattman 2.5". I wanted one, but never had the cash or need to get one when they were more readily available. I'll pose this (as the devils advocate I seem to be playing), did the b-pipe connect to the cat? Did the hangers line up at each point +/-1"? If they did, then it "bolts up like stock" right? Fits like stock is a different thing entirely and considering the overall diameter of the piping is 3/4", you can't expect it to fit perfectly in the same place. Was it close, yeah. Was it un-fixable with simple hand tools and about an hour worth of work, no.
Non refundable my friend, there was no PlAN D
I'm guessing you haven't had products come to you defective before. Even if the seller says non-refundable or no returns, if the product does not meet the description or is defective (unless noted as a defective item), you can file a claim with your credit card company / PayPal. You will have to have documentation of the problem, but then it is the responsibility of the seller to either prove otherwise, fix the problem, or issue a refund. If no resolution comes about, the credit card company will issue a refund and pursue the company up to, and including, prosecution for fraud.
Again, simple for you to make a claim as "not that bad to get it proper" It didn't cost you 290 dollars to fix so its for easy for you to say.
I know this was to someone else, but my response would be it shouldn't have cost you that much money to get it sorted.
If you don't mind, throw up a link to a thread with pictures of the problems you were having and what it took to solve them so i can look at it. Don't feel like searching for it personally, but if you feel the need to continue this discussion, I'm not against taking a look further into the matter.
My first complaint was in post 432 when I said I had an ecu pop up. This was a few days after driving with the 3" installed. I noticed some vibration from the beginning but thought nothing of it because it wasn't to bad. Post 445 shows a pic of the actual problem. I took this pic while I was under the car so the angle is weird.
Yea I could have gone through the process of filing for a return through my credit card but I was able to speak with Brian about the problems I was having and his alternatives to help were not good customer service and involved to much down time on a DD. I never said I was unhappy with the exhaust, I am unhappy with the customer service I received. I knew the problems I had were fixable so there was no reason for me to want a refund for this exhaust. I wanted this whole 3" project to happen for our 4th gens which is why I created this thread.. read from the beginning if you care to fully know what Wiz, myself and few others were complaining about.
Regarding fitment, I expected no less than my previous Cattman 2.5" exhaust fitment, which was perfect. No problems at all, this is what I expected with my 3". Since you did not have the 2.5" I don't even see how you can argue with me on this.
Last edited by maxprivate; 08-21-2011 at 06:24 PM.
08-21-2011, 06:56 PM
#489
I posted in red because it was easier to reply to each statement I felt like replying to. The reason it cost me that much money to fix is this thread. So please don't comment on how much money I should have payed to fix it when you don't even know what my problem was. Im just stating the facts.
My first complaint was in post 432 when I said I had an ecu pop up. This was a few days after driving with the 3" installed. I noticed some vibration from the beginning but thought nothing of it because it wasn't to bad. Post 445 shows a pic of the actual problem. I took this pic while I was under the car so the angle is weird.
Yea I could have gone through the process of filing for a return through my credit card but I was able to speak with Brian about the problems I was having and his alternatives to help were not good customer service and involved to much down time on a DD. I never said I was unhappy with the exhaust, I am unhappy with the customer service I received. I knew the problems I had were fixable so there was no reason for me to want a refund for this exhaust. I wanted this whole 3" project to happen for our 4th gens which is why I created this thread.. read from the beginning if you care to fully know what Wiz, myself and few others were complaining about.
Regarding fitment, I expected no less than my previous Cattman 2.5" exhaust fitment, which was perfect. No problems at all, this is what I expected with my 3". Since you did not have the 2.5" I don't even see how you can argue with me on this.
My first complaint was in post 432 when I said I had an ecu pop up. This was a few days after driving with the 3" installed. I noticed some vibration from the beginning but thought nothing of it because it wasn't to bad. Post 445 shows a pic of the actual problem. I took this pic while I was under the car so the angle is weird.
Yea I could have gone through the process of filing for a return through my credit card but I was able to speak with Brian about the problems I was having and his alternatives to help were not good customer service and involved to much down time on a DD. I never said I was unhappy with the exhaust, I am unhappy with the customer service I received. I knew the problems I had were fixable so there was no reason for me to want a refund for this exhaust. I wanted this whole 3" project to happen for our 4th gens which is why I created this thread.. read from the beginning if you care to fully know what Wiz, myself and few others were complaining about.
Regarding fitment, I expected no less than my previous Cattman 2.5" exhaust fitment, which was perfect. No problems at all, this is what I expected with my 3". Since you did not have the 2.5" I don't even see how you can argue with me on this.
Last edited by mista0406; 08-21-2011 at 06:59 PM.
08-21-2011, 07:23 PM
#491
Black Lion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ, Down by the River
Posts: 2,684
Despite the headaches in the beginning Im just happy my problems are now gone and I have a good performing exhaust. I said what I had to say in this thread regarding my experience with this 3" exhaust, all other post trying to belittle what I have experienced is irrelevant.
08-21-2011, 07:53 PM
#492
I know you posted before this finally went through (I lost it 2x), and I'm glad you're happy with the exhaust now, but I still want to post it if only because I took the time to write it 
I saw the problem you had with the O2 sensor, I didn't know that was where the primary outlay of cash was. However, my primary reason for commenting on the amount of money it cost is because you paraded it out in a public forum. I could care less if it cost you $2 or $2000, you're the one who feels the need to tell everyone how much this exhaust cost you out of pocket to make it work. I don't think you should have had to spend any money out of pocket to make it work, which is the point I know you guys are trying to make. The problem to me is it just sounds like whining and tossing insults instead.
I re-read the thread before I decided to post, and honestly appreciate you making the thread. I spoke to Brian many times about a 3" for the 4th gens in the past after the sound clips of the 5.5's started floating around the web. He was down with it as long as there were enough people to warrant it. After being around this community for as long as I have, I knew it would be difficult to get the numbers he needed and never went through with setting it up because I didn't want to end up with a thread like this under my belt with people complaining about a product I tried to campaign. I also know most Org'ers are cheap and don't come through when it's time to put up or shut up with the cash... There are probably hundreds of very useful mods and alternatives we could have available in our community we don't because of this fact (not to mention cheaper alternatives).
As far as the customer service side of things goes, I understand where you're coming from. Brian isn't exactly replying to latest posts in the kindest fashion. However, you yourself said that Brian offered you solutions for your problem. The fact that they didn't meet your criteria in terms of time is not his fault. He offered a solution and I honestly don't buy the down-time excuse. Did you sell your stock exhaust the same day you got your 3"? If not, you could have bolted it back into place and not sacrificed any down-time on your car.
Quoting this again so maybe you see why I don't understand the necessity for all this back-and-forth:
So again I'll ask the question, did you sell your stock exhaust or throw it away as soon as you installed the new exhaust? Also, why the necessity to make everyone aware of what you had to spend to make it work in your case?
As for the fitment itself, I know I personally would have thoroughly checked out a buzzing/vibration after installing an exhaust if it too started right after the installation... I'm not saying user error is at fault for your broken O2 sensor, because I agree shouldn't be clocked like that given the limited space. However, I would think you would notice the very limited space as a problem and then checked out the clearance by moving the exhaust with your hand before you just up and go driving around.
I didn't argue with your previous experience with Cattman exhaust at all. I basically was poking at the syntax of the statement you used of "bolts up like stock" that you had in quotes, and even stated I was playing the devils advocate with it.
I posted in red because it was easier to reply to each statement I felt like replying to. The reason it cost me that much money to fix is this thread. So please don't comment on how much money I should have payed to fix it when you don't even know what my problem was. Im just stating the facts.
My first complaint was in post 432 when I said I had an ecu pop up. This was a few days after driving with the 3" installed. I noticed some vibration from the beginning but thought nothing of it because it wasn't to bad. Post 445 shows a pic of the actual problem. I took this pic while I was under the car so the angle is weird.
My first complaint was in post 432 when I said I had an ecu pop up. This was a few days after driving with the 3" installed. I noticed some vibration from the beginning but thought nothing of it because it wasn't to bad. Post 445 shows a pic of the actual problem. I took this pic while I was under the car so the angle is weird.
Originally Posted by maxprivate
Yea I could have gone through the process of filing for a return through my credit card but I was able to speak with Brian about the problems I was having and his alternatives to help were not good customer service and involved to much down time on a DD. I never said I was unhappy with the exhaust, I am unhappy with the customer service I received. I knew the problems I had were fixable so there was no reason for me to want a refund for this exhaust. I wanted this whole 3" project to happen for our 4th gens which is why I created this thread.. read from the beginning if you care to fully know what Wiz, myself and few others were complaining about.
As far as the customer service side of things goes, I understand where you're coming from. Brian isn't exactly replying to latest posts in the kindest fashion. However, you yourself said that Brian offered you solutions for your problem. The fact that they didn't meet your criteria in terms of time is not his fault. He offered a solution and I honestly don't buy the down-time excuse. Did you sell your stock exhaust the same day you got your 3"? If not, you could have bolted it back into place and not sacrificed any down-time on your car.
Quoting this again so maybe you see why I don't understand the necessity for all this back-and-forth:
I was able to speak with Brian about the problems I was having and his alternatives to help were not good customer service and involved to much down time on a DD. I never said I was unhappy with the exhaust, I am unhappy with the customer service I received. I knew the problems I had were fixable so there was no reason for me to want a refund for this exhaust.
As for the fitment itself, I know I personally would have thoroughly checked out a buzzing/vibration after installing an exhaust if it too started right after the installation... I'm not saying user error is at fault for your broken O2 sensor, because I agree shouldn't be clocked like that given the limited space. However, I would think you would notice the very limited space as a problem and then checked out the clearance by moving the exhaust with your hand before you just up and go driving around.
Originally Posted by maxprivate
Regarding fitment, I expected no less than my previous Cattman 2.5" exhaust fitment, which was perfect. No problems at all, this is what I expected with my 3". Since you did not have the 2.5" I don't even see how you can argue with me on this.
08-21-2011, 09:00 PM
#495
Black Lion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ, Down by the River
Posts: 2,684
I know you posted before this finally went through (I lost it 2x), and I'm glad you're happy with the exhaust now, but I still want to post it if only because I took the time to write it
In red again.. Not a problem, you are free to voice your opinion. Thanks, Im also glad the problems are behind me now.
I saw the problem you had with the O2 sensor, I didn't know that was where the primary outlay of cash was. However, my primary reason for commenting on the amount of money it cost is because you paraded it out in a public forum. I could care less if it cost you $2 or $2000, you're the one who feels the need to tell everyone how much this exhaust cost you out of pocket to make it work. I don't think you should have had to spend any money out of pocket to make it work, which is the point I know you guys are trying to make. The problem to me is it just sounds like whining and tossing insults instead. Not "whining" but making others aware. That how I would like to put it. Any yes I was upset about the out of pocket cost.. who wouldn't be?
I re-read the thread before I decided to post, and honestly appreciate you making the thread. I spoke to Brian many times about a 3" for the 4th gens in the past after the sound clips of the 5.5's started floating around the web. He was down with it as long as there were enough people to warrant it. After being around this community for as long as I have, I knew it would be difficult to get the numbers he needed and never went through with setting it up because I didn't want to end up with a thread like this under my belt with people complaining about a product I tried to campaign. I also know most Org'ers are cheap and don't come through when it's time to put up or shut up with the cash... There are probably hundreds of very useful mods and alternatives we could have available in our community we don't because of this fact (not to mention cheaper alternatives). Thank you I am glad I was able to help make this all happen but obviously I had no part in the fabrication process. I agree many Orgers are cheap ahahaha.
As far as the customer service side of things goes, I understand where you're coming from. Brian isn't exactly replying to latest posts in the kindest fashion. However, you yourself said that Brian offered you solutions for your problem. The fact that they didn't meet your criteria in terms of time is not his fault. He offered a solution and I honestly don't buy the down-time excuse. Did you sell your stock exhaust the same day you got your 3"? If not, you could have bolted it back into place and not sacrificed any down-time on your car.It was a little more than a few days I had the 3" Installed and I delt with the vibration because I installed this in the freezing cold and as I said I delt with the vibration for a while. I also saw that the O2 sensor was broken and didn't have the cash immediately to get my problem taken care of. ]
Quoting this again so maybe you see why I don't understand the necessity for all this back-and-forth:
So again I'll ask the question, did you sell your stock exhaust or throw it away as soon as you installed the new exhaust? Also, why the necessity to make everyone aware of what you had to spend to make it work in your case?Why let other know about the cost? Why not? It is what is, I was stating the facts.
During the time that past I had my 2.5 up for sale and sold it. Bolting that back on wasn't an option. So any down time on a daily driver was no good for me at the time. My stock exhaust I sold years ago when I first installed my 2.5/COLOR]
As for the fitment itself, I know I personally would have thoroughly checked out a buzzing/vibration after installing an exhaust if it too started right after the installation... I'm not saying user error is at fault for your broken O2 sensor, because I agree shouldn't be clocked like that given the limited space. However, I would think you would notice the very limited space as a problem and then checked out the clearance by moving the exhaust with your hand before you just up and go driving around.I did notice the 02 being very close but I didn't think it would be a problem. I was wrong and it cost me big time. I didn't check out the noise right away cause it was to cold out and I was being lazy.
I didn't argue with your previous experience with Cattman exhaust at all. I basically was poking at the syntax of the statement you used of "bolts up like stock" that you had in quotes, and even stated I was playing the devils advocate with it.
In red again.. Not a problem, you are free to voice your opinion. Thanks, Im also glad the problems are behind me now.
I saw the problem you had with the O2 sensor, I didn't know that was where the primary outlay of cash was. However, my primary reason for commenting on the amount of money it cost is because you paraded it out in a public forum. I could care less if it cost you $2 or $2000, you're the one who feels the need to tell everyone how much this exhaust cost you out of pocket to make it work. I don't think you should have had to spend any money out of pocket to make it work, which is the point I know you guys are trying to make. The problem to me is it just sounds like whining and tossing insults instead. Not "whining" but making others aware. That how I would like to put it. Any yes I was upset about the out of pocket cost.. who wouldn't be?
I re-read the thread before I decided to post, and honestly appreciate you making the thread. I spoke to Brian many times about a 3" for the 4th gens in the past after the sound clips of the 5.5's started floating around the web. He was down with it as long as there were enough people to warrant it. After being around this community for as long as I have, I knew it would be difficult to get the numbers he needed and never went through with setting it up because I didn't want to end up with a thread like this under my belt with people complaining about a product I tried to campaign. I also know most Org'ers are cheap and don't come through when it's time to put up or shut up with the cash... There are probably hundreds of very useful mods and alternatives we could have available in our community we don't because of this fact (not to mention cheaper alternatives). Thank you I am glad I was able to help make this all happen but obviously I had no part in the fabrication process. I agree many Orgers are cheap ahahaha.
As far as the customer service side of things goes, I understand where you're coming from. Brian isn't exactly replying to latest posts in the kindest fashion. However, you yourself said that Brian offered you solutions for your problem. The fact that they didn't meet your criteria in terms of time is not his fault. He offered a solution and I honestly don't buy the down-time excuse. Did you sell your stock exhaust the same day you got your 3"? If not, you could have bolted it back into place and not sacrificed any down-time on your car.It was a little more than a few days I had the 3" Installed and I delt with the vibration because I installed this in the freezing cold and as I said I delt with the vibration for a while. I also saw that the O2 sensor was broken and didn't have the cash immediately to get my problem taken care of. ]
Quoting this again so maybe you see why I don't understand the necessity for all this back-and-forth:
So again I'll ask the question, did you sell your stock exhaust or throw it away as soon as you installed the new exhaust? Also, why the necessity to make everyone aware of what you had to spend to make it work in your case?Why let other know about the cost? Why not? It is what is, I was stating the facts.
During the time that past I had my 2.5 up for sale and sold it. Bolting that back on wasn't an option. So any down time on a daily driver was no good for me at the time. My stock exhaust I sold years ago when I first installed my 2.5/COLOR]
As for the fitment itself, I know I personally would have thoroughly checked out a buzzing/vibration after installing an exhaust if it too started right after the installation... I'm not saying user error is at fault for your broken O2 sensor, because I agree shouldn't be clocked like that given the limited space. However, I would think you would notice the very limited space as a problem and then checked out the clearance by moving the exhaust with your hand before you just up and go driving around.I did notice the 02 being very close but I didn't think it would be a problem. I was wrong and it cost me big time. I didn't check out the noise right away cause it was to cold out and I was being lazy.
I didn't argue with your previous experience with Cattman exhaust at all. I basically was poking at the syntax of the statement you used of "bolts up like stock" that you had in quotes, and even stated I was playing the devils advocate with it.
08-22-2011, 12:14 AM
#496
Licensed to Spell
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Murrieta (southern California)
Posts: 4,521
Wow, that was a lot to read.
Cattman, again - with all due respect - I think this is the time where you need to come forward and acknowledge what your customers are saying to you, admit the R&D wasn't done perfectly and admit there is a flaw(s) with your product. Ignoring this and providing dismissive responses, if any, only ruins your reputation.
These guys (The Wiz, maxp, etc.) love you and your products. They're loyal customers. They didn't just up and say: 'Hey, let's find something nitpicky to complain about and give Cattman a hard time'. No. You can tell by their passionate posts that they have a legitimate complaint. Acknowledge it! Sympathize with them. Don't tell them they didn't install your product correctly - that's insulting. It's quite obvious to everyone that the alignment of your pipe is flawed. Even those who are quick to dismiss the imperfect design as 'no big deal', admit the design is flawed. So you too need to admit it.
A Cattman product should be a direct bolt-on, with no variance, no fitment issues, no banging issues (and, in my humble opinion, the use of OEM hangers should be perfectly fine (or new hangers should be included with the system) ), etc. NO after-installation tweaks, short of very minor adjustments with regular hand tools, should be required. Period.
I hope you do the right thing.
Cattman, again - with all due respect - I think this is the time where you need to come forward and acknowledge what your customers are saying to you, admit the R&D wasn't done perfectly and admit there is a flaw(s) with your product. Ignoring this and providing dismissive responses, if any, only ruins your reputation.
These guys (The Wiz, maxp, etc.) love you and your products. They're loyal customers. They didn't just up and say: 'Hey, let's find something nitpicky to complain about and give Cattman a hard time'. No. You can tell by their passionate posts that they have a legitimate complaint. Acknowledge it! Sympathize with them. Don't tell them they didn't install your product correctly - that's insulting. It's quite obvious to everyone that the alignment of your pipe is flawed. Even those who are quick to dismiss the imperfect design as 'no big deal', admit the design is flawed. So you too need to admit it.
A Cattman product should be a direct bolt-on, with no variance, no fitment issues, no banging issues (and, in my humble opinion, the use of OEM hangers should be perfectly fine (or new hangers should be included with the system) ), etc. NO after-installation tweaks, short of very minor adjustments with regular hand tools, should be required. Period.
I hope you do the right thing.
08-22-2011, 12:22 AM
#497
Brian, I don't own this exhaust. I acutally called you to purchase the last one that you had dispite the concerns in thread, however I was too late. I spoke to you about making another batch, but the interest has been low because of the unaddress issuse in this thread. I only asked at the time to see if it would be possible for a 2nd batch.
Last edited by maxboy325; 08-22-2011 at 02:04 AM.
08-22-2011, 01:51 AM
#498
Not so when you pay the price tag. The reason people pay the amount is to not have to pay on of that top to make it fit. This wasn't a $200 ebay piece.
08-22-2011, 03:06 AM
#499
I'm leery of posting this, but with all the opinions floating around, why not.
I'm not going to say i'm fortunate, and this is what I'm having a hard time understanding with you guys and your fitment problems. There were fitment issues with mine. When I put it on, it was all but resting on the tailing arm. I'm no professional exhaust installer or anything of the sort, but I do all my work myself with extra hands as necessary from friends. I installed my exhaust with a couple of jack stands by myself.
I'm not going to say i'm fortunate, and this is what I'm having a hard time understanding with you guys and your fitment problems. There were fitment issues with mine. When I put it on, it was all but resting on the tailing arm. I'm no professional exhaust installer or anything of the sort, but I do all my work myself with extra hands as necessary from friends. I installed my exhaust with a couple of jack stands by myself.
My thing is that I think that most of the problems you guys are having (Wiz in particular), is that you guys used those harder/solid exhaust hangers leaving no room for adjustment. I went out and bought them too after seeing the recommendations from Brian. When I bolted everything in place, the muffler wasn't close to center and was touching/bending-in my bumper. So i knew I was going to need to adjust the hangers, and they really couldn't be compressed enough to do any type of adjustments (which would leave bending the hanger rods as the only option). Most of the misalignment I experienced started from the 90* bend on the B-pipe which was extrapolated by the time it got to the muffler. I swapped back to my original hangers and i started at the muffler, like i posted before, and used just simple worm gear piping clamps to start centering up the exhaust from the farthest rear, driver's side hanger. Then I used another one on the passenger side and adjusted the overall height of the tip. Just from adjusting those 2 points gained me almost 3/4" of clearance over the 1/2" I had to begin with at the trailing arm. The exhaust was pointing upward a little bit so I tightened up clamps on the rear of the muffler a little bit (which slackened up the hanger at the b-pipe bend). So i put a clamp on it and just snugged it up to that point so it had some resistance from moving and viola.
After I left the exhaust shop with my 3” exhaust installed and ghetto zipties around my OEM hangars, it still banged very badly. Within a few days time, I cut off the zipties and tried putting worm clamps around my OEM hangars to see if that would solve my problem. No such luck. Then I unbolted everything and started from scratch, as this is very easy to do since I have a 4 post lift in my garage. I started bolting things from the muffler (and making adjustments as necessary with the worm clamps) and worked my way back to the cat, constantly aware of the B-pipe clearance to the trailing arm. Again, no luck, same crappy clearance. Then I unbolted everything and started from the cat, moving my way slowly to the muffler. No additional clearance was gained. I then loosened all the bolts and had my friend pull the B-pipe away from the trailing arm (only gained a little more clearance) and hold it until I had every bolt and worm clamp tightened, but that ultimately caused the muffler tip to no longer be centered in the bumper cutout; and once he let go of the B-pipe, it moved back what we had originally gained and went back to its original location. Meanwhile the tip moved almost back to center, but was still slightly off. With all this said, I accepted the fact that I wasn’t going to have any luck changing the orientation of the B-pipe with respect to the trailing arm. So, I figured stiff hangars might be the answer, as both Cattman and the fabricator suggested them. I bought 3 Nismo hangars for the muffler and one from Napa for the B-pipe. I tried to be optimistic that stiffer hangars would be the answer, but deep down I knew they wouldn’t solve the problem. After all, no hangar is going to make any exhaust system so stiff that it can’t move 1/8” inch… I have bigger issues than messing with hangars etc.
This wasn't rocket science, and don't take that as me calling you guys stupid or anything like that because I know you aren't, but it wasn't exactly something that made me come cry to the forums about bad fitment. Would I have liked to simply bolt it up and it fit perfectly? You bet. However, even though these are made by a company, they are still a limited batch of custom exhausts, and I expected to have to work a little bit to make it perfect.
Hopefully now with the information I posted above, you do realize that I tried everything in my power to make things work prior to "crying about it" as you put it.
One thing that concerns me Wizard is in here:
It's not a perfect world, never has been, nor will it ever be. You also forgot plan D and E. Plan D would have been, if you were so dissatisfied with the product, would have been to send it back for a refund. Plan E would have been to work on it yourself and try to get it aligned instead of going to a shop (or trying to make other people pay for you to take it to a shop).
It's not a perfect world, never has been, nor will it ever be. You also forgot plan D and E. Plan D would have been, if you were so dissatisfied with the product, would have been to send it back for a refund. Plan E would have been to work on it yourself and try to get it aligned instead of going to a shop (or trying to make other people pay for you to take it to a shop).
Your “Plan D” is ridiculous for many reasons. For starters, as Maxprivate stated, ” I knew the problems I had were fixable so there was no reason for me to want a refund for this exhaust” Exactly. In my case, if a new B-pipe wasn’t made, then going back to the exhaust shop where the prototyping took place to have the pipe cut and re-welded, a simple 20 minute job for an experienced welder/exhaust guy would have more than sufficed. In Maxprivate’s case, he had his own expectations (rightfully so considering Cattman’s previous reputation) to have his issues resolved. If you were in our shoes, I have a hard time believing that you would dispute it with the credit card company considering the reputation Cattman had up until this point. Easier said than done my friend.
No I didn't have the cattman 2.5". I wanted one, but never had the cash or need to get one when they were more readily available. I'll pose this (as the devils advocate I seem to be playing), did the b-pipe connect to the cat? Did the hangers line up at each point +/-1"? If they did, then it "bolts up like stock" right? Fits like stock is a different thing entirely and considering the overall diameter of the piping is 3/4", you can't expect it to fit perfectly in the same place. Was it close, yeah. Was it un-fixable with simple hand tools and about an hour worth of work, no.
While trying to play Devil’s advocate, you just validated my previous comments about the very poor alignment of the B-pipe. The pipe diameter is only ¾” (divided by 2) bigger (that’s 3/8” on each side). Everyone should go look at a ruler and see how minuscule 3/8th of an inch is. It’s actually quit embarrassing for Cattman that he’s so far off and couldn’t even get it remotely close to centered, especially since our exhaust tunnels are rather generous. Let me remind you guys, that in the past he’s made lame excuses that it was done intentionally to get the hot exhaust away from the gas tank. A) It’s not that hot that far downstream, and b) since it’s stainless steel (one of the selling points Cattman always reminds us about), that the heat is retained due to the characteristics of stainless steel which keeps the velocity up and exhaust gases out for the most hp possible.
I also find it interesting that you, Mad-Max, have quoted and dissected just about everything Maxprivate has said, but you did not quote or even acknowledged what he said here, which are key points that he made (and me too) that are very relevant and significant to this discussion:
Thanks.. bigger and not fitting the same is arguable. If it is fabricated and test fitted with the final product properly, many problems can be avoided. See Wizards post on this.. There was no final product fitment... no trial with the final product installed on the Wizards car. At least have him drive around with it for a few weeks before shipping out the first batch. None of this was done.
Wow, that was a lot to read.
Cattman, again - with all due respect - I think this is the time where you need to come forward and acknowledge what your customers are saying to you, admit the R&D wasn't done perfectly and admit there is a flaw(s) with your product. Ignoring this and providing dismissive responses, if any, only ruins your reputation.
These guys (The Wiz, maxp, etc.) love you and your products. They're loyal customers. They didn't just up and say: 'Hey, let's find something nitpicky to complain about and give Cattman a hard time'. No. You can tell by their passionate posts that they have a legitimate complaint. Acknowledge it! Sympathize with them. Don't tell them they didn't install your product correctly - that's insulting. It's quite obvious to everyone that the alignment of your pipe is flawed. Even those who are quick to dismiss the imperfect design as 'no big deal', admit the design is flawed. So you too need to admit it.
A Cattman product should be a direct bolt-on, with no variance, no fitment issues, no banging issues (and, in my humble opinion, the use of OEM hangers should be perfectly fine (or new hangers should be included with the system) ), etc. NO after-installation tweaks, short of very minor adjustments with regular hand tools, should be required. Period.
I hope you do the right thing.
Cattman, again - with all due respect - I think this is the time where you need to come forward and acknowledge what your customers are saying to you, admit the R&D wasn't done perfectly and admit there is a flaw(s) with your product. Ignoring this and providing dismissive responses, if any, only ruins your reputation.
These guys (The Wiz, maxp, etc.) love you and your products. They're loyal customers. They didn't just up and say: 'Hey, let's find something nitpicky to complain about and give Cattman a hard time'. No. You can tell by their passionate posts that they have a legitimate complaint. Acknowledge it! Sympathize with them. Don't tell them they didn't install your product correctly - that's insulting. It's quite obvious to everyone that the alignment of your pipe is flawed. Even those who are quick to dismiss the imperfect design as 'no big deal', admit the design is flawed. So you too need to admit it.
A Cattman product should be a direct bolt-on, with no variance, no fitment issues, no banging issues (and, in my humble opinion, the use of OEM hangers should be perfectly fine (or new hangers should be included with the system) ), etc. NO after-installation tweaks, short of very minor adjustments with regular hand tools, should be required. Period.
I hope you do the right thing.
Thanks for taking the time to read everything and for making an excellent post. I couldn’t have said any of it better myself.
Bingo!! Thank you.
Last edited by The Wizard; 08-22-2011 at 03:15 AM.
08-22-2011, 08:15 AM
#500
Not to shun anybody here, all of these points are reasonable arguments don't get me wrong I totally agree with Wiz,Maxprivate,Madmax,etc. about the fitment issues, as I stated previously about what i did to get mine " done proper",and I definitly agree that the R&D should have been done before shipping out. But to me, like Madmax I assume(reason why I agree with him) I decided to deal with it and make the best of the first real 3" exhaust for our 12-15 year old cars. Apart from this exhaust I havent owned anything else Cattman and reading back to the post about the strut bars, sway bars, y-pipes, 2.5 full exhaust, headers, etc. this was great coming from a well known name of making great products, reason for me getting it. So when I say to "just get it tweaked" or "get it done proper" I mean no disrespect to the others. But also reason I didn't worry about the banging/fitment issues was cause the 2.5" pacesetter exhaust and my greddy that I owned previously both had banging/fitment issues and being this a 3" exhaust I just decided to do the little tweaks myself and deal.
Last edited by mista0406; 08-23-2011 at 08:23 AM.
08-22-2011, 06:32 PM
#501
Wow...this is a very long thread to read up on and very educating, especially considering i was highly considering swapping out to all Cattman products. But after reading this thread, i have more than changed my mind about this. I will never EVER buy something that will come with this bad of customer support. Dismissing this as the customer's fault and coming up with BS statements is very bad for someone's business and is not the way to get things solved.
Ever since I started working on my Maxima and got more into modding it and into SoCal Maxima, all i ever heard was that Cattman was the best way to go and that it was the bees knees (figure of speech). They may be really good products from what I've seen before, i give you that. But for someone to dismiss such key complaints? Come on man. I'm no Senior Member or anything, but seriously Brian...MAN UP AND ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG, not just for the sake of your customers, but for the sake of your company as well.
I do have to admit one thing, even the first Ebay catback that i bought for the first Maxima i owned gave me WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY better customer support than this....AND ITS EBAY! I needed modification for my exhaust, so i messaged the seller. They told me to go to a shop, get a quote on the price to fix it and get back to them. If it was too much, I would ship back and they would send me a fixed product. Very satisfied with their service and the exhaust was very decent. Again, am dissapointed in what I have seen and never plan to purchase any Cattman products...at least from Brian himself.
Ever since I started working on my Maxima and got more into modding it and into SoCal Maxima, all i ever heard was that Cattman was the best way to go and that it was the bees knees (figure of speech). They may be really good products from what I've seen before, i give you that. But for someone to dismiss such key complaints? Come on man. I'm no Senior Member or anything, but seriously Brian...MAN UP AND ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG, not just for the sake of your customers, but for the sake of your company as well.
I do have to admit one thing, even the first Ebay catback that i bought for the first Maxima i owned gave me WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY better customer support than this....AND ITS EBAY! I needed modification for my exhaust, so i messaged the seller. They told me to go to a shop, get a quote on the price to fix it and get back to them. If it was too much, I would ship back and they would send me a fixed product. Very satisfied with their service and the exhaust was very decent. Again, am dissapointed in what I have seen and never plan to purchase any Cattman products...at least from Brian himself.
08-22-2011, 06:54 PM
#502
I too, do all my work myself and have friends help when necessary. The only reason I went back to the exhaust shop was because Cattman thought it would be a good idea if his fabricator installed the exhaust himself and check the final tip placement for himself (when I panicked about the tip placement).
Originally Posted by The Wizard
Thanks for sharing your install process, but unfortunately you’re making a huge assumption about me and what I’ve done/tried. I’ve been there/done that…even more so than you. I wish I had the same end results as you..
After I left the exhaust shop with my 3” exhaust installed and ghetto zipties around my OEM hangars, it still banged very badly. Within a few days time, I cut off the zipties and tried putting worm clamps around my OEM hangars to see if that would solve my problem. No such luck. Then I unbolted everything and started from scratch, as this is very easy to do since I have a 4 post lift in my garage. I started bolting things from the muffler (and making adjustments as necessary with the worm clamps) and worked my way back to the cat, constantly aware of the B-pipe clearance to the trailing arm. Again, no luck, same crappy clearance. Then I unbolted everything and started from the cat, moving my way slowly to the muffler. No additional clearance was gained. I then loosened all the bolts and had my friend pull the B-pipe away from the trailing arm (only gained a little more clearance) and hold it until I had every bolt and worm clamp tightened, but that ultimately caused the muffler tip to no longer be centered in the bumper cutout; and once he let go of the B-pipe, it moved back what we had originally gained and went back to its original location. Meanwhile the tip moved almost back to center, but was still slightly off. With all this said, I accepted the fact that I wasn’t going to have any luck changing the orientation of the B-pipe with respect to the trailing arm. So, I figured stiff hangars might be the answer, as both Cattman and the fabricator suggested them. I bought 3 Nismo hangars for the muffler and one from Napa for the B-pipe. I tried to be optimistic that stiffer hangars would be the answer, but deep down I knew they wouldn’t solve the problem. After all, no hangar is going to make any exhaust system so stiff that it can’t move 1/8” inch… I have bigger issues than messing with hangars etc.
After I left the exhaust shop with my 3” exhaust installed and ghetto zipties around my OEM hangars, it still banged very badly. Within a few days time, I cut off the zipties and tried putting worm clamps around my OEM hangars to see if that would solve my problem. No such luck. Then I unbolted everything and started from scratch, as this is very easy to do since I have a 4 post lift in my garage. I started bolting things from the muffler (and making adjustments as necessary with the worm clamps) and worked my way back to the cat, constantly aware of the B-pipe clearance to the trailing arm. Again, no luck, same crappy clearance. Then I unbolted everything and started from the cat, moving my way slowly to the muffler. No additional clearance was gained. I then loosened all the bolts and had my friend pull the B-pipe away from the trailing arm (only gained a little more clearance) and hold it until I had every bolt and worm clamp tightened, but that ultimately caused the muffler tip to no longer be centered in the bumper cutout; and once he let go of the B-pipe, it moved back what we had originally gained and went back to its original location. Meanwhile the tip moved almost back to center, but was still slightly off. With all this said, I accepted the fact that I wasn’t going to have any luck changing the orientation of the B-pipe with respect to the trailing arm. So, I figured stiff hangars might be the answer, as both Cattman and the fabricator suggested them. I bought 3 Nismo hangars for the muffler and one from Napa for the B-pipe. I tried to be optimistic that stiffer hangars would be the answer, but deep down I knew they wouldn’t solve the problem. After all, no hangar is going to make any exhaust system so stiff that it can’t move 1/8” inch… I have bigger issues than messing with hangars etc.
I think that might be what I took out of context as taking it to a shop. Like I said, "i think the problem is _ ". I didn't mean for it to come across as more than an estimated guess based on my personal experience. After reading that explanation of the process you took (which is remarkably similar to mine, though without the same results, sadly), which until now I haven't read about, I truly understand your frustration. I don't want you to take my assumptions to heart.
Originally Posted by The Wizard
Believe me, it’s not my style to complain publicly on an internet forum without very valid reasons. It’s only after I exhausted (no pun intended) all possibilities and spending many unnecessary hours, and the fact that just about every single post I made in reference to my banging issues went ignored by Cattman, did I drop the hammer.
Hopefully now with the information I posted above, you do realize that I tried everything in my power to make things work prior to "crying about it" as you put it.
Hopefully now with the information I posted above, you do realize that I tried everything in my power to make things work prior to "crying about it" as you put it.
Last edited by Mad-MAX_SE; 08-22-2011 at 06:57 PM.
08-23-2011, 02:44 PM
#503
Black Lion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ, Down by the River
Posts: 2,684
I do have to admit one thing, even the first Ebay catback that i bought for the first Maxima i owned gave me WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY better customer support than this....AND ITS EBAY! I needed modification for my exhaust, so i messaged the seller. They told me to go to a shop, get a quote on the price to fix it and get back to them. If it was too much, I would ship back and they would send me a fixed product. Very satisfied with their service and the exhaust was very decent. Again, am dissapointed in what I have seen and never plan to purchase any Cattman products...at least from Brian himself.[/QUOTE kidgrave]
I actually asked Brian if I can take it to an exhaust shop and send him the bill. His response was " Im not paying for anyone else's work" If Brian would have agreed to that, he would have saved me 90 bucks. I agree that from my experience as well, you are truly covered with Ebay. They provide great customer service.
When your paying top dollar for an exhaust system no tweaking should be needed. The Wizards as well as my own problems were far more than "tweaking" to begin with. Totally unacceptable.
You should be apologizing to me. I felt I was being attacked by you and you didn't even do your home work in this thread. However, I take it that this was a broad apology 
I appreciate you maning up to admit you were wrong.. not many men will admit when they are wrong.
In addition, I also tried to correct the issues I was having myself but I didn't explain that as detailed as the Wizard
. I also knew the problem I was having was beyond my ability to fix. So I reached out to Brian. For the tip placement problem he charged me 50 bucks for the blank flanges, (should have been given to me) the clearance issues, I also footed the bill. 
We all agree that it shouldn't cost one extra penny out of pocket to have this exhaust installed correctly. I'll throw some exhaust hangers in as out of pocket expense... Other than that not one penny extra.
Wiz and Ptatohead, thanks for all your support as well as the support from a few others. I thank you all that have read through this thread and have responded with something positive.
I actually asked Brian if I can take it to an exhaust shop and send him the bill. His response was " Im not paying for anyone else's work" If Brian would have agreed to that, he would have saved me 90 bucks. I agree that from my experience as well, you are truly covered with Ebay. They provide great customer service.
Not to shun anybody here, all of these points are reasonable arguments don't get me wrong I totally agree with Wiz,Maxprivate,Madmax,etc. about the fitment issues, as I stated previously about what i did to get mine " done proper",and I definitly agree that the R&D should have been done before shipping out. But to me, like Madmax I assume(reason why I agree with him) I decided to deal with it and make the best of the first real 3" exhaust for our 12-15 year old cars. Apart from this exhaust I havent owned anything else Cattman and reading back to the post about the strut bars, sway bars, y-pipes, 2.5 full exhaust, headers, etc. this was great coming from a well known name of making great products, reason for me getting it. So when I say to "just get it tweaked" or "get it done proper" I mean no disrespect to the others. But also reason I didn't worry about the banging/fitment issues was cause the 2.5" pacesetter exhaust and my greddy that I owned previously both had banging/fitment issues and being this a 3" exhaust I just decided to do the little tweaks myself and deal.
See, I guess I either overlooked that fact or never saw it explained like that. I guess this really calls into question the fabricator. I mean, if he installed the exhaust after it was complete and didn't notice the clearance problems nor fix them, that is a problem. I understand Brian wanting to stand behind his fabricator with whom he's not had any fitment or QC problems (to my knowledge) in the past with. I mean let's be honest, it does seem strange to suddenly have problems with basically the most expensive item your making when it is configured based on known sizes and dimension from a jig that has never produced an exhaust with bad fitment. Does that excuse the responses, no.
I'm envious, I wish I had a lift I think that might be what I took out of context as taking it to a shop. Like I said, "i think the problem is _ ". I didn't mean for it to come across as more than an estimated guess based on my personal experience. After reading that explanation of the process you took (which is remarkably similar to mine, though without the same results, sadly), which until now I haven't read about, I truly understand your frustration. I don't want you to take my assumptions to heart.
With all the information in your reply to me, I don't think anybody would call you crying about it at this point. It is hard for people to take a logical position on something without all the facts. I'm a big boy and know when i make mistakes, and I made one. I assumed a bit too much and honestly let it get the better of me the more I replied (and who doesn't). Not going to bother typing any type of rebuttal on the rest of the post because I can admit when I'm wrong, and based on the information, what is there to argue? I didn't have all the information, nor did anyone else other than those who experienced what they did. So without overstating it too much, I am sorry about the problems you had/have, and that I acted like Mr Know-it-all and an @ss. I'm also sorry your issue wasn't as simple a fix as mine was.
I'm envious, I wish I had a lift
I think that might be what I took out of context as taking it to a shop. Like I said, "i think the problem is _ ". I didn't mean for it to come across as more than an estimated guess based on my personal experience. After reading that explanation of the process you took (which is remarkably similar to mine, though without the same results, sadly), which until now I haven't read about, I truly understand your frustration. I don't want you to take my assumptions to heart.With all the information in your reply to me, I don't think anybody would call you crying about it at this point. It is hard for people to take a logical position on something without all the facts. I'm a big boy and know when i make mistakes, and I made one. I assumed a bit too much and honestly let it get the better of me the more I replied (and who doesn't). Not going to bother typing any type of rebuttal on the rest of the post because I can admit when I'm wrong, and based on the information, what is there to argue? I didn't have all the information, nor did anyone else other than those who experienced what they did. So without overstating it too much, I am sorry about the problems you had/have, and that I acted like Mr Know-it-all and an @ss. I'm also sorry your issue wasn't as simple a fix as mine was.
I appreciate you maning up to admit you were wrong.. not many men will admit when they are wrong. In addition, I also tried to correct the issues I was having myself but I didn't explain that as detailed as the Wizard
. I also knew the problem I was having was beyond my ability to fix. So I reached out to Brian. For the tip placement problem he charged me 50 bucks for the blank flanges, (should have been given to me) the clearance issues, I also footed the bill. We all agree that it shouldn't cost one extra penny out of pocket to have this exhaust installed correctly. I'll throw some exhaust hangers in as out of pocket expense... Other than that not one penny extra.
Wiz and Ptatohead, thanks for all your support as well as the support from a few others. I thank you all that have read through this thread and have responded with something positive.
08-23-2011, 03:33 PM
#504
Originally Posted by maxprivate
You should be apologizing to me. I felt I was being attacked by you and you didn't even do your home work in this thread. However, I take it that this was a broad apology I appreciate you maning up to admit you were wrong.. not many men will admit when they are wrong.
In addition, I also tried to correct the issues I was having myself but I didn't explain that as detailed as the Wizard. I also knew the problem I was having was beyond my ability to fix. So I reached out to Brian. For the tip placement problem he charged me 50 bucks for the blank flanges, (should have been given to me) the clearance issues, I also footed the bill.
We all agree that it shouldn't cost one extra penny out of pocket to have this exhaust installed correctly. I'll throw some exhaust hangers in as out of pocket expense... Other than that not one penny extra.
Wiz and Ptatohead, thanks for all your support as well as the support from a few others. I thank you all that have read through this thread and have responded with something positive.
I appreciate you maning up to admit you were wrong.. not many men will admit when they are wrong. In addition, I also tried to correct the issues I was having myself but I didn't explain that as detailed as the Wizard
. I also knew the problem I was having was beyond my ability to fix. So I reached out to Brian. For the tip placement problem he charged me 50 bucks for the blank flanges, (should have been given to me) the clearance issues, I also footed the bill. We all agree that it shouldn't cost one extra penny out of pocket to have this exhaust installed correctly. I'll throw some exhaust hangers in as out of pocket expense... Other than that not one penny extra.
Wiz and Ptatohead, thanks for all your support as well as the support from a few others. I thank you all that have read through this thread and have responded with something positive.
I didn't have to apologize I'm kidding, it's all good. Sorry I didn't put you in the apology by name, i thought we were cool after your last response.
The good thing here is that, despite the bickering and finger-pointing (...from me
...), all the information about you guys' trials and tribulations basically are now in single posts. Because if that, I think it was worth looking like an @ss... kinda...
08-25-2011, 08:52 PM
#507
Black Lion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ, Down by the River
Posts: 2,684
I didn't have to apologize I'm kidding, it's all good. Sorry I didn't put you in the apology by name, i thought we were cool after your last response.
The good thing here is that, despite the bickering and finger-pointing (...from me
...), all the information about you guys' trials and tribulations basically are now in single posts. Because if that, I think it was worth looking like an @ss... kinda...
Im glad we finally have everything sorted out and we are all on the same page. As for Brian coming through, I really don't care at this point my problems are fixed and the money is already spent. His chances to step up to the plate are long gone. Whatever....thats life some times.
Last edited by maxprivate; 11-02-2011 at 09:12 PM.
08-26-2011, 04:05 PM
#508
I just bought my old roommate's max this week and will be swapping my exhaust over to it this weekend. Hopefully I won't run into the extreme misalignment issues you guys dealt with going from my '95 to the '98...
09-02-2011, 11:07 PM
#509
Wow...this is a very long thread to read up on and very educating, especially considering i was highly considering swapping out to all Cattman products. But after reading this thread, i have more than changed my mind about this. I will never EVER buy something that will come with this bad of customer support. Dismissing this as the customer's fault and coming up with BS statements is very bad for someone's business and is not the way to get things solved.
Ever since I started working on my Maxima and got more into modding it and into SoCal Maxima, all i ever heard was that Cattman was the best way to go and that it was the bees knees (figure of speech). They may be really good products from what I've seen before, i give you that. But for someone to dismiss such key complaints? Come on man. I'm no Senior Member or anything, but seriously Brian...MAN UP AND ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG, not just for the sake of your customers, but for the sake of your company as well.
I do have to admit one thing, even the first Ebay catback that i bought for the first Maxima i owned gave me WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY better customer support than this....AND ITS EBAY! I needed modification for my exhaust, so i messaged the seller. They told me to go to a shop, get a quote on the price to fix it and get back to them. If it was too much, I would ship back and they would send me a fixed product. Very satisfied with their service and the exhaust was very decent. Again, am dissapointed in what I have seen and never plan to purchase any Cattman products...at least from Brian himself.
Ever since I started working on my Maxima and got more into modding it and into SoCal Maxima, all i ever heard was that Cattman was the best way to go and that it was the bees knees (figure of speech). They may be really good products from what I've seen before, i give you that. But for someone to dismiss such key complaints? Come on man. I'm no Senior Member or anything, but seriously Brian...MAN UP AND ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG, not just for the sake of your customers, but for the sake of your company as well.
I do have to admit one thing, even the first Ebay catback that i bought for the first Maxima i owned gave me WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY better customer support than this....AND ITS EBAY! I needed modification for my exhaust, so i messaged the seller. They told me to go to a shop, get a quote on the price to fix it and get back to them. If it was too much, I would ship back and they would send me a fixed product. Very satisfied with their service and the exhaust was very decent. Again, am dissapointed in what I have seen and never plan to purchase any Cattman products...at least from Brian himself.
Crazy to think that a purchase from Ebay yielded better results than ours...
11-01-2011, 10:28 PM
#510
Totally agree...I mean I'm still a noob at all the whats the best of what for the Maxima, but i heard nothing but good things from Cattman as i came along and got more into it. But honestly, to see something like this and after reading all the complaints and how he handled it? I was just shocked at how everyone who told me Cattman was great at what he did, would just turn his back at everyone who supported his products. Pretty shady to wrong his loyal customers like that, but I guess it just goes to show that a lesson is learned from this.
01-14-2012, 02:03 AM
#512
[quote=maxprivate;7977171]
Wow, I thought my o2 sensor was close to the heatshield.
On another note, my exhaust hasn't been banging on the trailing arm since I installed my headers.
As you can see the sensor is broken and the black wire tore off. I don't know how to fix this, any ideas fellas? Maybe If I cut the or trim that area near the sensor if even possible.
I cant even understand why Im having this problem it should bolt up with no clearance issues
btw I had vibration in the beginning not banging, now I see where it was coming from and it makes sense. Once that sensor broke my vibration went away.
Plug the original and relocate at 10 O'clock....
Wow, I thought my o2 sensor was close to the heatshield.On another note, my exhaust hasn't been banging on the trailing arm since I installed my headers.
As you can see the sensor is broken and the black wire tore off. I don't know how to fix this, any ideas fellas? Maybe If I cut the or trim that area near the sensor if even possible.I cant even understand why Im having this problem it should bolt up with no clearance issues
btw I had vibration in the beginning not banging, now I see where it was coming from and it makes sense. Once that sensor broke my vibration went away.
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