First 4th gen NO START warning long read but interesting
08-09-2010, 04:04 PM
#1
First 4th gen NO START warning long read but interesting
now i know i may get flamed for asking these questions but it will be worth it as long as i can get at least one hint as to how to fix it..
bought a 97 se mt from a guy on craigslist for 650 and was told by the guy that he sold it bc one day it just would turn over and start so the next day he went and got a new battery for it and then it would do anything, no PW,PL, sunroof, lights nothing so he took it to a mechanic and the mechanic told him it had a bad ecu and it needed to be replaced but was going to charge him almost 1000 to do the work. He decided to just sell it and drive his other maxima(06 max loaded) long story short i talked to him and told him i wanted it, went and picked it up, brought it home on a tow dolly and parked it, since then i have tried my DD's battery (93 civic sedan) on it and it started cranking.. but thats all it will do at first i thought it was the fact that battery from my dd is only 450 cranking amps and the battery he gave me(which is a bad battery btw) was 800 cranking amps, once i put my battery on i had power. I ran the self-diagnosis for the ecu and came up with only a Air intake temp sensor(but i didnt think that would keep it from starting)(i may be wrong)the next thing i did was roll up all the windows and turn the key to the ON position and listen for the fuel pump to prime(guy said the FP was brand new) it primes every single time, but wont start.. so i try the next thing in the list of "power, fuel, spark" i have power, i have fuel from the pump.. but havent been able to check to see if my injectors are working..(BTW not sure how to do that or where the other 3 injectors are on the motor)i have removed all the coil packs and checked the plugs(a little run but shouldnt be the issue) have to wait till i have my buddy over to check the injectors(once i know how) and the coils.. so once i get my buddy over here to help with the fuel and spark and i will let yall know.. If any of my coils dont fire then that will be the first thing to replace and if all of them work correctly and all the injectors work then its time to replace the ecu like i was dreading(BTW when i swap out the ecu ill post a DIY with pics.. it might help someone)and ill keep yall updated since this post is getting pretty long ill update after tomorrow or in the next few days when i take some pictures.. i could take them now but the camera on my phone is junk and my mother has a 1200 professional camera i can use.. ill keep yall updated..here is what pics were on the ad for the car
let me know what you think and any suggestions or answers to any of my questions
bought a 97 se mt from a guy on craigslist for 650 and was told by the guy that he sold it bc one day it just would turn over and start so the next day he went and got a new battery for it and then it would do anything, no PW,PL, sunroof, lights nothing so he took it to a mechanic and the mechanic told him it had a bad ecu and it needed to be replaced but was going to charge him almost 1000 to do the work. He decided to just sell it and drive his other maxima(06 max loaded) long story short i talked to him and told him i wanted it, went and picked it up, brought it home on a tow dolly and parked it, since then i have tried my DD's battery (93 civic sedan) on it and it started cranking.. but thats all it will do at first i thought it was the fact that battery from my dd is only 450 cranking amps and the battery he gave me(which is a bad battery btw) was 800 cranking amps, once i put my battery on i had power. I ran the self-diagnosis for the ecu and came up with only a Air intake temp sensor(but i didnt think that would keep it from starting)(i may be wrong)the next thing i did was roll up all the windows and turn the key to the ON position and listen for the fuel pump to prime(guy said the FP was brand new) it primes every single time, but wont start.. so i try the next thing in the list of "power, fuel, spark" i have power, i have fuel from the pump.. but havent been able to check to see if my injectors are working..(BTW not sure how to do that or where the other 3 injectors are on the motor)i have removed all the coil packs and checked the plugs(a little run but shouldnt be the issue) have to wait till i have my buddy over to check the injectors(once i know how) and the coils.. so once i get my buddy over here to help with the fuel and spark and i will let yall know.. If any of my coils dont fire then that will be the first thing to replace and if all of them work correctly and all the injectors work then its time to replace the ecu like i was dreading(BTW when i swap out the ecu ill post a DIY with pics.. it might help someone)and ill keep yall updated since this post is getting pretty long ill update after tomorrow or in the next few days when i take some pictures.. i could take them now but the camera on my phone is junk and my mother has a 1200 professional camera i can use.. ill keep yall updated..here is what pics were on the ad for the car
let me know what you think and any suggestions or answers to any of my questions
08-09-2010, 04:21 PM
#2
First off, you should start with your CKPS POS and REF sensors (Crankshaft Position Sensor). One is located on the front housing of the tranny where the battery ground is connected to the engine. The other sensor is located under the harmonic balancer. Get the FSM or a Haynes manual and ohm those out to see if they are within spec. Post back your results and we will go from there.
08-09-2010, 05:41 PM
#3
will do maybe i can talk my dad into letting me borrow his ohmmeter what are the spec ranges for a 1997 maxima and i noticed today that in order to check all my injectors i have to take off the entire top of the motor or at least the UIM which means another part i gotta get lol (gasket) or could i salvage the one thats on there?
08-09-2010, 05:42 PM
#4
First off, you should start with your CKPS POS and REF sensors (Crankshaft Position Sensor). One is located on the front housing of the tranny where the battery ground is connected to the engine. The other sensor is located under the harmonic balancer. Get the FSM or a Haynes manual and ohm those out to see if they are within spec. Post back your results and we will go from there.
what exactly are the ckps pos and ref sensors? i know the cps is the camshaft position sensor and the ckps is the crankshaft position sensor but what does those pos and ref mean after that?
08-09-2010, 09:14 PM
#5
There are two different crankshaft position sensors. Not sure what POS and REF stand for but it helps to distinguish between the two. As stated in previous post, the CKPS REF sensor is located on the front of tranny housing just under the engine ground from battery. The CKPS POS sensor is located under the harmonic pulley. If either one of these sensors are defective, your car will not start.
08-09-2010, 10:29 PM
#6
would it even try to start or would it just click? bc when i try to start it .. it just cranks and cranks i got it to sputter and show compression one time but thats been it.. any suggestions on where to get the sensors for a decent price or how to check them.. i think my dad has a multimeter and if so what range do they need to be in ?
08-10-2010, 06:09 PM
#7
I am being too lazy to look it up, but I thing the sensors should be around 570 ohms. You might want to download a service manual, so if you go to http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/ you can download one.
To measure fuel injector resistance, the cylinders towards the front of the car (by the radiator) are easy to get to. The ones by the firewall are more difficult but you don't need to pull the intake manifold. There is a fairly easy way to do it though. This is courtesy of another maxima.org member:.
Easy way to measure rear bank fuel injector resistance.
by JNCoRacer of Maxima.Org
Measuring the resistance of the rear bank of cylinders is almost as easy, but it is difficult to reach the injectors. The resistance may be measured at a conveniently located electrical connector.
Notice the largest, thickest electrical harness at the top of the engine. This is the Engine Control Harness and it is shaped like a U, with the open top of the U at the driver's side of the car. The U has two corners. Look at the corner nearest the passenger seat. Just inside that corner you will find an 8-pin electrical connector. This is connector F131.
Disconnect this connector. Now look at the male part, the connector half with the pins exposed. They are arranged in two rows of four pins. The pins are numbered 1 - 4 (top row) and 5 - 8 (bottom row).
Measure the resistance of:
- injector #1 between pins 1 and 2.
- injector #3 between pins 1 and 6.
- injector #5 between pins 1 and 5.
Be sure to measure the PINS, not the female receptacles.
To measure fuel injector resistance, the cylinders towards the front of the car (by the radiator) are easy to get to. The ones by the firewall are more difficult but you don't need to pull the intake manifold. There is a fairly easy way to do it though. This is courtesy of another maxima.org member:.
Easy way to measure rear bank fuel injector resistance.
by JNCoRacer of Maxima.Org
Measuring the resistance of the rear bank of cylinders is almost as easy, but it is difficult to reach the injectors. The resistance may be measured at a conveniently located electrical connector.
Notice the largest, thickest electrical harness at the top of the engine. This is the Engine Control Harness and it is shaped like a U, with the open top of the U at the driver's side of the car. The U has two corners. Look at the corner nearest the passenger seat. Just inside that corner you will find an 8-pin electrical connector. This is connector F131.
Disconnect this connector. Now look at the male part, the connector half with the pins exposed. They are arranged in two rows of four pins. The pins are numbered 1 - 4 (top row) and 5 - 8 (bottom row).
Measure the resistance of:
- injector #1 between pins 1 and 2.
- injector #3 between pins 1 and 6.
- injector #5 between pins 1 and 5.
Be sure to measure the PINS, not the female receptacles.
08-11-2010, 07:58 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,011
Listen bro here is what u do:
1) clean TB and MAF.
2) REplace Intake air temp sensor since CEL is on. 25 bucks www.courtesyparts.com.
3) Check camshaft postiion sensor per FSM.
4) Check and wipe off CKPS, tranny side.
5) clean grounds on top of engine.
6) CHeck coils per FSM.
7) check PCV for excessive fouling. 10 bucks
7) Test Starter, see if it rotates fully. Take it too AZ.
8) Check plugs for fouling and/or replace.
9) Check injectors per FSM.
If none of that starts the car then u have a mechanical issue. Test compression of each cylinder.
1) clean TB and MAF.
2) REplace Intake air temp sensor since CEL is on. 25 bucks www.courtesyparts.com.
3) Check camshaft postiion sensor per FSM.
4) Check and wipe off CKPS, tranny side.
5) clean grounds on top of engine.
6) CHeck coils per FSM.
7) check PCV for excessive fouling. 10 bucks
7) Test Starter, see if it rotates fully. Take it too AZ.
8) Check plugs for fouling and/or replace.
9) Check injectors per FSM.
If none of that starts the car then u have a mechanical issue. Test compression of each cylinder.
08-11-2010, 08:16 PM
#10
ok well i got the ckps and cps both cleaned.. they were both disgustingly nasty, cleaned the TB and MAF they were also pretty gnarly, replaced the IATS had the starter tested at AZ (good starter) havent got to the injectors yet since i cant find what ohm they are supposed to be at in the FSM also wasnt able to check the coils for the same reason but now after i cleaned the grounds and the 2 sensors and the TB and MAF instead of it going crank, crank, crank, crank it goes crank, putt putt, crank, crank.. but now i have a "ting" sound when i try to turn it over and im afraid its a bent valve.. is there any other thing that might might that sound like maybe a lifter chattering or maybe a bad knock sensor?? i just dont want to have to tear off the top half of the motor and replace things just to have the ecu still be the reason it wont start.. would the ecu still work with doing the cel and the self-diagnosis if it was bad??
08-12-2010, 10:28 AM
#11
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: nj
Posts: 16
little suggestion, try to disconnect the electric part(no need for the tube) of EVAP canister(a black box on the other side of muffler) and see if you will see code 0704, so you will have a little more info if the ecu is working or not, it will not affect starting, it is for emission.
08-12-2010, 11:04 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,011
little suggestion, try to disconnect the electric part(no need for the tube) of EVAP canister(a black box on the other side of muffler) and see if you will see code 0704, so you will have a little more info if the ecu is working or not, it will not affect starting, it is for emission.
Agreed. Disconnect the MAF or another sensor and see if the CEL throws code. If it does then its a reasonable assumption that the ECU is workin.
OR jus test ECU per FSM.
OP,
If it jus wont start u will need to do a compression test
08-12-2010, 01:45 PM
#13
and how do i do a compression test? i finally got all the coils checked today and they all ran about 1.78-1.8 ohms and my injectors are at cyl-1 11.7 cyl-2 11.8, cyl-3 11.7,cyl-4 11.7, cyl-5 11.7, cyl-6 11.9ohms so all my injectors are good given that 11.7 ohms is within correct range and is there any other thing that could make that "ting" sound when i try to start it?
08-13-2010, 08:36 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,011
and how do i do a compression test? i finally got all the coils checked today and they all ran about 1.78-1.8 ohms and my injectors are at cyl-1 11.7 cyl-2 11.8, cyl-3 11.7,cyl-4 11.7, cyl-5 11.7, cyl-6 11.9ohms so all my injectors are good given that 11.7 ohms is within correct range and is there any other thing that could make that "ting" sound when i try to start it?
I think your motor is bad. THe compression test will tell u. Sucks man. but another motor run about 300-500 bucks. make sure u throughly clean mating surfaces on tranny and engine.
08-13-2010, 09:56 AM
#15
theres a tool that you can rent from AZ that screws into your spark plug whole and has a gauge on the end of it to tell that cyl's compression.. i found a ecu for in northern florida but i cant find the number for the place anymore.. it was going to cost me 108 shipped
08-13-2010, 10:01 AM
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 79
compression test is easy. buy a compression guage ($15 or $20). remove fuel pump fuse. run engine till it quits. take out all plugs. screw guage into a plug hole. crank engine a few times and check the reading. should be 160psi or so. repeat on each cyl. if below 130psi add a little engine oil through the spark plug hole and repeat. oil will help seal the rings if they are bad and compession should go up. if so you have worn rings. if psi stays low with oil you have valve problems.
I doubt low compression due to worn rings would cause your no-start though. even with 2 or 3 cylinders low you should be able to start and run. but it would be worth it to check.
maybe I missed it but you did confirm you have spark, right?
I doubt low compression due to worn rings would cause your no-start though. even with 2 or 3 cylinders low you should be able to start and run. but it would be worth it to check.
maybe I missed it but you did confirm you have spark, right?
08-13-2010, 10:34 AM
#17
Supporting Maxima.org Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fresh Meadows, NY
Posts: 634
Remember if CKPS and CPS are dirty and you clean them it doesnt mean they are functioning, CKPS the one that sits by the transmission is responsible for spark and as i recall fuel as well. So if its faulty your car will not start. Referance the FSM but as i recall it works on resistance so put the ohm meter between pins 1 and 3 and bring something magnetic like a screw driver next to it really close to it and see if the resistance changes look at FSM for proper numbers and a proper way to test it.
08-13-2010, 11:01 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,011
i have ran a 4cyl car on 3 cylinders and the car did start up. Albeit roughly lol.
Even if the car was running on a few bad cylinders then it should still run, unless the timing chain was popped. Thats very unlikely on a 97 tho, but u dont know what was wrong with the car before u got it.
If u got fuel, spark and air, but the car still wont start then the ECU isnt tellin the pump to deliver fuel. Maybe it is ECU. need to test ECU.
Even if the car was running on a few bad cylinders then it should still run, unless the timing chain was popped. Thats very unlikely on a 97 tho, but u dont know what was wrong with the car before u got it.
If u got fuel, spark and air, but the car still wont start then the ECU isnt tellin the pump to deliver fuel. Maybe it is ECU. need to test ECU.
08-13-2010, 06:27 PM
#20
I GOT IT STARTED!!! AND DROVE IT sorry for the caps im excited lol i bought new battery terminals today and a 4 gauge ground wire from AA and put it on the tranny bolt and scuffed it up a lil to get a good contact, charged my battery for it for 2 hours and got in it and it started right up.. took it to the end of the street and back (live on a dead end road) now i see what everyone is talking about how quick these maximas are it put me back in the seat and that stage 2 exedy clutch REALLY bites hard lol
08-13-2010, 06:28 PM
#21
i think im burning oil a little bit though bc it was smoking a lil bit after i turned it off and the other day when i was underneath it i noticed a little bit of oil on the pan that had leaked.. no big worries though i can fix it if its only a oil leak lol
08-13-2010, 10:59 PM
#22
well i founf out that it wasnt burning oil something on my motor isnt spinning correctly and its burning up that belt.. i know that the crankshaft pulley is working or the car wouldnt run but i cant trace down the problem without burning up a belt and possibly setting it on fire any suggestions?
08-14-2010, 05:44 AM
#23
Edit: Nevermind. I see you found your problem in a new thread.
Last edited by nelledge; 08-14-2010 at 06:26 AM.
12-23-2010, 09:39 PM
#24
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fla.
Posts: 4
old thread but I need ask..
I am having a running issue -not starting or stay running issue.I can crab=nk the car fine.It runs fine ,if I gas it a lil' RPMs rise MUST DO gentle though ,if I 'gas" just a lil' to hard then she dies,or pops. When I put it in gear D-R and touch the gas pedal she dies. I cleaned MAF and checked fuel level ok ,replaced MAF w/ used part from running motor,still dies when put in gear.WTF gives?
1996 maxima auto 170K FLA car
1996 maxima auto 170K FLA car
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