maxrocket96

I own a 1996 Maxima with a 3.0 L V6. I am interested in converting the engine to run on ethanol as well as gasoline.I know there are conversion kits on the market that will allow me to do this. However, I am concerned about how the use of ethanol will affect the fuel system components such as fuel hoses, the fuel pump and the injector nozzles on a car that was built well before flex-fuel vehicles were common. Does anybody have any experience converting a Maxima to use E-85 ethanol and if so to what extent did you have to modify the fuel system? Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

No, no one here has has converted thier car to run a fuel that is 50% less efficient and highly corrosive to aluminum parts. Buy a Prius Captain Planet.

Leo_Koneval

iTrader: (4)

Also I believe that we would need to change our fuel lines and all that too because ethanol dries them out?

But yeah, I think it is better to just try and improve the MPG of your car, or turbo or supercharge your car and resist all temptation to step into it. Because the turbo helps atomize your air/fuel better which burns better and leads to better MPG if you drive conservatively.

I think I might be the only one on here who would turbo a car to get better MPG, LOL.

adroitcaptor

I would also leo.

lol @ asand1

Your answer is no.

If you are doing it for the environment please understand this is worse than what you have. Leo is correct. Your car has a smaller carbon footprint... If you completely ignore how ethanol is produced.

Now consider the economic impact (it is negative).

maxrocket96

Thanks for all the advice you guys are giving me.

I like Leo's idea of a turbocharger to save fuel and increase horsepower. I have read several posts about turbocharging. If I can turbocharge an engine with almost 141,000 miles on it without causing any type of damage to it I may consider doing that as well.

Leo, you also mentioned that it is necessary to change the fuel lines
and other parts of the fuel system to run on E-85 ethanol. What other
components would have to be changed? I was thinking that the fuel pump and possibly the fuel injectors? If so where would I be able to get replacements that are compatable with ethanol?

I am not sure about ethanol being 50% less efficient. What I do know about ethanol is that it only has about 2/3 the energy content of gasoline and on average a car that is set up to burn both gasoline and E-85 averages about 20-30 fewer MPG. But that is an average. My wife and I have a 2009 flex-fuel Chrysler Town and Country van that so far seems to do slighly better using E-85 than with just gasoline. I also like the idea that ethanol is an American-made fuel made from American-grown corn and other vegetable products and using it helps reduce our dependancy on foreign oil, especially the oil we buy from countries that sponsor terrorists who want to kill us Americans.

I am also concerned about how producing ethanol may offset some of the environmental benefits of burning it as an automotive fuel since currently many manufacturers have to use fossil fuels to manufacture it. But I do believe that as time goes on and ethanol use increases that the manufacturers will start to use non-fossil fuel energy sources such as the ethanol itself or some other eco-friendly
energy source. Man, I hope I am not starting to sound like one of these environmental extremists because believe me I am not. I try to walk the middle ground on every subject. Do I really come across as Captain Planet? And I would never trade my '96 Max for a Prius. That's a Toyota product. No thanks. Nissan rules!! But back to the topic at hand. When it comes to doing engine modifications of any type I have to be honest and say that I have no experience which is why I am seeking the advice of those of you who have the experience.

Do you think there would be a benefit to turbocharging and using E-85? Just a thought. feel free to
tell me your opinion on this and on the rest of what I am posting here. I really do look forward to hearing from everyone who has replied to this thread and hope to hear from the rest of the 4th Gen
Maxima community as well.

Thanks again for the advice and I look forward to receiving more advice from you guys on the subject of ethanol and turbocharging. I really do appreciate it and I will read eveything you tell me with an open mind.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

I know that race cars running alcohol burn a LOT more than a comparable
gasoline powered car. I know that alcohol will destroy a gasoline Holley carburetor. I don't know what that would do to our heads, injectors, and rails. I would suggest doing research. Look at alcohol stock car, drag race, hydroplane, monster truck, alcohol race boat, ecowacko E85 websites. Anything that runs alcohol.

Keep this in mind though. agriculture has cause more deforestation since landing at Plymouth Rock than any other industry. To support every vehicle in America plus feed everyone here, would take up so much land and cause so much more deforestation. Not to mention that fact that it would take more energy to produce the ethanol than the ethanol could ever return. Ethanol is a good idea for a farmers car that has a surplus of material anyway. To produce it solely as a fuel source is an exercise in futility.

We have enough domestic oil wells that were drilled and capped in the '80s due to "economic feasibility" that we could tell the middle east to pound sand. The left wont let us drill or pump here, just the same as they wont let us log here. Our economy is **** because the left and the ecowackos. We can't manufacture here, therefore we cant export, therefore there is no money coming in.

"American" cars are made in mexico and Canada, while Toyota's are made in America and the bulk of the money goes to japan. end rant.

Clean safe nuclear energy + electric cars. I would drive a Tesla. Or a Nissan Leaf.

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

on Nissan Leaf. Don't bother with converting a 4th gen..

maxispeed

on the Tesla. Sports car specs, and no need to pay gas prices

beegeezy

iTrader: (3)

Like some of the others have said, ethanol has a less potential energy than gasoline. You will get less mpg running any amount of ethanol vs gasoline in a combustion engine.

Also, if you really want to do something to help the planet DON"T support ethanol. The government subsidizes ethanol producers to make it profitable for them. There is so much effort involved in production that it isn't a fiscally reasonable alternative. This isn't even mentioning the obvious fact that producing ethanol out of perfectly good food (corn) that could be used to feed hungry people is morally repugnant. Have you ever looked into the resources required into beef production? That one scares me. If only hamburgers didn't taste so damn good.

If you want to help the planet or just to wean off of foreign oil (who doesn't?) then support wind, solar, hydrothermal, tidal, etc true green energy production.

I like the Leaf but I really like this: http://www.thecarconnection.com/cars...arma#100177666

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

Leo_Koneval

iTrader: (4)

I think if you turbo your car but keep it at low PSI like 5 or so, it would be quite safe.

Although don't quote me on this because I know what I know from research and sometimes my memory fails me.

Also for the ethanol, although it is less efficient it is also a lot cheaper. But I guess depending on how cheap it actually is; if you are going to be filling your car up more, then it would offset that cheap price. Its like paying $5 a gallon for 2 times a month using fuel verses paying $2 for 5 times a month for ethanol, which in the end costs the same in the long run for both.

Also I don't remember whether this was for cars using acetone or ethanol but I remembered reading that any rubber part in your fuel system would need to be change because ethanol (or was it acetone?) eats and dries out rubber.

maxrocket96

Hi Leo,

Thanks for your response. I will look into the turbo option.

I am not sure about acetone although my guess is that it is quite corrosive. I have also heard that about ethanol which is why I actually
submitted this thread. I was actually drawn to this site because there seem to be a lot of people on this site like yourself that seem to have a lot of knowledge about cars in general and Nissans in particular.

I was actually doing some research on E85 conversions and I found some sites that sell aftermarket E85 kits but none of them seem to include
retrofits for fuel lines, injectors, fuel pumps, or any other fuel system components. From what I read about ethanol, aside from its lower energy content, it also tends to wear out rubber parts quicker. That is certainly a concern when you are talking about a rubber fuel hose.

Ethanol in South-Central Pennsylvania is about 2.79 per gallon at the fuel station closest to me. Compare that to the price of unleaded gasoline, which is about $3.09 per gallon and you are talking about 30 cents per gallon and compare it to the price of midgrade 89, which is what Nissan says I must use in my Maxima, that increases to a 40 cent per gallon difference. My guess is that the cost is about the same since flex-fuel car running on E-85 gets on average 20-30 percent less per gallon so for me the cost is about the same or negligible.

If I decide to go ahead with an E-85 conversion I want to make sure that first of all I don't ruin the 3.0 liter powerplant in my Maxima. It is a good running car and the engine is strong so if I do any mods I want to make sure I don't damage or destroy that engine. That is why I was concerned about putting a turbo on it but since you suggested that it may be OK by limiting the boost to about 5 PSI or less I will take your advice to research it further. I am also betting on E-85 getting even cheaper and more readily available in the coming years as more people start driving flex-fuels and alternative ingredients for making it become available. I like the idea of ethanol fuel but I don't think we should stop using corn and use it for feeding people and animals first.

Thanks again for your advice. It will be helpful to me as I continue to research my options at this point. I hope to talk to you again soon.

maxrocket96

Hello and thank you for your response. I have done some research into ethanol and I will continue to due so. Also, at your suggestion, I will look into other alchohol-powered vehicles such as the ones you have mentioned in your post. Thanks for giving me some direction, it should make for some interesting research.

You do make a valid point about what agriculture has done to our planet's forests. It is a shame that so much forest has had to be cleared to grow crops and raise cattle but depending where you have to build your farms I suppose there may sometimes be no choice, although we should try to grow as much forest as we destroy in an effort to even things out, whereever that is possible.

You also make a good and valid second point, one which concerns me as much as it concerns you: It is morally reprehensible to divert food resources needed to feed people to make automotive fuel. I do like the idea of making and using ethanol but I have a bit of a problem using so much corn to make it. Fortunately there are alternative to corn. In particular, a group of botanists/agriculturalists or whatever you want to call them developed some type of 'energy beet' that is not suitable for human consumption but high in sugar and perfect for making ethanol. It also grows well in areas where corn or other staple crops do not, so that and other types of plants could solve this moral conundrum and still give us a viable alternative to using Middle Eastern oil. If that can be done then me and my Maxima are all for it!!

As to our domestic oil reserves: I too think that re-opening these wells wold solve the short-term issue of using Middle Eastern oil. My concern is that even these reserves of oil-and natural gas-as vast as they are are, they are finite resources that will one day be exhausted. I think we can tackle the environmental concerns but there is no getting around the fact that we only have so much oil and gas under our feet and at the rate we are using it, it will likely be gone in the next 100 years. We need to look at
developing renewable energy sources, both for our home and industries and for our cars.

The Tesla is a pretty amazing car but unfortunately our of reach for most people due to its high price. Electric cars in general are a great idea but have a limited range and require charging for at least four hours before they can be driven again. They aslo cannot be recharged on the go like a liquid-fueled car. Granted, all of these problems will be solved in due time.

The other problem is that in many parts of the country the power to charge these green vehicles comes from not-so-green coal and oil so charging an electric car in your garage means burning more of the nasty black stuff-coal and oil- and all the environmental benefits are negated. Until we can get the driving range of electric cars equal to to that of gas-end ethanol-powered cars and replace coal and ooil with clean wind solar-and, yes, nuclear, they will not solve the problem of air and water pollution caused by mining, drilling for, and burning oil and coal. Put another way, you will not be driving a Nissan Leaf or any other pure electric car coast-to-coast for some time.

In short, we need to develop our existing energy resources while developing new, clean, and renewable ones. Sorry about the length of this post and I do not wish to preach because I am lousy at it but if your have read this post this far I thank you for taking the time to do so. thanks for provinging your point of view as it is a valid one and I hope we can talk again soon and the next time I promise not to be so wordy. Take care for now and have a great week!!

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

You would need to inject almost twice as much e-85 to get the equivalent of regular gas so your injectors would have to be upgraded to around 550cc the e-85 produces 12-25% less power so your mpg will suffer. E-85 and turbo some people do because octane wise it is over 100 and it runs cooler. As far as the fuel lines go, I've heard the same about the corrosion but consider this, methanol injection kits inject before the throttle body, so no messing with running it through the fuel lines. You would have to tune your car however. IMO it is not worth it and ethanol in fuel is kinda like snake oil since you are getting more liquid volume at the pump and you pay for it but it produces less power and you get less mpg. Simple example, 1 gal of 91 octane gas would give 20 mpg, 1 gal of mixed gas which we get at the pump now (consisting of 90% petrol 10% ethanol) would give 18 mpg. This is just an example to show the marketing tactic this is not exact numbers. Contrary to popular belief most of our gas does not come from the middle east and making it from corn is genius but not efficient when you look at the true carbon foot print to get it to the pump. Electric cars being green is a joke since most of our electricity comes from coal burning power plants, to add insult to injury hydroelectric power is not classified as green energy, follow the money.

E-85 and turbo makes crazy power but you go through alot of it and your injectors will probably have to be anywhere from 800cc for a dd to over 1000cc+ if you plan to track the car. On regular gas I am not really seeing an increase in gas mileage with the turbo at low throttle.
To sum it up imo e-85 no, all electric no, hybrid technology yes, hybrid turbo definitely yes!!

Leo_Koneval

iTrader: (4)

Maxrocket, You certainly should not turbo your car just because I suggested it, because I am N/A myself and don't have personal experience with turbos besides driving turboed Volvos.

Also I think before you go ahead with the turbo, I think you should ask some of the guys here who have done it beforehand. Because I know it involves a lot of custom work. Unless you decide to supercharge which I think is easier to install because Stillen has a kit. There is also the need to get a new management system and all those goodies.

But I think before you spend all that money on FI and Ethanol conversion kits perhaps you should try the easy route first such as improving your MPG with maintenance such as buying low resistance tires, and lower weight oil, and lowering your car, lighter rims, reducing weight by removing unnecessary stuff and replacing heavy parts with carbon fiber ones, removing parts that cause air restrictions, covering holes and gaps in on your car like your grille (although its dangerous because you could overheat your car). And then try out some of the cheaper and easier to install gadgets such as the electronic thermostat and ect. There is this engineering company call Mileage Matrix who is developing thermostats that are electronically controlled so they open up at the exactly when needed.

Here is the link: http://www.plasmadrive.com/products.html

These guys came to my college to demonstrate their gadgets and I must say, it is amazing. Although as of now most of their stuff are in development.

But if you are super motivated to convert to Ethanol, I give you the thumbs up! Because it burns cleaner than gasoline which is a plus and its cheaper which is a plus. But the work involved is...........

I am also one of those people who want the most MPG possible out of a car and I occasionally hug a tree too, and if I had the money I would definitely buy a Nissan Leaf, or a motorcycle (65 MPG!), or a Prius.

maxrocket96

I want to thank everybody who replied to this thread for their input and advice on the topic of the thread-what is required to convert a 1996 Nissan Maxima to ethanol. Thanks entirely to the advice I received from everybody in this forum I was able to make a decision-it would take too much time, effort and money to properly and successfully convert a car that was not designed to run on anything but gasoline to make the conversion, and the risk of damaging or destroying the engine is far too high. The car runs perfectly fine the way it is set up now, as evidenced by the fact that I drive it to work everyday and it gets me there and back reliably. My conclusion: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Put another way, leave well enough alone, and appreciate this car for what it is-a reliable, durable, well-performing car that is also fun to drive and can still keep up with most cars on the road-including the newer-generation Maximas. considering that the car is currently completely stock and exactly the way is was when it rolled out of the factory back in late 1995-an early 1996 model-that's pretty impressive.

I plan on doing some mods down the road when time and money permit but right now I am planning on simply driving it the way it is. Aside from some minor cosmetic body repairs, it is fine the way it is. Thanks again for your advice and I look forward to your replies to some of my future threads. Take care for now, and happy driving!!!

BENMAX03

Your coming off sounding a little "douchey" here, but overall I couldn't agree more. Well said. I agree... X gets the square.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

I get a little worked up about the whole ethanol gas thing. Many people don't see the big picture.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

There's another alternative fuel that looks interesting called Isobutanol. It's made directly from "cellulose biomass", i.e. any part of plants (or old paper, sawdust, etc.). It has properties closer to gasoline, and is being run in the "American LeMans Series" - "Dyson Mazda/Lolas", that also use "G-Oil" lubricant! See links below.

http://www.mazdainthenews.com/isobut...its-the-track/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0307124917.htm

sergofast

iTrader: (22)

:+1: DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW!

off topic, but did anyone see the top gear episode where they compared the MPG of a Prius to a BMW M3....guess which one was better

Leo_Koneval

iTrader: (4)

Ugh, all these political issues and all this nonsense.

But to be honest, I think if someone were to run E85 their engines would probably be spotless.

I use isopropal (probably spell that wrong) alcohol at work to clean metal surfaces and WOW does it do the job well.

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

The context of that comparison makes it extremely misleading. Driven the same, the prius gets better mileage than the M3. I could do the same test they did with a smart car and an F450 6.0L powerstroke and get the same result.


To the OP. Dont bother. I didnt even read the large posts above, but Im sure there is enough proof in them to rationalize the decision not to do it.

On another note: If anyone isnt aware, the amount of corn used to make the ethanol in our gas has drastically raised the price of corn in mexico. They use corn as a staple, for just about every food they eat. Because of our governments desire to get kickbacks in an attempt to regulate the oil industry, our excessive corn consumption is causing them to go hungry.

Shift_A32B

iTrader: (14)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07So_lJQyqw