Thanks - if I could find a cliff I would have. Honestly, all of this work is for someone at church who doesn't have any other transportation. I am trying my best to help them, and hoping that someone out there can help me help them.

The last fact as I listed in the very beginning is that the car stalled on the highway and since then I have not been able to start it since. I'm wondering if the "computer" is stopped it from cranking, but not sure how to test that and again no CEL (except knock sensor which has been there for years).

Im hoping the sound clip above will spark a memory from someone.

 

386k miles, wow that car has done it's job, bit you still want to fix it. Just a testament to what great cars we have. Good luck, and check your timing.

 

I agree the car has been awesome.

The only way to check timing is to remove the timing cover (as far as I know), and that is the very last thing I want to do unless no other option exists. It just seems like something electrical, or something that a trained ear might pick up on (with the additional description).

 

+1 lol would have done the same

 

One other question that I thought of early this morning..
When I replaced the crankshaft POS sensor and I moved the screwdriver away the voltage did not drop to 0 ohms. Now I am not sure if this was because I didnt have it screwed against the transmission when I tested it and maybe it was unable to be grounded (just guessing). The crankshaft POS sensor was brand new so I assumed that it was still good, but since it is not starting Im not sure if this was an issue or not. If I have not explained it well - please ask and I will try to explain more.

 

DO A COMPRESSION TEST!!!
It is common to jump timing on the highway and die. This can cause a no start. A compression test will give us an idea of the mechanical condition of the engine.

 

Timing being off will cause low numbers.

 

I've had a sentra which blew its timing chain. when that happened, the sounds it made when trying to start were this turbine like smoothness of the engine turning over due to no compression from the valves being completely out of synch with the pistons. I listened to your starting sounds and it sounds somewhat similar......like the timing is just a bit off. You did mention that the engine turns over fast, faster than usual, I gather. That would be another indicator of timing chain issues.

Question for you: the way the car sounds now when starting is not the way it used to sound when starting, correct?

Also, when the car was working, did you notice any chain rattles? some grovelling type sounds before it started?

Even though the car isnt starting, you should be able to check ignition timing with an ignition light connected to spark plug number 1, I believe.

That test would confirm if your timing is off, and if it is.........

DW

 

This may be too simple to be right, but is there any chance you have a bad injector (or injectors) and you're dumping too much fuel in there?

 

A few follow-ups:
Correct it does not sound the same.

When the car was working there was no rattling sound coming from the engine, there was an issue with the cat that in that a piece had broken off inside it and was clanking around. The only noise was when the gas pedal was pushed that it would sound like air was escaping from somewhere.

Ignition timing - How can you check the ignition timing with a light to SPN1?

 

Message received. I was not under the impression that this would cause the car not to start. I will put this back on the TO DO list.

Based on others history does anyone have any insight on if the sound clip sounds like a compression issue. Just asking, as I know the real test is to test it.

I have wondered about why the smell of gas was so obvious, but I would think it would still start just run hot and then choke out.

 

Low compression is a symptom, not a condition. Low compression from worn rings or leaky valves generally won't cause a no start. Valve timing being off can cause low compression AND a no start.

 

Thanks for the clarification. So low compression can be caused by a few different things. If compression is low, how could I single it down to valve timing (other then removing the timing chain cover and visually inspecting it)?

 

Leak down test or visually with the valve covers off.

 

THIS

DW

 

I don't know if this is more of a 5th gen only kind of solution, but I just had the exact same issue as you did with my 2001. Same sound when starting. Crank crank crank all day, no run. Checked all sensors, everything checked out fine. Spent 4 days trying to diagnose. In the end, running a new ground from the bolt on the tranny above the crank sensor straight to the neg. terminal got it starting again. I know you said you checked your grounds, and I did to, but that extra ground fixed all my issues in one go.

Considering it takes 5 minutes and you've tried everything else, may as well give it a go.

 

I have seen other posts about grounding as well. How many different grounding mods are there?

 

I've only really read about the one. If you stick one right above the crankshaft sensor and solder or bolt it into the negative terminal it provides a real nice ground for both the sensor and the starter.

After everything I tried I just went for broke and tore off the old tranny->body ground, resoldered it into something that can actually carry a charge. No luck.

Next, I took a ground from my trunk that used to be used for a sub ( car came with it, but no sub ) and cut off about an inch of coating off the negative cable up near the metal connector. Then I soldered on the ground cable I got from the trunk and bolted the other end into the 17mm bolt above the crank sensor. It was only about a foot and half of wire. Started right up. I was blown away. I really didn't expect it to work.

 

Alright guys I performed the compression test and here are the results:
Cylinder Initial After turning over 6 times
1---105----180
2---110----170
3---120----175
4---110----170
5---120----185
6---100----185

I also checked all of the coil packs and everything checked fine in static mode. I cant start the engine so cant perform the dynamic test.

The car is still not starting. Any ideas? I didnt try the grounding mentioned above, but I wanted to post these results and see if it tells anyone something more. It appears to be in spec and would indicate that the engine is fine from what I can see.

Added link to hear how it sounds
http://youtu.be/iGweOt-zi5I

 

Standard - 185 psi
Minimum - 142 psi
Maximum difference between cylinders - 14 psi

 

So it looks like the compression results are good for an engine with 200k miles on it. Its within 15, but using a gauge etc. 1 point I wouldn't expect to be that big of a deal. If the change had jumped timing then I would have expected to see lower numbers, right?

 

Any other ideas from the org?

 

Took all of the gas out of the max tonight and replaced with high octane.
Took negative cable off of battery and filed all connections back down.
Still did not start.

I havent replaced the IACV or MAF sensor but checked both and they were within specs.
I did not do the ground on the crankshaft, but otherwise not sure where else to turn.
I saw the post earlier on checking the ignition timing with SP1, but didnt see any writeup on how to perform that.

Im still holding out hope that someone has an idea.

 

I just double checked this entire thread to make sure my next question wasn't already answered.

you need 3 things: air, ignition, and a fuel source.

you cleaned the TB, and stated it was fully functional, and assuming that the intake isn't blocked by anything, we know we have air.
you pulled the spark plug out and saw it sparking, we have ignition.
now, you pulled out the plugs and saw them wet with fuel. this could have been from when the car was actually running, and not since you started trouble shooting it, have you checked the fuel lines from the tank to the engine? if one of them may have popped open from age, and came loose and fell off, then it would explain. especially since you said you can smell it strongly from outside the vehicle.

check the lines and report back.

 

I will check the hoses as you suggested. When I did the compression test (incorrectly the first time) I did see gas spraying from the cylinders as I did not depressurize the fuel system so I am confident fuel is getting there and I have not see any remnants of any fluid on the ground. I will check all the same.

Is there anything that would stop the car from starting even with all three things? It sounded like after the last attempt that it was ready to turn over, but didn't and then went to the fast start. Im not sure if anything in the ECU would stop it or anything else. The car did stall on the highway originally and I am not sure if something got triggered during this from a safety standpoint to prevent it from starting again.
I have no CEL codes, but is there another scanner that I could buy that would show me all codes/faults in the system. I use the remote to turn off the alarm every time before starting it (and after hooking the battery back up) to ensure that the security system doesnt prevent it.

I am running out of things to check/time/patience to get the Max back on the road. Im believing that the car is ready to go, but that some switch is preventing it because there isn't much left that would prevent it from starting. Once it starts if it stalls, idles rough, etc. I can look into those but just the starting is throwing me.

 

If your timing is off that can prevent it from starting, but something has to be SERIOUSLY screwed up for that to happen.

If all your fuses/relays are good, your only option would be the ecu that I can think of.

 

How to test the ECU without taking to the dealership?

 

There's so many things you're probably better off buying one from a junkyard..

 

The ECU is the module behind the center console next to the firewall where all the codes from, correct? Is there a particular way that this has to be replaced - i.e. a write up.

 

Correct. Next to the gas pedal. And I'm not to sure. I'm sure all of it is plug and play really

 

I went back to your first post and noted that:

spark plug is firing
Knock sensor code is there and stored
Feul pump is turning on (and presumably off too)

All these functions are computer controlled, so i doubt your ECU is failing.

I don;t know what the problem is, but I hope this helps rule out what the problem isn't.

DW

 

Good point dw. But is it possible that some functions on the ecu will die out and some others work? Or is it a "if one works they all work" kind of deal?

 

I know you say it's not throwing any other codes other than knock, have you tested the grounds on the intake manifold that ground that? unscrew then and screw them back in. I knock doesn't normally cause this, but have you cleared the code? Also (yes I read the whole post and don't remember) have you checked the MAF just for giggles to see what it is reading out at? You keep going back to the hissing sound, was that from the exhaust (like under the car) or under the hood? What mods are on the car, sounds like none. Have you checked the hose from the stock intake piping to the valve cover? This has cause my car to die when it popped off driving down the road right when I let off on the gas but I could crank it back up.

My thing would be checking the grounds to the sensors.

 

No performance mods.

I cleared the code for the KS, but it comes right back after a few times as I didnt replace it.

I was told the hissing sound came from under the hood (Im at a disadvantage as I wasn't driving when it stalled).

I did check the MAF and it was within spec, but I cant test again and record the values. That was one of the first things I tested.

I checked the voltage on the sensors. Is there a certain test I need to perform to ensure the grounds are working right?

 

Im not sure which one you are referring to. I have looked at all of the hoses and nothing looks undone. The video on youtube shows the engine.


Is it possible to take the ECM to the dealership and have them scan it to get any fault or other codes that didnt register a CEL code? I was even looking to buy a SnapOn tool to run codes myself, but way too much money.

 

Dealer would probably charge you the same for that service.

 

Im willing to pay the dealership the service price if they can tell me specifically what needs to be fixed which I am hoping the ECM would do. If not - then not sure.

 

Is it common that the ECU's go bad on 4th gen cars? At this point it would seem like the only remaining part that could cause these issues.


Zack

 

It is very rare that the ECU goes out. Which is why it makes no sense the car will not start. When you are cranking it over, how does it sound? Like it lacks gas or its an electrical malfunction? No codes are present?

 

There is a link to the video above so you can hear it. Sometimes hard to explain.
No codes other then Knock sensor.