Hey guys you have helped a great deal in the past, so I am hoping that there is one last save left somewhere.

I have searched and done versus searches and haven't found anything in the 4th gen forum that matched the conditions I have unless I have multiple issues (which is possible).

Background:
- 1996 GXE Maxima
- 386,000 miles

Original Problem:
Was driving the car down the interstate for 30 mins and when I pressed on the gas the car just died and I was able to move to the side. The car then turned over but would not start - it tried to catch but would not start.

I towed the car back to my place and started checking things:
- the fuel pump is running ( i can hear it turn on)
- the fuel filter was fine (I replaced it anyway)
- I took out a plug and could see where fuel was there (plug was wet)
- With the plug out I had someone start the car and I was able to see a spark
- I checked the voltage on the MAF sensor and it reported the right voltage
- There was no CEL (other then knock sensor which has been on for a while)

The battery I have had issues with so I took it and had it tested. It was too low so I charged it overnight and had it re-tested and it was tested good. I then cleaned the throttle body and tried to start the car again. I was thinking that maybe the alternator was bad and drained the battery which was I went this route.

With everything hooked up again - I turned the key and the engine turned over but it never caught. It kept making the "errrr, errr, errr" noise and nothing more.

Not sure what else to do.

I was thinking of checking the crankshaft sensors, but that wouldn't explain the car just cutting off going down the road.

Any ideas....Any 9th inning saves from anyone..

 

Starter? Alternator? How are your grounds @ the chassis / battery terminals?

you're getting fuel, you're getting spark...is the TB opening when it should, not stuck on anything?

 

No codes?
Check crank sensors, cam sensor.
Any different if you pump the pedal while cranking?

 

Grounds are look solid. I even hooked up another battery via jumper cables in an attempt to rule out any battery issues. I have not taken the starter or alternator out check to check them. The alternator might have caused the car to die, but the alternator does come into play when starting it especially with a full battery and even more so when I hooked it up to another car and was trying to jump it.
The starter could be an issue, but the car is turning over - and its not a slow grind or dragging.

When I cleaned the TB it looked to be opening properly.

I was even thinking about the timing chain, but not sure how to test it.

 

No difference if I pump the pedal. I tried pumping it as well as holding it down while starting it. No difference, and even tried in neutral just to see and again nothing.

I plan to check the cam and crank sensors, but would they cause the car to cut off which is where the first problem came from? I thought the crank sensors only came in to play with the initial start, and I would have expected to have seen a CEL code or something.

 

I believe it can cause a stall. If it is bad, it will prevent a start. I had that happen once. Kept cranking and cranking, and after many hours it started.

 

+1 on this. Either crank position sensors can cause a no start. For me, it was the one between engine and transmission. Cause a very long start, never threw a code, engine did run fine once started.

However, you could have a broken timing chain. You might consider pulling off the front valve cover and see if camshaft turns when engine is cranked.

 

Guys..Here is my readout and the problem is still there...

I checked the REF cranksensor - I checked the harness and it tested fine, I checked the sensor and it tested fine.

I checked the POS cranksensor - I checked the harness and it tested fine, I checked the sensor via a backprobe and the white wire did not jump to 5 volts as it should have. I went and picked up another cranksensor and it now stays to right around 5 volts and didnt drop as the book said, but it was at least reading now. This could have been the reason for my hard starting PRIOR to the above isue.

I checked the camshaft sensor and it tested fine as well.

I open up the oil cap and looked inside while cranking and saw the shaft move which led me to believe that the timing chain was not broke.

I did all of that turned the key and the car again only turned over (many times) but it never caught. I guess that is the one I cant figure out is why it doesnt catch.

I also checked the ECM fuses and they all read appropriately.

I cant see how the starter would be the issue because the car is turning over, but just not catching or starting; however, it is turning over fast.

Is it possible that with all of my attempts to start it that the plugs are too saturated with gas? Im looking for the next thing to check and running out of options.

 

I would check the Engine Coolant Temp Sensor and go back and check the Camshaft Sensor. Your car gave out on the highway without any codes which has me thinking you should check those.

 

I checked the Camshaft sensor and it tested fine according to specs - and there was no code sent for it. I will look into finding out how to check the ECTS - any quick thoughts otherwise Ill look it up.

 

just for a chance, i'd use a spray or two of starting fluid (aka ether) the next time before you try to start it.

 

Thought about it - still dont know why it cut off. So I realize I have potentially multiple issues, but seem strange that it wont catch. It used to catch even the morning of (thus it started). Even after the max cut off on the highway I turned it a few times and it tried to catch, but nothing now. I will check the ECTS.

If it possible that the plugs are too saturated with gas? Do I need to change the plugs again? I just changed them 2 months ago.

 

run A Compression Check.

 

this^

 

Any link to how to perform a compression check or what the metrics should be

 

Loan a tool compression tester from the parts store.
pull the fuel pump 15 amp fuse, crank to release fuel pressure (do you know you have fuel pressure?)
remove all plugs, check each cylinder one at at time. FSM says min 140 PSI, high is 185.
Make sure battery is well charged.

 

Just a thought, if the ECTS, went out driving down the freeway, would it put the car in limp mode? Because IIRC, if your car gets too hot it will go into limp mode and won't let you go past 2000 rpm.

 

Possibly might be a broken drive plate if ur an automatic after you have checked everything else. U can check by taking your starter out and try to turn the drive plate teeth with ur finger. If it spins then your drive plate has been broken. If its stiff and wont turn, then its something else. This can cause ur car to stall out while driving also.

 

I've just seen this recently and its pretty easy to check.

 

I will be performing the compression test on tomorrow and also checking the ECTS. If that is not the problem I will move to the drive plate.

Would these issues cause the car to attempt to start (again not catching) and also cause the car to turn off driving down the road?

 

Any more thoughts on the question above

 

wow. your going way too far. lol. ive had the exact same issue. the starter is weak ONTOP of your main issue.

it is multiple issues. you have yet to once mention any service on the starter. buy a rebuilt one and it will wind right up. you'd be surprised a weak starter that "works" might still be too weak to turn over the car and just keep turning and turning. a strong one should be quick and spin really fast.

once you fix that, look to your stalling issue.

 

Guys Im back with more results and need some more help troubleshooting.

So I took out the starter and got it tested. The drive gear was not adjusting as it should so I replaced it, and now it sounds and cranks like I would expect - but still no start.

I also replaced three of the spark plugs (in the front) with new ones because the prior plugs were black as it appeared it was getting alot of fuel. After I did both items from above, I cranked it over and the car actually backfired twice (something it has NEVER done before). So need some advice there.

I did a compression test on two of the front three cylinders (the two to the left), but wasnt sure if I was doing it properly. The initial reading measured 60, and the subsequent cranks took it to 90. I could use some feedback on this as well.

 

Did you take all six plugs out first? You must do that. If you did, and that is all you got (PSI?), you have serious problems with your engine. If it backfired, I am wondering about your valve train/timing chain.

 

pull all six sparkplugs and check compression on all cylinders. let it crank for 3-5 seconds, give it a break and then let it crank for another 3-5 seconds and note reading you get. repeat for a six cylinders & then report back. get new plugs for the back cylinders also.

 

Appreciate the feedback on the compression test. I am also thinking that I might have a vacuum leak. Prior to the problem when the gas pedal was pushed you could hear a sound like air going out of a tire. So I am more and more thinking I have a vacuum leak which I believe could also explain the backfire when I read other posts. So in addition to the compression test, and good advice on checking for vacuum leaks.

 

Car now backfires in the intake.
Where should i look now?

 

Time for a leak down test.

 

Latest update:
Replaced ECTS and FPR (both brand new) & car still wont start.

The car turns over but will not start. I have not done the compression & leak down test, but my question is would that prevent the car from starting or just cause it run hard or stall after starting.

Recap:
- Replaced crankshaft REF sensor (after bad reading)
- Checked crankshaft and camshaft sensors and both checked good
- Check MAF sensor and it tested good
- Cleaned Throttle body
- Checked IACV and continuity was good between connections
- Able to get spark (checked plugs and saw spark)
- Sparks were black indicating rich fuel
- Replaced three plugs
- Replaced ECTS and FPR
- Replaced Fuel Filter
- Replaced starter (drive piston was not engaging previously)
- I can hear fuel pump engage when I turn the key to ON position
- Also, fuel is very present as it can be smelled strongly from outside of the vehicle


So I am unclear of where to go from here. If it was rough idling or sluggish I could see a compression or leak test adding value, but I can't get the car to start. If anyone has suggestions/input to help I would be all for it. I am totally stumped.

 

You replaced the crankshaft REF sensor but what about the POS sensor? Did you inspect and test the wire harness?

 

Yes all harnesses were checked when I checked the sensors, and both crankshaft sensors were tested (REF - appeared to be bad as it didnt fluctuate between 5ohms as expected when the magnet was touched) - Camshaft was tested as well.

 

Umm... I believe your phrase was meant to say (POS appeared to be bad as it didn't change from 0V to 5V when a screwdriver was moved close and away from the magnet).

The REF sensor is measured in ohms which has to fall between 470 - 570 ohms. I would record a videoe of it cranking with a full battery so that we can hear how it sounds to determine the cause.

 

You are correct

I will record the sound and post.

 

The first time I cranked the engine the phone was sitting on the dash with me. The next few times the phone was on top of the intake box. Wanted to get all the sounds I could for you guys.

 

So, did you do the test correctly with all 6 plugs removed and still only got 90 PSI?

 

Link to sound. http://youtu.be/jQC_vjcPMr0

 

I didn't perform the compression test with all plugs out - I was asking would that cause the car not to start at all, or be rough and idle. The compression test is still something that can be performed, I was just not understanding how that would prevent the car from starting. Running bad, yes but not - not starting.

I have added the sounds it makes now and hopefully that can help.

 

If your compression is that low, on each cylinder, you have valves hanging open, blown head gasket or something more serious. Maybe the intake/exhaust timing is off. Not sure if the chain can skip and cause that our not, but that might explain the low numbers.

Why don't you pull the front valve cover and watch the action of the valves when cranking.

Are you getting in fuel in the oil?

I dont have an opinion on the recording other than it doesnt really sound correct. Seems to be spinning fast, maybe against a lack of compression?

 

Thanks. I could look at the action of the valves.

As far as fuel I have plenty of fuel - but I believe you were trying to ask a different question.

It does sound fast, but to be honest I became oblivious to how it used to sound since I have been working on this for close to a month.

 

What I was getting at is this: Is the oil contaminated with fuel? You might want to check that. Would indicate that something is amiss if gas is getting down into the crankcase.

You have more patience that I do! I would have rolled it off a cliff by now!