I gotta tell you that 386k is inspiring. I hope you find the answer to your problem.

Mine is only at 216k, and the reason I can't help is that in 14 years, it never failed to start once......

 

Ok I saw it and listened to it a few times. After doing a few cranks, remove the spark plugs and check for fuel at the tip of them. Verify that all 6 have gas on it. If now, check the Camshaft Position Sensor on the timing cover.

 

I will check the plugs as suggested. Also, I have already checked the voltage on the Camshaft Position sensor and it checked fine. Is there something else I need to check with the sensor?

 

If it's turning over its not starter

 

You have to measure the resistance of the sensor itself depending on make (Hitachi or Mitsubishi). Here are the values you are looking for:

Hitachi (1440 - 1760 ohms)
Mitsubishi (2090 - 2550 ohms)

Report back the value you have from your sensor.

 

My 2003 turned off on my father when he was driving it, and it was hard to turn on, just felt like the car was trying too hard.

We needed to replace the crank sensors because they were starting to go bad and the car would lose the connection and turn off (but weren't far gone enough to turn it back on with a few tries)

 

Mitsubishi 2442 ohms

I got a feeling the alternator is bad because the battery drains down in 3 days if not run, but I have eliminated that from the starting problem because as long as the battery is charged (when I have been charging separately) that is all that is needed from the side. If someone believes that view is wrong - share thoughts.

 

Crank sensors were checked and one was even replaced as mentioned before. Agreed that this was one of the first things I checked. Was sad to see the new replacement (not junkyard) as not fixing the problem.

 

Any other ideas?

 

So worked more on the car today. All 6 plugs have gas. Since others have said that the ECU does not go bad often, any other ideas?

 

Only other thing I can think of is check timing with a timing light.

 

MaxCane, check your PM.

DW

 

my ecu went out on my car and i had the exact same issues as you do everything looked and sounded good all the sensors were ok it would crank all day but wouldnt start. took it to a shop and they said the only thing it could be was the ecu it got replaced and car runs fine. i got a 95 with a 97 computer i bought a oem computer from a dealership near me its brand new in the original box ill sell it to you for a good price if ur interested. from what it seems mine went out cause the humidity caused moister build up and wiped it out but everything worked fuel and spark but it just wouldnt fire. they rarely go out but it does happen. if you want to buy the one i got pm me

 

Kuhn_man I sent you a PM. I am interested.

 

Your car reminds me of a 97 GXE my automotive class tried to diagnose and fix.

At first we tested the basics, spark, fuel, air. And everything checked out fine, we pull out a fuel line to see if fuel was being delivered and ect. We hooked up testers to the injectors, and tested various sensors, as well.

Then pulled off the valve covers to see if the cams and valves were spinning/opening/closing and everything looked fine.

Then we did a compression test, and the numbers were in the 100 somethings, but nothing looked strange, then we did the test where pressure was put on a cylinder to see if the pressure would hold. And that was good too.

Then I believe the foreman suggested trying to crank it over by hand to see if it was seized or if we can see anything. And then after a turn or two it wouldn't turn anymore. And we pretty much ran out of ideas, and we assumed the problem might be with the engine but before we could hatch up any new ideas the man had came back to tow his car to his brothers shop.

And after a month, and throwing lots of parts at it. It was the starter, apparently it was somehow skipping teeth and that skip was enough to make it not start. I am still unsure why that was enough to make it crank and crank and crank without being able to start. Also, it cranked over pretty fast too, so everyone ruled out the starter.

Yeah that was two years ago, ago sorry about the novel, but good luck! I hope you find your problem and fix it!

 

Thanks for the response. I too did not think it was the starter, but running out of options I had it checked a few weeks ago. When I had it tested it was not engaging the drive piston as it should so I replaced it. I could tell a difference when it cranked, but it still didn't start.

The only things I have left to try that I know of is adding additional grounds and swapping out the ECU. I have been trying to find a way to hook up a more intense diagnostic tool to scan for live readings hoping that might help, but not sure of the right tool to buy (within a reasonable price).

 

were you successfull in getting a timing reading with the timing light? Also, you mentioned replacing one crank sensor. I would replace the other one as well regardless of condition.

DW

 

DW, I havent been able to find a timing light for loan/rent yet. I am asking around to see if I can borrow one.

I checked the other crank sensor and since it checked good I am not eager to replace it. I did clean it up. If I knew it was the problem or was sending a CEL I would; however, if the sensor/part tests good I am hesitant to replace. This is the other reason I am looking for a better diagnostic tool to help isolate the issue.

 

It seems like a lot of guys have the same issue! Except the guy with the grounding issue has that starter sound where its spinning really fast and trying to catch like your car. But his eventually starts.

I wish I could see your car in person.

 

Leo, you tell me what you want to record and perform and I will I realize its not the same, but Im up for anything. I have the timing test to perform once I can find the timing light and the additional grounds.

When it comes to the grounds what are all of the grounds I need to add? An additional ground from the starter? Crank sensor?

 

I would suggest adding a GND wire straight from the battery NEG terminal down to the long mounting bolt on the starter. Also try adding GND wires to these 4 spots.



Use low gauge wire with large terminals crimped on. Clean the mounting spots with degreaser and sandpaper. When I added in those GND wires I also replaced the OEM NEG terminal wire. She now starts within 2 seconds on cold mornings.

 

Any updates on this car?


Zack

 

I was out of town for a few days and was able to get back to it yet. I was able to located an ECM from the junkyard for $45 so I will be picking it up at the first part of next week.
I will have to buy a timing light in order to perform the other test. So I am shopping around for now as I dont normally need one so I need to limit my cost there.
I have the grounds to do and thats all other then the ECM. I did buy the Actron 9580 to see if any other codes pop. So I should have some updates early next week.
I told a buddy I need to find a 95-99 that I can rent so I can cannibalize some parts and find out what does/doesn't work.

 

I am somewhat sure that this will be of no help, but......A few years ago my mechanic was doing the valve cover gaskets on my 1996. After he was done, the car would not start; it just cranked and cranked. After he spent hours pouring over my car, he finally realized that a wire in the bundle near the valve cover was brittle and broke. I guess moving the harness to do the valve cover caused it to break. He was pulling his hair out dealing with my car that time.

Zack

 

This is my biggest worry with my old car...if I work around the manifold area i try to be as gentle as possible with the wire harnesses.

DW

 

buddy of mine had a similar prob heres a video of it not starting

and hers a video of it starting after he added a nice thick ground from neg battery post to the bolt on the tranny

not saying you issue but worth a look

heres a pic of a good mounting point on the trans

 

Thanks for the pic luke

 

That's a great pic, and that's exactly the grounds I added to my car.

DW

 

Mine had this prob yesterday. I reset the ecu and it tried to start but no joy. added the ground to trans from neg on battery and she started first turn off the key

 

for the guys want to add a ground from batt to trans advance auto sells different lengths with crimped on ends for about 6 dollars in the lawn mower section

 

Added the additional ground and no luck. Still turns over fast like before.

Also hooked up scanner and got Engine speed and ignition timing numbers.
The ignition setting came up at 15.0 - 16.0 each time when I cranked it over.
The engine speed was always under 293, with only a few exceptions where it peaked at the very beginning up to 383 which is when it sounded like it wanted to start.

And alas no codes other than the knock sensor.

 

i had a similar problem although it was a 1998 trans am found out it was a couple of broken springs on the heads , the car went into limp mode and since your car has 300 and better in miles i would check to see if anything is loose on the heads.Good luck !

 

Your compression is good.
Your timing is good.

Therefore, mechanically, that car is sound.

The problem is deifinitely electrical, then. And it may be a bad harness losing conecctivity to a vital component, like your crank sensors.

I know you have added grounds, you may have to consider also removing and re-doing existing connections.

I would start by looking at all connections related to the crank sensors, make sure the ground from transmission to motor block is good etc.

Where's Sherlock Holmes and Watson when you need them?

DW

 

Crank harness especially from tranny side.

 

I still think its fuel related. Idk though I could be wrong. Just to double check, maxcanes, you CAN hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key to "on" (second click) correct?

 

your getting fuel. your getting spark. you will need a good compression to get that motor started. i would run a compression test on it before going any further.

sorry, didnt read all the post b4 posting dis

 

Yes I can hear the fuel pump prime when I turn the key on. I also removed the back seat and had someone else turn it the key on just to be 100% positive.

I performed the compression test already and posted the results a few postings above with all of the readings. This was a suggestion and a way to eliminate if the chain had thrown a tooth.

On the crank sensor located on the tranny. If I remove the screwdriver and the voltage does not drop back down what is that indicative of? I will look at that again, but that is the only thing I can remember is that I dont think it dropped back to zero.

Thanks to all for the feedback/suggestions. This is so frustrating because in my mind it has to be something that I am missing, but can't find it. I was hoping the scan tool would have given me some DTC's or something to at least hint at a problem.

 

It means the sensor is no good. If it tests out good, remove the harness from sensor and inspect the sharp bend near the sensor for any broken wires.

 

+1 on this. It can ohm out fine and still not work well enough. Replacing this crank sensor solve my "long cranking" problem 2.5 years ago; has been starting fine ever since.

 

This is a brand new sensor. I will check the wires.