1997 maxima fuel system problems
02-27-2014, 04:51 AM
#1
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1997 maxima fuel system problems
ok so my car was running fine till one night where I gassed the car up. shortly after it started sputtering and not wanting to idle, I made it home then the next morning it didn't want to start. the fuel pump isn't powering on I checked it with a volt meter and I'm getting power to the bigger plug but nothing to the other one. I pulled out the pump and connected direct power to it and it did come on. I'm also not getting any power to the fuse although the fuse is good. there is power to the fuel pump relay it seems to be functioning as normal. I pulled these codes and I know two are evap related I pulled p0705, p0903,p0402
02-27-2014, 10:00 AM
#2
Ok - there is no P0903, P0402 is EGRC-BPT Valve function and P0705 is the automatic transmission inhibitor switch.
What you did is assume (wrongly) that the blinking check engine light method give you the OBD P codes.
What you have is:
0903 = P0446 - EVAP Canister Vent Control Valve
0705 = P0440 - EVAP Control System (Small Leak)
0402 = P0180 - Fuel Temperature Sensor
You can get the translation from the FSM or go here to get the translation:
http://boredmder.com/ecucodes/index.php
Now to your fuel pump problem. Let's start with fuses. What fuse are you checking that has no power? There are 2 fuses that supply power to the fuel pump relay.
Fuse # 17 supplies power to energize the relay. This fuse also supplies power to 14 other things, so unless a lot of other things don't work, this fuse is probably OK. I'd check it anyway, just in case. (middle column, 6 up from the bottom, labeled ENGINE CONTROL)
Fuse # 32 supplies power to the relay contacts that will be sent to the fuel pump. Only the fuel pump uses this fuse.
Sometimes just looking at the fuse does not indicate a blown fuse. You need to check it for continuity. But for quick diagnosing, swap it with another fuse.
For a wiring diagram of the fuel pump circuit, go to page 362 in the EC section of the FSM. Here is a link to the EC section:
http://boredmder.com/FSMs/Nissan/Maxima/1997/EC.pdf
You said you did not have power at the fuse but did have power at the relay. Those 2 statements seem to contradict each other. But it all depends on where you were measuring. If you were measuring at the relay itself, you would find 12 volts at 2, maybe 3, pins on the relay in a good working system. This is because of the 2 fuses.
You need to trace the circuit for fuse # 32, the one labeled FUEL PUMP. Because of what you have said, let's start at the relay. Remove the relay and check for 12 volts at pin 3 in the relay socket. If you look on the bottom of the relay, it has the pin numbers on it, the socket does not. Also, the the probe of your voltmeter might be too big to touch the contact in the socket. You may have to use something small like a pin in the socket.
If you don't have 12 volts at pin 3, check pin 1 in the socket. This is a sanity test to see if your test setup is good. If you don't have 12 volts on pin 1, check and see if the ignition switch is on, it must be on. If still no 12 volts, check your connections.
If you have 12 volts on pin 3 and with the relay plugged in you do not have 12 volts at the fuel pump, either the relay isn't working or you have a wiring problem.
You said that you did not measure any voltage on the small connector of the fuel tank sending unit. This is the connector for the fuel pump. Specifically, the black with yellow stripe wire is the one that should have 12 volts on it.
Check the black with yellow stripe wire for continuity between the relay socket and the fuel tank sending unit. Have the ignition switch off and the relay and the connector on the fuel tank unplugged when you do this.
If you have continuity, the wire is good and it would appear that the relay is not energizing. Swap the relay with one that is the SAME COLOR. You could have 2 other relays next to the fuel pump relay, one for the sunroof and one for the ABS brakes. You could use the sunroof one if you have it. Otherwise, go under the hood by the power steering fluid reservoir and use a horn relay.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that when you turn the ignition key to the ON position, the fuel pump will only run for a second or two. If the engine does not start, the ECU shuts off the fuel pump by de-energizing the relay. So you have to have the voltmeter hooked up and ready to go and be looking at the voltmeter when you turn the key on.
I am ignoring the fuel pump control module at this point in time. It could be a problem, but it can't prevent the 12 volts from getting to the fuel pump.
What you did is assume (wrongly) that the blinking check engine light method give you the OBD P codes.
What you have is:
0903 = P0446 - EVAP Canister Vent Control Valve
0705 = P0440 - EVAP Control System (Small Leak)
0402 = P0180 - Fuel Temperature Sensor
You can get the translation from the FSM or go here to get the translation:
http://boredmder.com/ecucodes/index.php
Now to your fuel pump problem. Let's start with fuses. What fuse are you checking that has no power? There are 2 fuses that supply power to the fuel pump relay.
Fuse # 17 supplies power to energize the relay. This fuse also supplies power to 14 other things, so unless a lot of other things don't work, this fuse is probably OK. I'd check it anyway, just in case. (middle column, 6 up from the bottom, labeled ENGINE CONTROL)
Fuse # 32 supplies power to the relay contacts that will be sent to the fuel pump. Only the fuel pump uses this fuse.
Sometimes just looking at the fuse does not indicate a blown fuse. You need to check it for continuity. But for quick diagnosing, swap it with another fuse.
For a wiring diagram of the fuel pump circuit, go to page 362 in the EC section of the FSM. Here is a link to the EC section:
http://boredmder.com/FSMs/Nissan/Maxima/1997/EC.pdf
You said you did not have power at the fuse but did have power at the relay. Those 2 statements seem to contradict each other. But it all depends on where you were measuring. If you were measuring at the relay itself, you would find 12 volts at 2, maybe 3, pins on the relay in a good working system. This is because of the 2 fuses.
You need to trace the circuit for fuse # 32, the one labeled FUEL PUMP. Because of what you have said, let's start at the relay. Remove the relay and check for 12 volts at pin 3 in the relay socket. If you look on the bottom of the relay, it has the pin numbers on it, the socket does not. Also, the the probe of your voltmeter might be too big to touch the contact in the socket. You may have to use something small like a pin in the socket.
If you don't have 12 volts at pin 3, check pin 1 in the socket. This is a sanity test to see if your test setup is good. If you don't have 12 volts on pin 1, check and see if the ignition switch is on, it must be on. If still no 12 volts, check your connections.
If you have 12 volts on pin 3 and with the relay plugged in you do not have 12 volts at the fuel pump, either the relay isn't working or you have a wiring problem.
You said that you did not measure any voltage on the small connector of the fuel tank sending unit. This is the connector for the fuel pump. Specifically, the black with yellow stripe wire is the one that should have 12 volts on it.
Check the black with yellow stripe wire for continuity between the relay socket and the fuel tank sending unit. Have the ignition switch off and the relay and the connector on the fuel tank unplugged when you do this.
If you have continuity, the wire is good and it would appear that the relay is not energizing. Swap the relay with one that is the SAME COLOR. You could have 2 other relays next to the fuel pump relay, one for the sunroof and one for the ABS brakes. You could use the sunroof one if you have it. Otherwise, go under the hood by the power steering fluid reservoir and use a horn relay.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that when you turn the ignition key to the ON position, the fuel pump will only run for a second or two. If the engine does not start, the ECU shuts off the fuel pump by de-energizing the relay. So you have to have the voltmeter hooked up and ready to go and be looking at the voltmeter when you turn the key on.
I am ignoring the fuel pump control module at this point in time. It could be a problem, but it can't prevent the 12 volts from getting to the fuel pump.
02-27-2014, 11:22 AM
#3
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Another thing I'd like to point out is that when you turn the ignition key to the ON position, the fuel pump will only run for a second or two. If the engine does not start, the ECU shuts off the fuel pump by de-energizing the relay. So you have to have the voltmeter hooked up and ready to go and be looking at the voltmeter when you turn the key on.
My vote is that his measurements were done after the ECU de-energized the pump after the key was turned on.
02-27-2014, 07:16 PM
#4
I was thinking that also, but voltages from the fuses to the relay should be there as long as the ignition switch is turned on.
Since the ECU turns off the fuel pump relay when it does not get the signal from the CKPS(POS) sensor, that popped into my head when I read the part about the engine sputtering. But based on what the op said about voltages, I went with the check voltage stuff.
Since the ECU turns off the fuel pump relay when it does not get the signal from the CKPS(POS) sensor, that popped into my head when I read the part about the engine sputtering. But based on what the op said about voltages, I went with the check voltage stuff.
02-28-2014, 02:51 PM
#5
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so I have a update still no luck with getting power to the fuel pump. I checked for codes those cleared I threw a diff. one its a p0505. when I turn the ignition to start position I hear a buzz and a series of clicks that wont stop coming from under the hood near the intake manifold, until I turn off the ignition.
03-01-2014, 10:28 AM
#7
You have 2 different problems. The P0505 is the IAVC (Idle Air Control Valve). The car will still start with this code but the idle will run up and down between maybe 2K rpm and engine dying out. You could still drive the car, but low speeds might be a problem with a 2K idle.
In the 5th gens, the P0505 is a serious problem because it can destroy the ECU. I don't know if the 4th gen is as delicate. I would advise you to at least unplug the IACV while you work on the fuel pump problem. The car will start with the IACV unplugged, but the idle will be wrong.
The IACV has a stepper motor in it that has been known to short. There is a resistance measurement (4 of them) you can do on the motor windings. See page 260 in section EC of the service manual: http://boredmder.com/FSMs/Nissan/Maxima/1997/EC.pdf
All 4 windings should measure about 30 ohms and there should only be 1 or 2 ohms difference between them. I suspect that you will find one that is shorted (0 ohms).
What have you done for testing the fuel pump problem?
In the 5th gens, the P0505 is a serious problem because it can destroy the ECU. I don't know if the 4th gen is as delicate. I would advise you to at least unplug the IACV while you work on the fuel pump problem. The car will start with the IACV unplugged, but the idle will be wrong.
The IACV has a stepper motor in it that has been known to short. There is a resistance measurement (4 of them) you can do on the motor windings. See page 260 in section EC of the service manual: http://boredmder.com/FSMs/Nissan/Maxima/1997/EC.pdf
All 4 windings should measure about 30 ohms and there should only be 1 or 2 ohms difference between them. I suspect that you will find one that is shorted (0 ohms).
What have you done for testing the fuel pump problem?
03-02-2014, 09:47 AM
#8
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for the fuel pump issue, I went threw the fuel system checking for power. I started at the fuse box checking the fuses first, there all ok, then I checked for power at the fuel pump relay there is power and it does click when you turn the ignition to the start position. then I went back to the fuel pump pulled both clips there's power to the bigger plug, I have nothing on the smaller one. I'm stumped from here I don't know what to do next.
03-02-2014, 10:10 AM
#9
I need some very specific answers to fully understand exactly how or what you are doing. Some of your answers seem vague to me.
1) When you test for power at the fuel pump relay, exactly where/how are you testing? If you remove the relay and test in the relay socket, you should find 12 volts on 2 pins, 1 and 3. Do you have power on both pins when the ignition is turned on?
2) At the gas tank sending unit, at the small 2 wire connector for the fuel pump, have you checked the continuity of the wire that comes from the relay? It is the black with yellow stripe wire.
1) When you test for power at the fuel pump relay, exactly where/how are you testing? If you remove the relay and test in the relay socket, you should find 12 volts on 2 pins, 1 and 3. Do you have power on both pins when the ignition is turned on?
2) At the gas tank sending unit, at the small 2 wire connector for the fuel pump, have you checked the continuity of the wire that comes from the relay? It is the black with yellow stripe wire.
03-02-2014, 11:11 AM
#10
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as in pin 1 & 3 that's the brown/pink , and black/pink right? if so yes there's power to those wires.
there's no power to the black/yellow or black/white wires.
and to the sending unit theres no power to the black/yellow or green/yellow.
there's no power to the black/yellow or black/white wires.
and to the sending unit theres no power to the black/yellow or green/yellow.
03-03-2014, 12:12 AM
#11
According to the service manual that I have, the fuel pump relay wire colors are:
pin 1 = solid brown - From what you tell me this has a pink stripe I guess.
Pin 3 = black with white stripe
pin 2 = black with pink stripe
pin 4 = black with yellow stripe
You said that you did not have 12 volts on the black/white stripe wire (pin 3). This is not good. This wire is power from fuse # 32, the one labeled Fuel Pump. This is the power that will go to the fuel pump on the black/yellow stripe wire. Replace fuse # 32 and test again.
Since you had power on the black/pink wire, that means 2 things. Fuse 17 is good and sending power to the relay. It is going through the relay energizing coil to show up on the black pink wire. That's good. What it also tells me is that the ECU has the fuel pump shut off. This is normal and good.
Remember - if the engine is not running, the ECU shuts off the fuel pump. The ECU will will connect the black/pink wire to ground to energize the relay for a second or 2 when the ignition switch is turned on. If the engine doesn't start, it removes the ground connection.
The task is to find out why the black/white wire does not have 12 volts on it.
pin 1 = solid brown - From what you tell me this has a pink stripe I guess.
Pin 3 = black with white stripe
pin 2 = black with pink stripe
pin 4 = black with yellow stripe
You said that you did not have 12 volts on the black/white stripe wire (pin 3). This is not good. This wire is power from fuse # 32, the one labeled Fuel Pump. This is the power that will go to the fuel pump on the black/yellow stripe wire. Replace fuse # 32 and test again.
Since you had power on the black/pink wire, that means 2 things. Fuse 17 is good and sending power to the relay. It is going through the relay energizing coil to show up on the black pink wire. That's good. What it also tells me is that the ECU has the fuel pump shut off. This is normal and good.
Remember - if the engine is not running, the ECU shuts off the fuel pump. The ECU will will connect the black/pink wire to ground to energize the relay for a second or 2 when the ignition switch is turned on. If the engine doesn't start, it removes the ground connection.
The task is to find out why the black/white wire does not have 12 volts on it.
Last edited by DennisMik; 03-03-2014 at 12:27 AM.
03-03-2014, 02:02 AM
#12
Maybe your fuel pump is dying. The ECU circuitry may be protecting itself from sending too much current to the fuel pump for a long time. When you turn the key to the RUN position, do you hear the pump whirring? If so, that could be a sign.....the fuel pump is normally silent.
Also, how regularly did you change your fuel filter? If you've never changed it before, that would make your fuel pump work harder. They're supposed to be changed every 30K miles.
Also, how regularly did you change your fuel filter? If you've never changed it before, that would make your fuel pump work harder. They're supposed to be changed every 30K miles.
03-04-2014, 09:42 PM
#13
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ok thanks guys I got everything worked out as far as my fuel problems go. I had to change fuse #32 for some reason it wasn't blown but wasn't working. I changed my fuel filter. I just got the car so it went ahead and did it. thanks for everyone's input it was really helpful I appreciate it.
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