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This guy did a turbo/00VI. He described his top end as "violent," if that's what you're looking to achieve. I am just sayin'............................
You better do the rods, pistons, and crank while your in there.
You're*
No. They're fine.
Originally Posted by dwapenyi
This guy did a turbo/00VI. He described his top end as "violent," if that's what you're looking to achieve. I am just sayin'............................
I first addressed the head lift issue with a turbo car by buying Juke headstuds and arp washers. This will require me to tap into the block a bit so that I can thread them correctly.
Then I got a rev-up oil pump so that it will keep up with the increased demand from my engine.
(those 2 upgrade"bulletproof" your vq against boost)
With those 2 things out of the way, I decided to look at rev up cams... and then I bought them
In order to make them work you need jwt cam adapers 3.0 to 3.5. 2 sets.
Cams being secured I decided to beef up the valvetrain... so to my local nissan dealership I went and I ordered:
So with that all ordered this should make my engine fairly bullet proof and also one of the more extensive builds on a 3.0 dek. I am trying to go for as much power as I can on OEM parts... just by cannibalizing newer nissan technology its amazing to see the possibilities for this 20 year old car.
Build starts thursday with the 6spd swap and the 00vi install. Then its engine out and cams and valve train work... as well as new oil pump and the all important headstuds.
I will take lots of pics and attempt to walk you through how this is done.
Seriously man this is what is bothering me about this build:
Look at the Rev-up pump, it will not flow any more oil or meet you needs better, you are not going to be any safer on boost with it vs the normal pump. The only difference is the material the Rev-up pump is made out of is stronger than the non-revup but that only matters if you are revving past 7500rpm
Further more you are not bulletproofing against boost right now, your building a motor to Rev high. Look up Ceffy's NA VQ30 build this is what he did. Rev-up cams do not require valve springs upgrades(I was and still am running them on the stock valvetrain). The only way you will get your money's worth out of valve spring upgrade is if you plan to rev the **** out of it, when i say rev the **** out of it i mean beyond 7500rpm. here is the problem:
Rev-up cams will not support that.
Some S1 cams, Nismo R-tune cams, Debulouz cams will support a 7800rpm, and that is honestly all you need for your projected power levels, just a cam upgrade.
The way to "bulletproof" the 3.0 against boost is to swap in the DET internals. Use ARP Rodbolts, and main caps, no need to retap the block use VQ35 headstuds from ARP they fit in the 3.0 block. The bottom end is what is built for boost. That is how it is done and how it has always been done. Because contrary to popular belief the VQ30 is barely if any stronger than the VQ35. What you are doing is building a motor that can rev to around +8k rpm but has inadequate cams to do so. Further more you do not need a high redline to produce power on boost with the VQ. You want more power add more boost. Stock cams will become a limitation with their lack of duration.
So you seriously might want to re-think this. You might be spending a bunch of money on something that's not going to produce the outcome you were expecting. I'm not trying to troll you im just telling you what i know from doing research on this stuff since 2006, and i want to see your project come to fruition. Cam upgrade is all you need, the stock Valvetrain is fine, the bottom end is what you should be worried about. Hal figure this out back in the day when he made 500whp and blew a few motors on the way. Talk to Nealoc too, he is one of the few OGs left that still post and is great with boosted 3.0's and actually owns the infamous 500whp car.
But that is the last i will say about it take it or leave it. Up to you.
I'll just sit back,don my 3D glasses, and enjoy this movie. I hope it's a thriller, and not a horror
LOLZ,
It will be a good one...
Waiting now because UPS decided to play kickball with my cams and actually broke one in half...
Waiting on a replacement set from the guy I bought them from (thank god he had 2 sets of HR cams sitting around.)
Also waiting on vipervadim to get me a set of cam adapters, he speaks super technically and sometimes I have a hard time grasping what he says, but the gist of it is that I need 2 sets of nwp spacers, one set needs to be modified to get the exhaust (or intake cam... don't remember right now) running correctly...
Then I can finally get the party started...
Originally Posted by Crusher103
Seriously man this is what is bothering me about this build:
Look at the Rev-up pump, it will not flow any more oil or meet you needs better, you are not going to be any safer on boost with it vs the normal pump. The only difference is the material the Rev-up pump is made out of is stronger than the non-revup but that only matters if you are revving past 7500rpm
Further more you are not bulletproofing against boost right now, your building a motor to Rev high. Look up Ceffy's NA VQ30 build this is what he did. Rev-up cams do not require valve springs upgrades(I was and still am running them on the stock valvetrain). The only way you will get your money's worth out of valve spring upgrade is if you plan to rev the **** out of it, when i say rev the **** out of it i mean beyond 7500rpm. here is the problem:
Rev-up cams will not support that.
Some S1 cams, Nismo R-tune cams, Debulouz cams will support a 7800rpm, and that is honestly all you need for your projected power levels, just a cam upgrade.
The way to "bulletproof" the 3.0 against boost is to swap in the DET internals. Use ARP Rodbolts, and main caps, no need to retap the block use VQ35 headstuds from ARP they fit in the 3.0 block. The bottom end is what is built for boost. That is how it is done and how it has always been done. Because contrary to popular belief the VQ30 is barely if any stronger than the VQ35. What you are doing is building a motor that can rev to around +8k rpm but has inadequate cams to do so. Further more you do not need a high redline to produce power on boost with the VQ. You want more power add more boost. Stock cams will become a limitation with their lack of duration.
So you seriously might want to re-think this. You might be spending a bunch of money on something that's not going to produce the outcome you were expecting. I'm not trying to troll you im just telling you what i know from doing research on this stuff since 2006, and i want to see your project come to fruition. Cam upgrade is all you need, the stock Valvetrain is fine, the bottom end is what you should be worried about. Hal figure this out back in the day when he made 500whp and blew a few motors on the way. Talk to Nealoc too, he is one of the few OGs left that still post and is great with boosted 3.0's and actually owns the infamous 500whp car.
But that is the last i will say about it take it or leave it. Up to you.
Y U MAKE NO SENSE?
Dude, chill. I appreciate your input, (not your spelling errors tho... tighten that sh*t up)
I already have already bought everything for the build, #dealwithit.
I have already sorted out the retapping the block part for the juke headstuds, and its not really retapping its just bottoming out the hole a little more... its just a super rare tap that doesn't come in any tap kit ever, so I had to buy one seperate. (its an M11 x 1.25 if you are interested)
In my mind, and the people who are helping me with this, bulletproofing means making the engine capable of handling more than what you are planning on doing to it, so thats why all the valvetrain work...
Also, stay with me here, this is my thought process for the engine
"Crap... what usually gets messed up on these cars" => "I've personally helped swap 2 dek engines this year on buddies cars who OUTRAN their oil pumps." => "HR oil pump purchase."
"I have a turbo, what usually happens with a turbo?" => "Oh yeah people blow the crap outta their head gasket due to head lift and cheap gaskets." => "I heard this thing where you can take juke headstuds which are just as good as ARP headstuds and with a slight modification to the block drop them bishes in there, and there are cometic copper gaskets for our head? Purchased."
"Where is the power actually made on an engine? The top end." => "Since I want a bulletproof engine and I feel like being saucy, lets do an HR valvetrain upgrade, that way I wont ever have to worry about floating a valve or doing any other damage that could happen to my car because of my high revving dek and set up."
(Note: I am interested to see how much my flywheel affects gaining and losing revs... in theory it should be substantial.. but again another reason not to make valves punch the underside of my hood.)
This is how I am gonna do it, stock bottom end, hr valverain and cams, all of the other stuff I mentioned earlier.
the oil pump doesn't seem to make more oil volume...but it will hold up to high RPM w/o going boom.
litch... main use of the car (DD, qtr mile pounder)?
trollmobile.
I dd a chevy truck. It is garage queen/rolling joke. I just want to be able to get that look from people when I am driving. Not planning on taking it to the track much, gonna finish the build, get it on a dyno so I have an actual whp number... then I am gonna spend the rest of my life waxing and cleaning it... cause thats my favorite part of owning a car...
I dd a chevy truck. It is garage queen/rolling joke. I just want to be able to get that look from people when I am driving. Not planning on taking it to the track much, gonna finish the build, get it on a dyno so I have an actual whp number... then I am gonna spend the rest of my life waxing and cleaning it... cause thats my favorite part of owning a car...
so basically what i'm doing in my car...
but mine is more of a DD now.
sooo you really don't want to have to wait for the turbo to spool up to get boost...since you're gonna be trolling on the streets and you need good low/mid RPM boost response. what krusher is saying has some truth to it. at the end of the day it's your money...you do what you want.
Also, stay with me here, this is my thought process for the engine
"Crap... what usually gets messed up on these cars" => "I've personally helped swap 2 dek engines this year on buddies cars who OUTRAN their oil pumps." => "HR oil pump purchase."
Last thing who outran their oil pump? I wanna see what they were doing to blow an oil pump. Was it oil starvation, due to the oil sloshing about or did the oil pump actually blow? I need details on this one. You have to really be trying to blow an oil pump.
The HR oil pump out of the RWD VQ35HRs will flow more oil than the Rev-up and stock DE pumps, but they did not build them out of the stronger grade of metal like the Rev-up pumps, What Nissan figured is since the HR is a vast improvement especially with how much they reduced vibration that it was unnecessary to have that grade material in the oil pump. WAIT, before you run off and try and buy that, the pump does not fit with out serious modification to the block therefore nobody has tried it because of that everybody just goes and buys the Nismo oil pump. Because the HR pump is bigger and does not really look as beefy internally is the DE pump they are rumored to be weaker.....
so basically what i'm doing in my car...
but mine is more of a DD now.
sooo you really don't want to have to wait for the turbo to spool up to get boost...since you're gonna be trolling on the streets and you need good low/mid RPM boost response. what krusher is saying has some truth to it. at the end of the day it's your money...you do what you want.
My set up is specifically to remove turbo lag almost entirely should I choose to. You've seen my y pipe and my short headers and you know the specs of my turbo (precision 4854 .63ar) and you also know my intention of running launch control should I need to troll someone from a dig...
I get what crusher is saying, I promise I do, I understand that my car will have an insane top end and thats why I have the turbo I have, and why I have as many low end bumping modifications as possible. But honestly I want my car to have that Dr Jekyl / Mr Hyde feeling. Below 2500 rpm, not on the throttle, I really want it to feel like a normal maxima, just putzing along.. but I want to be able to put the foot down and have a moment.
Originally Posted by Crusher103
Last thing who outran their oil pump? I wanna see what they were doing to blow an oil pump. Was it oil starvation, due to the oil sloshing about or did the oil pump actually blow? I need details on this one. You have to really be trying to blow an oil pump.
You don't know the two guys, but they are on the facebook stuff, its Danny Wilson and Victor Collins, both have high revving DEK swaps and both were racing (at different times... in mexico tho ) and both had catastrophic oil starvation failures. I was there when we tore them out, and looked at the blocks and you could see in dannys... if memory serves it was piston 3 that impacted the sidewall of the engine and looked like it had downs syndrome... and victors pump actually sheared off the block and we were picking up pieces of engine block from behind his car... it was gnarly...
#Revupordie
*note* Both were high mileage questionably maintained engines, so could it be a factor? Prolly... but fact remains both had oil lights come on before a significant Bang clatter clatter clatter....
By far my favorite so far in this whole thread atm
"I mean seriously search on google for a VQ30/35 with a failed oil pump it almost doesn't exist"
Really....Must be joking, 35de is what i am talking about. 30's I have never seen one yet with an oil pump issue.
If you can find atleast 5 cars with blown oil pumps. A VQ35 will throw a rod before an oil pump lol. I'm standing by my words, find them. Dandymax actually blew a rev-up pump in his DEK but he was revving past 8000rpm so.....
So after doing some homework I decided that my precision 4854 is too small for what I am trying to do, really responsive, but it runs out of breath. I've upgraded to a precision 6266 with a .68ar. Still responsive but able to go all the way through the powerband. DanNY actually nailed it when he and I were talking in recommending it to me
Also I got a new set of hr camshafts coming in the mail so that is all well and good.
they are getting cleaned up today and shipped tomorrow
Just waiting on a certain individual who doesn't get on here very much to ship... but he promised it would be out today... which means, fingers crossed, everything will be ready to drop in late this week early next... then I can spend a day or so with my buddy luke getting the engine all ready... then I have to drive it to an exhaust shop... pay them to wield the vband flange on my new big turbo...and boom... life is GOOOD.
They went to the machine shop prior to being shipped per my request. Those are pre shipping pics. I will take pics once they arrive. Good catch tho Danny.
I wonder how the car is doing, any updates? is it even finished yet? i wanna see the aftermath!
Its getting close josh i have some small things left then ill be dropping the engine back in and tidy up some loose ends and litch shall be tearing up the streets
06-27-2016, 07:50 AM
You better do the rods, pistons, and crank while your in there.
look from people when I am driving. Not planning on taking it to the track much, gonna finish the build, get it on a dyno so I have an actual whp number... then I am gonna spend the rest of my life waxing and cleaning it... cause thats my favorite part of owning a car...
) and both had catastrophic oil starvation failures. I was there when we tore them out, and looked at the blocks and you could see in dannys... if memory serves it was piston 3 that impacted the sidewall of the engine and looked like it had downs syndrome... and victors pump actually sheared off the block and we were picking up pieces of engine block from behind his car... it was gnarly...
