HI. I'm a noob but I do a ton of reading around here, thanks for all the help already. I have a 95 maxima SE with 230k miles

First the questions:
1. What are the proper lobe positions for when the crank is at TDC? I've searched a bunch but can't find it, only mentions of it.

2. Do you think a seized AC compressor could stop the engine from starting? I broke my serp belt and replaced it. I needed a jump to try to start it but it wouldn't turn over or even fire. Would the resistance from a seized compressor on a new belt be enough to bog down the crank/engine and result in it not starting? ( I didn't realize the AC compressor was seized when I replaced the belt).


here's my origin story though...

I was getting bad rattling on start up and when it was running. One day it was having difficulty starting and then the belt broke. A mechanic friend had said previously that the rattling was the water pump bearings going out. So, following his diagnosis I decided to just go ahead and replace the waterpump too. When I pulled the waterpump out ( it looked like the oem one), it turned freely, smoothly and silently. There was no play in the gear, it still felt very solid. I didn't know to how check the waterpump at the time,and just replaced it with a new one. I replaced everything (still not realizing the AC was seized cuz I'm a noob) tensioner, covers, belts..etc.

Like I said above when I tried to start it it wouldn't turn over. I thought I had jumped the timing chain while replacing the waterpump, but now in hindsight, it's obvious the original problem was the AC. The original rattling and then the belt breaking...was the bearings in the AC going to crap and it finally seized and broke the belt. So I also just read that I can just bypass the AC with a shorter belt (36"? I have the part# saved). So I currently have the front intake cover thingie off to pre-check the lobe positions before tearing into the timing cover to adjust the timing ( I'm 99% sure I understand how to adjust the timing). But now I'm realizing the whole issue was the AC so I think maybe I should just seal it all up and try starting it while the AC is bypassed, or start it without a belt(will it start without a belt?). Because I'm not sure if the timing is even off at this point because that was the diagnosis from the same friend that said the waterpump bearings were bad.

I'm first trying to diagnose for sure that the timing is off before tearing into the timing cover.

Sorry I'm a noob at all this but I try to read and research pretty well. I have done tons of searches on here and youtube, but I was hoping for some direct feedback on my situation. Sorry if I don't know the proper terminology or part names at this time.

Thanks for any advice or opinions that anyone can give

 

I'd say that the origin of all this is missing diagnosis by your friend. Yes, the air conditioner bearing was going out. Then it seized.

The seized belt would make the engine very hard to turn. One test before replacing the water pump would have been to remove it's belt, then try to start the engine.

Now about the water pump. You didn't need to replace it, but now it's brand new. These do go out eventually.

I'm assuming that you followed the instructions, and are now at the point when you need to turn the crank shaft. Doing that will wrap the timing chain around the pump and will stretch the tensioner some.

put a mark on the crank pulley. Then turn the crank two full turns. The engine should turn freely.
If the spark plugs are installed you will be fighting engine compression. That's ok.

Next install all the other things like the shorter belt, belt tensioner, etc.

Start the engine when you are done.

Warning. It will sound like something is very wrong, and that it will explode. That's normal. The sound will go away once oil goes into the tensioner.

Congratulations, newbee.. The water pump is one of the more challenging and scary project's most of us will need to deal with sooner or later.

 

Thanks for the response JvG. The thing is I already rotated the crank and sealed it all up. The battery was dead so I had my friend jump it and it wouldn't turn over. I cranked it for maybe 30 seconds and it only fired once or twice. He said that I must have messed up the timing. (The AC compressor was seized at this time and I didn't realize it)

So I started tearing the valve covers off, I took off the belts again and this is when I realized the AC was seized. So now I'm just rethinking the whole thing before I dig into the timing cover. It's really just a money issue of having to replace all the seals inside, I don't mind learning and doing the work even though it's 40f outside atm.

so I originally could have just paid 20$ for the shorter belt and got it running again. Now I'm 150$ into this and I want to make sure I'm not wasting more time and money digging into the timing if it might not be necessary.

 

I'm assuming that you are referring to the two covers on the housING covering the timing chsin.
which you removed to change the water pump.

Leave those alone.

just start the engine normally. Let it crank a whike.

you can do that even without the ac belt on.

again, it should start after a bit of cranking.

There will be horrible noises.

that's normal

 

The timing is likely off. I have a VQ out at my shop. Will post pics in the Morning. An engine has a Very Distinct sound when it is not timed correctly, hard to explain that over the internet. Verify all other work done first, triple check that everything is plugged in and that all the grounds are on the engine. I can only assume the engine was running correctly prior.

 

JvG: Thanks for your help. I've sealed up the waterpump and tensioner access covers on the timing cover already. I tried to start the car and it wouldn't fire. Now I've reset the crank to TDC on compression stroke, and I've removed the front valve cover. The lobes look to be in the same position as in this youtube video at about 11:32. In that youtube video he is set at TDC on compression and my lobes seem to be in the same position. Today I removed the upper intake manifold so that I can get to the rear valve cover tomorrow to check those lobes' positions too.


Reality Sucks: Thanks for responding, I think the timing might be off, I just want to be sure first before I dig in any further. The car was running a little rough before, but it might have been the resistance from the AC compressor going out? I'm going to try to look at the back cams tomorrow and see if the lobes look right. If they look right, do you think I should just seal it all back up and try to start it again with the belt off? maybe check compression or spark before digging in to the timing? Maybe look at all the spark plugs and see if any were bent from timing being off and hitting the valves or sparkplugs or something?

 

original water pump in my 95 with 295,000 on it and working fine.

 

lol max ride 41, so was mine. It's in the trunk now.

So I found a russian video on youtube that again shows the cam positions when everything is set right at TDC. I turned on captions and auto-translated to english and it actually worked pretty good ....

I'm kinda throwin down all the info I can find in case someone else is searching for this info someday like I did. I'll add pics later when it's all opened up to confirm if my lobes are in the same positions.

Like here's a random bit of info...when changing the waterpump, the waterpump bolts have washers on them. I was super concerned about losing those washers into the timing cover as I was removing the bolts. It turns out though, that the washers are locked onto the threads of the bolts so the washers can't fall off. I didn't see that mentioned in any of the dozen or so guides I read/watched. It's also possible to do the waterpump without removing the engine mount, which is how I did it. Out of all the guides I watched, everyone removed the engine mount except one guy because his bolts were stuck on the mount.

also I've found out there's 2 tensioners available in the vq30de(I mean the main chain tensioner that's accessible through the access). The old style which the piston is horizontal, and matched to the corresponding old style tensioner guide that also has a matching vertical angle where the 2 meet. In the later 4th gens, this tensioner was changed and the new one has a slight downward angle to the piston and includes an internal o-ring, and the new guide also has a slight angle to accommodate this. The tensioner was changed to have that downward angle to hold oil better so that oil pressure builds up faster on cold starts and reduces chain rattle. I've read that the new style tensioner won't fit through the access cover, but I'm not sure about that(if you were switching to a new style one, the guide would have to be replaced anyways which can't be done through the access cover). I'm considering adding the new style tensioner and I would also need to replace the guide to the new style to accommodate it. I might do that if I open the TC cover. I've also seen that there's a gasket on the tensioner, but I'm not sure if that was added with the new style. It seems a lot of people might not realize that gasket is there.

**future edit: the tensioner gasket is nissan part# 13079-31U00 ~$10 and the gasket is shaped/designed to be used with the newer updated tensioner. Gasket is not made for the old tensioner, but might be able to be trimmed to fit.

part# 13091-31U26 is a set that includes both the new updated tensioner and the guide that it goes with. ~$50
the gasket listed above needs to be purchased separately to be used with this new tensioner and new guide.

old tensioner 13070-31U00 (or 13070-31U03 for old infiniti part?should be the same as old maximas)

new tensioner 13070-31U0A

old guide 13091-31U00 (or 13091-31U01 for old infiniti part?should be the same as old maximas)

new guide 13091-2Y001

new tensioner gasket - 13079-31U00

13091-31U26 <- new tensioner + guide. 2 piece kit (also needs gasket# 13079-31U00)

 

ok so I removed the exhaust manifold and rear valve cover.

I'll try to explain what I did. I figured if the crankshaft timing jumped a (one) tooth forward or back, then the timing of the lobes/camshafts should be off by + or - 17.1 degrees on the crankshaft. The crankshaft has 21 teeth. So if it was off by 1 tooth that would be a difference of 17.1 degrees because 21 teeth divided by 360 degrees = 17.1

So I drew up a little compass gauge and taped it to the crankshaft so that I could rotate it +/- 17.1 degrees from TDC:





I then took pics of what's listed as valve#2 in the fsm in the valve clearance section. this is the lobe that would be closest to the passenger headlight in the front valve cover area.

here's what I got for nose position on the lobes (I'm not saying this is the correct timing! this is just what I'm currently at!)

-17.1 degrees TDC:




here's what it looks like at TDC:




and here's +17.1 degrees past TDC:



It seems like I'm doing this kinda weird because I can't find anything online about people referencing lobe and nose positions to verify timing without opening up the timing cover. It seems like an easy way to verify timing though...I mean the cams gears are keyed so if the lobes are lined up right then the gears should be lined up with the dowels marks and nipple marks inside the timing cover right? I'm also thinking that maybe this could even be referenced through the oil cap if the crank is set to TDC on compression. From what I've read, it seems lie if the chain jumped a tooth then it would be on the main crank gear, but the 2 sets of uhh cams and valves would still be in time with each other, but not in time with the crank.. I dunno if that makes sense or if I explained it all correctly.

also here's a bonus 100% clogged egr tube. I read about this before I pulled the manifold and it's the first thing I checked:





anyone know if I can just verify valve clearance with a tool at this point and reference some numbers in the FSM?

or can anyone take similar pics of that same lobe position in a properly timed engine at TDC? plz plz plz. I'm trying to reference videos and pics online but it's tough seeing that exact position.


Thanks to anyone taking the time to read all my nonsense.

*It looks like the pic I posted that is -17.1 TDC is definitely not right. The lobe is very vertical in that pic, just slightly cocked to the right. I've referenced several pics and videos of the noses directions when the timing is set properly and in all of them that nose on that lobe is definitely not pointing vertically like that. It should be pointing slightly to the right. So either the TDC pic, or the +17 TDC is the proper alignment/timing. It's hard to tell in the videos and pics still. I also noticed the wrench grove on the camshaft looks level with the angle of the lobe, so tomorrow I'll measure that angle to get an accurate reading of the nose's direction. I dunno if the lobes are keyed into the camshafts though, guess I'll do some reading on how all that is aligned and put together.

 

small update. I removed the EGR tube. I followed this tutorial and hacked the rear bolt (rear in terms of closer to rear of car)to be able to slip a wrench over the bolt. I could only then turn it 1/8 turn at a time and it took a bit. I sprayed liquid wrench on last night and today before I removed it. It wasn't too bad once I got that bolt hacked with a hacksaw blade. There are 2 gaskets on either side of the EGR tube also.

The bottom part of the EGR tube wasn't too bad:




I also ordered a cheap 10$ usb inspection cam and I plan on looking through the tensioner access port on the timing cover to see if my timing is off.

In removing all this stuff, a lot of rubber tubes have cracked and need replacing. Can I just use bulk tube cut to order from the auto store to replace it all? I know it has to be the right spec, but are most all hoses replaceable like that? Are there any specific rubber hoses that need to be oem or molded to a specific shape or anything?

 

Hi. update again.

I looked at some more videos and was able to find a russian video that shows a clear pic of the cams on valve 1. I paused the video and went and took the same angle pics of my valve 1 cam positions and compared the 2. I'm pretty sure now that my timing is correct after verifying with these pics.

Here's an edited pic of the russian cams, followed by some edited pics of my cams.

screengrab from russian youtube video titled "Установка распредвалов и цепи ГРМ ниссан максима А32" @ 1:00 :



below is -17 degrees TDC cam position in my car(looking over valve#1:



below is at TDC on compression stroke:



below is +17 degrees past TDC:




I'm really sorry my pics are at angles..they're normal on my PC


It was really hard to tell at first but then I noticed the obvious angle differences between the 2. If it's + or - 17 degrees, then there is an obviously angled lobe and an obviously horizontal lobe(this 17 degree angle is determined off the crankshaft, not the camshaft, and used to simulate the chain slipping on the main crankgear one tooth in either direction). But you can see in both TDC center pics, the lobes are both angled and pointing towards each other.

I hope this makes some sort of sense. I think I'm on the right track here, and I'm confident that my timing isn't off.

I'll get my inspection cam this week and peek through the tensioner access anyways and look at the left side at least. I actually want to remove the tensioner again and clean out the ports and maybe install the gasket behind it.


* I also figured out that it's easier to verify in pics by looking at the lines on the wrench grooves on the camshafts rather than the lobes themselves. I was actually able to just hold a ruler up to my PC screen and see if the edges of the wrench marks were lined up with certain lines on the cam bolt (?)bracket between the lobes. at TDC the edges of the wrench groove lined up almost perfectly with that edge of the brackets on valves 1 and 2.

**edit from the future: after opening my TC, the timing was correct. so the above pics reflect correct timing.

 

If the Timing is Not off, then Put Air down in that Cylinder and See if it leaks.. As it sits everything Should be Closed.. LeakDown Test It.. From your orig Post, Am I understanding that the AC Clutch locked up and Cut the Engine OFF..?

 

My AC compressor locked up and broke the belt. I thought it was the water pump, replaced that and tried to start it again with new belts and a still seized AC. Wouldn't start, I was told the timing was off.

Any easy way to do a leakdown test without buying a kit?

 

HI.

So I got everything back together with the shorter belt, it started right up. I couldn't get the chain rattle to go away from the tensioner, I rev'd it to 2000 rpms for a solid minute or 2.

I pulled the tensioner back out and cleaned it well and reinstalled it. I started it again today but I can't get the rattle to go away. I held it at 2500 rpms for a solid 3 minutes or so and the chain gets a little quieter, but as soon as I go back down under 1500 rpms or so the chain rattle gets loud again. I can also hear a missfire but that might have been there in the first place. I'm going to try swapping coils around to see if the misfire sound changes. Maybe it's just a coil?

but why can't I get the chain to go quiet? When the oil pressure rises that is supposed to bleed the air out of the tensioner piston right? and that's what keeps pressure in the tensioner and quiets the chain right? So is this an oil pressure problem?....would a misfire cause that?

thanks a lot for any help or suggestions. sorry I didn't do the leakdown test because I can't afford a kit right now.


**edit: I unplugged all the coils one at a time and didn't notice a difference in coil #3 and 4. The chain rattle is noisy as hell still. I swapped the coils in #1 and #3 and same issue, no noticeable difference when I unplug coil#3. I guess I'll try inspecting and swapping sparkplugs in #1 and #3 and perform the same unplug/plug test again on the coil in #3.

* I swapped some stuff around and still no change in #3 and #4. The timing could still be off I guess. I was reading another guy's posts about how when his timing slipped fixing the waterpump his #2 and3 cylinders were out, I guess maybe I skipped a tooth the other way and resulted in #3 and 4 being out? does that sound right?

 

can anyone give a me simple breakdown on what lower bolts/parts need to be removed to get the timing cover off? I got the upper brackets and the crank pulley off. I'm having a difficult time figuring out what ps pump bolt to remove and what I need to remove on the ac and alternator. I watched tons of videos and tutorials, but they all seem to skip over what parts of the ac/alternator bracket are in the way to remove the cover.

believe me I've searched. and searched, I'm just getting a little frustrated. Thanks.

 

hi. (question at the bottom)

So..just a few random bits of info on the timing cover..

I had to remove the bolt behind the power steering pump, it's the one that sticks out on the back the most...that was a pain to reach in there and get it. I had to remove the bottom bolt on the alternator, but to get to it I had to remove the 4 bolts on the AC and support it with a couple bricks. Once the AC was out of the way I could get to that bottom bolt on the alternator (you could probably reach that bolt without removing the AC if you had 2 feet of extensions and hit it from behind the Y pipe connection). The top bolt of the alternator goes into the back of the timing cover, but not the front, so I left that bolt in to support it so it could swivel out of the way. When I removed the engine mount, the engine slipped down and back toward the firewall about an inch. I was supporting the engine under the transmission area in anticipation of this, but I needed to move the jack and support under the replaced oil pan with a board to get the right lift angle so I could remove the 2 last 17mm bolts on the engine mount(lower engine mount bar thing still in place). With the engine down and back about an inch, I couldn't get the long bolt out with the last piece of engine mount that is on the TC. After boosting it up just a little I was able to get the bolt out with the bracket.

prying the TC - I tried the 2 notches at the top but it was still pretty tight at the bottom. I was able to use stacked double flat head screw drivers in the 2 bottom notches besides the crank. Once I popped the bottom out about 1/2" the top popped off pretty easy. Then there was that post bolt sticking through the cover still. I used a trick I read here with 2 nuts on the bolt to unscrew it. I used the nut from the powersteering pulley, which went on first...then I put a lug nut on. I locked the 2 together with 2 wrenches and was able to use the inner nut from the pully to loosen and unscrew the post bolt out. I don't know wtf I woulda done if I didn't read about that trick...probably marred the crap out of it with vice grips. Once it was almost out I had to remove both nuts while there was still room to get them off and unscrew the post by hand/pliers. Once this post was loose(with no nuts on it) I was able to drop the TC down juuusst enough that I could point the post bolt down and pull it out from underneath....that took some figuring, but it was easy once I figured it out.

It was set to TDC...annnd it looks like the timing is fine after all. Everything was lined up properly. I'll triple check tomorrow, but this should mean the pics above of the cams are in correct timing if anyone want to reference them. I'll go back and edit that info in once I'm 100%, I'll also try to add pics of the front set of cams too since those are easier to access and would be necessary to check timing on both cams if someone wanted to use this method. I have a new tensioner, tensioner gasket and guide on the way. next steps are to replace those and seal it all up. then figure out wtf is wrong with 3 and 4. I think I'll figure out how to compression test that point.


Question:
I saw some small orange plastic bits in the oilpan, but the guides look fine. Could these plastic bits be from the pintle caps on the fuel injectors? are those orange too(or red?)? thanks

 

My pintle caps were orange-ish/tan in color.

 

and Would Not and Just could not have Would up in the Oil pan... The Timing Tensioner guide (side rails) can break off, and fall in the pan. Are the Secondary Tensioners intact... I would have done a Leak down First. How were the Compression Numbers..?

 

Thanks The Wizard

Reality sucks: Ok I see. I guess they go elsewhere when they break. I have alot to learn still
I don't have the money or equipment right now to do a leakdown test. That's next up on priorities though as soon as I get money to buy a kit.

So I found the culprit of the crazy loud chain rattle. This is a pic of the upper 'right'(?) corner on the secondary chain.




Upon closer inspection of the secondary tensioners, I saw this. So that's where the crazy loud chain rattle was coming from! It sounded like it was coming from that area of the TC as well when it was running but I passed it off as the main tensioner. The secondary right chain was pushing/rubbing against the top of the rear TC.

So...I guess it got jammed into extended position or something?.. the tensioner was pressurized with oil and was overextended even more than the pic showed. Is this just how they fail? I assumed it would just loosen and the chain would slap around.

So I guess I need a new secondary tensioner. I'll go pull it out and inspect it before anything else.

thanks a ton for any help....or just company. I get lonely solo searching all the time. lol

 

so I pulled the valve cover, that lil secondary cover, the gear, and pulled that tensioner. I don't know exactly what I'm looking at but it seems ok. No broken plastics, moves freely.

It kinda seems like the little chain is stretched and maybe that's the issue? cuz I don't see how replacing that tensioner would solve this problem of all this extra slack in the little chain.