4th Gen Variable Intake (NA) Dyno Results!
04-23-2002, 07:12 PM
#1
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4th Gen Variable Intake (NA) Dyno Results!
First Run is in Red. This is with the VI turned off.
2nd Run is in Blue, and set at 5000 RPMs, which we found to be the best result.
2nd Run is in Blue, and set at 5000 RPMs, which we found to be the best result.
04-23-2002, 07:30 PM
#4
Ian do you have the datafiles for the dynojet viewer now as well? It's a lot easier to look at the graph when the scales are the same and you can view one or both graphs as you choose.
-hype
-hype
04-23-2002, 07:31 PM
#7
Holy cow !! It does work !!! I wanna get this instead of NOS!!
but, I don't understand why the blue line has higher power than the redline from the beginning. Shouldnt it show higher power only after 5k, since the valve settings were same for both runs before 5k?
04-23-2002, 07:35 PM
#10
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Originally posted by xHypex
Ian do you have the datafiles for the dynojet viewer now as well? It's a lot easier to look at the graph when the scales are the same and you can view one or both graphs as you choose.
-hype
Ian do you have the datafiles for the dynojet viewer now as well? It's a lot easier to look at the graph when the scales are the same and you can view one or both graphs as you choose.
-hype
Maybe Alex from Elite Motorsports can explain? I'm not sure I'm doing it right. Maybe I created the graphs wrong.
IanS
04-23-2002, 07:36 PM
#11
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Re: Holy cow !! It does work !!! I wanna get this instead of NOS!!
Originally posted by hokiemax
but, I don't understand why the blue line has higher power than the redline from the beginning. Shouldnt it show higher power only after 5k, since the valve settings were same for both runs before 5k?
but, I don't understand why the blue line has higher power than the redline from the beginning. Shouldnt it show higher power only after 5k, since the valve settings were same for both runs before 5k?
Once again, Alex would probably know....hopefully he'll see this thread.
By the way, the "cuts" in the lines later on the graph are just from the printer.
IanS
04-23-2002, 07:39 PM
#13
Would you mind sending them to me Ian? If you look at the graph the 2 upper curves are the torque curve. You say that the blue graph is with the VI open the whole time, but if this is the case the VI made more power open at 4k than the VI closed 
Both torque curves drop around 4800, but the blue is ALWAYS on top. It looks like the VI being open at 4k-redline shows more torque than the VI closed the whole time.
-hype
Both torque curves drop around 4800, but the blue is ALWAYS on top. It looks like the VI being open at 4k-redline shows more torque than the VI closed the whole time.-hype
04-23-2002, 07:43 PM
#14
Originally posted by Craig Mack
I don't know....but to me $500 for only a 7.5HP increase to the wheels isn't worth it..
I don't know....but to me $500 for only a 7.5HP increase to the wheels isn't worth it..
-hype
04-23-2002, 07:43 PM
#15
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Originally posted by xHypex
Would you mind sending them to me Ian? If you look at the graph the 2 upper curves are the torque curve. You say that the blue graph is with the VI open the whole time, but if this is the case the VI made more power open at 4k than the VI closed Both torque curves drop around 4800, but the blue is ALWAYS on top. It looks like the VI being open at 4k-redline shows more torque than the VI closed the whole time.
-hype
Would you mind sending them to me Ian? If you look at the graph the 2 upper curves are the torque curve. You say that the blue graph is with the VI open the whole time, but if this is the case the VI made more power open at 4k than the VI closed
Both torque curves drop around 4800, but the blue is ALWAYS on top. It looks like the VI being open at 4k-redline shows more torque than the VI closed the whole time.-hype
The VI was CLOSED the whole time on the Red Run, open at 5000 RPMs on the Blue lines.
And sure, I'll send them to you. Maybe you can figure out why they're different from what was printed....I'm sure I've got something wrong when setting up the graph.
IanS
04-23-2002, 07:45 PM
#17
Re: Holy cow !! It does work !!! I wanna get this instead of NOS!!
That's what I was thinking. From the graph it looks like you should just leave the VI ON all the way from 4000 rpms on up. Or maybe even lower, if the graph could show it.
Also, is it just me, or does the rpm range look kindof narrow?? I figured the dyno chart would cover the range from 2000-6500 rpm.
FYI, don't mind me for being so critical. I still really appreciate everything you've done, Ian. Great stuff
DW
Also, is it just me, or does the rpm range look kindof narrow?? I figured the dyno chart would cover the range from 2000-6500 rpm.
FYI, don't mind me for being so critical. I still really appreciate everything you've done, Ian. Great stuff
DW
Originally posted by hokiemax
but, I don't understand why the blue line has higher power than the redline from the beginning. Shouldnt it show higher power only after 5k, since the valve settings were same for both runs before 5k?
but, I don't understand why the blue line has higher power than the redline from the beginning. Shouldnt it show higher power only after 5k, since the valve settings were same for both runs before 5k?
04-23-2002, 07:46 PM
#18
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Originally posted by Kashoggio
well so whats the hp increase?
well so whats the hp increase?
It's all about the curve. Not what the Max Horsepower is. That's negligable. Even a Y-pipe, if you look at Max Horsepower, only shows 2-3hp gain. But at high RPMs, it shows up to 12-15.
Disclaimer:
(Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident I'm not)
IanS
04-23-2002, 07:48 PM
#19
DW the reason it starts so high is because it's hard to get the automatics from downshifting. With a 5spd you can just leave it in gear and go The dyno would probably have been more helpful if there was a run with the VI open the whole time and the VI closed the whole time. Then you would know to switch over when you started losing torque from the long runners. The strange thing to me is that if the VI only opened at 5k why is the blue torque curve higher than the red one when the VI is closed on both runs at that point on the graph
-hype
The dyno would probably have been more helpful if there was a run with the VI open the whole time and the VI closed the whole time. Then you would know to switch over when you started losing torque from the long runners. The strange thing to me is that if the VI only opened at 5k why is the blue torque curve higher than the red one when the VI is closed on both runs at that point on the graph -hype
04-23-2002, 07:59 PM
#21
Also, it's about the area under the curve. The greater the area, the more wide ranging power there is. The VI increases that area substantially. This mod is da bomb 
XHypex, thnx for the explanation about the autos on the dyno.
DW
XHypex, thnx for the explanation about the autos on the dyno.
DW
Originally posted by iansw
Up to 23 horsepower at 6200 RPMs.
It's all about the curve. Not what the Max Horsepower is. That's negligable. Even a Y-pipe, if you look at Max Horsepower, only shows 2-3hp gain. But at high RPMs, it shows up to 12-15.
Disclaimer:
(Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident I'm not)
IanS
Up to 23 horsepower at 6200 RPMs.
It's all about the curve. Not what the Max Horsepower is. That's negligable. Even a Y-pipe, if you look at Max Horsepower, only shows 2-3hp gain. But at high RPMs, it shows up to 12-15.
Disclaimer:
(Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident I'm not)
IanS
04-23-2002, 08:02 PM
#22
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OK...
The Dyno was printed by the guy at the shop, and he knows better than I, but i still don't know how he got the numbers he did. I'm sure there's good reason, but this next pic is of the raw data for the entire Dyno from 0 MPH. You'll see big dips in the Dyno, these are gear shifts, and I'm not sure what that means in relation to RPM's, but that's just how it looks.
Because I don't really understand why the first graph came out with those numbers, I am posting this. Maybe someone can explain.
Also, in this new graph, it is in relation to speed, to show the gear shifts and what the HP and TQ are right before the shifts.
IanS
The Dyno was printed by the guy at the shop, and he knows better than I, but i still don't know how he got the numbers he did. I'm sure there's good reason, but this next pic is of the raw data for the entire Dyno from 0 MPH. You'll see big dips in the Dyno, these are gear shifts, and I'm not sure what that means in relation to RPM's, but that's just how it looks.
Because I don't really understand why the first graph came out with those numbers, I am posting this. Maybe someone can explain.
Also, in this new graph, it is in relation to speed, to show the gear shifts and what the HP and TQ are right before the shifts.
IanS
04-23-2002, 09:04 PM
#25
Originally posted by iansw
OK...
The Dyno was printed by the guy at the shop, and he knows better than I, but i still don't know how he got the numbers he did. I'm sure there's good reason, but this next pic is of the raw data for the entire Dyno from 0 MPH. You'll see big dips in the Dyno, these are gear shifts, and I'm not sure what that means in relation to RPM's, but that's just how it looks.
Because I don't really understand why the first graph came out with those numbers, I am posting this. Maybe someone can explain.
Also, in this new graph, it is in relation to speed, to show the gear shifts and what the HP and TQ are right before the shifts.
IanS
OK...
The Dyno was printed by the guy at the shop, and he knows better than I, but i still don't know how he got the numbers he did. I'm sure there's good reason, but this next pic is of the raw data for the entire Dyno from 0 MPH. You'll see big dips in the Dyno, these are gear shifts, and I'm not sure what that means in relation to RPM's, but that's just how it looks.
Because I don't really understand why the first graph came out with those numbers, I am posting this. Maybe someone can explain.
Also, in this new graph, it is in relation to speed, to show the gear shifts and what the HP and TQ are right before the shifts.
IanS
What's up with the torque? 414 ft-lbs seems a little odd. . .
04-23-2002, 09:21 PM
#26
Not DAVEB the parts guy
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Man, I seriously wish that their dyno wasn't such a peice of crap. This CLEARLY points out that all machines read differently, some worse than others. Not only does this shop have crap equipment, they didn't correct your curves to show a smoother plot. From what I can tell, peak power with the butterflies occurs at 5200rpms (which is about right for a auto) and peak power with butterflies open occurs at 6000rpms with power holding on quite bit longer. The problem is these numbers are so low compared to other 4th gen VQs, it's hard to gauge the honest gains.
The good news to me is that Ian is making 145fwtq at 6000rpms which is what I'm making in my 5 speed with a y-pipe, UDP, B-pipe, and intake. Seeing that Ian is making about 15% less overall power on this crappy dyno than other 4th gen VQs, it looks to me like this manifold is indeed working. 145 X 1.15 = ~167fwtq is what a better dyno would most likely show which is a lot better than my relatively strong running 5 speed. The peak gains are relatively low (8 fwhp), but I'd bet they would be closer to 12fwhp on another dyno. We could possibly be looking at 15fwhp with the 5 speed. The biggest news is the fact that the power honestly holds on till 6000rpms. This is huge IMO. On a 5 speed 4th gen, the optimal shifts would look like this:
1-2 6500
2-3 6500
3-4 6200
More than likely you will not have to shift to 4th in the 1/4 mile therefore dropping .1-.2 seconds alone just because you can hold to the gears longer and forego the 3-4 shift. This mod might be good for .3-.4 drop in ET
Dave
The good news to me is that Ian is making 145fwtq at 6000rpms which is what I'm making in my 5 speed with a y-pipe, UDP, B-pipe, and intake. Seeing that Ian is making about 15% less overall power on this crappy dyno than other 4th gen VQs, it looks to me like this manifold is indeed working. 145 X 1.15 = ~167fwtq is what a better dyno would most likely show which is a lot better than my relatively strong running 5 speed. The peak gains are relatively low (8 fwhp), but I'd bet they would be closer to 12fwhp on another dyno. We could possibly be looking at 15fwhp with the 5 speed. The biggest news is the fact that the power honestly holds on till 6000rpms. This is huge IMO. On a 5 speed 4th gen, the optimal shifts would look like this:
1-2 6500
2-3 6500
3-4 6200
More than likely you will not have to shift to 4th in the 1/4 mile therefore dropping .1-.2 seconds alone just because you can hold to the gears longer and forego the 3-4 shift. This mod might be good for .3-.4 drop in ET
Dave
04-23-2002, 09:36 PM
#27
Dave I agree that the dyno is off, but it's all we have to work with right now :/ If we got a 5spd dynoing we could get more consistant results as well. If you look at the baseline runs 1 and 3 you'll see that even they are off somewhat.
Ian let me see his dyno files so I split them up and put together a spreadsheet. The peak hp gain was 6.62hp, the average hp gain between 5k-6300 was 11.76hp with a max gain of 23.30hp@6300 (this was the highest reading I had for all of the runs). The peak hp also shifted up from ~5100 to 5900 so that's good I'm sure some of you guys can do better statistical analysis than I so here's some more data to work with.
http://www.vanillaice.com/webmasters/hype/iansw/ian.htm
-hype
Ian let me see his dyno files so I split them up and put together a spreadsheet. The peak hp gain was 6.62hp, the average hp gain between 5k-6300 was 11.76hp with a max gain of 23.30hp@6300 (this was the highest reading I had for all of the runs). The peak hp also shifted up from ~5100 to 5900 so that's good
I'm sure some of you guys can do better statistical analysis than I so here's some more data to work with.http://www.vanillaice.com/webmasters/hype/iansw/ian.htm
-hype
04-23-2002, 09:43 PM
#29
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Posts: 792
Impressive!
All I can say is wow. Seeing the dramatic gains up top where the US Max runs outta steam. One thing I noticed from you picture as well, is that you better make sure you change out those plugs before you put the manifold on! Looks like the new manifold blocks access to the spark plugs. I think these numbers are especially impressive when you factor in that this is an automatic with the torque converter sucking up some of the juice. I also think that dyno to dyno differences can be great, but back to back runs with positive gain definitely means there is an improvement, and a huge one at that.
Can you give us some driving impressions and seat of the pants feelings on how the car drives now?
BTW, if you have the Security and Convience Package on the GXE, I don't think it should have a governor/limiter.
-V
... and if you don't mind me asking, what was the final $$$ for everything? Thanks!
Can you give us some driving impressions and seat of the pants feelings on how the car drives now?
BTW, if you have the Security and Convience Package on the GXE, I don't think it should have a governor/limiter.
-V
... and if you don't mind me asking, what was the final $$$ for everything? Thanks!
04-23-2002, 11:03 PM
#32
I hate to be a cynic... but what is up with your stock run. Power falling off at 5000 rpm? I want this to work, I really do, but seeing the anomalous nature of your dyno plots, I'm not convinced yet. Disregarding your "after" run, I'd say your car has a problem. Your power should not be falling off right at 5000 rpms. I need to see more dyno evidence, and then I'm in for sure.
04-24-2002, 12:47 AM
#33
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Originally posted by Nealoc187
I hate to be a cynic... but what is up with your stock run. Power falling off at 5000 rpm? I want this to work, I really do, but seeing the anomalous nature of your dyno plots, I'm not convinced yet. Disregarding your "after" run, I'd say your car has a problem. Your power should not be falling off right at 5000 rpms. I need to see more dyno evidence, and then I'm in for sure.
I hate to be a cynic... but what is up with your stock run. Power falling off at 5000 rpm? I want this to work, I really do, but seeing the anomalous nature of your dyno plots, I'm not convinced yet. Disregarding your "after" run, I'd say your car has a problem. Your power should not be falling off right at 5000 rpms. I need to see more dyno evidence, and then I'm in for sure.
Unless they're S/C'ed or Turboed.
Someone back me up on this.
Also, in reply to previous posts:
1) I don't think their Dyno is crap, just different somewhat.
the results in the 2nd graph aren't smoothed out because It was from raw data, and I made that graph.
The high torque seems to happen in first gear on all the Dynos. I don't get it.
2)The Butt Dyno tells me it's ALOT more than the dyno graph read. But butt Dynos are obviously inaccurate.
3) Driving Impressions and "Problem with my car":
Tonight ebmorgan (1996 I30 that has always seemed to always match me in races (from a roll or a stop)) and I went out to the freeway. We lined up with each other, slowed down to 50, and floored it.
I thought he messed up and didn't hit the gas right. So I slowed down again and matched up and floored it.
We pulled over, and he said "Dude, I WAS racing you. I had it pegged!" I don't know why, but I left him at a standstill. I was gaining 1/4 car length per second on him. I know this makes no sense, but it happened.
This tells me 2 things:
1)The VI Works, and works extremely well
2)Theres nothing wrong with my car.
4)All Spark Plugs are 100% accessible. (see link)
www.cyberhub.net/intake/installed/plugs.jpg
IanS
IanS
04-24-2002, 01:43 AM
#36
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OK. I've been thinking.
i am running a little rich according to the graphs.
One thing this may be from is that I just reset the computer the day before doing the Dyno.
I checked the ECU today, and no Knock Sensor code or anything else.
I am going to drive it around for 2 weeks, and then I'll Dyno again.
Maybe the computer needs time to "learn" the Intake.
Otherwise, you guys are the experts. Tell me what I can check to make sure the car is in top shape. Plugs are less than 5k old (NGK Platinums) Fuel Filter is 5k old, tranny fluid is 5k old and Redline Synthetic. Oil is Mobil 1 Synthetic.
So why am I running rich? Why are my Dyno numbers less than comparable vehicles?
Could it just be my big 18" TSW's?!?
Thanks,
IanS
i am running a little rich according to the graphs.
One thing this may be from is that I just reset the computer the day before doing the Dyno.
I checked the ECU today, and no Knock Sensor code or anything else.
I am going to drive it around for 2 weeks, and then I'll Dyno again.
Maybe the computer needs time to "learn" the Intake.
Otherwise, you guys are the experts. Tell me what I can check to make sure the car is in top shape. Plugs are less than 5k old (NGK Platinums) Fuel Filter is 5k old, tranny fluid is 5k old and Redline Synthetic. Oil is Mobil 1 Synthetic.
So why am I running rich? Why are my Dyno numbers less than comparable vehicles?
Could it just be my big 18" TSW's?!?
Thanks,
IanS
04-24-2002, 03:52 AM
#37
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Posts: 106
Question
Originally posted by iansw
OK. I've been thinking.
i am running a little rich according to the graphs.
One thing this may be from is that I just reset the computer the day before doing the Dyno.
I checked the ECU today, and no Knock Sensor code or anything else.
I am going to drive it around for 2 weeks, and then I'll Dyno again.
Maybe the computer needs time to "learn" the Intake.
Otherwise, you guys are the experts. Tell me what I can check to make sure the car is in top shape. Plugs are less than 5k old (NGK Platinums) Fuel Filter is 5k old, tranny fluid is 5k old and Redline Synthetic. Oil is Mobil 1 Synthetic.
So why am I running rich? Why are my Dyno numbers less than comparable vehicles?
Could it just be my big 18" TSW's?!?
Thanks,
IanS
OK. I've been thinking.
i am running a little rich according to the graphs.
One thing this may be from is that I just reset the computer the day before doing the Dyno.
I checked the ECU today, and no Knock Sensor code or anything else.
I am going to drive it around for 2 weeks, and then I'll Dyno again.
Maybe the computer needs time to "learn" the Intake.
Otherwise, you guys are the experts. Tell me what I can check to make sure the car is in top shape. Plugs are less than 5k old (NGK Platinums) Fuel Filter is 5k old, tranny fluid is 5k old and Redline Synthetic. Oil is Mobil 1 Synthetic.
So why am I running rich? Why are my Dyno numbers less than comparable vehicles?
Could it just be my big 18" TSW's?!?
Thanks,
IanS
04-24-2002, 05:57 AM
#38
Originally posted by ZWW21
youd get a whole lot more people to buy this if they didnt have to wait 6-8 weeks to get it. It would suck to pay $570 and then not get anything for it for 6-8 weeks. Just my opinion though.
youd get a whole lot more people to buy this if they didnt have to wait 6-8 weeks to get it. It would suck to pay $570 and then not get anything for it for 6-8 weeks. Just my opinion though.
04-24-2002, 06:25 AM
#40
How do you think this will react with the JWT ECU?
Originally posted by Y2KevSE
Too bad hp doesn't increase all the way until redline. The improvement looks significant. Congrats!
You'll get a lot more power if you lean out the air fuel mixture.
Too bad hp doesn't increase all the way until redline. The improvement looks significant. Congrats!
You'll get a lot more power if you lean out the air fuel mixture.