ms.thicknes

I was doing some research CAI's and I found the term "hydrolock" which of course immediatly scared the bejesus out of me cause I wanted in on the injen cai gd

I was all gung ho and set to buy a CAI (instead of just my intake) till I read that.....in all the threads that have been posted about popchargers, intakes and CAI's -- that was my first introduction to the term "hydrolock"

this is of course a big as$ concern for me b/c I'm in Miami...and June through November is hurricane season. It rains A LOT and it floods A LOT (especially the dang parking lot where I work at....and I would hate to have it flood and need to leave the car in the damn water for fear of starting it up and saturating the filter with the standing floodwater...thereby causing hydrolock -- sniff sniff..bye bye Maxima)

should I just forget the injen cai which doesnt have a bypass valve and invest in the franken midpipe????

i like the injen.....its shiny and women do like shiny things

will the midpipe statisfy my shiny cravings??? I have this chome theme going on (if you want to call it that)

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

how far up does the water go? up to the bottom of your bumper? if not, then you have nothing to be afraid of because that's where the filter will reside.
If it does go higher than the bottom of your bumper, why would you wanna open your doors anyways? You're gonna get a buncha water in there and a big ol headache. If water gets into your cabin, you're screwed anyways, so who cares about the cai getting wet.
Get the cai and don't worry about the bypass valve. The bypass valve can potentially lower the efficiency of the CAI. Get the CAI and when it's rain season (almost all the time where you live?) then take the lower pipe out and put the filter in the engine bay (just like a pop-charger). If you're affraid of flash flooding, get a stillen or jwt pop-charger.
basically, you'll never get hydrolock unless you're an idiot and drive in 1" deep water, which you shouldn't be doing anyways.
Jae

CBass69187

iTrader: (4)

Have you considered an AEM bypass valve? You can find on here: http://coximport.com/hot_sheet.html

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

don't forget to search the internet before posting questions:
http://www.importracer.net/articles/hydrolock.html
http://www.timwright.co.uk/japmobile...ews/iceman.asp
http://www.geocities.com/n_dahi/cai/cai.htm
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4...airboxmod.html

this person got hydrolock cuz he modified something that wasn't supposed to be changed (like i said...idiot user error)
http://www.geocities.com/Racing_Talo...G/1G_Root.html
http://www.geocities.com/itchyc.geo/mycivic.html
http://members.rogers.com/radiomp3/honda.htm
http://howto.henryvo.com/intake.html

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

like i said, not necessary. if you get the bypass valve, do yourself a favor and get a stillen or jwt intake.
Jae

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Well, Jae, you're going to have to explain that to me. Precisely how can a bypass valve lower the efficiency of a CAI?

CBass69187

iTrader: (4)

This does not take in air under normal driving conditions so it will still be a true cai

ms.thicknes

(see above for clarification)




.....I did the research already which i why i came back to the emerald castle to see the damn wizard

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

I'm very conservative when it comes to the potential for hydrolock, Annette. My wife hydrolocked a VW Rabbit we used to own and you should have seen the bent rods that came out of the engine. I'm surprised the block survived the experience.

I wouldn't run a true CAI without a bypass valve and I live in Los Angeles!

My advice? Either get an Injen and install an AEM Air Bypass Valve or buy the Frankencar. And don't worry about a bypass valve reducing the efficiency of a CAI. That's simply not going to happen.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

ThurzNite, i think you meant 1' not 1"

As far as hydrolocking goes, when it rains... and when it rains hard the chances of your intake ingesting a lot of water is remote. The only time the intake and pressure from the engine can breath in enough water to cause hydrolock is if the intake itself is submerged in water.

At which point, you have more things to worry about than just hydrolock.

2K2DEMAX

iTrader: (1)

Well, ms. "T", I'm a Floridian like yourself and I think you are justified in being circumspect of this potentially damaging issue. Remember the heavy rains we got about 4 weeks ago, well.......this is what it did to me.

My old engine

My 8000 miles old replacement engine

Granted, I am lowered with Eibachs, which did increase the possibility of this happening to me but you never know exactly how deep a "puddle" is, especially if you're caught driving on an unfamiliar road in Florida during a sudden downpour.

So, my advice to you is, don't do it during our rainy season - better to be safe than to be sorry.

I may put the CAI back on November, when it hardly ever drizzles down here.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Now THAT's what I call a sobering post! You've made your point, 2K2DEMAX. I'm just sorry it had to come at such a big expense.

ms.thicknes

yep yep yep..my maxspeeds will be installed tomorrow and that is another good reason not to get a cai

and hydrolock from a CAI sounds like one problem that nissan definatly not cover under warranty LOL (which isnt that funny)

ms.thicknes

as every woman knows.....an inch can make a heck of a difference

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

user error. If you dunno what you're getting into, don't go that way. I agree that it's difficult to judge the depth of water..and that's when you gotta take it easy, go slow to see how deep it's getting, and back out when it the water line gets to your rims. AEM says that the valve will work when the filter's submerged in water...that's like 1' of water. Why would anybody do that anyways? That's roughly to your axles, and i'm sure many parts on the underside of a maxima will not like water to that degree.

the lower efficiency arrises from the shape of the bypass valve that ruins the flow of air.

have fun cutting your cai...the one you paid big bucks for.

beware when cleaning your engine compartment too.

SCC's article made it clear: you'd hafta be lame to submerge your filter...so just don't do it. 2nd point is, in order for the bypass valve to work, you need to create vacuum. Enuf vacuum needed to open the valve's flaps can only be created when you're WOT...who's dumb enuf to WOT in deep water? You're probably gonna hydroplane too. When the testing continued, they allowed water to enter their cai (done by WOT and submergine filter), then lifted the filter w/water still in the piping...the bypass valve closed, allowing air to be drawn from the filter (creating what would look like boiling water). Wouldn't that scare the heck outta you? The bypass valve's not gonna save your engine if the tube were any shorter. (see link below). In addition, their tube was vertical, requiring more force to pull water up. Maxima's CAI is at an angle and much shorter than their special made test cai.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ar...h01_0401.shtml
http://www.hardracing.com/CARPARTS/AEM/AEMTEST.htm

Jae

Weasel

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear that! Damn... with the rain South Florida has been getting lately and the "surprises" that come up in a semi-blinding downpour here I wouldn't get a CAI. Stick with the midpipe.

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

smart move. no user error here.
Jae

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

That's quite a statement, ThurzNite. What evidence do you have to support it?

Quote:

have fun cutting your cai...the one you paid big bucks for.

Have fun replacing the rods in your engine.

Quote:

beware when cleaning your engine compartment too.

And the reason you can't tie a plastic bag around the air filter is ???

Quote:

SCC's article made it clear: you'd hafta be lame to submerge your filter...so just don't do it. 2nd point is, in order for the bypass valve to work, you need to create vacuum. Enuf vacuum needed to open the valve's flaps can only be created when you're WOT...who's dumb enuf to WOT in deep water?

Now there you've got me. My wife hydrolocked a VW Rabbit of ours some years ago and she definitely wasn't at WOT at the time. How do you suppose that happened?

Quote:

You're probably gonna hydroplane too. When the testing continued, they allowed water to enter their cai (done by WOT and submergine filter), then lifted the filter w/water still in the piping...the bypass valve closed, allowing air to be drawn from the filter (creating what would look like boiling water). Wouldn't that scare the heck outta you?

What would scare the hell out of me much more that that would be to watch a snorkle full of water entering the throttle body.

Quote:

The bypass valve's not gonna save your engine if the tube were any shorter. (see link below). In addition, their tube was vertical, requiring more force to pull water up. Maxima's CAI is at an angle and much shorter than their special made test cai.

I honestly don't believe that makes much of a difference. What evidence do you have to support your statement?

LeftCoast

Hydrolock, shmydrolock...

Do you guys really think the engine vaccum is strong enough to suck water UP through the entire length of the Injen intake?

Ever tried to suck gas out of your gas tank with the sucking end of the hose above the other end?

Simple physics gentlemen....

-Left

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

I'm not with you on that one, ThurzNite. If the filter is submerged, the engine at idle would likely create enough pressure to blow the valve on the bypass open. It isn't going to take a lot of pressure to blow that valve open...the pressure will build quickly with the throttle opened at all trying to suck air.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

I think you forgot the basic notion that an automobile engine is a huge air pump, LeftCoast. You might be surprised at just how hard it draws water into the intake when there's no air available. And I certainly hope you never have to find out the hard way.

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

Which is exactly why I disagree with ThurzNite about how wide the throttle must be open to blow the valve on the bypass. I think very little throttle is required.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, you are correct!

LeftCoast

Air pump being the keyword.

I tried to calculate how many PSI would be required to suck water a up the gigantic tube, but fluid dynamics is not my expertise. Still working on it.

In the meantime, here's my retort:

Anyone who believes gravity will suddenly fail, please feel free to purchase your bypass valve. I'm also selling a reinforced roof in case of meteor showers.

Personally, I trust gravity and the laws of physics. Water does not flow upward last time I checked. Thanks.

Nismo87SE

Even though I don't have a maxima my se-r with a CAI did get hydrolocked. However it was my fault though, I could have took of the coupler between the piping and MAF and saved my engine but I forgot. The water I went through was about 8-12in deep. Once I found out the crank wouldn't turn after I certain point I had to install another engine. Once I pulled the old engine I found 2in of water still in my intake plenum and cylinder #1 intake port 1 year later . The block doesn't seem damaged. My advice is if you really want a CAI and are afraid of hydrolock, move the battery to the trunk and sit the filter where the battery was. Otherwise use common sense, if you see water that is up to the bumpers on other cars don't go throught without taking off the tubing at the MAF.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Here's the article from SCC a while back about the test done on an NSX w/ the bypass valve installed.

Check it out

"Next, we had Concialdi do a third-gear dyno pull while we held the filter above the fish tank and dunked it randomly in, and out of, the water. This was intended to simulate... well, an absolute idiot trying desperately to destroy their engine. Dropping the filter in the water caused the water to rise in the pipe again, but again, nothing happened. Pulling the filter out of the water with the engine still pulling hard, however, caused something rather alarming to happen. When the filter was pulled out of the water, air immediately started going through the filter, even though there was still about a foot of water in the pipe. The trapped water frothed and thrashed about in a most alarming way, raising the eyebrows on even Concialdi's staid face, but he kept his foot down and still nothing happened."

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

1) I don't have to prove it. AEM did. Read their article.
2) I won't be replacing rods cuz it's very remote that a cai will suck water. Ask AEM how they came to that conclusion. I'm basing mine off 1st hand statistics. How many CAI owners are there and how many get hydrolocked? Of those who did, how many are attributed to user error?
3) Plastic bag is all good. I do it with various parts of my engine bay too.
4) I haven't had the chance to examine a rabbit yet. Can you point me to a site where I can learn more about it? Water coulda seeped in from somewhere else.
5) What scares me is someone who thinks their maxima can go through 1 foot of water.
6) Have you ever gone snorkling with a 50' garden hose? It's too long and your lungs can't work with that much weight. Try using a regular snorkle...much easier cuz the distance is shorter. How long is the vertical section of a Maxima cai? About 14"? How long is the vertical section of the test CAI built for the NSX?

Jae

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

agreed. but why would you be starting your car when you know your filter's wet?
I wonder what happens when water gets into your exhast? Assuming your filter's submerged (assming 1' of water) The exhaust would also likely to be submerged too. Interesting. I guess not too bad huh?
Jae

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

AEM believes that an NSX needs cai piping larger than 3" diameter. So think of it this way: You got a skinny coffee stirring straw vs a huge pearl/boba sucking straw. Your mouth can create awesome vaccum with the coffee straw, and this's like the NSX. But with the pearl/boba straw, you're gonna try a lil harder to suck liquid. Now imagine a soda can sized straw...You're not gonna be drinking anything cuz you can't create the vaccuum necessary to bring the fluid up. For a CAI to suck water, you gotta be WOT. Why would you WOT in 1' deep water?
Jae

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

?
Wasn't this posted earlier?
Jae

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

yeah... i just missed it. sorry

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

well, your link's from AEM...i couldn't find the direct link. good find.
Off to install Short throw shifter.
Jae

TimW

iTrader: (6)

ask Russ if you can hydrolock a maxima with a CAI... ask him about his big bent rod

I know someone here has a picutre of him holding his bent rod...

2K2DEMAX

iTrader: (1)

Weasel & y2kse, thanks. My insurance company covered it so it only costed me the deductible.

Thurznite:
Easy for you to sit there and say that. You have no idea what the road looked like or what the situation was. I can tell you that I would not knowingly drive through 1' foot of water. I simply got caught in a tragic situation. S**T happens.

BTW, just to let everyone know, my engine did not "die" immediately but rather two weeks after I got caught in the water. The day of the rain, the car simply stalled. I waited 30 seconds before I restarted it and continued to drive through. Maybe I shouldn't have restarted but I did. Hindsight is always 20/20. It actually drove fine after that up to the time of failure which, incidentally, happened while driving at 60mph on the expressway.

So, my diagnosis is that just enough water was ingested to cause the rod in the picture (cylinder 1, I believe) to bend slightly and eventually fail 2 weeks later.

I will simply chalk this one up to experience which, at 40, kinda reminds me that there's a lot to learn yet.

Nismo87SE

Wait a minute I thought that was with the stock intake on his 98. It goes to show that you don't need a CAI to hydrolock the engine, when the stock intake can do it