I have nothing to share lol. I just heard something from a secord party that was really none of my business. I pmed him to see why he had to bend his y pipe b/c I don't know myself. Matt

 

those are my pics and i dont seem to have ANY clearance problems. No clunks no dings..nothing.. DId you not take off the metal supports and thus had to bend the pipe?

I would hate to kill the mandrel bending...

 

In order to keep the metal support (which contrary to what anyones says, is there for a reason - i.e. under body support for seats), I had to bend the pipe upwards. The downward angle of the pipe, pulled the rest of the exhaust downward in the middle, thus pivoting and pressing my exhaust tips against my rear bumper. I've got a Cattman cat-back system that fit perfect before the y-pipe. After putting SLIGHT bends, it pulled everything up again and clearance was perfect.

Now - what are my experiences with this product??? Well, I've already told Dallas my dyno results, so I guess I can post it for all of you.

Pre Y-Pipe Mods & Numbers: WAI w/ Apexi, RT Cat, Cattman cat-back = 218hp/236tq

Next Dyno Mods & Numbers: WAI w/ Apexi, RT Cat, Cattman cat-back, WSP Y-pipe (before adding new bends for fittement) = 216hp/230tq

That's why I said had. I can't explain the results... if anyone can explain, or prove different, I'd love to hear it. I'm conviced the 1 and only necessary exhaust mod is the b-pipe.

Please keep this discussion going, I want to know what others find.

 

I find it weird how you somehow lost power when there is less piping to the WSP y pipe. What I mean is the stock has 3 90 bends while the wsp eliminates it to only one 90 bend. Were these dynos the same day or over a span of time at a different dyno. I will be dynoing in the near future and if I don't see results we will have a problem and I will be slightly ****ed off. Matt

 

It may be less piping, but ponder this - the relocation of the O2 sensor? Is it possible that throws something off? How about the possibility that the extra bends make both downpipes equal length (not sure about that one, but hey, gotta consider everything). I'm sure you'll see gains @ your dyno, as you've added the b-pipe. I thought that I'd at least stay at the same hp since the restriction is still the pre-cats. The rear pre-cat is less that 1-5/8", more like 1-1/2" ID, so a 2" pipe won't really do anything there.

These dyno's were 2 months apart, same dyno shop. We tried correcting back to the 1st dyno's conditions, as well as the 2nd dyno's conditions, as well as keeping them as they were - same results... the 2nd dyno was down some. I had put like 300 miles on the new pipe, and a total of about 1000 miles between the two dynos.

 

true the extra bends are to equal the length but in logic more bends causes more drag which causes less power correct. Something just doesn't seem right to me b/c emax and larry both saw great gains with the y pipe especially at redline. Matt

 

True - to an extent - Larry replaced his b-pipe (and pulled his air filter) too. Emax completely eliminated his pre-cats, and has a full cat-back also.

In Larry's case - I'd say a majority of his gains came from replacing the b-pipe alone, the y-pipe didn't do much.

In Emax's case, he was able to see gains that were common with the 2k-2k1 guys, as he did a full swap out.

Great discussion here...

Remi

 

ethan eliminated one precat which was the only difference. I think maybe something happened during your dyno scewing the results thats a maybe though. I doubt the b pipe gains 13 whp that seems a but much to me and like 17 tq after you subtract the gains he got from running without the air filter. Odd indeed could it happen yes but I wouldn't bet on it. Matt

 

I too think something is wrong. Thats why I'm hoping to see what you guys post for numbers. The next time I dyno I'll have a UDP installed, and I may or may not have the y-pipe back on, based on what you post for numbers.

FYI - the y-pipe with full cat-back wasn't much louder than the cat-back alone. It only changed the tone a bit, but after removing it, I didn't really notice a sound difference.

 

well after I get my replacement 01 MAF I will put my intake back on and go dyno the same week. DAVEB said they are on backorder and to check in a couple weeks though

 

I hate to sound like a dumbsh!t(too late), but I'm confused about which component produces the best bang for the buck. Has anyone taken a 2K2 or 2K3 with a stock exhaust and dyno'd the car before and after installing the Y-pipe only? Is the b-pipe supposed to give more gains than the Y-pipe, or is this why this discussion has become so interesting? I'm going to put my purchase on hold until we can come up with some concrete numbers.

 

How are you able to drive around without a working MAF?

 

I have got the 02 replaced but I don't want to install the intake again until i get a backup. Sorry for not clarifying that.

 

Great discussion guys By the way, didn't Emax also add a UDP when he added the Y pipe and then do a dyno.

The info about the sound level of the Y pipe and catback was very helpful. I was worried about that. Now if headers were added I wonder how loud it will be. By the way if the headers eliminated the pre-cats and that is the choke point for our exhaust, they should definitely add significant power over just a Y pipe. That is if the Y pipe even makes added power.

 

Historically a y-pipe was expected to yield the most gains (as far as an exhaust mod). But at this point, we've yet to determine whether the 2k2/2k3 like the y-pipe or b-pipe better.

 

I first lowered my forward brace with spacers but it still kept hitting my pipe so I finally removed it. I really don't see what these braces are for anyway. Maybe some engineer needed job security. In any case they are both gone.

 

same with mine

 

Guys, I think Remi has a good point here. The factory precats appear to be very restrictive. I just want to reiterate that my testing was with both Y & B pipes and I have no idea what hp increase would result from just a Y pipe. My dyno results were with both.

If anybody else dynoes with just a B pipe and catback to verify what Remi determined I would like to know too.

 

Matt - are you going to have a before and after dyno? If a few of us pitched in for costs, would you be willing to dyno without the b-pipe, then again with the b-pipe?

 

Man I already got it installed and really really don't want to take it off. I will though if I dyno any less than 215 whp. My engine has been pullin to 6500 without the intake when before the install it would shift around 6200 so I know I'm makin some power. If yall want to get the money together its $50 for three runs I would be willing to put the stock b pipe back on and dyno again a few days later. Matt

 

There is no way the b-pipe could be the major HP producer. I have the GReddy Evo and from every thing i've read, there is only about a 5hp gain at most. The Evo replaces the B-pipe with a mandrel bent 2.5 inch pipe. Has anyone dyno'd after a GReddy Evo install?

 

To be done right you need a base dyno i.e. bone stock or with an intake only. Then you have something to compair to. Next I would do the B-pipe and or cat back. Do the Y last and you'll know what each gave you.

I may be willing to chip in some cash. I'm in Atlanta he's in Charlotte 3-4hr drive. I'd be willing to throw in some labor to get it done quicker also.

 

On the 5th Gen there is a crush on either end of the B that is pretty restrictive. That and Larry's mod to the muffler or full catback should give a little more than 5 I would say 8-10. The 3.5 will take more advantage of it.

 

i know im OT a little, but there is a new mod for us, that is the headers/ypipe combo. its from stillen. as someone mentioned before that our stock headers are very restrictive because both our precats are NOT connected to the ypipe, but to the exhaust manifold. i don't know if im making any sense. but having changed the headers and the ypipe. im guessing that it will show gains. because im asumming that the aftermarket combo made it less restrictive.

 

I know there are to crushed bends but in logic there is no way the gains for a b pipe would be more than 6whp max. I looked back at emax dynos and before the y pipe he put down 214whp. Now give or take 3-4whp which can change from dyno to dyno but his mods for the 214 whp were Franken intake, Random tech. Cat, Greddy Evo cat-back exhaust. So we all no 200-204 is around what the stock 6 spd dynos. So the gains for the intake 6-8 which leaves 6-8whp left for a full cattback including strait through muffler. After y pipe and UDP he was at 229whp once again give or take 3-4whp. You be the judge and yes I know ethans y pipe gets rid of one precat but it also proves the point of the b pipe not gaining all the power from the y and b combo. Now if Stealin will hurry with these headers we will be in business b/c both precats will be gone Enjoy my novel

 

Ok then, using this formula against Larry Dyno's with the Warpspeed Y,B & muffler mod He gained 21whp in round numbers. So with 6-8whp for the intake(or no intake at all in his case) and 6-8whp for the catback that leaves 5-9whp for the Y. All +/- 3-4whp, I hope the minus doesn't come into play
10whp MAX for $225-299 is more than I'm willing to spend for a Y.

With Ethans UDP giving him 6-8whp that doesn't leave much for the 1 precat being removed. Lets see what happens when he gets the Stillen package.

 

8-10 whp peak but you pick up a lot at redline like over 15whp. take a look at larry's dynos before and after at redline.

 

I'm a little behind on the times with the Stillen header thingy... does anyone know who manufactures it? I doubt it's Stillen.

 

Being that I am/was about to purchase this upgrade, I am very interested in this thread. I know on previous gens, the Y-pipe has been one of the best performance gain mods out there. Is the exhaust system on the '02+ Max that much better than previous years?

WSP states 20+ hp gains estimated for this mod when using the B-pipe. From the info in this thread, it looks like the gains are less than 10hp. If that is the case, then this upgrade does not necessarily justify the $$ invested without a header. So, in general, is the assumption here that using the Y+B+free-flow cat will cost more, yet yeild only slightly better power gains than a Frankencar intake?

 

I'm not quite sure exactly how to answer, but I'll try. The intake is a must - no question about it. In my honest opinion (with a bit of experience to back it up), I'd wait for a header system. The Stillen setup (I just got off the phone with them), will yield big gains, however, you'll be soooo illegal with it. It eliminates the main cat too! If they, or someone, could build a header/y-pipe system that keeps the main cat, we'd be golden. That would be the mod to get instead of a y-pipe... but expect a big increase in noise levels with both pre-cats & main cat gone.

My 2 cents, we welcome yours.

 

Unfortunately, something as drastic as a header upgrade would not be a great thing for me since I still have to go through emissions testing which includes a visual inspection. Having to swap the header every year or so is not a viable option for me, and I'm sure others as well. I was hoping the Y-pipe may pass visual inspection, but if not, it's easier to "swap out". I was hoping to get good numbers from this mod instead of an intake which has been causing the MAF issues.

Is WSP aware of this? Just wondering what their take on this is at this time....

 

Man stillen needs to hurry up with this. I have no emissions to pass for SC

 

and there is no way to keep the main cat on....i DEFINITELY don't wanna lose that.
whatever happened to the car trying to look and sound classy. with pre and main cats gone, we might as well buy a civic.
that noise is really gonna be disgusting.

 

The y-pipe will not change anything for emissions, as all cats are still present.

Yes - Dallas has been made aware of my results, as well as Larry's. We need some more people to dyno theirs to prove mine wrong

Matt - I don't recall whether or not you said you'll have a before & after dyno - is this correct?

 

Me Matt?
If I can get the time to dyno the car, I will do a before and after. Of course, it depends on price/location/availability of a dyno here too. Since I have not ordered anything yet, I will be holding off on ordering the Y-pipe until this issue has a resolution. My timeframe is to have mods installed prior to the March track meet in KY. Since I kinda doubt this will be resolved in time to get a y-pipe in by that timeframe, I will probably go ahead with an intake and possibly UDP.

 

I will not have a before and after unless I don't see the expected gains of about 13-15whp. My mods are in my sig and for an auto I expect around 215-218whp and around 225tq. If I am far off from that i will be removing the y pipe and dynoing again. If the results aren't noticably less then I will be slightly ****ed at WSP for producing a pipe that doesn't yeild any gains...but I hope thats not the case. Matt

 

Auto - with the mods you've got, I'd set your expectations a bit higher, like 220-222ish. As I've mentioned before, if you need to do a second run, I'll pitch in.

 

Ok so, with no pre cats, no main cat, no O2 sensors... won't the Stillen headers throw the SES light?

 

above 220 would be nice still wish I had 2 more gears though

 

They would have to have a spot for the 02 sensors.