spirilis

iTrader: (2)

Curious as to what this is and why it's there, I did some research.

http://www.partsamerica.com/Auto101Ignition.asp

This site describes the condenser (actually a capacitor) as a necessary part of the ignition system. The condenser is wired into the primary ignition circuit. Its purpose is to provide an efficient ground for the high-voltage transient that occurs when primary voltage is cut from the ignition coil's primary winding. This allows the primary coil's magnetic field to collapse quickly, thus inducing the secondary voltage which produces the spark.
If the condenser were not there, the high-voltage spike produced by collapsing the primary voltage source would, in the case of an old distributor/breaker-point ignition system, cause an arc in the breaker points. The current has to go somewhere, after all.

In our Direct Ignition systems, a Power Transistor takes the place of "breaker points". This power transistor connects to a +12VDC power source, a conductor to the primary coil winding (relative ground), and a switched ground which is switched by the ECU. The +12VDC -> switched ground connection is the "switch" part of the transistor, i.e. when a small amount of current flows through there, it closes the circuit between +12VDC and the primary winding, allowing the primary winding magnetic field to build, then when the ECU shuts it off the circuit is cut. This +12VDC -> primary winding path through the transistor is the actual equivalent of a "breaker point".

If a condenser were to go bad, or develop a corroded/flaky connection, I would imagine the effects would be a high-voltage spike jumping between that path within the transistor. The result could be a blown power transistor (or a flaky one), and that would result in a failing ignition coil. This could be repaired by replacing the ignition coil, because when you replace the ignition coil, you're replacing its Power Transistor at the same time (since it's integrated inside the coil's housing).

But I wonder if 2K-2K1 cars may come with a flaky condenser/capacitor that could be causing some of these coil failures...?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Very very interesting theory. I think I understand most of it.

Anyways, the FSM only says to verify the resistance between terminals 1 and 2 is above 1M-ohm at 77*F.

I'll have a talk with one of my electrical gurus at work and see if he has anything to say about what happens when capacitors go bad/flaky. I mean if it's discharging too soon, that could definitely cause the coil to fire early, which would mimick advanced timing. Depending on how early, that could lead to detonation, ie pinging people get.

Sounds like a viable theory.

spirilis

iTrader: (2)

Hey that's a really good point... a capacitor that's leaking internally and allowing some primary charge to discharge would cause the preignition/pinging present with bad coils... the problem is. why would it go away when the coils are swapped?

What I was getting at is something more of a theory as to why the coils would blow so easily... and while I can't really see a power transistor or a metal coil winding just magically "breaking" after 40K mi, I can see an electrolytic capacitor going bad...

On a 2nd note, I seem to recall a problem with a lot of PC motherboards a couple years back (maybe it was around 2K-2K1) where a major supplier of capacitors was selling faulty capacitors to motherboard manufacturers... the short summary is that a lot of motherboards started going bad after a while due to leaky electrolytic capacitors. It's probably a stretch to associate that with this, though.
But I am curious as to what kind of capacitor they use for our ignition systems... the farad rating, the composition (electrolytic, tantalum, etc.) and so forth.

2000Base

i apologize if this isn't exactly related but i need an ignition coil condenser for my 2k GXE. i just got 6 new plugs and replaced 2 bad coil packs. My mechanic says I need that little part but I can't find it. Can anyone help??? PLEASE

Max_5gen

iTrader: (2)

I've never heard of that part going bad on maximas, that's why you can't find it. You can try dealer, shouldn't be that expensive. I doubt though you need to replace it. Instead, please make sure you've got NGK Platinum spark plugs, our cars are very picky to the type of spark plugs. For example, conventional copper plugs lead to intermittent misfire which is very puzzling if you don't know this - plugs look good, they just don't work .

BTW, the old theory in the previous messages is wrong and paints the opposite picture of what actually happens: power transistor is connected between ground and coil end and grounds the coil at the time of spark. Our coil packs go bad internally, one of the contacts of that circuit becomes intermittent so the correspondent cylinder starts missing. Power transistor usually doesn't go bad, it just gets disconnected. I replaced all 6 over 10 year period one by one, it's a common problem and the cause is known - low quality packs.

DennisMik

iTrader: (2)

A coil pack is an ignition coil by old terms. If there are condensors/capacitors, they are built into the coil pack.

The op did have his theory incorrect. A capacitor is not a grounding device, it is an electrical surge arrestor.

P. Samson

There is an ignition condenser/capacitor and it is in the ignition power supply circuit (ground). It is wrapped in mylar tape to the wiring bundle (raceway) that runs along/near the top of the front camshaft cover. Should have a min. resistance of 1M ohms according to the FSM. It is a do check item for a Gen.5 DTC 1320. There seems to be confusion between this condensor and the power transistor that each coil does have. They are not the same thing.

Max_5gen

iTrader: (2)

I tried to be precise and used 'coil' to designate the part of the coil pack. The pack consists of power transistor, coil and few more elements. It turns out Max also has dedicated capacitor which serves as a filter to reduce noise from ignition for the rest of the car. I don't think we'd notice a difference even if it gets removed completely.