M3 Drivers dont seem to mind pushing their cars on the road. I had a nice run against an older body E36 M3. Happened last nite on the 5-southbound. Around Irvine I spotted a lowered black 2-door with 18's, it looked sweet. Pulled up next to it, paced him for about a half mile then dropped into 4th gear around 70mph. I had a good car lead on him before he hauled serious *** and shot passed me around 85~90 and had a 3 car lead all the way to 120... Yes I was owned, but it worthwhile nonetheless. Its nice witnessing their potential first hand.

I havent come across one that isn't amazingly fast. Its odd though, their chassis weighs about as much as a max and their hp\tq ratings are about even, yet I havent managed to narrow the gap with one. Im sure some of you guys have had interesting encounters with them. Maybe its time i dropped the Injen CAI, its draining my mid-range.

Later.

 

i believe they are underrated.

 

I wouldn't doubt that, its an impressive car. Euro spec is even mightier.

 

They are rated at brake horsepower, which is different than our SAE gross number...

In short, they are underrated.

 

Have you guys ran against any of them?

 

I've had my a$$ handed to me by a 745i...doesn't take much common sense to figure out that a faster car like the M3 would pretty much rape me from a stop or roll...

 

I don't think anyone here actually expects to come out on top. Just asking to be let down with a high expectation The 745 is a big car, BMW's new styling hasen't quite grown on me yet.

 

Well, to make matters worse, the E36 M3 is a four cylinder engine, individual TB's, but a four banger none-the-less......... I wouldn't expect an older M3 to lay it on you like he did, maybe he was turbo'd??? Anyways, they are the best handling M3 to date, wouldn't want to dance with one in the twisties

 

Oh no it definitely ain't the 4-cyl. You've got that confused with the E30 man, thats the model with the double lights and really boxy look. The E36 is the model after that, its got a 3.0 and 3.2L Straight Six. But yeah, both can be turboed... the E46 I doubt would work with FI without blowing up, unless the displacement is hacked.

 

Their car: Underrated
Our car: Overrated.

Any questions?

Solution: Get a chip, an exhaust, an intake, a header, a pulley or just buy an old M3 and save!

 

M3's are serious cars. But ya pay for it. I ran with a BMW M roadster and it just kept pullin. very, very fast, and oh so nice!

 

[QUOTE=Quicksilver]They are rated at brake horsepower, which is different than our SAE gross number...

What!!???

Quick.....so sorry but..this ai'nt so. HP ratings for all cars sold in North America changed looong time ago to SAE net HP -which is the engine as installed on the car with all standard accesories, meaning, running its own water pump, alternator, etc.

The old SAE gross # was sans accessories, meaning without accounting for all their parasitic drag/losses

The Bimmer -if anything- would be DIN hp, not even SAE because it's the DIN measurements that are used in Europe -but even then the numbers have been 'Americanized' to equate (supposedly) to SAE Net HP.

That all said, and having owned a Fiver, I agree, BMW engines are under-rated and ours over-rated.

 

Why would you try to race in 4th gear at 70mph? I don't know why no one else mentioned to drop it down to 3rd next time. No wonder why he flew past you after you jumped him. Plus you don't know what mods he has. If he is normally aspirated e36 it should be very close. You should learn to drive your car a bit better especially if you are going to be racing. Notice once you got into the power band in 4th gear 90mph+ he didn't pull on you anymore based on your story?

 

Uh yeah I can read without a magnifying glass thank you very much. But since I had the start I knew i'd hit the powerband by the time he caught on that i wanted to run. Let me add that I cut in front of him to avoid a slower car in my lane, by then i was already around 4k+ WOT with the M3 on my ***, it was from that point on that he switched a lane over and proceeded to pass me.
I was just trying to keep it subtle and not rice from the get go. I agree with your point on downshifting to 3rd, it would have been a more aggressive launch even though i would have hit redline quick by 80mph.

 

Ah so now the story changes bit.

You have to learn to drive if you plan on racing. Trying to jump an M3 in 4th gear at 70mph simply ain't going to happen....

Redlining at 80mph in 3rd gear? What gear and rpm were you at when you hit 120?

Also you really have no idea what mods ie. boost he had so this thread is pretty lame.

A 2k2-2k3 6spd Max or full bolt on 2k-2k1 modded 5spd is a very close match up with an e36 m3 on the highway.

 

There are FI'd e46's. I wouldnt mess around one of those unless you're FI'd as well, and pushing some good numbers. Of course they're gunna have to jack the displacement.....and theres a lot to cut...how else do you think those 6 cylinders have ohhhhh 333hp.

 

I ran one in my 93 SE-R one time, 5spd 4 door and a Cobra Stang and a GT Stang- conv auto. I put about 10 cars on the GT Stang, about 7 cars on the Cobra and about 7 cars on the M3 to 150 run. Granted I was Turbo, but I had 2 less cylinders to play with :P I ran a friends M3 2 door 3.0L with my Max, I will walk it from 70 to 150MPH.. his would stop at around 140MPH due to a speed limter, mine aint got it so I pull to around 150 and shut down. His has a Remus exhaust, Dinan intake and Chip on it now, and we are about even from a roll on. From the start it depends on the driver really. But My SE-R at 15psi of boost would walk a C5 Vette on the highway haha.... think what 24psi on C16 did to a STI on the highway with no traction problems from a 80MPH roll on in 5th to 150MPH U can build a sick car for less than 6 gees including the car. I just bought a 93 G20 on Ebay for 860 bux that looks better than my cousins 99 Max with 40K miles on it. It will be another project cause the G20 needs a motor, so I will build me a relibable motor and be set. Pick up a JDM engine from SOKO in CHicago for 375 bux, piece my own turbo kit with a S15 Turbo that is capable of 380WHP - find them on Ebay all the time. For about 3K bux U can build a awesome turbo kit and run 380WHP reliably on a stock JDM motor. The S15 turbo is what they call the Garrett Disco Potato turbo, it has awesome response with no lag at all. Builds boost around 1800RPM on a stock non turbo JDM SR20DE. Throw some TEINs on the car for 1000 bux, wheels and tires 100 bux and the car is killer. For Grand total of 7K bux for a car that looks like new inside out with all vin tags on it sorry for the long rant... just wanted to let ya guys know how us SE-R geeks do it :P cheap with little or no bling bling

 

[QUOTE=Galo]You're right...about the SAE gross/net thing. I always forget which one is which. The BHP info came straight off BMW's website, so I tend to trust them more so than anyone here. And I just heard it again on Motortrend (the TV show) that they are still rated in BHP...

 

Yea i can drive just fine, i got the jump on him with 4th i didnt HAVE to use third. Theres no point in it when i'm already in 4th and climbing near 80 with him behind me in the same lane. Your right I dont know what mods he had, he was just faster. When I hit 120 I was in 5th with the needle in the high 5~6 range, whatever, im not starting at the needle going those speeds. If this thread is lame to you then feel free to stop posting.

 

whenever i see a new m3 or m5 i always try to race it just for the fun of it.. i love to see the potential of those cars.. theres no shame in losing to an M class and its fun to see them unleash their power.

 

Yes, So true.

 

bhp "brake" horsepower is a sort of redundant term that just specifies that the engine is tested on a brake dyno. This is included in the SAE J1349 spec for their "SAE net horsepower" ratings. Engines are also rated in "PS" sometimes in Europe or Asia and this is pretty much equivalent to J1349 SAE net power. It's off by a horse or two, but I forget whether it's low or high. Engines are also rated in kilowatts (a lower number) which can be converted back to horsepower.

Anyhow, manufacturers can rate their engines at whatever horsepower they want to for advertising or marketing purposes. But they can and will get into trouble if the power they advertise exceeds what the engine legitimately puts out as per SAE J1349. i.e. GM can under-rate the LS1 in the Camaro to only 305hp for marketing purposes when it's really putting out the same 350hp as the Corvette. Under-rating is fine. But when Ford goes and rates their new Cobra engine at 320hp or whatever it was (circa 1999) when it really had much less than that, then they can get owned badly and sued. I've seen dynos for the new 390-horse Cobra at crazy numbers like 350 or 360 stock or something? That's well in excess of 400 at the crank. It looks like Ford may have under-rated it big-time so that maybe insurance premiums are lower for their customers. Benz appears to be doing this as well with a lot of their super and turbocharged beasts in the high-400 hp range but short of 500. In reality from the dynos, they are putting out well in excess of 500 hp already.

As for BMW, they do seem to underrate their engines, as do many German automakers. For BMW specifically, I've read that they use a lot of electric driven accessories instead of hydrualic pulley driven stuff. This cuts down on parasitics and increases overall drivetrain efficiency. I know they do this on the M's but not sure if it's the same thing on other models as well. I'm pretty sure it could be.

 

dont be sorry..my 92 will have 250+ WHP in a few months. SR20 P o W E R!

 

T25 BBird 700 dollar turbo kit ? Yeah U can piece a complete turbo kit with front mount for 1100 with a ECU too, direct plug into a B13. Capable of 250WHP if U got cams and 3" exhaust- then U need JWT.

 

i have s4s, bored MAF, nismo FPR and my ECU is getting the 4 bar program

 

Man those big fonts are anoying. Just as anoying as CAPS.

 

In short...I used to race the local owner of Brecht Motorsports , he had a 98 M3...It was heavily modded.. I used to own him all day up to 100+ in my WS6 which was also modded.... I know the new M3's are beasts, and in order for a 2k2 to smoke one you need a 150 shot or an SSR Turbo..... bolt ons wont do....... As far as an older M3 vs a 2k2 ...If it were a 6 speed 2k2 vs a stock older M3, if he pulled on you that hard, it visited Dinan at some point in its life.....

 

This tread is lame... I can tach out 130 in 4th and keep pulling till it won't go faster at indicated 155MPH. Stock E36s aint **** from a roll, autos are a joke !Mike J.
My GXE 5spd- 229WHP na.

 

What kind of rims are those BlackBIRDVQ?

 

You have to ask....

 

They look good on his car

 

Word! Right on.

 

These are VOLK TE37s bronze. Weight something like 14lbs for 18s.

 

yea and cost $2k+ too!

 

Sadly the maxima isn't even close to the same class as an M3 and in any road comparison it would show. Those are fast buggars especially the recent ones!

 

A 2k2 6spd Max can only be compared to an e36 M3 in straight line performance only.

 

pst.. we've got fast family cars we arent even supposed to compare to it

 

130 in 4th???

 

first day I picked up my fathers E430 out of the dealership I walked one real nice (manual w/ some
musclehead guido driving it) he was ****ed

In my Max havent had any one bite on the road though (mostly older men driving their stock E36)

RWD ownnnssss joooo past 75-80mph........

 

I'm still stock in my '00 SE 5spd and I go to 123 in 4th.