2002 Maxima VS 2004 Forester XT
12-02-2003, 12:09 PM
#1
2002 Maxima VS 2004 Forester XT
I don't understand this at all. Cars are roughly the same weight and power (Subaru fudged the numbers). I take the same winding road to work. Neither car has been modified in any way, yet my car feels heavier going around the corners. I don't push the cars to a point where AWD would make the difference, so my question is:
Why does a car that is taller than my Maxima (roofline and suspension) stick to the road better?
Going through the twisties I feel (and often do) have the car faster than I should. The Maxima at 5 to 10 under that feels like it will fly off the road.
Why does a car that is taller than my Maxima (roofline and suspension) stick to the road better?
Going through the twisties I feel (and often do) have the car faster than I should. The Maxima at 5 to 10 under that feels like it will fly off the road.
12-02-2003, 12:32 PM
#2
Originally Posted by 2002 Maxima SE
I don't understand this at all. Cars are roughly the same weight and power (Subaru fudged the numbers). I take the same winding road to work. Neither car has been modified in any way, yet my car feels heavier going around the corners. I don't push the cars to a point where AWD would make the difference, so my question is:
Why does a car that is taller than my Maxima (roofline and suspension) stick to the road better?
Going through the twisties I feel (and often do) have the car faster than I should. The Maxima at 5 to 10 under that feels like it will fly off the road.
Why does a car that is taller than my Maxima (roofline and suspension) stick to the road better?
Going through the twisties I feel (and often do) have the car faster than I should. The Maxima at 5 to 10 under that feels like it will fly off the road.
Mainly because that is what Subaru is all about is the off road and rally type of driving so I wouldn't ever try to challenge any Subaru on the twisties. You would have to do a lot of suspension work to get your Max to feel the same way in those roads and I still think that the Subaru would feel better.
12-02-2003, 12:35 PM
#3
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 16
You Greatly Underestimate the power of AWD,
I had an audi and I do not want to spend the money agian for one, But I know if I get a maxima I will miss the AWD the most
I had an audi and I do not want to spend the money agian for one, But I know if I get a maxima I will miss the AWD the most
Originally Posted by 2002 Maxima SE
I don't understand this at all. Cars are roughly the same weight and power (Subaru fudged the numbers). I take the same winding road to work. Neither car has been modified in any way, yet my car feels heavier going around the corners. I don't push the cars to a point where AWD would make the difference, so my question is:
Why does a car that is taller than my Maxima (roofline and suspension) stick to the road better?
Going through the twisties I feel (and often do) have the car faster than I should. The Maxima at 5 to 10 under that feels like it will fly off the road.
Why does a car that is taller than my Maxima (roofline and suspension) stick to the road better?
Going through the twisties I feel (and often do) have the car faster than I should. The Maxima at 5 to 10 under that feels like it will fly off the road.
12-02-2003, 12:56 PM
#4
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 20
The forester's suspension setup is a lot better matched for its weight and size and it is also a fully independent, unlike the maxima. That AWD system is always monitoring road conditions, so it's hard to tell if your at the limit were AWD makes a dfference. One thing to look out for is that forester XT's are rockets, a true sleeper.
12-02-2003, 01:01 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by zooma
The forester's suspension setup is a lot better matched for its weight and size and it is also a fully independent, unlike the maxima. That AWD system is always monitoring road conditions, so it's hard to tell if your at the limit were AWD makes a dfference. One thing to look out for is that forester XT's are rockets, a true sleeper.
12-02-2003, 01:06 PM
#6
It's chrome alright...
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,009
Originally Posted by SkoorbMax
They are brutal and merciless on the low end from a stop light, but suck gonads on the highway. It's all gearing I guess, but the new forester xts are 5 something from 0-60, and their top speed is if I recall around 129, making it prey for a maxima on the highend. I assume that's drag limited and not rev or electronic, but i'm not sure. If it's either of the latter I can't say how it would compare to the maxima's ~145 top speed.
how does it do from 70-110mph? (a spirited run)
how about 40-100mph? (onramp racing)
how about 30-75mph? (accelerating to get in traffic in morning rush hour)
the forester beats the maxima in all those, so to say "compare to the maxima ~145 top speed" is like saying "but I can beat it at something I'll never have the chance to do."
It's faster and handles better. Don't go reaching for places we can beat it. It's not becoming.
12-02-2003, 01:47 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by 2k2wannabe
we go 0-60 a lot more often than we go over 125mph so to say "suck gonads o the highway" is wrong.
how does it do from 70-110mph? (a spirited run)
how about 40-100mph? (onramp racing)
how about 30-75mph? (accelerating to get in traffic in morning rush hour)
the forester beats the maxima in all those, so to say "compare to the maxima ~145 top speed" is like saying "but I can beat it at something I'll never have the chance to do."
It's faster and handles better. Don't go reaching for places we can beat it. It's not becoming.
how does it do from 70-110mph? (a spirited run)
how about 40-100mph? (onramp racing)
how about 30-75mph? (accelerating to get in traffic in morning rush hour)
the forester beats the maxima in all those, so to say "compare to the maxima ~145 top speed" is like saying "but I can beat it at something I'll never have the chance to do."
It's faster and handles better. Don't go reaching for places we can beat it. It's not becoming.
And, regardless of how it FEELS around corners, the forester can only get .75 on the skidpad, which is really not good at all.
I'm not ******* the car - it's a super sleeper. Who would look at it and think that it can stay with cars like a 350z (or beat them!) at the lights? It's just that it does have some definite shortcomings.
12-02-2003, 03:32 PM
#9
Originally Posted by SkoorbMax
It's all relative. A car that does 129 top speed (assuming this is drag limited, which I'm not sure of) vs. one that does 145 top speed is going to lose to the faster car in any speeds over 100 undoubtedly. I'm not sure exactly what speed the maxima would start to take the forester if they both floored it. Don't forget that just because the forester has powerful low end you can't make speed out of nothing, and it's a heavy vehicle without all that much horsepower (compared to other cars that are similar in 0-60 or 1/4). Gearing and torque can give it a sweet low end but for high end speed you need horses.
And, regardless of how it FEELS around corners, the forester can only get .75 on the skidpad, which is really not good at all.
I'm not ******* the car - it's a super sleeper. Who would look at it and think that it can stay with cars like a 350z (or beat them!) at the lights? It's just that it does have some definite shortcomings.
And, regardless of how it FEELS around corners, the forester can only get .75 on the skidpad, which is really not good at all.
I'm not ******* the car - it's a super sleeper. Who would look at it and think that it can stay with cars like a 350z (or beat them!) at the lights? It's just that it does have some definite shortcomings.
It's a fukking SUV! It's not supposed to have a great topend...
12-02-2003, 03:49 PM
#11
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
There's a guy with a bonestock Forester XT that's run 13.7@96mph at my track. He pulled a freaking 1.7 60' with a 5000rpm clutch slip. The 96mph trap speed shows that the Forester is all about the 1/8 mile (0-80mph). After that it's a dog thanks to it's super deep 4.40 gear. I'd love to see a XT with some good looking 17s, meaty tires, a 2.5" drop, maybe some more aggressive wheelwell flarings, and possibly some bodykit stuff. I think all this could really transform this ugly duckling.
My wife has a 98 Legacy GT wagon which is pretty sweet. It only has 165hp and it's a auto, but the 4.40 gearing actually gives it quite decent 0-50mph acceleration. 1st goes to 30mph, 2nd to 55mph, 3rd to 80mph, and 4th is good to ~120mph. It's geared REALLY deep. It does handle quite well, but my Maxima still would own it. The AWD does give a sense of better lateral grip and it actually allows you to steer with the rear as you reach the limit. I constantly day dream about swapping in the 2.5 turbo from the STi/XT. What a bada$$ combo that would be with a high stall torque converter.
Dave
My wife has a 98 Legacy GT wagon which is pretty sweet. It only has 165hp and it's a auto, but the 4.40 gearing actually gives it quite decent 0-50mph acceleration. 1st goes to 30mph, 2nd to 55mph, 3rd to 80mph, and 4th is good to ~120mph. It's geared REALLY deep. It does handle quite well, but my Maxima still would own it. The AWD does give a sense of better lateral grip and it actually allows you to steer with the rear as you reach the limit. I constantly day dream about swapping in the 2.5 turbo from the STi/XT. What a bada$$ combo that would be with a high stall torque converter.
Dave
12-02-2003, 05:01 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,461
don't forget it has a boxer engine and it sits back further in the engine bay making the center of gravity of the car more balanced or something along these lines
12-02-2003, 05:28 PM
#13
Originally Posted by GLE02NJ
don't forget it has a boxer engine and it sits back further in the engine bay making the center of gravity of the car more balanced or something along these lines
wtf is a porsche engine doing in a subaru????
12-02-2003, 05:34 PM
#14
A BOXER engine is not from a Porsche BOXTER, there's something specific about the engine that makes it a Boxer engine, I don't quite know what it is, maybe the positioning, someone else here who knows about it will explain it to you I'm sure.
12-02-2003, 05:42 PM
#15
It's chrome alright...
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,009
Originally Posted by GuZo
A BOXER engine is not from a Porsche BOXTER, there's something specific about the engine that makes it a Boxer engine, I don't quite know what it is, maybe the positioning, someone else here who knows about it will explain it to you I'm sure.
Boxer Engine
The basic configuration and layout of the engine is a Four Cylinder Horizontally Opposed Engine. This is often referred to as being a Flat 4 or Boxer Engine. The term 'Flat 4' describes the relatively flat layout of the engines four cylinders which are mounted horizontally in opposing pairs. The term 'Boxer Engine' describes the motion of the engines pistons, which move back and forth horizontally in opposing pairs (like a pair of boxer's arms).
http://www.peebles34.freeserve.co.uk...r%20Engine.htm
12-02-2003, 05:44 PM
#16
Originally Posted by IgS
wtf is a porsche engine doing in a subaru????
Actually, the boxers are all derived from the old VW aircooled engines (I'm talking ground vehicles only...aircraft had some boxer engines as well). They are very good engines...
12-02-2003, 06:02 PM
#17
Wild at Hurt
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 580
Had 2 Subarus, very magical in handling and steering (steering feel is great also)
Very low center of gravity. The Forrester is on the same chasis as the WRX. The Japaneese Subys have astounding performance. Wait till you see the new Legacy on sale just now in japan and we get it next year. Styling on par with acura. Horizontally opposed engines have perfect primary balance but the secondary is off quite a bit giving that thrumb sound. BMW cycle 1100 1150 R series have boxer 2 cyls, Goldwing is boxer 4 and 6cyls.
Very low center of gravity. The Forrester is on the same chasis as the WRX. The Japaneese Subys have astounding performance. Wait till you see the new Legacy on sale just now in japan and we get it next year. Styling on par with acura. Horizontally opposed engines have perfect primary balance but the secondary is off quite a bit giving that thrumb sound. BMW cycle 1100 1150 R series have boxer 2 cyls, Goldwing is boxer 4 and 6cyls.
12-02-2003, 07:58 PM
#20
Wild at Hurt
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 580
But the 2 Subys had acceleration best measured by a calender instead of a stopwatch. The turbos are fine as is the 6 but the 6 is too spendy.
The forrester is kinda ugly I agree, made it look kinda Toy Highlanderish which my wife thinks is beautiful. Go figure! She also says that the Maxima is too masculine. I reply whaaa, just because it has the bulging blue veins painted on does not mean it wont appeal to women
The forrester is kinda ugly I agree, made it look kinda Toy Highlanderish which my wife thinks is beautiful. Go figure! She also says that the Maxima is too masculine. I reply whaaa, just because it has the bulging blue veins painted on does not mean it wont appeal to women
12-02-2003, 08:11 PM
#22
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by Dave B
There's a guy with a bonestock Forester XT that's run 13.7@96mph at my track.
Later,
S.L.
02 Majestic Blue Maxima SE 6-speed
12-02-2003, 10:33 PM
#23
Originally Posted by GTPguy97
WTF?? Are you serious? So Suby is making a freakin SUV that is quicker than it's WRX? And this damn thing is only 1/2 second slower than the STi? That dont make no sense at all.
Later,
S.L.
02 Majestic Blue Maxima SE 6-speed
Later,
S.L.
02 Majestic Blue Maxima SE 6-speed
12-03-2003, 03:59 AM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
Guys, I have a car and driver mag at work and I was thumbing through it yesterday. The forester gets about 5.3 in the 0-60 and it said in C&D about 13.8 for the quarter mile, so dave b's numbers are entirely believable. BTW that's faster than a 350z in the 1/4 by about half a sec 
Plus it's an easy sell on the wife if she wants something practical to cart the kids around in 
The thing to me almost defies physics. It's supposedly got only 210 HP (235 torque). Even if that's underrated a good bit the car still weighs 3200 lbs or thereabouts, and it will run the quarter with cars you'd assume to be a hell of a lot faster. But, like mentioned above, it's all in the gearing. The thing is not a highway racer, but at the lowend it's crazy fast.
I seem to recall reading a review that it's faster than a ferrari enzo from 0-20 or something like that, simply because its awd plus a high rpm clutch drop makes the thing launch like a buggar. Can't be good on the tranny, but it gets results!
It really is the ultimate sleeper
I wonder what it would take to put it into the high 12s?
As mentioned above yeah it will outdo a wrx, at least lowend. But the thing, though it may feel stable, only pulls .75 g according to those C&D numbers, so it's not going to take corners particularly fast (although you'll get to them quickly!).
Plus it's an easy sell on the wife if she wants something practical to cart the kids around in The thing to me almost defies physics. It's supposedly got only 210 HP (235 torque). Even if that's underrated a good bit the car still weighs 3200 lbs or thereabouts, and it will run the quarter with cars you'd assume to be a hell of a lot faster. But, like mentioned above, it's all in the gearing. The thing is not a highway racer, but at the lowend it's crazy fast.
I seem to recall reading a review that it's faster than a ferrari enzo from 0-20 or something like that, simply because its awd plus a high rpm clutch drop makes the thing launch like a buggar. Can't be good on the tranny, but it gets results!
It really is the ultimate sleeper
I wonder what it would take to put it into the high 12s?As mentioned above yeah it will outdo a wrx, at least lowend. But the thing, though it may feel stable, only pulls .75 g according to those C&D numbers, so it's not going to take corners particularly fast (although you'll get to them quickly!).
12-03-2003, 04:34 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 312
**** guys, those things are the real ultimate power!!! they are sooooo sweet i want to crap my pants. I mean this thing is awesome and by awesome i mean totaly sweet!
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