MAX2000JP

Wow another brake thread! The OEM brakes are fine on the street if you don't drive like a *******. You can upgrade the tires, pads, lines, and fluids and have a competent braking system. The track is where the OEM brakes show their weakness. Not many Maxima owners track their cars, so IMO BBK's are unnecessary.

MAX2000JP

I have a pretty solid theory why the rotors warped....The OEM pads. I switched my OEM pads to Performance Frictions and have never warped my rotors in 40K miles of hard driving. The first 30K miles I took my car into the dealer 3 times to have the rotors resurfaced.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Sure. If you granny the car around and only use it to about 50% capability sure. But by that logic, stock intakes, Y pipes, wheels, tires and suspension are all fine too. But no one questions those mods.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

So that's why Nissan went to larger rotors in 2k4? Why not just use diff pads?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Irish, how much space from the outside of the caliper to the inside of the wheel spoke. ie.. clearance. I'm curious to know if there's enough room for some 300z calipers. heh

MAX2000JP

I don't work for Nissan, can't answer that for ya. I know what happened with my car when I changed the OEM pads. I was having a lot of problems with rotor warpage and all of a sudden it stopped when I changed to aftermarket pads. I personally would say the rotors are larger for fade resistance.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

IMHO, Nissan found out how inadequate their small rotors were even for grandma and grandpa and upped the diameter for better torque arm advantage. Not to mention the extra material for better controlled heat dissipation etc....

MAX2000JP

Honestly, you aren't using the car nearly to it's capacity on the street. You may use your engine to its capacity rowing thru the gears, but not the suspension and brakes. I don't drive anything like a granny and I wouldn't upgrade my brakes for street use. Simply put, I know how to drive. Don't ride the persons bumper in front of you and keep your distance and you will be a lot easier of the braking system. Anticipate what's going to happen around you and look ahead and the brake system won't take a beating.

HP mods are more common because people are concerned with 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. You don't need a BBK to stop at a drag strip when you are trapping 100 mph.

MAX2000JP

I honestly think that it wasn't necessarily heat that caused the warpage, rather pad material. I can't say positiviely if it was heat or pad material on the rotor that caused the warpage, but like I said before, my problems went away when I purchased PF carbon metallic pads.v

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

So why mod for hp performance either?

By that logic even Vipers could get away with maxima brakes. But they don't. The cars braking performance should match the car's hp performance. And since alot of maximas are SC'd, Turbo'd and Nitrous'd, it would make very good sense to upgrade the brakes. Because if some of these guys are upping the hp by 100-150hp, they had better be upping the brakes too.

I don't drag. Most people here don't drag. They drive their cars everyday. If a bbk can drop the brake distance by even 5 ft, that is very often the difference inbetween hitting someone and not hitting someone. Now that minor $600 upgrade doesn't seem that expensive anymore. That's only a one time emergency stop. And correct me if I'm wrong, most of the general public does NOT drive 60mph on the freeway. Try more like 75-80mph if conditions are clear. Now we are talking about speeds where a bbk WILL make a significant difference. Both in fade resistance and distance reduction.

MAX2000JP

Simply because people are enamered with driving fast in a straight line. Mufflers, y-pipes, and intakes also add sound to the car. Why do you think there are so many ricers running around with fart can mufflers? Performance? Maybe in their minds. Sound? Ding Ding Ding.



Apples to oranges comparison. A lot of people on here forget that the Maxima is a FAMILY SEDAN not a SPORTS CAR, there is a big difference in the two. Also, a lot of people don't factor in that maxima.org is a small drop of owners in the maxima "gene" pool. The number of fast Maximas is very very minute if you compare it to the total numbers produced. The majority of Maximas are bone stock. Vipers are designed as a sports car, that is meant for track use(if the owner chooses to). The Maxima was designed as a 5 passeger sedan to get from point a to b. I can go on and on, but I think my point is clear.

Sorry, I should have said most enthusiast that mod their cars are more likely to take their cars to a drag strip rather than road cource. A BBK won't make a significant difference if you are using your resources correctly. You can upgrade the OEM lines for better feel and pads for better fade resistance and more torque(assuming you use a harsher compound). Upgrading your tires from the stock A/S's to max performance summer tires will yeild the largest gains in stopping distance over anything else. Again, on the street you will not fade your brakes enough to justify a BBK. The best mod is the driver; pay attention, anticipate, and don't drive like an idiot.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

From various sources:

1992 maxima 60-0 about 145 ft. 11.x rotors, single piston calipers

2001 Bullit Mustang about 116ft. 13.0 rotors, 2 piston calipers

1992 300zx about 129ft. 11.x rotors (thicker than maxima) 4 piston calipers.

I run the 13" Mustang rotors and the 300z 4 piston calipers. I also run 1" larger rotors in the rear for proper brake bias.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I was under the impression that the mods I mentioned actually helped performance. Try to leave the ricers out of it.

The amount of bbk users is also small. But small or not, they ARE running alot more hp. So they SHOULD run "higher hp brakes" correct? I fail to see the logic in making 150 more hp and still using the same crappy stock brakes. Makes no sense. Maybe to you it does.

Whether or not the Viper is a performance car or not, does not prove your point. You point being, drive slow and you won't have to worry about the brakes. People drive Vipers slow. But on the other hand, people drive maximas fast. If they do, they should upgrade their equipment accordingly. Correct??


Sorry but we do have an road track/autocross section correct??

I don't care how one "uses their recources". If one is traveling 75-80 mph on the freeway (and most here do), if you need to haul your car down NOW for whatever reason, your stock sized rotor resources will be used up in fade and brake distance. Why is making better brakes though pads/lines okay but not using larger rotors and better calipers?? Doesn't make sense. If you use diff pads and lines, those are no longer stock, so why stop there?

Although BBKs can make a BIG difference, even 5ft can be the difference inbetween hitting and not hitting someone. Seems like a big difference to me. And all the defense grandma driving in the world won't eliminate all the emergency situations needing the shortest braking dist peformance available.

If the stock brake's specifications can handle the increased non-stock loads now placed on them. If it can, the brakes will heat, fade and then fail.

Again, by that logic all hp performance mods are also not justified. Simple as that. Either keep the car 100% or mod all areas accordingly.

I agree. That's common sense. I don't rely on my bbk's improved braking any more than I rely on my hp performance adders to keep me out of trouble.

carnal_c30

iTrader: (38)

I drove cars with the Z brake upgrade, and I'm glad I went with the AP brake kit... I have 12.8 Supra upgrades on my Lexus, and a straight Z brake upgrade on my 240sx... and the AP is king in feel and performance... I know my APs were a motivating factor in your brake purchase Daniel

honestly I think its the best mod I've ever done, 4 years of bad azz braking

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Jeff, it's snowing and nasty outside now, so I'm not gonna go measure. I can tell you it's at least two fingers' width (what's that, maybe 3-4cm?) and there is a TON of clearance...with the OEM rims, there is only about 1/2 cm. clearance or so...

MAX2000JP

They do have help performance, but they also have a "cool" factor to them due to the sound they make. There are a lot of posts I see saying "which sounds better X vs X"


Not necessary if you take the proper steps. A good pad, tires, and lines will be perfectly adequate for the street. The stock brakes with PF pads work fine on my stock car, which is what the vast majority of Maximas are...stock.

Proves my point exactly, you are comparing apples to oranges. The Maxima was designed as a family sedan with decent performance. The Viper was designed as a no holds bar performance car, that is suitable for track use. I can go on and on about the differences. I drive fast in my Maxima and I have never not been confident in the braking system. Drive like a jerk-off and yes the stock brakes will not be the greatest. If you drive like this, invest in some SS brake lines and better pads.



Look at how many posts there are.....I would guess that 99.75% of Maxima owners will never take their cars to a road course or autocross event.


You don't take into account suspension or tires. Brakes don't matter if you cannot get traction. The OEM brakes work fine for street use. Cost is a major reason not to use larger rotors and calipers, plus the fact that it's OVERKILL on the street.

Here's a little fact for you, 90% of accidents are caused by human errors, the other 10% are caused by mechanical failures. You can prevent the vast majority of emergency situations by paying attention to your surroundings. A BBK won't save you any distance, if you don't have the proper tires. When stopping the vehicle, you are forgetting that the tires are the only thing in contact with the pavement. The tires on your car make the greatest difference in stopping distances.

Not at all....HP mods you can use to their fullest potential on the street. The majority of people are more concerned with 0-60 times and 1/4 times. They could care less if a BBK decreases their 80-0 stopping distance by 3 ft. Again, you wont use a BBK to its fullest potential on the street, simply because you will never get the pads warm enough, nor the tires. If you use your daily drive Maxima as a weekend track car, BBK's are almost a must if you are a competent driver. Otherwise, it's overkill.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I can't believe you would advocate someone running over 100-150hp in their maxima to run stock or near stock brakes. That's not even close to being logical. The brakes were designed for a car that weighs xx lbs, with xx suspension and xx hp. If you upgrade ANY of those factors, the brakes should be upgraded accordingly. Period.

It's not about driving defensively nor is it about if someone "cares" about decent stopping power. It's about having a well balanced, modded car. If you upgrade everything else and leave the brakes stock, it's no longer a well balanced car. It's now a car that can very easily overpower it's braking system. Neither safe or smart.

SkoorbMax

If you plan to race with it I can see it. If all you do is street drive you should be summarily executed for wasting money on brake upgrades.

Sometimes I wonder if people even go to school anymore. You can have 45" rotors but they aren't worth a damn if your tires are breaking free from the road, and considering that even crap brakes can do that (several times in a row, so don't start talking about fade on street driving), there is no need for a brake upgrade.

Only exception would be if you need new brakes anyway I can see getting some nicer rotors/pads for longevity.

MAX2000JP

Hate to tell you this, but no matter how much you mod a Maxima, it wont be a well balanced car. You are starting off with an inferior beam suspension, poor weight distribution, and FWD. I never said to not upgraded the brakes, in fact I have stated several times a more agressive pad and SS lines should be added.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Then why upgrade at all?? If the stock brakes are so great, why not just use the stock stuff?? After all, if you take the proper steps........right? Is having better braking better or not?? If it is better, then bbk agree that bbks are even better than just a marginal pad upgrade.

Doesn't make sense nor does it prove your point. I know what the differences inbetween a Viper and a maxima. I was the one that mentioned the Viper remember. It's not about the differences. It's how ONE DRIVES them. Drive each one hard, then brakes are important. Drive like a grandma, then brakes are nearly as important.

So, the forum is there because members wanted it. The wanted it because they actually do those events.

I get plenty of traction from my 245-45 Comp TAs. Hmmm suddenly big rotors/calipers are OVERKILL now. Even though all Ford mustangs come with 13" rotors stock. The Lincoln LS uses big 12.xx rotors. IF big rotors and calipers are OVERKILL, why do all these cars come with them as OEM equipment??? Because according to you, you don't need BBK systems on the street? Regardless of the car. The car doesn't matter, because as you have stated, drive slow and there is no need?? Why does that advice only work on a maxima? And if that advice applies to all cars, why do cars come with such large brakes now??

Umm how can a BBK NOT save any distance when they are designed to do exactly that??

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I hate to tell you this, but if you mod everything else and keep the brakes stock, you now have a more ill-balanced car than before. So regardless of how ill-balanced you think the maxima was before, it's even more so now. That point must have swept right by you. BTW I have IRS

So you say pads and lines are okay. That is good for what? Maybe a very minor increase in peformance? So why is that minor increase okay but a major one is not? We aren't talking price. Just the benefits of having shorter braking dist and less fade. I fail to see how one would be against that.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I think Nissan should be executed for allowing their heavy maximas come out of the factory in 2000 with the same brakes they introduced 1989. Same sized rotors and same calipers.

Sure. I can just stand on the stock brakes and get them to lock. But unfortunately, that is the point. One must literally stand on them to get any brake performane. That does nothing for modulation or feel. Much less any type of brake dist peformance. Try hauling down your stock braked maxima from even a marginal 80mph "several times". They will be fading.

SkoorbMax

That's what I'm saying, but people like to rationalize a want, instead of wanting something rational Damned if I know, but with all of the rotor warping issues on 6th gens it doesn't look like they fixed it I don't wanna - the rotors will probably warp

MAX2000JP

In my case warpage. Like I stated before the OEM pads cause the rotors to warp.

Drive any street car hard enough and the brakes are going to fade. I don't know of any company that puts race compound pads on their cars out of the factory. Furthermore, you shouldn't be driving this way on the street and if you do, you are endangering yourself and the general public. Again, I agree BBK's are great for the track, overkill for the street. The OEM brakes are fine for the street and slightly upgraded they are fine for modded cars.



Ummm....You may want to check and see how much a Lincoln LS weighs. Cars are coming with bigger brakes recently because cars are getting heavier and heavier with every redesign. Again, I don't think you discern the difference in engineering a sports car/muscle car like the Mustang vs a Nissan Maxima. The new Mustang comes with 12.X" front rotors in a 3450 lbs car. FYI, all Mustangs don't come with 13" rotors, only the SVT Cobra's do.

A BBK's main purpose is to increase feel and decrease fade. Do I need to show you the link to stoptech's main engineer stating this?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'd just like to throw this old thread in for information to people who may have missed it:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=310456

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I don't either. Most maker use larger rotors and multipiston calipers. And brake performance has greatly improved. You keep saying OEM. If you want to get technical, I am using OEM brakes. OEM rotors and OEM calipers. Just not maxima OEM. Overkill, okay quality brakes are overkill, but clearly 150 more hp is NOT overkill on the street. What sense did that just make?

Um again, who cares? They should be driving like grandmas on the street. No need correct? Because if they don't drive hard, no need? The fact that these cars HAVE such brakes is a testemant to the need for them on the street. Why exactly can't I have sports car brakes on my maxima???? Exactly how could that NOT be a good thing if I wish to have it??


The 1998 Cobra and a quite a few svt mustangs after that come with 13" rotors standard. And since they are a similar weight and because some maximas her actually have more power than those Mustangs, we/they should be running brake systems similar to that.

Bring it. I've used stoptech's site also.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

And fade, and take another 40 ft to stop etc.......

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

IMHO, stock brakes are inadequate on my car for the 85-100+mph hwy braking I frequently see. I've had numerous times that I've attempted to pass and had to slam on the OEMs to try and get back in behind the slower vehicle. All I know is that with the OEM brakes, it is a scary feeling because it takes WAAAY too long to slow my momentum.

I will go with a rear kit to supplement my AP front kit and hopefully that will answer my driving style.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

http://www.zeckhausen.com/testing_br...#Track%20Model

And THIS was over the stock Track Edition Brembo front brakes : )

MAX2000JP

Suspension technology and chassis stiffness have also improved over the years to improve braking. Tire technology has also improved to improve braking as well. OEM manufacturers use multipiston calipers for better feel and larger rotors for fade resistance. Everytime I see a car redesigned, it gains weight over the previous generation. That's why brake size keeps increaseing.

Where did this driving like grandma's come from? Drive like a normal person, not like a jerkoff and they are fine. You can have sports car brakes on your Maxima, but I will tell you they are overkill for normal street driving. Doesn't hurt to have them, but again, not needed IMO.



SVT Cobra's after 98, the Bullit, and the Mach I came with 13" brakes with 2 piston Calipers(PBR IIRC). Again, I think this comes down to the classification of vehicles. A 450 fwhp Maxima should have at least upgraded pads and line. You plan on tracking/auto-xing that car, a BBK is a must.

MAX2000JP

I have always wondered this, but what mods do you have on your car? I know you post a lot in the turbo section, so it got me wondering. Sorry, kinda OT.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

I'm not planning in getting too involved in this overkill back-and-forth you guys have going, but have a couple points:

- Although I am all in favor of upgrading everything in the car, this has to be done in stages, unless you have a ton of $$ sitting around (and if you do, why are you driving a maxima?). In engine modding, you might start with a y-pipe or intake, move on to headers, UPD, etc, and then finally go to the supercharger. Most people do not just take a maxima and bolt a supercharger right on as the very first thing.

Most people here also don't get a new car and immediatley install coilovers, LTB, bushings and other "high-performance" suspension parts all at once. They do it in stages, as their driving style and budget will permit.

It's the same with brakes. Would we all like some high-end 4-piston BBKs? Sure! But just like the engine - start basic (better pads, better fluid), upgrade a little (SS lines, maybe better rotors, better fluid), upgrade some more (blehmco BBK perhaps), then upgrade your wheels (to FIT a true BBK), and only then upgrade to a full-blown BBK with 4-piston calipers, larger rotors...

Jeff, you keep on saying "why would you get SS lines" or "change pads" if you're not going all the way to a true BBK. I'll give you one BIG reason: because putting in a true BBK and wheels that will fit over them (and tires for those wheels) costs several thousand dollars in most cases - a price that many people cannot justify for the marginal "everyday driving" improvement a BBK can make. The same reason many people can't go all the way to a SC for the engine. It's all about cost-benefit.


Although I've done soem braking upgrades (pads, SS lines, blehmco kit, and soon 6th gen calipers), I don't expect (nor have I seen) a DRASTIC improvement. On the other hand, I have basically ALL the available suspension/handling upgrades (outside of poly bushings) for the 5th gen, so in many cases, I can use the car's handling and steering to AVOID hitting something, whereas a maxima with only a RSB and FSTB with a BBK might not be able to do some of the maneuvers I can without losing control of the vehicle.

Bottom line: A S/C is nice. A BBK is nice. Do we all want them? Sure. Do we all need them? Not really. Can we all afford them? For most, that's a NO.

It's all about "baby steps"...upgrade as your time, knowledge, need, and budget can handle. A small improvement (in this case better pads, or SS lines) is better than no improvement.

But arguing that one should either "do nothing" or "go all the way" is a ridiculous notion.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Pretty much stock.....

As far as brakes are concerned, I currently have original SE rims/tires/pads/rotors/lines/suspension, but I did flush with Valvoline Syn fluid.

MAX2000JP

You just said you had AP front a few posts above

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Irish,

You can run APs with a 5mm spacer and OEM 17s, so you really don't need to get new rims.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

The bottom line with this, Ice, is that regardless of what you are driving (or what mods you may or may not have) the sign of a good driver is one who knows the limits of his vehicle. If your brakes are not good enough for a 100+ mph stop, then you should not got 100+ mph. If you are driving a Geo metro, you probably should not try to pull out and pass a car going 80 on a 2-lane road...

By the way Ice, I am not saying you as in YOU personally...I am saying "you" as in "any given driver"

any vehicle is safe when driven within its limits, respective of modifications. And any vehicle can be unsafe when the driver exceeds its limits, REGARDLESS of mods...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Buying stuff is a lot easier then actually installing it....

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

what size rotor is the AP?

I was speaking in general terms, not of specific BBKs though....and there are plenty of maxima BBKs that will not fit under our chunky 17's

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

The Honda S2000 is lighter and has less power than a 2000 maxima. Yet it features 300mm front rotors

Okay drive normal. IMHO, the 2000+ maximas need every brake advantage they can get. Not too many 3300+ cars with any power still come with small rotors and single piston calipers anymore.

What does the classification have anything to with the weight,power and the need for better brakes?? If your car has xx weight and xx power, it should have the appropriate brakes. Classification or not. The car doesn't perform any better or worse if it's classified as a sports car or not.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

true....but can we all agree that alot of vehicles come STOCK with big rotors and pretty calipers for cosmetics' sake as well, and not attribute it completely to a performance need. I'm sure an S2000 could stop just fine with smaller rotors....

I mean, the "tail" on the maxima doesn't help performance, but the manufacturer puts it on because it looks good.....