Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

It's a good thing they don't. But Nissan has done as such.

This proves my point exactly. Although I've already said as such, it's nice to know you mention it again. Nissan marketed the maxima as a sports car. Unfortunately you and I know it doesn't peform as one. Result. People driving the car over and above what the oem brakes are capable of. Thus needing better brakes.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

so which of those BBKs performed the best, out of curiosity?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

90-110mph is crusing speed as long as your tires are in good shape IMO. 120+mph is pushing it, but I've shadowed a SS Camaro and Porche TT at those speeds for a bit, I just hate trying to use the brakes to slow down.

Accelerating to pass a semi at 70mph and then having to slam on the brakes because you couldn't "safely" pass easily shows OEM brakes aren not "fine" and should be improved.

Pads aren't going to make a considerable braking difference and lines will help feel, which I don't mind stock.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Very well said, 100% agree.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

AP's and Brembo bbk pedal feel is the best due to the piston sizes. The are also the lightest in the two piece design (Ap 13.1 in, Brembo 12.9 in, both 28mm thick IIRC) They all brake relatively the same since they all feature 4 pistons and large 12+inch rotors, although I haven't tried the blehmco or cobra kit anywhere except on the street.

I personally feel that they probably brake all the same on a day to day basis. I don't have the resources to test everyone throughly at the track. However if any maxima would like to show up to my local NASA event (www.nasaproracing.org) I would be willing to run some tests side by side.

Driven EF9

most Maxima owners only use their car to 50% of it's capability.

Worse analogy ever.

Name 5 guys who have 320hp+ in their maxima. I'm also willing to bet, out of those 5 guys, half of them are on stock sized rotors and stock calipers.

1st, yes... they drive their cars everyday.
2nd, big brake kits don't stop cars sooner... better tyres do.
3rd, big brake kits require more maintenance...since most drive their car everyday, they tend to NOT routinely go over their brake systems.

but, you don't know that cause you have no facts to back your claims... that's like me saying my grounding kit gave me 120hp. what would you say? dyno printout, right? same thing...

you have a brake bias kit on your maxima? or, you just think 2" larger front rotors and 1" larger rear rotors are "proper brake bias". what are the diameter of the pistons vs. stock? What about the fluid capacity of the fluids of the calipers vs. stock. you don't know, do you? so how can you say it's "proper brake bias"?

and we have a winner, give him a bear (or beer if he's old enough)!

I fail to see the logic of having 150hp and having bigger brakes relate. sure, on a sports car or a car that's tracked...but, not a street car.
your car will stop from 60mph EXACTLY the same if you have 20hp or 600hp...assuming all else is equal.

Because the question the thread author was asking was: "is it WORTH it to go BBK".
NO. it's not.

weight and tyre choices.

no they don't. Only on their performance vehicles. list 10 cars with multipiston calipers for under $30K. can't find 10? do 5....

no one said you couldn't. If you're confused, reread the first post of the thread.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Exactly.....

I think Jeff's analogy was off a bit, I assume he was trying to say that someone with 350 hp is likely to drive faster than someone with 250 hp. That may or may not be true....I don't drive faster in my 230hp maxima than i did in my 140 hp accord, frankly. But HP is not related to braking, unless you are using that horsepower to attain higher top speed, and then braking from that top speed.

All this said, I am going with a "compromise solution" this weekend:
replacing my OEM caliper/6th gen rotor (Blehmco) setup with:

-6th gen rotors
-6th gen calipers
-SS lines
-ATE blue fluid
-Hawk pads (probably, not sure yet)

I don't expect this to make my car stop FASTER (though my Proxes 4 stick like glue on the stop), but do think it will reduce fade and give me better pedal feel/response. The BlehmCo setup works fine, but by putting the 6th gen calipers on I will increase the pad contact area, which theoretically should disperse heat better...

I will perhaps do 3 test (weather-permitting, it is snowing right now)
- before install, will measure braking distance with the blehmco kit, and ALSO will do a quick retrofit of my OEM rotors/calipers and measure with that.
- then I will measure braking distance with the new setup....

numbers talk and bullsh1t walks.

by the way, EF9, love those vids on your homepage. can't wait till the first auto-x of the season (and first time ever in the max)

Driven EF9

so, after reading, it looks like the track edition stopped TWO feet shorter with the BBK AND the stickier tyres from 60mph... amazing.

TWO feet shorter from 100mph!!! with STICKIER TYRES THAN STOCK!!!!

reading is fundamental. stickier tyres will make your car stop sooner. of course, heat temps were drastically reduced... great for a car used on a track, hence the "TRACK EDITION"... you drive a Maxima. When's the last time you tracked your Maxima?

And? what kind of comparison is that? the s2000 was developed using a race track... the Maxima was developed using city driving.

The S2000 is a roadster... the Maxima is a family car.
the S2000 has 140 treadwear tyres.
the 2000 Maxima has 160 treadwear tyres.

hehehe, my CRX has drum brakes

i don't know too many people who drive 100mph+ on a street... and if they do, they deserve to crash into a pole/wall/semi-truck due to "brake fade".

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

I think we are missing the issue here. Yes I understand what driven ef9 is trying to say that the maxima was designed modestly as a family sedan and that any type of "BBK" upgrade on the street is useless.

however, the point I made already was that if the maxima brakes were made for what family sedans do, it sure doesn't do a good job at it. The 5th gens are running the same old brakes from 3rd gens and carrying passengers + cargo in the car is absolutely scary trying to stop at highway speeds. And i'm not talking about no insane 80, 90, or 100 mph braking, just normal 65mph stops when you see a bunch of brake lights on the horizon.

i'm not talking about the track, or brake fade, or brake feel. Its scary trying to stop a 3200 lb car + 750 lb passengers (avg. 150x5) + cargo 50lbs = 4000 lbs on brakes that haven't been updated for over a decade. IIRC 10.1 inch rotors with 1 piston caliper up front

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

100+mph is pretty easy to come by around here, hell I max my cruise control on 93mph and leave it for over a 1/2 hour on I10 West of Phnx regularly, even had it locked for around an hour once. Back in HS, senior ditch day included 130mph top speed runs in my old Probe GT on my way through Search Light to State Line, and then up to Vegas. Now, it's Tucson->Phnx->Kingman->Vegas once a month or more sometimes and I push it faster and faster, since I hate that drive. You get outside of Kingman on I93 and people blow by ME and I'm doing 90mph.

Anyways, when you've got to pass several cars/boats/semis on a two lane stretch, it's amazing how quick even a stock Maxima will break into tripple digit speeds without realizing it. I've looked down and been doing a 110-120mph as I move over. If someone comes from around a bend ahead or a CHP is picked up on the V1 and I need to duck in early, the stockers scream/vibrate, since new and I know Wilwoods don't. ******** on I10 between Phnx/Tucson that don't know what the left lane is for, means leap frogging gaps and 60-90-60 spurts quite frequently. OEMs gives up after 2 or 3 of those and start fading, especially the ones where we come to a screetching stop for some unknown reason. Coming down from Flagstaff towards Phnx on I17 at 100-110+ into some tight S curves makes the pucker factor high-n-tight and OEMs are not confidence inspiring when asked to scrub off a few mph.

Bigger brakes will consistently slow this pig faster then OEMs ever could at 80,90,100+mph or after a few canyon curves or 60-90-60 romps.

I agree with Boosts' BBK article for city cars, but my car isn't a city car and although it may not see track abuse, it sees more hwy miles then city miles. Plus, the rears will be upgraded(probably with Matts' kit), so near stock balance will be preserved meaning shorter distances, and fade will be no more. For around $2K for a front/rear BBK max, that's cheap and DEFINITELY worthwhile to me to prevent ONE close call or prevent one ticket.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

I don't see a single owner of a high performance brake system complaining.
Point is that a BBK is better than stock brakes, and it helps in all situations. Changing pads, rotors, lines, and fluid still leaves you with stock brakes. Stop arguing.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

nEvAR.....

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I guess having big brakes on a crx and still using the stock bias'd rear brakes is supposed to make you and expert on bbks? My 1" larger rear rotors address the bias problem much better than your crx did. Why do you think you hated your CRX bbk kit? Because it was had too much front bias and it caused the fronts to lock to fast.

Doesn't matter how the S2000 was designed. Brake design should be designed around the car's weight it has to handle. Along with the car's purpose. Trucks never see track duty, but they have big front brakes. Why because they are heavy and have to handle large loads. The maxima is much heavier than the S2000. And it has to handle much larger loads than the S2000. Despite all that, it uses single piston calipers and smaller rotors. Where is the logical sense in that? That's right, there isn't any. The only logical sense is that Honda woke up and smelled the coffee. Nissan cut corners where ever they could and short changed the maxima right up until the new 2k4 maxima.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

So why did the other kits kick the stock brakes ****? Because they don't do anything? Nice of you to ignore that.

Who cares? The only point you made is that the S2000 was designed properly. Like I've said 10x before. By saying the maxima was designed for city driving only illustrates how underdesigned they are.

Now you know why your bbk performed so badly.

Me either. But most drive 75-85 mph on the freeway. Plenty to overwhelm the stock brakes.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Good for them. It's the only way they would be safe.

How is that valid? Does that mean they don't need it? ANY car with 320hp, had better have some decent brakes. Doesn't matter if it's a BMW M3 or a Geo Metro.

What if they have 320hp and stock suspension? Does that make it right? Or just plain ill responsible?

Good thing I have both better tires and bbk.

Exactly why should my OEM Nissan calipers and OEM Ford 13" rotors need any more maintanance than an OEM Nissan 300zx or a Ford Cobra?

Stoptech's site and the link you commented on clearly proves that the bbk system improves the 60-0 stopping distance. It the improvement only increases and the speed increases.

Every car made today has brake bias.

You mean your bbk and stock rear drums addressed your "bias" better? If you want the piston dia, I can get them for you.

My fluids are brand new. And since my bbk is superior in the heat dissipation than stock brakes, it's not nearly and issue. I fail to see how you can lecture me in brake bias. You did nothing to your back brakes. So my bias was addressed. You chosoe to ingore it entirely.


Hmm back to the Viper. It has 600hp. Most people don't drive in the streets over your "60 mph" correct? If that is the case, why does have the appropriate big brakes? Because as you say, it was designed for high speed. Now if a 600hp Viper should have bbks, why doesn't a 600hp maxima not need bbk? That makes no sense. The maxima owner has "redesigned" the hp beyond the the limits of the car's brakes. So thus it should have the appropiate brake system.

Maybe in your fantasy world, no one drives over 60mph and no one makes emergency stops. But where I live, people drive much faster than 60mph and are not nearly as considerate.

IMHO yes it is.


Why does it have to be 30k? What does price have to do with how one drives their car? Do 30k drivers drive that much safer than 45k drivers? Makes no sense.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I mean why argue now? I personally think for most cars, the stock brakes are fine. IMHO the maxima gets the same crappy brakes since 1989. Despite the weight going up every year, Nissan didn't do anything about it unil 2004. And they still used single piston calipers. Again the maxima was the heaviest car in Nissan's line up using single piston calipers until recently. If you guys think that's fine, that's fine with me. I sure don't. I think every maxima 2000 or newer should at least have the inexpensive 2k4 brakes and rotors. That would be just fine IMHO.

I don't know about you but almost every car modder you could find would not agrue that anytime you up the power of your car, you should up the suspension and brakes. And in the maxima's specific case, more that just a marginal pad change is required. Because if you have pads that are better at stopping the car, it will tend to overload the already too small 11.nothing rotors.

One can never have too much hp or too much brake. It's been the mantra of car guys for decades. But I guess some haven't heard it, nor do they live it.

Driven EF9

kick "****"? two feet is hardly "kick ****", especially with stickier tyres.

Who cares? your whole argument is that the Maxima has inefficient brakes when the brakes work EXACTLY as they should for what the car was DESIGNED to do. The S2000 has bigger brakes cause it was DESIGNED to be tossed around on a track. the Maxima was designed to get 4 adults from point a to point b in relative comfort. The Maxima sells well cause it has a pretty good powerplant...

"so badly"... this is coming from a guy who hasn't tested anything he makes claims for? your pseudo experience < my race track experience. I know EXACTLY why my brake kit performed as it did... you have NO clue, although you'll provide advice as if you had some facts to back it up.

What's the difference between a 800hp Supra stopping from 80mph than a 320hp Supra...?

yes, it's called a proportioning valve. Great... Prop valves are designed for the factory brakes.
YOU changed those to higher capacity calipers and larger piston areas... did you consider that maybe the Prop valve needs to be addressed? Wait, you didn't, cause:
1. you have no test data to validate your claims
2. you have no working knowledge of brake systems

and when I mean "brake bias kit", i mean "adjustable brake bias kit"... but, that's my fault for not detailing that.

no, not at all. Not suggesting my CRX's brakes are better than anyone's brakes. That's be idiotic of me to suggest my brakes are more efficient when you have no data on your own brakes.

And, you have no idea what your piston diameter size is, yet you claim "perfect brake bias"? You slapped together a "big brake kit" in hopes it'll work without any research other than "will it bolt on".

Never become a scientist.

I can lecture you on brake systems cause I have EXPERIENCE and TESTING to back my claims. you have "it feels better".

I've tracked my car and do time trials. I've run from 9.5" rotors w/ OEM Calipers to 12.2" two-piece rotors and aftermarket calipers. I've tested them ALL on a race track, using TIMING EQUIPMENT and LAP TIMES to determine worth, value, and performance. I also use other vehicles as a determining factor... I know if my friend in a MR2 Spyder brakes at point A, which is 20' later than me and I put on brake kit A and i can brake at that same point, while still maintaining control... I've effectively improved my braking performance.

You have "it feels better". Great comparison data.

Read above.

But, that's the thing... you have no working knowledge or experience to provide that type of information.

You're a Lawyer trying to write Prescriptions.
You're a Car Part's Shop clerk trying to defuse a bomb.

yes, your comment makes no sense about how "most makers make multipiston calipers" when you can't even provide ONE car w/ multipiston fixed calipers. If MOST makers do, you could surely identify ONE car, if not FIVE cars.


But, back to the original question asked:
No. it doesn't. not for a street car. and jeff can argue till he's red in the face... point is, the thread author has a relatively stock Maxima (as indicated by his signature)... he won't see any difference in braking distances, unless he changes his wheel/tyre combo with your typical 60 or 80mph stop.

If he TRACKS the car... he may need to upgrade to better pads and rotors, but larger is not necessary.

and finally, Jeff, if you ever get on a race track, let me know. I want to be there in my 2000 automatic SE w/ stock brakes passing you
Hey, I'll be at CalSpeedway on March 12th....i'll bring the CRX..it has rear drums, poor brake bias, and only 158whp.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Yup, you tested your crx bbk and didn't like it . Reason = you put too much front bias with the front bbk and stock rear brakes. Of course you didn't see any better results.
Is that assesment correct or not? You can test until you are blue in the face, the results will be the same until you correct the frt/rear bias.

Again, regardless of how the maxima was DESIGNED, it's clear that some here don't drive it that way. So you can agrue all day on how the car was designed. Does not matter as people don't drive it the way it was designed. Again, a point you continue to ignore as it's the only way you have a leg to stand on.

He already has 18" wheels and good tires. He can use the bbk. Especially when is suspension is also upgraded. Only thing near stock is the engine. Which again has more power than the puny stock brakes can handle. Even if he uses the 255hp how it was DESIGNED to do. And how Nissan markets the maxima.
Here is his sig:
Epacy
2002 Maxima SE Glacier Pearl
18" Mille Miglia Evo 5's/Pirelli P-Zero's, Tein H-Tech/Tokico Illuminas, Stillen Intake, Otto FSB, Console and Ignition LED mod/Polargs, Pioneer Organic EL deck/Infinity Kappa Components & 3way's/2 12" DVC Eclispe subs w/Eclipse Amp/Re-wired Fogs/Max Hyperground/NISMO Oil & Radiator Cap/PIAA Wipers/MOMO Combat EVO Silver

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Kam since you don't have data to back up your claim that the front only BBK *INCREASES* stopping distance, try not to pick this apart too bad because it would be pointless.

At least in this ONE instance, this front only BBK did show it makes a noticeable improvement. He went from an average around 136.2ft down to "112.789ft" from ~60mph and from a before best of 127ft down to 108ft.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....&highlight=BBK

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Also, in regards to "the numbers" for keeping front/rear bias near factory designed intent by adding a REAR BBK to complement the front BBK, I'll let resident .org guru Matt99SE explain:

http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...5&postcount=19

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

It's also clear that people are NOT driving their cars as they were designed.

Maxima is not degined to be tracked, but someone here just challenged me to a race on a track with maximas
CRX was not designed to be tracked (it's an economy car), but someone is tracking it.
Umm Q45 was designed to be a luxury people hauler. But wha?? Is someone auto-x that thing???
So again, you can talk about how cars were designed. Too bad many don't drive their cars how they were designed. They also mod their cars BEYOND the design. So mod one area, one should mod the others. But I guess some feel that 600hp and 11.puny rotors are a good mix.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

Bring your great maxima with excellent factory brakes to Fontana, and I'll bring a few of our maximas out. We can even bring a video camera to show you getting owned. Wanna challenge 4 5speeds with AP's?

MAX2000JP

How much money are you willing to bet I am not that greatest track driver, average at best. I am sure if it's enough money, I can call a friend up from Phoenix who would be willing to show you a thing or two. Good brakes don't make up for so-so driving.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Name a place and time...I have a SCCA Rally car racer/Honda driving instructor/race team driver friend here in Tucson I'd let drive my car.

Actually, he just moved, so I'll have to see what he's up to.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Good point. So it begs the question as to why Driven EF9 feels the need to challenge me. Even though the results either way would not prove anyone's point either way.

Maybe I should challenge him to engine swaps. I'm good at those

MAX2000JP

I know some people that could, if the wanted, outdrive the stock brakes on pretty much any factory sports car. Does that mean that the C6 has poorly designed brakes, nope. The Maxima OEM brakes are average when you compare the stopping distances that magazines originally recorded.

Again, for 99% of Maximas on the road, the OEM brakes are well capable of stopping the vehicle.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

The speeds and abuse that it would take to overdrive those brakes is WAY more than it would take to outdrive the maxima brakes. I've never had a problem with OEM brakes if they were designed correctly. Then again, I never said the C6 brakes were not up to par.
But unfortunately, the maxima brakes are too small for the weight it must endure. You can easily have 4,000lbs inside. Would you trust the maxima brakes on the freeway with 4,000lbs of luggage and people in the car? Or would you be now driving the car at maybe 30% because the brakes are now the overwhelmly weakest link in this picture?

Again, IMHO maxima brakes are merely adequate for a 100% stock car. But for the purposes of this conversation inside this site where many of the maximas are modded, the maxima brakes suddenly become less than adequate.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, they'll stop it, just not very well especially if pushed.

Anyways, a greater percent HERE, ie enthusiasts, wouldn't agree the OEM brakes are "capable" of anything other then warping the stock rotors after a few emergency stops.

MAX2000JP

I will probably be out there in a couple of months looking at real estate, but not with my Maxima. My friend is an instructor at Bondurant, so possibly he could take both cars out for some timed runs around one of the tracks there.

MAX2000JP

I am an enthusiast, have tracked my Maxima, and drive hard. The reason why the OEM brakes are fine for me is I choose to drive hard wisely. I don't drive aggressively in heavy traffic. I use the roads less traveled (when driving hard), so there are less cars and obstacles to worry about. I don't street race anymore; I used to when I was younger, but it doesn't do anything for me anymore. If I am in traffic, I follow the flow, sometimes at 75+ mph, but I leave a gap in between my car and the car in front of me. I feel perfectly safe using the OEM brakes, but they are incompetent on the track.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I drive roads with little/no traffic and don't "street race", yet I find them inadequate for pushing moderately, let alone at the limits of traction.

I drive aggressively when the time/place permits, but even in traffic, I still find the need for more brake.

So, in your OPINION your brakes are "fine", in my OPINION they are not. See the point yet? You can't claim a blanket statement like that, because you have no clue how others drive or push their car.

Point is, OEMs can be improved and used/enjoyed, so stating pads/fluid/lines is enough for everyone who drives or even MOST of those who drive HERE is false.

MAX2000JP

I have had 5 adults in my car before and the car is weighted down a ton. The acceleration, braking, and handling are all affected by the added weight. Any car, no matter how large the brakes are, will take a longer distance to brake if weight is added to the vehicle. For an enthusiast who mods their car, the first step is to change the pads, lines, and tires in order to improve the braking system. I am willing to bet that with the above "mods" to the braking system, you will not reach 80% of the braking systems limits on the street

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well if you drive slow enough, 9" rotors would be fine too. If you drove right, you can barely use 20% of the car's braking capacity. Doesn't mean that the car's brakes are designed right. Just means that particular person chooses to drive well under the brake's capacity. And well under the car's engine and suspension capacity as well.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I have rather large steep hill near my house. On the way to the freeway, I go down this hill. I could get the stock brakes beyond their 80% capacity everyday if I wished. I say that if someone has good working brakes in the 1st place, pads and lines woun't significantly help the braking system. It can't because you are still stuck with the small rotors. Small improvement yes. Enough to overcome the fact that it still has too small of rotors, IMHO no. If you found some pads that didn't warp your rotors, then IMHO you found some pads that didn't heat up the rotors as much. Since heat is a function of how well the brakes are working, you didn't find pads that improved your braking. You just found some that didn't warp your rotors. Since when would one even wish to be at even 80% of the stock maxima brakes? One would be almost at the point of standing on them to keep them there.

I recommend getting the rotors cyro-treated. Bill has had good success and he still gets to use agressive pads if he wishes.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

My cousin is good friends with F1 driver Micheal Schumacher (really). I'll have him drive my maxims

enough of the "e-racing"...it's just as as e-thuggery. IF and WHEN you guys ALL meet at the track and run against each other...THEN you can talk some trash. Otherwise it's all theoretical banter.

And to make it easy for everyone else who's a "third party" in this discussion, here's a synopsis of what all of you are saying (believe it or not, you are all really agreeing on a basic level)

1. for the average joe non-car-enthusiast who's driving his maxima to work like a regular person in a family sedan, the stock brakes are just fine
2. for someone who drives the maxima like a sportscar, "assertively" (as I do) but not *****-out, a full-blown BBK is not necessary, though some brake upgrades are probably in order (lines, pads, or 6th-gen rotors/calipers).
3. for someone who takes the car to a road course track, where you are doing frequent high-speed-to-low-speed-to-high-speed evolutions, a BBK is more or less required. Lower-speed auto-x does not require a BBK.
4. for someone who is driving like an IDIOT, going twice the speed limit most of the time, endangering other peoples' lives, and frequently having to do multiple 100mph-to-0 stops to avoid automotive disasters, a BBK is not all you need. You also need a revoked license. I'm all for spirited driving, and ocassionally crank it up on some high-speed highways....but if you are keeping correct distance from other cars and "looking ahead" you should not have problems stopping..

by the way, although I have no "scientific" context for braking discussion or safety discussion - I DID live in Europe for several years and spent MANY MANY MANY hours on the German autobahn and Italian autostrade /tangenziale....driving consistently FASTER than probably any of you have on American roads for long distances. In my 80's-vintage Lancia Delta Evolution. I AVERAGED 115 mph on a trip from Weisbaden, Germany to Naples, Italy (about 20 hours of team driving), with NO braking problems and no close calls that made me say "damn, I need to upgrade my brakes"

The Delta had 10" front rotors (single-piston calipers) and 9" rear rotors, and a curb weight of almost 3400 lbs (thaks, AWD).....so it's a valid comparison to the maxima talking about weight vs. brakes size.



And NO, I am neither bragging nor challenging anyone to a race!!!!!! Just putting some context in

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

...and if you drive an X-Terra, you're not going to take a hard corner at 70mph like a sports car, because the damn thing will flip over....doesn't mean the vehicle has a "faulty center of mass" or poor suspension.

it means, you drive to the ability of your vehicle if you want to be safe. If you are going to drive a maxima beyond it's STOCK abilities, then of course you will have to upgrade things like brakes and suspension

MAX2000JP

Every magazine test I have read of the 2K-2K1 never mentioned poor brakes. I would like to ask the people whom say the OEM brakes aren't fine, what is your driving experience. Have you ever auto-xed your Maxima or tracked it? I have on a track that is brutal on brakes. I will never get my brakes/tires up to the temperature I had them on the track while street driving. I used the OEM brakes once with pads and the car never had faded to a point to where I couldn't brake enough before turn-in. I was outdriving the suspension(way too much terminal understeer) and tires; If I ever went again in my Maxima, I would probably run an r-compound. I could have used a BBK also on the track to brake deeper and improve my lap times. When I changed the pads back home, they were melted and the right front had about a 1" hole in the middle due to the heat. I could never achieve this high of temperature on the street.

MAX2000JP

Pads and lines won't significantly improve the braking system? Most HP pads have a more aggressive compound that offers more torque(bite). The drawback is that they are harsher on the rotors. You guys are using extremes to try and prove your point. What are you doing, going down the hill at WOT while on the brakes?

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...ads&perfCode=S

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

IMHO, you can drive the maxima at it's engine and suspension capabilities. But IMHO that would be beyond the brakes capabilities. Some think that is fine because they never approach that point. Like I've said before. In 1989 the maxima has 165hp. In 2002 the maxima weighs more and has close to 265hp. Same basic brakes. If you think that's acceptable, so be it. I tend to think makers should improve the brakes and they up the weight and hp of the car. That is common sense. That is way I've said the 2000+ maximas should have the 2k4 brakes.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Where exactly did I say that?? That is incorrect. For one, I never said that. Two, I wouldn't need 1/2 of wot to accomplish it. Why is the hill extreme? It's there. Everyone who chooses to go down it must use their brakes to stop at the bottom. But most just crawl down in a safe controlled manner. Especially the maximas. j/k