Big brake Kit
02-25-2005, 10:25 AM
#161
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
IMHO, you can drive the maxima at it's engine and suspension capabilities. But IMHO that would be beyond the brakes capabilities. Some think that is fine because they never approach that point.
02-25-2005, 10:28 AM
#162
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Where exactly did I say that?? That is incorrect. For one, I never said that. Two, I wouldn't need 1/2 of wot to accomplish it. Why is the hill extreme? It's there. Everyone who chooses to go down it must use their brakes to stop at the bottom. But most just crawl down in a safe controlled manner. Especially the maximas. j/k 
02-25-2005, 10:34 AM
#163
Okay that is fine to say that. But unfortunately that doesn't answer my point or illustrate yours. So you think since no one should be driving in that manner, it's okay to have a car that's that's features an underdesigned braking system? Maxima or not? Because that is what you are implying.
Back to the Viper. It has great hp, great suspension and hence great brakes. All things are in porportion to each other. Regardless of what it was designed for, all parts are equal. Now, if what you say is true, then the Viper does NOT need brakes that match it's hp/suspension. Because no one should be driving like that. True no one should be driving like that. BUT it didn't stop the maker from designing the brakes in relation to the hp and suspension. And that's all I have repeatly asked for. If the maxima brakes were constantly upgraded (as it's hp was), I'd be happy and satisfied. But it was not. Close to 100 more hp, but the same basic brakes. Regardless if the owner of that 100 more hp uses it or not, the brakes should match what the engine is capable of. If not, there is really no point of having that extra hp.
Back to the Viper. It has great hp, great suspension and hence great brakes. All things are in porportion to each other. Regardless of what it was designed for, all parts are equal. Now, if what you say is true, then the Viper does NOT need brakes that match it's hp/suspension. Because no one should be driving like that. True no one should be driving like that. BUT it didn't stop the maker from designing the brakes in relation to the hp and suspension. And that's all I have repeatly asked for. If the maxima brakes were constantly upgraded (as it's hp was), I'd be happy and satisfied. But it was not. Close to 100 more hp, but the same basic brakes. Regardless if the owner of that 100 more hp uses it or not, the brakes should match what the engine is capable of. If not, there is really no point of having that extra hp.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
You won't even come close to the true limits of the suspension on the street, nor the brakes I could argue. If you come close, you are an idiot for trying and shouldn't have a license.
02-25-2005, 10:36 AM
#164
Correct. But more aggressive pads would just heat up the rotors faster than before. The BBK not only address the distance issue but the fade issue. Much better than pads on the stock rotors would.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
I am sure what you experienced was brake fade, which could be solved by first pad, or if you want to spend the money a BBK.
02-25-2005, 10:41 AM
#165
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
IMHO, you can drive the maxima at it's engine and suspension capabilities. But IMHO that would be beyond the brakes capabilities. Some think that is fine because they never approach that point. Like I've said before. In 1989 the maxima has 165hp. In 2002 the maxima weighs more and has close to 265hp. Same basic brakes. If you think that's acceptable, so be it. I tend to think makers should improve the brakes and they up the weight and hp of the car. That is common sense. That is way I've said the 2000+ maximas should have the 2k4 brakes.
I still must disagree that there is NO relation to horsepower.....by that logic, my wife's Mazda 3S (160hp) should have bigger brakes than the 3I model (140hp)???? The 3.5 Alti should have bigger brakes than the 2.5 Alti?
WEIGHT = very relevant to brakes
HP = not relevant at all (unless your 200hp allows you to go to 130mph and 260 hp allows you to go to 140mph, and you are doing stops from TOP SPEED, which almost nobody does)...
02-25-2005, 10:47 AM
#166
Originally Posted by irish44j
I still must disagree that there is NO relation to horsepower.....by that logic, my wife's Mazda 3S (160hp) should have bigger brakes than the 3I model (140hp)???? The 3.5 Alti should have bigger brakes than the 2.5 Alti?
WEIGHT = very relevant to brakes
HP = not relevant at all (unless your 200hp allows you to go to 130mph and 260 hp allows you to go to 140mph, and you are doing stops from TOP SPEED, which almost nobody does)...
WEIGHT = very relevant to brakes
HP = not relevant at all (unless your 200hp allows you to go to 130mph and 260 hp allows you to go to 140mph, and you are doing stops from TOP SPEED, which almost nobody does)...
But other have said because the S2000 is a sports car, it should have bigger brakes.
My contention about hp is more hp = more capability to reach higher speeds quicker. And the capability to travel at those speeds more often than a low hp car. Thus better brakes should be installed. Take the C6 that everyone likes to mention. I don't think it weighs more (if not less) than a maxima. But it has a MUCH better braking system than a maxima does.
02-25-2005, 10:48 AM
#167
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Okay that is fine to say that. But unfortunately that doesn't answer my point or illustrate yours. So you think since no one should be driving in that manner, it's okay to have a car that's that's features an underdesigned braking system? Maxima or not? Because that is what you are implying.
Back to the Viper. It has great hp, great suspension and hence great brakes. All things are in porportion to each other. Regardless of what it was designed for, all parts are equal. Now, if what you say is true, then the Viper does NOT need brakes that match it's hp/suspension. Because no one should be driving like that. True no one should be driving like that. BUT it didn't stop the maker from designing the brakes in relation to the hp and suspension. And that's all I have repeatly asked for. If the maxima brakes were constantly upgraded (as it's hp was), I'd be happy and satisfied. But it was not. Close to 100 more hp, but the same basic brakes. Regardless if the owner of that 100 more hp uses it or not, the brakes should match what the engine is capable of. If not, there is really no point of having that extra hp.
Back to the Viper. It has great hp, great suspension and hence great brakes. All things are in porportion to each other. Regardless of what it was designed for, all parts are equal. Now, if what you say is true, then the Viper does NOT need brakes that match it's hp/suspension. Because no one should be driving like that. True no one should be driving like that. BUT it didn't stop the maker from designing the brakes in relation to the hp and suspension. And that's all I have repeatly asked for. If the maxima brakes were constantly upgraded (as it's hp was), I'd be happy and satisfied. But it was not. Close to 100 more hp, but the same basic brakes. Regardless if the owner of that 100 more hp uses it or not, the brakes should match what the engine is capable of. If not, there is really no point of having that extra hp.
02-25-2005, 10:51 AM
#168
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Take the C6 that everyone likes to mention. I don't think it weighs more (if not less) than a maxima. But it has a MUCH better braking system than a maxima does.
02-25-2005, 10:54 AM
#169
So, let's say the maxima had the power of the Viper (extreme example but it works). Since the maxima was "designed" for the family, even if it had the power of the Viper, it only needs the small brakes it currently has??? Again, that is what your implying.
Are you saying that regardless of the hp and weight of the vehicle, it it was only "designed" for the street, it should only have xx type of brakes?? Again, that is your implication. And that implication does not make sense. I never said it has to have 19" rotors or 10 piston calipers. Only that the brakes be designed around what it has to haul down.
Are you saying that regardless of the hp and weight of the vehicle, it it was only "designed" for the street, it should only have xx type of brakes?? Again, that is your implication. And that implication does not make sense. I never said it has to have 19" rotors or 10 piston calipers. Only that the brakes be designed around what it has to haul down.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
URGH!!! I thought we went over this before. The Viper was designed with large brakes from the factory because it was designed with track use in mind. The Maxima was designed to drive the "track" to the office of grocery store with the kids yelling in the back. Again, it's not a valid comparison at all.
02-25-2005, 10:59 AM
#170
I know what the C6 brakes are and why they have outstanding brakes. I also know why it was designed for them. But again, it doesn't prove your point just to point out the "design". Other than to point out that the C6 has the correct brakes for it's weight/hp/suspension. No one said the brakes on the C6 were too big, too small or too whatever.
Irish said HP was NOT an issue. Only weight. If that was the case, the C6 would NOT have such big brakes as it doesn't weigh that much. BUT despite the C6's weight, it has very powerfull brakes. Why? Because as you say, it's design (which includes hp, weight, suspension) dictates it. As well as what the car was designed for.
Irish said HP was NOT an issue. Only weight. If that was the case, the C6 would NOT have such big brakes as it doesn't weigh that much. BUT despite the C6's weight, it has very powerfull brakes. Why? Because as you say, it's design (which includes hp, weight, suspension) dictates it. As well as what the car was designed for.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
Jeff I don't mind having a technical debate with you, but this point is silly. The C6 was designed and engineered on the track. I wish I could show you the TV show I saw that highlighted how the C6 was shipped to Germany's Nurburbring to test out the chassis and brakes. "Team Covettes" engineers swapped out different brake ducts and pad compounds to get the right feel and performance from the braking system. The C6 is a street car, but it was designed to be competent on the track.
02-25-2005, 11:05 AM
#171
Originally Posted by irish44j
My cousin is good friends with F1 driver Micheal Schumacher (really). I'll have him drive my maxims 
enough of the "e-racing"...it's just as
as e-thuggery. IF and WHEN you guys ALL meet at the track and run against each other...THEN you can talk some trash. Otherwise it's all theoretical banter.
enough of the "e-racing"...it's just as
as e-thuggery. IF and WHEN you guys ALL meet at the track and run against each other...THEN you can talk some trash. Otherwise it's all theoretical banter.Why not continue to foolish false logic that wouldn't prove anything anyways?
Get Schumacher in your Maxima and I'll pay $100. I could have my guy in a car in a hour or two, you couldn't and most likely MAX2000JPs' "friend in Phnx" couldn't either. Anyways, it would prove NOTHING.
And to make it easy for everyone else who's a "third party" in this discussion, here's a synopsis of what all of you are saying (believe it or not, you are all really agreeing on a basic level)
1. for the average joe non-car-enthusiast who's driving his maxima to work like a regular person in a family sedan, the stock brakes are just fine
1. for the average joe non-car-enthusiast who's driving his maxima to work like a regular person in a family sedan, the stock brakes are just fine
2. for someone who drives the maxima like a sportscar, "assertively" (as I do) but not *****-out, a full-blown BBK is not necessary, though some brake upgrades are probably in order (lines, pads, or 6th-gen rotors/calipers).
3. for someone who takes the car to a road course track, where you are doing frequent high-speed-to-low-speed-to-high-speed evolutions, a BBK is more or less required. Lower-speed auto-x does not require a BBK.
4. for someone who is driving like an IDIOT, going twice the speed limit most of the time, endangering other peoples' lives, and frequently having to do multiple 100mph-to-0 stops to avoid automotive disasters, a BBK is not all you need. You also need a revoked license. I'm all for spirited driving, and ocassionally crank it up on some high-speed highways....but if you are keeping correct distance from other cars and "looking ahead" you should not have problems stopping..
by the way, although I have no "scientific" context for braking discussion or safety discussion - I DID live in Europe for several years and spent MANY MANY MANY hours on the German autobahn and Italian autostrade /tangenziale....driving consistently FASTER than probably any of you have on American roads for long distances. In my 80's-vintage Lancia Delta Evolution. I AVERAGED 115 mph on a trip from Weisbaden, Germany to Naples, Italy (about 20 hours of team driving), with NO braking problems and no close calls that made me say "damn, I need to upgrade my brakes"
The Delta had 10" front rotors (single-piston calipers) and 9" rear rotors, and a curb weight of almost 3400 lbs (thaks, AWD).....so it's a valid comparison to the maxima talking about weight vs. brakes size.
The Delta had 10" front rotors (single-piston calipers) and 9" rear rotors, and a curb weight of almost 3400 lbs (thaks, AWD).....so it's a valid comparison to the maxima talking about weight vs. brakes size.
And NO, I am neither bragging nor challenging anyone to a race!!!!!! Just putting some context in
02-25-2005, 11:12 AM
#172
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I know what the C6 brakes are and why they have outstanding brakes. I also know why it was designed for them. But again, it doesn't prove your point just to point out the "design". Other than to point out that the C6 has the correct brakes for it's weight/hp/suspension. No one said the brakes on the C6 were too big, too small or too whatever.
Irish said HP was NOT an issue. Only weight. If that was the case, the C6 would NOT have such big brakes as it doesn't weigh that much. BUT despite the C6's weight, it has very powerfull brakes. Why? Because as you say, it's design (which includes hp, weight, suspension) dictates it. As well as what the car was designed for.
Irish said HP was NOT an issue. Only weight. If that was the case, the C6 would NOT have such big brakes as it doesn't weigh that much. BUT despite the C6's weight, it has very powerfull brakes. Why? Because as you say, it's design (which includes hp, weight, suspension) dictates it. As well as what the car was designed for.
As for Irish's statement I *THINK* he meant....It doesn't matter if the same car has 90 hp or 5000hp, it will brake the same from 60-0 or 80-0. I believe thats why he said HP doesnt matter.
02-25-2005, 11:14 AM
#173
Were you driving loaded to full capacity? No.
Were you on a long downgrade with no reprieve for the brakes to cool? No.
Were you traveling the same speeds that you'd have been with bigger better fade free brakes? No.
Were you attaining the same times you could have with a BBK? No.
Exactly, you prematurely destroyed the brakes, which showed they weren't up to the task you put them through. Yes, it was more brutal then you could probably inflict on the street, however they also didn't last as long as we expect/depend.
I and some of us expect longer life and better performance then OEMs can support, therefore improvements are warranted. The level of improvement/cost is in the eye of the owner, which you can't know enough about to accurately blanket statment/group us all into.
Were you on a long downgrade with no reprieve for the brakes to cool? No.
Were you traveling the same speeds that you'd have been with bigger better fade free brakes? No.
Were you attaining the same times you could have with a BBK? No.
Exactly, you prematurely destroyed the brakes, which showed they weren't up to the task you put them through. Yes, it was more brutal then you could probably inflict on the street, however they also didn't last as long as we expect/depend.
I and some of us expect longer life and better performance then OEMs can support, therefore improvements are warranted. The level of improvement/cost is in the eye of the owner, which you can't know enough about to accurately blanket statment/group us all into.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
Every magazine test I have read of the 2K-2K1 never mentioned poor brakes. I would like to ask the people whom say the OEM brakes aren't fine, what is your driving experience. Have you ever auto-xed your Maxima or tracked it? I have on a track that is brutal on brakes. I will never get my brakes/tires up to the temperature I had them on the track while street driving. I used the OEM brakes once with pads and the car never had faded to a point to where I couldn't brake enough before turn-in. I was outdriving the suspension(way too much terminal understeer) and tires; If I ever went again in my Maxima, I would probably run an r-compound. I could have used a BBK also on the track to brake deeper and improve my lap times. When I changed the pads back home, they were melted and the right front had about a 1" hole in the middle due to the heat. I could never achieve this high of temperature on the street.
02-25-2005, 11:18 AM
#174
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
How many Maxima's were designed for the track??? 0. There are a few cars here that are daily drivers and track cars on the weekend, a BBK would be great for these cars, even though on the street you wouldn't use its potential.
As for Irish's statement I *THINK* he meant....It doesn't matter if the same car has 90 hp or 5000hp, it will brake the same from 60-0 or 80-0. I believe thats why he said HP doesnt matter.
02-25-2005, 11:18 AM
#175
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
So, let's say the maxima had the power of the Viper (extreme example but it works). Since the maxima was "designed" for the family, even if it had the power of the Viper, it only needs the small brakes it currently has??? Again, that is what your implying.
Are you saying that regardless of the hp and weight of the vehicle, it it was only "designed" for the street, it should only have xx type of brakes?? Again, that is your implication. And that implication does not make sense. I never said it has to have 19" rotors or 10 piston calipers. Only that the brakes be designed around what it has to haul down.
Are you saying that regardless of the hp and weight of the vehicle, it it was only "designed" for the street, it should only have xx type of brakes?? Again, that is your implication. And that implication does not make sense. I never said it has to have 19" rotors or 10 piston calipers. Only that the brakes be designed around what it has to haul down.
02-25-2005, 11:22 AM
#176
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I defer to the viper example again. And I'll say it again, a 5000hp car should have much better brakes than a 90hp car. Despite it's weight or it's "design". Why is that so hard to grasp? Most car makers understand this very well.
02-25-2005, 11:24 AM
#177
Maybe, however the BBK could easily be used BEYOND the OEMs potential and therefore be a warranted upgrade.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
There are a few cars here that are daily drivers and track cars on the weekend, a BBK would be great for these cars, even though on the street you wouldn't use its potential.
02-25-2005, 11:25 AM
#178
I never said the maxima was a decent track car. Only that it should have brakes appropriate for it's weight and hp. Simple.
You really think Nissan's cost cutting though 2000 would actually allow them to upgrade the brakes if they thought they could get away with the stock small brakes? I thought the fact that Nissan used the same basic brakes from even the 2nd maxima would make that clear. I don't know, warping rotors don't seem like Nissan is really concerned with the maxima brakes too much. Owners have to put on rotor friendly pads (that aren't performance oriented) to get them to not warp so easy. I see that as a basic design problem.
You really think Nissan's cost cutting though 2000 would actually allow them to upgrade the brakes if they thought they could get away with the stock small brakes? I thought the fact that Nissan used the same basic brakes from even the 2nd maxima would make that clear. I don't know, warping rotors don't seem like Nissan is really concerned with the maxima brakes too much. Owners have to put on rotor friendly pads (that aren't performance oriented) to get them to not warp so easy. I see that as a basic design problem.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
It depeneds on how you use the vehicle...As I stated earlier, a Maxima is a family sedan. It will never be a competent race car, not will it shatter any 1/4 records. We are dealing with an inferior drive layout, poor weight distribution, etc. That doesn't mean that you can't try and compensate for the disadvantages. I learned that if I wanted a more competent performance car, I would have to sell my Maxima. Hence, I ordered a new GT. As a street car, the OEM vented disc brakes are capable of braking safely on the higway(within reasonable limits of the law). If they weren't capable, #1 Nissan wouldn't have put them on the car for liability reasons, #2 the NTSB would have numerous complaints from consumers.
02-25-2005, 11:29 AM
#179
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
It's not hard to grasp; your original point was the OEM's aren't competent for street driving. If you are driving within the law and limits of your driving capabilities,
Within the law and with in my driving abilities does not = designed properly for the hp/weight of the car.
THIS IS FALSE. A lot of manufacturers, such as BMW and Porsche put larger brakes on their cars because of their image and plus they are engineered to a much higher degree.
02-25-2005, 11:31 AM
#180
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Here is some actual testing I found: A 1.6' reduction in braking distance from 60-0 isn't that great. Doesn't prove your point that the stock brakes aren't competent, in fact they performed well.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may03/altima_brake/
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may03/altima_brake/
02-25-2005, 11:35 AM
#181
Right up until the 5th run which shows a 6 ft difference. 4th run shows a 4ft difference. 2nd run is worse. 1st run is same. The 5th and 6th runs illustrate it the best. Of course this is an Altima.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
Here is some actual testing I found: A 1.6' reduction in braking distance from 60-0 isn't that great. Doesn't prove your point that the stock brakes aren't competent, in fact they performed well.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may03/altima_brake/
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may03/altima_brake/
02-25-2005, 11:37 AM
#182
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Yes I said the OEM maxima brakes aren't designed for the hp and weight. And since maximas are driven on the street, I'll say it again.
Within the law and with in my driving abilities does not = designed properly for the hp/weight of the car.
You are kidding me? So the C6 brakes were designed for the track. But all the high hp BMW and Porsche brakes were designed for image? Again, not making sense. BMW and Porsche have long been applauded for their excellent braking systems. And for making braking systems appropriate for the hp/weight they have to handle. Their engines/chassis/suspensions are all engineered to a higher degree. Hence their excellent braking systems.
Within the law and with in my driving abilities does not = designed properly for the hp/weight of the car.
You are kidding me? So the C6 brakes were designed for the track. But all the high hp BMW and Porsche brakes were designed for image? Again, not making sense. BMW and Porsche have long been applauded for their excellent braking systems. And for making braking systems appropriate for the hp/weight they have to handle. Their engines/chassis/suspensions are all engineered to a higher degree. Hence their excellent braking systems.
BMW- The Ultimate driving machine
The BMW and Porsche "image" is of high performance track worthy cars, they design their braking systems to be able to stand up to the Nurburgring. Again, I don't think you know how cars are engineered and how manufacturers work. The Maxima wasn't engineered to race around the Nurburgring, rather as a daily driver to get comfortably from point a to b. Nissan used brakes that were slightly better than average and that would work well in everyday situations. Again, where are the NTSB inquiries into the Maxima's braking system due to numerous accidents caused by poor brakes? I haven't seen any and until I do, you cannt say the OEM brakes don't work well on the street.
02-25-2005, 11:37 AM
#183
I've driven an Altima, I wouldn't change them. They are "fine" for my driving style.
Either way, the 2K4 setup would last longer without warping or fading, which depending on how a person drives it, might be worthwhile.
Either way, the 2K4 setup would last longer without warping or fading, which depending on how a person drives it, might be worthwhile.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
Here is some actual testing I found: A 1.6' reduction in braking distance from 60-0 isn't that great. Doesn't prove your point that the stock brakes aren't competent, in fact they performed well.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may03/altima_brake/
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may03/altima_brake/
02-25-2005, 11:39 AM
#184
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Depends on if you like eating through stock components after a lap or two and replacing parts all day long.
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
AGAIN, my driving style and others, warrant BBK and that's nowhere near "endangering other peoples' lives".
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Mmmkay.
Good, it's just stupid and would prove nothing here.
Good, it's just stupid and would prove nothing here.
02-25-2005, 11:39 AM
#185
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Right up until the 5th run which shows a 6 ft difference. 4th run shows a 4ft difference. 2nd run is worse. 1st run is same. The 5th and 6th runs illustrate it the best. Of course this is an Altima.
02-25-2005, 11:43 AM
#186
You sure about that?
At least in this ONE instance, this front only BBK did show it makes a noticeable improvement. He went from an average around 136.2ft down to "112.789ft" from ~60mph and from a before best of 127ft down to 108ft.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread...7&highlight=BBK
At least in this ONE instance, this front only BBK did show it makes a noticeable improvement. He went from an average around 136.2ft down to "112.789ft" from ~60mph and from a before best of 127ft down to 108ft.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread...7&highlight=BBK
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
The Altima has the same weight and nearly the same power as a 2K-2K1 5th gen. How many times in a row do you do 5 full force 60-0 stops in daily driving, I would honestly say that percentage is near 0%. This test basically disproves your opinion that the OEM brakes aren't good for street driving.
02-25-2005, 11:44 AM
#188
Originally Posted by irish44j
Let's assume most people DON'T like eating through stock components after a lap or two
someone's getting defensive here. Did I say YOU were endangering other peoples' lives? I was speaking in general terms...calm down.
what it proves is that a car, heavier than a maxima, with SMALLER stock rotors, works just fine. So if this is irrelevant and would prove nothing...then maxima brakes have nothing do do with SIZE and are simply a poor design, NOT a "too-small" design....
My point was that the Altima for WHATEVER reasons has very impressive brakes vs. the OEM Maxima and that improving over them is probably a feat.
02-25-2005, 11:48 AM
#189
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
You sure about that?
At least in this ONE instance, this front only BBK did show it makes a noticeable improvement. He went from an average around 136.2ft down to "112.789ft" from ~60mph and from a before best of 127ft down to 108ft.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread...7&highlight=BBK
At least in this ONE instance, this front only BBK did show it makes a noticeable improvement. He went from an average around 136.2ft down to "112.789ft" from ~60mph and from a before best of 127ft down to 108ft.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread...7&highlight=BBK
Is that the one using the G-tech? Cause we all know that the G-Tech is highly accurate
Also, the conditions were different, so the test isn't valid. The difference between this test and the NPM test show to me that the test coducted by NPM is more accurate.
02-25-2005, 11:49 AM
#190
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Originally Posted by irish44j
while you're all at it, why not install a roof-mounted air brake to help you stop even faster. Hey, it works well for F-14's
02-25-2005, 11:50 AM
#191
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....&highlight=BBK
OK...I have had my BBK for about 1 full month now and figured it would be time for a review.
Wear:
Today I pulled it apart, to see how things were wearing and if anything funky was going on. Right now I have a "ridge" on my pads at the very top, as if the full pad is not on the rotor. Not sure what long term effect of this is. Maybe quicker pad consumption? That seems to be the only usage negative that I can come up with so far. No squeaking (I used the Nissan 300Z shim kit and any squeaks are now history). I also used anti-seaze grease as my anti-squeak grease
Performance:
Well, lets say that I spanked out a personal best of 108ft. 60-0.
I was using the same road, same conditions (as much as possible...atmospherice temp was 10 degrees more) and tires had accumlated 380 miles since last test. I was averaging stops of 112.789 with the new equipment.
BUT, tires are the limit of the connection to the road...I had to really learn how to modulate the pedal to get the stops down that far. Just cant romp them like I used to w/o the anti-locks getting all happy. I was drifting into higher stopping number becuase the ABS was kickin.
Pedal feel is GREAT. I put on the SS lines and its is FIRMER than stock with rubber lines. I think this is the BEST part of the whole kit. No more mushy crappy yucky Nissan pedal. I really think most would get a better feel just doing the SS lines.
Also no fade. I was pounding these brakes and for sure, they "could" be tracked happily. I dont track so thats pure suggestion/assumption.
OK...I have had my BBK for about 1 full month now and figured it would be time for a review.
Wear:
Today I pulled it apart, to see how things were wearing and if anything funky was going on. Right now I have a "ridge" on my pads at the very top, as if the full pad is not on the rotor. Not sure what long term effect of this is. Maybe quicker pad consumption? That seems to be the only usage negative that I can come up with so far. No squeaking (I used the Nissan 300Z shim kit and any squeaks are now history). I also used anti-seaze grease as my anti-squeak grease
Performance:
Well, lets say that I spanked out a personal best of 108ft. 60-0.
I was using the same road, same conditions (as much as possible...atmospherice temp was 10 degrees more) and tires had accumlated 380 miles since last test. I was averaging stops of 112.789 with the new equipment.
BUT, tires are the limit of the connection to the road...I had to really learn how to modulate the pedal to get the stops down that far. Just cant romp them like I used to w/o the anti-locks getting all happy. I was drifting into higher stopping number becuase the ABS was kickin.
Pedal feel is GREAT. I put on the SS lines and its is FIRMER than stock with rubber lines. I think this is the BEST part of the whole kit. No more mushy crappy yucky Nissan pedal. I really think most would get a better feel just doing the SS lines.
Also no fade. I was pounding these brakes and for sure, they "could" be tracked happily. I dont track so thats pure suggestion/assumption.
02-25-2005, 11:56 AM
#193
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....&highlight=BBK
OK...I have had my BBK for about 1 full month now and figured it would be time for a review.
Wear:
Today I pulled it apart, to see how things were wearing and if anything funky was going on. Right now I have a "ridge" on my pads at the very top, as if the full pad is not on the rotor. Not sure what long term effect of this is. Maybe quicker pad consumption? That seems to be the only usage negative that I can come up with so far. No squeaking (I used the Nissan 300Z shim kit and any squeaks are now history). I also used anti-seaze grease as my anti-squeak grease
Performance:
Well, lets say that I spanked out a personal best of 108ft. 60-0.
I was using the same road, same conditions (as much as possible...atmospherice temp was 10 degrees more) and tires had accumlated 380 miles since last test. I was averaging stops of 112.789 with the new equipment.
BUT, tires are the limit of the connection to the road...I had to really learn how to modulate the pedal to get the stops down that far. Just cant romp them like I used to w/o the anti-locks getting all happy. I was drifting into higher stopping number becuase the ABS was kickin.
Pedal feel is GREAT. I put on the SS lines and its is FIRMER than stock with rubber lines. I think this is the BEST part of the whole kit. No more mushy crappy yucky Nissan pedal. I really think most would get a better feel just doing the SS lines.
Also no fade. I was pounding these brakes and for sure, they "could" be tracked happily. I dont track so thats pure suggestion/assumption.
OK...I have had my BBK for about 1 full month now and figured it would be time for a review.
Wear:
Today I pulled it apart, to see how things were wearing and if anything funky was going on. Right now I have a "ridge" on my pads at the very top, as if the full pad is not on the rotor. Not sure what long term effect of this is. Maybe quicker pad consumption? That seems to be the only usage negative that I can come up with so far. No squeaking (I used the Nissan 300Z shim kit and any squeaks are now history). I also used anti-seaze grease as my anti-squeak grease
Performance:
Well, lets say that I spanked out a personal best of 108ft. 60-0.
I was using the same road, same conditions (as much as possible...atmospherice temp was 10 degrees more) and tires had accumlated 380 miles since last test. I was averaging stops of 112.789 with the new equipment.
BUT, tires are the limit of the connection to the road...I had to really learn how to modulate the pedal to get the stops down that far. Just cant romp them like I used to w/o the anti-locks getting all happy. I was drifting into higher stopping number becuase the ABS was kickin.
Pedal feel is GREAT. I put on the SS lines and its is FIRMER than stock with rubber lines. I think this is the BEST part of the whole kit. No more mushy crappy yucky Nissan pedal. I really think most would get a better feel just doing the SS lines.
Also no fade. I was pounding these brakes and for sure, they "could" be tracked happily. I dont track so thats pure suggestion/assumption.
#1. What condition were the OEM pads/rotors/fluid in? Both tests should have been conducted with brand new OEM pads and rotors, with the same fluid.
#2. Testing braking distance on different days isn't scientific. How do I know that when the OEM brakes were tested there wasn't debri on the suface of the road? The temperature was different as stated, not very scientific.
#3. I didn't see any listing of the pad used on the 2K4 pads? OEM or Aftermarket?
The NPM, from what I read, is way more scientific, and does't jive with these "un-scientific" results conducted by a G-tech.
02-25-2005, 12:00 PM
#195
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
I am tired of arguing this, but no where have you proven that the OEM brakes aren't adequate for street driving. The NPM test shows that they are competent in stopping from 60-0 the first couple of times. I have never seen a safety recall on 2K-2K1 brakes, thus the evidence out there shows that the OEM's are competent for street driving, when you aren't driving like an idiot and endangering yourself and the general public. The OEM brakes are not up to the job of stopping the car during road course driving.
02-25-2005, 12:01 PM
#196
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
My point was that the Altima for WHATEVER reasons has very impressive brakes vs. the OEM Maxima and that improving over them is probably a feat.
maybe the answer to "why the OEM brakes seem kind of weak" (or however you want to state it) is either:
1. Brake master cylinder (I know a few have put larger ones in, but I haven't seen this mentioned in this particular discussion). I would assume an "upgraded" MC could make a difference in braking power as well....
2. Factory brake bias. I notice that with factory brakes, the Maxima really "dives" into stops, whereas my wife's Mazda 3 stops extremely quickly, but it feels like the rear brakes are doing a larger proportion of the work (and I note that her rear wheels get dirtier than the fronts, with the same pads on both). The car simply stays "flatter" (I'm sure partially because it's a lighter car, but the rear brakes are DEFINITELY putting down more stopping power proportionally when compared to the maxima....
02-25-2005, 12:01 PM
#197
Stop making excuses. All conditions were basicly the same except for the brake parts. I guess maybe he swtiched to some R compounds and swept the street with a broom to improve his times. Cripes.
And from this totally unscientific test, he will still able to to get nearly the same stopping times as your NPM test. Actually he gave you the benefit of the doubt as some of his times were actually better. Any error the Gtech might have had with the bbk, was present with the stock brakes too.
Anyway, since you aren't disputing the results, only the test method, I assume you agree that his bbk did a fine job at improving his car.
And from this totally unscientific test, he will still able to to get nearly the same stopping times as your NPM test. Actually he gave you the benefit of the doubt as some of his times were actually better. Any error the Gtech might have had with the bbk, was present with the stock brakes too.
Anyway, since you aren't disputing the results, only the test method, I assume you agree that his bbk did a fine job at improving his car.
02-25-2005, 12:03 PM
#198
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Phuleeeease....
Yeah, NPM's method of "running it as close to 60 mph as we could gauge on the speedo" really inspires confidence.
Yeah, NPM's method of "running it as close to 60 mph as we could gauge on the speedo" really inspires confidence.
02-25-2005, 12:06 PM
#199
No where have you proven they are adequate for anyone on the street.
NPM showed the Altima, which I admit has superior brakes to the 2K-2K1 Maxima, so that test is invalid.
2Ks' had a TSB released for warping issues, late 2K Nissan release an updated rotor which was carried through 2K1. Then 2K2+ they used a different rotor again. There wasn't a "recall"? Hell they don't recall engine shut downs and A-arms breaking, so why would you think they'd care?
Last for you...not everyone.
NPM showed the Altima, which I admit has superior brakes to the 2K-2K1 Maxima, so that test is invalid.
2Ks' had a TSB released for warping issues, late 2K Nissan release an updated rotor which was carried through 2K1. Then 2K2+ they used a different rotor again. There wasn't a "recall"? Hell they don't recall engine shut downs and A-arms breaking, so why would you think they'd care?
Last for you...not everyone.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
I am tired of arguing this, but no where have you proven that the OEM brakes aren't adequate for street driving. The NPM test shows that they are competent in stopping from 60-0 the first couple of times. I have never seen a safety recall on 2K-2K1 brakes, thus the evidence out there shows that the OEM's are competent for street driving, when you aren't driving like an idiot and endangering yourself and the general public. The OEM brakes are not up to the job of stopping the car during road course driving.
02-25-2005, 12:07 PM
#200
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Stop making excuses. All conditions were basicly the same except for the brake parts. I guess maybe he swtiched to some R compounds and swept the street with a broom to improve his times. Cripes.
And from this totally unscientific test, he will still able to to get nearly the same stopping times as your NPM test. Actually he gave you the benefit of the doubt as some of his times were actually better. Any error the Gtech might have had with the bbk, was present with the stock brakes too.
Anyway, since you aren't disputing the results, only the test method, I assume you agree that his bbk did a fine job at improving his car.
And from this totally unscientific test, he will still able to to get nearly the same stopping times as your NPM test. Actually he gave you the benefit of the doubt as some of his times were actually better. Any error the Gtech might have had with the bbk, was present with the stock brakes too.
Anyway, since you aren't disputing the results, only the test method, I assume you agree that his bbk did a fine job at improving his car.