steven88

iTrader: (28)

Okay so I finally got a chance to put on my cattman headers today....mad thanks to 1fstmax for all the help.....at first I thought my precats were jacked up thats why I have been experiencing this NASTY power loss....so I got a new MAF+reprogrammed....no go still....so i said, it has to be the precats then!....so we changed them out to cattman headers today....FREAKIN STILL NO GO!!!

everything is still the same....a severe power loss at any RPM..a rough start up..a pretty steady idle of 650....but something new shows up this time....an SES of 0300 (random/multiple misfires detected)....1fstmax revs the engine real hard in neutral and we both hear misfiring from the exhaust note....

anyway i am so freakin pissed off right now....I just want my car to go back to normal....anybody have ANY ideas where to start? please don't say stealership becuz thats the last place i want to head to....

thanks for reading!!!

E55AMG2

iTrader: (4)

Im checking into it....

E55AMG2

iTrader: (4)

ok...per the ESM....

Causes:

Improper spark plug
Insufficient Compression
Incorrect Fuel Pressure
Injector Circuit is open or shorted
Injectors
Intake Air Leak
Ignition Secondary Circuit is open or shorted
Lack of Fuel
Drive Plate or Flywheel
Heated Oxygen Sensor 1
Incorrect PCV hose connection


Im willing to bet you messed up heated oxygen sensor 1 during the install...Its not hard to do.

01GreyLustreSE

iTrader: (7)

Since you get headers this will be easy...... get a temp gun and point at each runner which ever ones have a lower temp is most likely the cylinder missfiring.. hope that helps a bit...

steven88

iTrader: (28)

thanks for the quick reply E55....so you think its my o2 sensors? my downstream ones are running off the simulators right now...LED on the simulator blinks and no CEL for o2's on the dashboard....the upstream sensors are both plugged in but the wires have been extended since they run short in stock length....i used some 22 gauge wire iirc and soldered them...then wrapped with electrical tape....u really think it's my o2 sensor 1 e55? wouldn't that throw a seperate SES if it was sensor 1?

another thing to note....with the engine still on...1fstmax unplugged each bank 2 spark plug coil...one at a time....each time a cylinder was unplugged, the engine started to choke...then he plugged it back and it started to idle fine again....this is for ALL THREE of the bank 2 cylinders....we couldn't test out bank 1 becuz the intake manifold is blocking the way....

steven88

iTrader: (28)

i realize u enforced a new rule about posting repeat threads....i hope this isn't one...i am just absolutely tired from the install and really really want my car to be back to normal....my car has been running crappy since may 7th....man I miss the power so much....right now my SES light is blinking...i read in my owners manual that it indicates misfiring....fack.....=(

i just want everybody out there to know that i REALLY appreciate the .org for how much it has helped me....and now i'm askin u guys one of the biggest favors...since I miss this car so much....i'm doing my best by talkin to locals who know alot about mechanics...please chime in if u can

E55AMG2

iTrader: (4)

Are you absolutely sure you soldered each wire properly..... its easy to cross up the wires.

Shogunsc4

iTrader: (2)

sucks to hear your ride is messed up like that...i mean you got one of the cleanest looking 5.5 gen on the org. Hopefully it is not anything big.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

i'm pretty positive...1fstmax even told me to cut ONE wire at a time and extend ONE wire at a time...just so i don't mix up the wires...but e55...wouldn't a bad o2 sensor 1 just casue a SES and bad mileage, loss of performance? instead of me where i'm getting HUGE loss in performance, real rough start, etc.?

anyway I just got back from the garage...took a look at the front 4 o2 sensors....the two middle ones are simulated becuz they are the downstream ones...the one on the passenger side (blue connector) is an upstream one which the wire has been exteded from stock....but the weird thing i noticed is...the one on very right (closest to drivers side) is a four wire connector...and it leads to the tranny somewhere ...i remember the upstream sensors only have 3 wires coming out of them..i was confused....then i remembered the other blue upstream connector is somewhere in the back near the intake manifold.....

why is one upstream connector in the front and the other upstream connector near the intake manifold area? I thought all four (2 downstream, 2 upstream) o2 sensors were in the front?

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

Sorry I haven't been on the .org for like 2 days now due to home improvement going on around the house- friggn tired as hell.

Your 02 sensors will not cause missfires, cratch that. Your car will run the SAME with the rear 02s connected or not there. Your car will go into limp mode if the FRONT 02s are not connected- which I doubt they are not.

You have 2 issues- eighter a coil is going bad- try swapping coils around and see which cylinder missfires while unpluggin the coils and having someone rev up the engine to see if the tone of the engine changes with one coil disconnected. You should hear the engine eighter missfireing MORE if you unplug a WORKING coil on a WORKING cylinder. Once you find a DEAD cylinder the missfire will be the same with the cylinder you unplug the coil from. Try swapping coils around to see if its a bad coil. After that, OHM out all your injectors- ONLY if the coil didn't fix your problem.

Nissan used to have some really BAAD injectors from JECS back in the day on the 3rd and 4th gens, so even now you can still expect one or more cars to have problems with them.

Scratch off any MAF issues here, O2 sensors, TPS sensors- ITS A BAD COIL. Eighter that or your engine has sucked in a butterfly set screw and bent a valve causing the engine some compression loss- which will make it behave like its missfireing. One way to tell is doing a compression test.

Once again sorry for not getting back to you on time, my computer wasn't even on for 2 days due to remodeling of the joint.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

You don't have to cut the 02 wires that run off the manifolds that give feedback to the ECU for performance under <WOT. Only the sensors that run further downstream which indicate a proper functioning cat, or in this case functioning pre-cats are the ones you need to extend, and i still haven't done mine, and still have full power.

There's am o2 sensor connection in the rear next to the IM, and this one is one of the 2 that gives feedback to the downstream sensor, which monitors the cat, and has no effect on performance. Not sure about the 5.5g, but the 4g runs closed loop under WOT, meaning it takes no consideration of the any feedback from the o2 sensors under WOT, meaning you are truly misfiring due to a faluty spark plug or coil.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Damn, beat me to it BlackBIRD ...

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

5th gens actually go to OPEN loop under WOT- they do NOT look at 02 sensor readings at all and switch to OPEN loop. Closed loop is when the ECU monitors oxygen sensors for optimum emissions and fuel economy. On the 6th gen Nissan uses WideBand oxygen sensors that you can monitor via Consult 2 to see what A/F the vehicle is runing. I know my car tries to adjust the A/F to 14.7 at all times, but once I get on it hard it switches over to OPEN loop and the A/F goes down to the rich side and my scan tool says OPEN LOOP OPERATION. I have played around quite alot with the A/F on my 3.0L. I can unplug my oxygen sensors and go run the same 1/4 mile time with the PRIMARY O2 sensors ( ones before the cat) unplugged. ECU goes by its pre-programed injector pulse width and spark maps. Its got alot of fuel and ignition maps to choose from depending on engine load, barometric pressure, type of gasoline used in the gas tank etc. Todays cars are actually pretty smart, and very eassy to tune. Everyone was really affraid of OBDII when it came out, I preffer OBDII vs OBDI because it gives me so much more information bout whats going on with the engine vs OBDI.

Steven- try checking the coils, or even swapping them with a buddy that has a 5.5 gen. I'm almost sure thats what your problem is... if that aint it.... check injectors for resistance with a OHM meter, and if they all Ohm out perfect or within .1 Ohm of eachother then you might wanna do a compression test. Try to do these in the order I just specified.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I had it mixed up then ...

In my case it was that I ran my best dynos with only the primary o2's connected while th other 2 were in my trunk ... and have since been there since 12/28/04.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

I FINALLY had a muffler shop reweld my primary o2 sensor bung into a location where the 02 sensor doesn't hit the AC compressor - HotShot headers here. These guys where really puzzled as to how I pull off the zip tied o2 sensors to my coolant passage on the side of the engine on top of the tranny No Check engine lights here at all, I keep em hooked up for my heater element or I will get a check engine light for heater maulfunction. I will try to take some pics of my 02 sensor relocation, which I will submit to HotShot for their "re-design" of the headers- that is IF they ever decide to make them for us again.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Sounds like a good deal. I still have warranty on my car, extended and they were cool about it, and told me all I needed to do for them to clear the codes and perform warranty work was to bung the o2's somewhere in the headers, but I was reluctant to do so because I wasn't sure if they(sensors) need to be monitroing a cat and bunging the headers well, they were semi-pricey ..

On my 4g my rear O2 had been bunged in and I have no cats whatsoever and no CEL.

So what you're saying on your car, is that even if they're just kept in stream no SES will be there? I understand this is somewhat dependant on each car being that I've read where some people have extended wires and had no problems whereas others still have the SES.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

I ran O2 simulators to get rid of my problem vs 60 dollars for having 2 bungs welded somewhere down in my exhaust. I don't even have a main cat on my car so I would STILL get a light for a cat efficiency below threshold.

02 sim works great, its pretty reliable and even got me through the IL emission test. They only look for codes while testing for emissions- they think the car will know if the cat aint working or something else is wrong with it and turn on the MIL. Well mine thinks everything is kosher and no light is on

steven88

iTrader: (28)

Nmex - You didn't extend your primary/upstream o2 sensors for your cattman headers? I dunno how you pulled it off, but as for my stock length...it was WAAY short to where it plugs into the cattman headers...anywayz....



this is a shot of one of the primary/upstream o2 sensors near the intake manifold. you can tell by the blue connector...



as you can tell the two middle sensors are zip tied becuz they are simulated...the one on the left (passenger side) is the another primary/upstream one that is left stock except we extended the wires cuz it won't reach the cattman headers....and the one on the right(drivers side) is interesting...its four wires and it leads to a connector that hooks up to the tranny....how come it is like this? I know blackbird said even if your o2's go bad it should not misfire...but I am curious to know wtf this is becuz I always thought the front 4 plugs on cali spec cars were the o2 sensors...

steven88

iTrader: (28)

blackbird - thank you SOOO much for all the help....i will do the testing procedures that you have given me to diagnose my problem.....but how would I check my bank1 set of cylinders? i can only have access to bank2 while the car is on....cuz the 2k2 intake manifold is blocking the way....

steven88

iTrader: (28)

UPDATE - okay i just got back from the garage....i tried revving the engine with everything connected from the factory...and memorized the exhaust note...then one at a time...i disconnected one coil pack connector, then got back inside the car to rev the engine and memorize the exhaust note.....

for the front 3 cylinders (bank2)....I was able to get a strong misfiring sound each time I disconnected the coil packs.....then I tried for the rear 3 cylinders (bank1)....couldn't reach two of them...the passenger one and the middle one (cylinder 1 & 3 respectively)....i was able to reach cylinder 5's coil pack and disconnect that....once again I was able to hear a strong misfire when I got back inside and revved her up....

i am not able to diagnose cylinders 1 & 3....they are not accessible unless the intake manifold is taken off....do you guys think its my coil packs for cylinders 1 & 3? if there isn't any other testing procedures to check cylinders, I might head down to the stealership ASAP to pick up 2 new coils....plz chime in quick!

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

The blue one next to my IM is in my trunk and the connector is just dangling there.

I can post some pics of mine later today, but I extended no wires yt and still have full power but i have SES due to the 2 baby blue "non-primary" O2 sensors not connected ...

Take the IM off, it's very easy, I mean you jsut did headers so it'll be quite easy for you, and see is up with those cylinders.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

waaaah?? are you serious? that blue plug next to your IM isn't connected?!?! how weird...well what about the front manifold? my stock PRIMARY o2 sensor was WAY short of the front cattman manifold....no doubt it had to be extended...i dunno how your's came like that....

and u have an SES light for 2 baby blue connectors not plugged in? that confuses me more....cuz from what I see the baby blue connectors are the PRIMARY ones...maybe the 2k3's had diff color + lengths?

thanks for all the help u guys...but nmex...how can I test the cylinders if the IM is off?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Check your PM ...

Notice the light blue just hanging around w/nothing attacthed in the front and in the rear next to the IM is the same story

steven88

iTrader: (28)

whoa what da freak!?! so wait a minute...if your baby BLUE connectors are just dangling there....and those are your SECONDARY o2's...then that will mean i wired my simulators to the WRONG o2's (PRIMARY).....

ahhh wtf...this can't be right...when I was stock....I saw that the baby blue one was plugged in BEFORE the precat...meaning this has to be the primary one...and the other two o2's in the middle...their wires ran all the way down there (after the precat).....my installation of the simulators has to be right....cuz the baby blue ones i saw with my own eyes, they go before the precat...meaning they are the primary...argh!! wtf is going on....

thanks for the PM nmex....i'm gonna read it in a few minutes....i'm also hoping blackbird will be back later to chime in this thread....i think hes at work right now...

MaximaMan77

Rather that start a new thread I thought I'd ask this here.

BlackBIRDVQ, when I 1st got the car (May of 02) I put on one of those breather filters thinking it'd help keep my IM cleaner but shortly after putting it on I started getting a P0300 code. The cel would trip at idle or just before idle when the rpm's were falling. I took it off the filter and got no more code.

Last fall I bought Matt's old HS headers and then got the Frank exhaust. Within a month I started getting the same code under the same conditions. I started clearing the code and after a month or so it'd come back. Now it comes back in a day or two.

Isn't that code just for "Random" misfires? And wouldn't the ECU throw a P030 1 through 6 for cylinder specific misfires?
I'd like to fix it but I don't know where to start. I've had the recall work done for the crank & cam sensors and thought 1 might have been faulty. Also my primary O2 wires are slightly touching the AC compressor, I haven't extended them and the wire is tight to the plug but it's not binding.

I like to see what you think.

Thanks,
Adam

MaximaMan77

There is 1 O2 secondary connector in the front with the 2 Primaries and the other secondary in near the PCV valve on the fire wall side of the engine. They are light Blue if you didn't connect the sim to them then that has to be part of your problem.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

thanks for chiming in adam...are you still expericing the conditions u have like me? if so that freakin sux...the car is just so DAMN slow...argh, feels like i'm gonna break it if i go WOT....

and yes I was wondering the same..wouldn't the SES throw a code for a specific cylinder misfire if only two of mine are bad? since I CANNOT reach the passenger and middle rear spark plugs....i don't know if they are faulty or not....i only have access to the front 3 and the rear drivers side...and i know they are working great becuz I disconnected them...and started to hear more choking/misfiring...

so I'm narrowing it down to the passenger and middle rear cylinders....these are the ones that can't be tested with the car on....but it's weird, i would think the ECU would throw a code for only these two cylinders...the p0300 code DOES say random/MULTIPLE misfires though...so i can be true that if there are more than one misfires..then it would throw this code..

E55AMG2

iTrader: (4)

Steven...remove the O2 sims entirely and start again. Im thinking that since you simulated the front sensors...the ECU thinks its getting a bad signal and throwing a misfire code. Also, if you are going to change coils...do both coils and plugs and do all 6. You cant really test the 5.5 gen coils...the best thing to do is swap them all out.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

another update - took the car for a test drive a few minutes ago....absolutely NO POWER...we're talkin about a HUGE loss....so huge that this car is now a hazard to drive on the street....accelerating from 0 to 20mph takes a good 5 seconds....i'm gonna let this car sit for awhile since its that dangerous to drive it now....

also...i tested my o2's just to see if they are working or not...my procedures were the following...disconnected ALL 4 of my sensors then start the car.....ECU stores o2 codes so I go ahead and check it using OBDII scanner....I get 4 different codes...two of them are 0300 (random multiple misfires)...and one of them is bank 1 oxygen sensor 1...the other is bank 2 oxygen sensor 1.....took her for a test drive and it still ran like ****....went back and i erased all the codes...plugged all my sensors back in...fired her up and no SES....turned her off and hooked up the obdii and nada....

this means that my primary o2s are just fine....becuz with them connected...i throw no SES...but with them disconnected i throw an SES....ahhh wuts goin on!?!

1FSTMAX

iTrader: (29)

i tried unplugging the o2 sims, the results were the same.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

fsm confirmed:

only the red and white harness on cali spec maximas are the rear o2's
white is bank 1 sensor 2
red is bank 2 sensor 2

how do I know this?
-I have o2 simulator
-I have fed spec conversion, so I know what used to go where
-I've taken off all of the o2 sensors before

MaximaMan77

No I have no power problems. The car runs fine. I'm just getting the same code as you but I'm getting it at idle.

Also my bad about the sensor locations. I'm really sorry about posting that. I was going from memory when I did the Header install. I have a good memory... It's just short.

Here are the real locations per FSM:
The connector near the PCV is Sensor 1 bank 1.
Looking from the front starting from the left. Sensor 1 bank 2; Sensor 2 bank 2; Sensor 2 bank 1.

If everything is wired correctly, you've had the recall work done if needed & you have No air leaks then I'd go with the coils like you've been told by people who know alot more than me.

I guess if you want to check some other things before dropping the cash on the coils then check that your injectors are all working and make sure you've got good fuel pressure.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

I'm taking the car into the stealership today...well hopefully...I needa call them first and see if they have an opening for me....man..I have a feeling its something worse than just a coil/injector....how much do injectors/coils cost anyway? I have a hookup at parts and he gives me 25% off everything....just like DAVEB

I'll keep this thread updated....wish me luck you guys....time for me to head to the stealership

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

its not the parts that will rip you off, its the labor

$85 to diagnose the problem and that fee is waived if you decide to have them do the work

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Or it goes toward the repair damn stealership

steven88

iTrader: (28)

once again...another UPDATE-

got back from the stealership....was able to talk to a cool service advisor who brought in his personal tech to talk to me about it....i told him everything about my car....and he was pretty chill about it...he knew alot and told me exactly what i should do...he believes that 75% of this problem is coil packs.....the other 25% he believes is related to fuel pressure....so he said to do a fuel pressure test and see wuts up...if still no go...then hes DAMN sure its the coilpacks

he basically saw all my aftermarket parts...and didn't complain one bit...he said "everything is in working order as far as i can see under this hood"....and i told him about my simulators and my updated MAF+reflash...etc etc....he said nope "I'm pretty damn sure its your coils...i know sometimes your coils can be real weak and not trip an SES, but still cause you to misfire"...

so what do u think u guys? anybody agree with the coils? I'm gonna try to do a fuel pressure test before I go out and buy new coils....

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

misfiring almost always equals bad coils, almost everyone has been telling you that also!

you should have replaced those first andrew without going through all this trouble and drama

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I agree, FP is not a common problem so shoulda gone with those first ...
and you even have the code for multiple misfires. And the o2s are reading unburnt fuel thus setting off the o2 sensor code.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

i know ....but I was reading thru some old threads and I noticed alot of people with bad coils trip a 1320 SES....i don't throw one...and at the same time those people who trip a 1320, don't trip a 0300...which is what i'm throwing...and only that one too....

honestly, i'm not trippin out that badly...i feel more confident now that i've been led to the right direction..at least I got to talk to the tech for free...he actually spent a good 25 minutes talking and checkin out my ride, even though he was behind...haha his advisor told him a few times to hurry and get back to work...but yeah for sure another update as soon as I can find the right tools for a fuel pressure test...then off to coils if all systems are go!

steven88

iTrader: (28)

the reason why I didn't go str8 to coils is becuz they cost a fortune...even thru my hookup at parts...and I don't wanna just dish out a large amount just to find out that its not the case yenno? I sorta wanted to take it slowly...

i'm not getting any o2 sensor codes nmex....i only got an o2 sensor code when i purposely unplugged all my o2s...just so i can test them...after i plugged them back in...the codes went away....which means its still in working order...