Wow, we really set the CL-S guys off!!
05-16-2001, 02:27 PM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,087
Re: Good reading...
Originally posted by Michael98033
That was pretty good reading. I enjoyed watching them go from trashing us to trashing each other.
You know, one of the guys over on the CL board said something along the lines of, "we all realize that some cars on the road are faster and some are not." So, what I don't get...C&D, R&T...they give the 5-speed Max and the CL-S almost identical #s. I think we get .1 seconds on the 1/4 mile and they get .1 seconds 0-60. So...how is it that these guys find it so hard to believe that the cars can stand up to each other?
I'll get riled up, a bit, about a Huyndai Excel driver (no flames please) talking about running a Maxima into the ground...because there is no doubt that the Maxima is faster. The CL-S and Maxima are by all means in the same class of performance. You can talk all day about which one is more luxurious, looks better, is better quality, those are all matters of opinion and neither car has been on the market in its current generation and engine long enough to talk about long term quality. Speed is thoroughly tested and its very clear that these two cars make for a good race.
I don't get the anger...
That was pretty good reading. I enjoyed watching them go from trashing us to trashing each other.
You know, one of the guys over on the CL board said something along the lines of, "we all realize that some cars on the road are faster and some are not." So, what I don't get...C&D, R&T...they give the 5-speed Max and the CL-S almost identical #s. I think we get .1 seconds on the 1/4 mile and they get .1 seconds 0-60. So...how is it that these guys find it so hard to believe that the cars can stand up to each other?
I'll get riled up, a bit, about a Huyndai Excel driver (no flames please) talking about running a Maxima into the ground...because there is no doubt that the Maxima is faster. The CL-S and Maxima are by all means in the same class of performance. You can talk all day about which one is more luxurious, looks better, is better quality, those are all matters of opinion and neither car has been on the market in its current generation and engine long enough to talk about long term quality. Speed is thoroughly tested and its very clear that these two cars make for a good race.
I don't get the anger...
05-16-2001, 03:48 PM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,528
*yawn* just read that whole thread.. jeez.. some retards on there and some level heads (just like here I guess). I think the big problem was one person would argue apples, one would argue oranges and the other would lick a light socket (eclipse). Rinse, lather, repeat.
05-16-2001, 03:52 PM
#48
Originally posted by punkdork
*yawn* just read that whole thread.. jeez.. some retards on there and some level heads (just like here I guess). I think the big problem was one person would argue apples, one would argue oranges and the other would lick a light socket (eclipse). Rinse, lather, repeat.
*yawn* just read that whole thread.. jeez.. some retards on there and some level heads (just like here I guess). I think the big problem was one person would argue apples, one would argue oranges and the other would lick a light socket (eclipse). Rinse, lather, repeat.
05-16-2001, 04:04 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 370
FORGIVE AND FORGET!!!!!
OMG, OK, everyone have there own pov and everyone is entitle to there own pov.....only some pov r betta than others.....the ones that have bad pov should get classes or be 
and i say the cls guys should be 
and i say the cls guys should be
05-16-2001, 04:55 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 425
There is always something faster....
Just took a peep at the cl-s site. Man, what a bunch of babies!!! Sure, their cl-s might be faster then the newest stock max... but one reason is because their cars are a newer version. Let's see if their cl-s can beat the next gen maxs. And one guy was talking trash about M5s... they wouldn't be able to hang with a M5 in their wildest dreams!
The are straight calling us out! They definitely have eagle problems...
And of course they only want to race STOCK maxs... that's because their ain't crap for mods yet on a cl-s. So all you modded max guys.... go get those babies!!!
The are straight calling us out! They definitely have eagle problems...
And of course they only want to race STOCK maxs... that's because their ain't crap for mods yet on a cl-s. So all you modded max guys.... go get those babies!!!
05-16-2001, 04:58 PM
#51
Re: There is always something faster....
Originally posted by SFMax20SE
And of course they only want to race STOCK maxs... that's because their ain't crap for mods yet on a cl-s. So all you modded max guys.... go get those babies!!!
And of course they only want to race STOCK maxs... that's because their ain't crap for mods yet on a cl-s. So all you modded max guys.... go get those babies!!!
Like I said before...no question...these two cars are and will continue to be a good race...by all means in the same class of performance.
05-16-2001, 05:34 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,628
Re: Re: There is always something faster....
Originally posted by Michael98033
I will follow-up on that and request no flames from any CL-S guys on the previous comment. There are a few modifications out and by the time the 3.5L is in the Max, there will be a SC on the CL-S.
Like I said before...no question...these two cars are and will continue to be a good race...by all means in the same class of performance.
I will follow-up on that and request no flames from any CL-S guys on the previous comment. There are a few modifications out and by the time the 3.5L is in the Max, there will be a SC on the CL-S.
Like I said before...no question...these two cars are and will continue to be a good race...by all means in the same class of performance.
05-16-2001, 06:04 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,628
Re: Don't be so sure...
Originally posted by Michael98033
According to the rumors...IT WILL. If that happens then a SC will be necessary to take one out with the 3.0L. The 3.5L will be a good match to the VTEC 3.2L 6-speed.
According to the rumors...IT WILL. If that happens then a SC will be necessary to take one out with the 3.0L. The 3.5L will be a good match to the VTEC 3.2L 6-speed.
uh oh.. will our Vortech still work for our Maxima?
05-16-2001, 07:01 PM
#55
I had to post this
Immature replies there, Immature replies here. When is this going to end? We post about a kill here. Someone from over there comes here and doesn't believe what he reads because it goes against his belief. He post stupid stuff about how he beat MAXIMA's all the time( mostly they posted that they raced only 5speeds which I find hard to believe since less than 5% of Maxima's come with them. Maybe its to boost their ego? 
) even though he was NOT the one racing that night or racing psing23 ( Which I must say is one of the most respected and honest person on this site so I believe his kill). He tattle tales to his buddies on his site. They insult us and say how stupid and immature we are. They make fun of our site and how "diffircult" it is to comprehend ( even though it is their first time on this site and are not giving it a chance. Maybe they just posted that so they can make themselves feel better about their site )We go over there and defend our cars. BLAH BLAH BLAH you know the rest.
When is this going to end.
Some of you are saying how bad they are and cuss and make fun of their cars. You aren't any better than they are. You know who you are..
) even though he was NOT the one racing that night or racing psing23 ( Which I must say is one of the most respected and honest person on this site so I believe his kill). He tattle tales to his buddies on his site. They insult us and say how stupid and immature we are. They make fun of our site and how "diffircult" it is to comprehend ( even though it is their first time on this site and are not giving it a chance. Maybe they just posted that so they can make themselves feel better about their site )We go over there and defend our cars. BLAH BLAH BLAH you know the rest. When is this going to end.
Some of you are saying how bad they are and cuss and make fun of their cars. You aren't any better than they are. You know who you are..
05-16-2001, 07:09 PM
#56
Originally posted by punkdork
*yawn* just read that whole thread.. jeez.. some retards on there and some level heads (just like here I guess). I think the big problem was one person would argue apples, one would argue oranges and the other would lick a light socket (eclipse). Rinse, lather, repeat.
*yawn* just read that whole thread.. jeez.. some retards on there and some level heads (just like here I guess). I think the big problem was one person would argue apples, one would argue oranges and the other would lick a light socket (eclipse). Rinse, lather, repeat.
true, true. That eclipse dude reminds me of one of the hyenas on the lion king.
05-16-2001, 08:19 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 370
Re: I had to post this
Originally posted by ScreamingVQ
Immature replies there, Immature replies here. When is this going to end? We post about a kill here. Someone from over there comes here and doesn't believe what he reads because it goes against his belief. He post stupid stuff about how he beat MAXIMA's all the time( mostly they posted that they raced only 5speeds which I find hard to believe since less than 5% of Maxima's come with them. Maybe its to boost their ego? ) even though he was NOT the one racing that night or racing psing23 ( Which I must say is one of the most respected and honest person on this site so I believe his kill). He tattle tales to his buddies on his site. They insult us and say how stupid and immature we are. They make fun of our site and how "diffircult" it is to comprehend ( even though it is their first time on this site and are not giving it a chance. Maybe they just posted that so they can make themselves feel better about their site )We go over there and defend our cars. BLAH BLAH BLAH you know the rest.
When is this going to end.
Some of you are saying how bad they are and cuss and make fun of their cars. You aren't any better than they are. You know who you are..
Immature replies there, Immature replies here. When is this going to end? We post about a kill here. Someone from over there comes here and doesn't believe what he reads because it goes against his belief. He post stupid stuff about how he beat MAXIMA's all the time( mostly they posted that they raced only 5speeds which I find hard to believe since less than 5% of Maxima's come with them. Maybe its to boost their ego?
) even though he was NOT the one racing that night or racing psing23 ( Which I must say is one of the most respected and honest person on this site so I believe his kill). He tattle tales to his buddies on his site. They insult us and say how stupid and immature we are. They make fun of our site and how "diffircult" it is to comprehend ( even though it is their first time on this site and are not giving it a chance. Maybe they just posted that so they can make themselves feel better about their site )We go over there and defend our cars. BLAH BLAH BLAH you know the rest. When is this going to end.
Some of you are saying how bad they are and cuss and make fun of their cars. You aren't any better than they are. You know who you are..
05-16-2001, 08:53 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,983
Re: I had to post this
Originally posted by ScreamingVQ
Immature replies there, Immature replies here. When is this going to end? We post about a kill here. Someone from over there comes here and doesn't believe what he reads because it goes against his belief. He post stupid stuff about how he beat MAXIMA's all the time( mostly they posted that they raced only 5speeds which I find hard to believe since less than 5% of Maxima's come with them. Maybe its to boost their ego? ) even though he was NOT the one racing that night or racing psing23 ( Which I must say is one of the most respected and honest person on this site so I believe his kill). He tattle tales to his buddies on his site. They insult us and say how stupid and immature we are. They make fun of our site and how "diffircult" it is to comprehend ( even though it is their first time on this site and are not giving it a chance. Maybe they just posted that so they can make themselves feel better about their site )We go over there and defend our cars. BLAH BLAH BLAH you know the rest.
When is this going to end.
Some of you are saying how bad they are and cuss and make fun of their cars. You aren't any better than they are. You know who you are..
Immature replies there, Immature replies here. When is this going to end? We post about a kill here. Someone from over there comes here and doesn't believe what he reads because it goes against his belief. He post stupid stuff about how he beat MAXIMA's all the time( mostly they posted that they raced only 5speeds which I find hard to believe since less than 5% of Maxima's come with them. Maybe its to boost their ego?
) even though he was NOT the one racing that night or racing psing23 ( Which I must say is one of the most respected and honest person on this site so I believe his kill). He tattle tales to his buddies on his site. They insult us and say how stupid and immature we are. They make fun of our site and how "diffircult" it is to comprehend ( even though it is their first time on this site and are not giving it a chance. Maybe they just posted that so they can make themselves feel better about their site )We go over there and defend our cars. BLAH BLAH BLAH you know the rest. When is this going to end.
Some of you are saying how bad they are and cuss and make fun of their cars. You aren't any better than they are. You know who you are..
thanks a lot Alex, i really apreciate the compliment. I totally feel the same way... they dont understand that no one was saying that there cars suck, no one was saying that they are all slow and garbage... to me it seemed as if i explained the scenario in a very fair way... i explained all the details and stated exactly what happend... but whatever i dont wanna sit and dwell on this...
On a side note... my friend just got a new Mavica which can record digital movies (like short little clips) so from now on if he is in the car with me we will record these little races... I will race the CL-S again, and 2 Audi 1.8T (1 with chip, 1 without chip) I will also record a burnout with the GS... I love all the smoke i make... hehe... im looking for a big parking lot cause i wanna do donuts with it but there isnt any room around me... but i think those are enough in the mean time... hehe.. gonna do the GS video tomorow prob...
05-17-2001, 05:43 PM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,529
Hey KEv,
I have both cars, I started off in the Maxima.org forums backin the Andi Baritchi days. Anyways yeah I've got a CL-s and I have to admit the car is a very very fast car. It is a lot faster than my 96. In addition, it has a lot of the finer points, tiptronic, better stereo system, better leather, no rattles, etc, that the maxima is a little behind it. I'll give the maxima se credit when it comes to handling I think it's got the edge there. Keep in mind I'm comparing to my 96 max. I think going head to head with an Auto maxima the CL-S definately has the advantage and will probably win 9 out of 10 times. Off the line the CL-S has that "put your *** in you seat" punch my maxima doesn't have ( maybe it does but I'm used to the CL-S now). 5-sp maxima will be a better race and it would be pretty close, I'll even go as far as saying it would be even. The CL-S climbs up to 80-90 mph so smoothly and with ease. I'd have to say the car is very good and an excellent value for the money (I paid 30k out the door). I don't think that it justifies the immaturity of the other guys over there. They seem to have this "I am god" attitude.
That's my 2 cents.
I have both cars, I started off in the Maxima.org forums backin the Andi Baritchi days. Anyways yeah I've got a CL-s and I have to admit the car is a very very fast car. It is a lot faster than my 96. In addition, it has a lot of the finer points, tiptronic, better stereo system, better leather, no rattles, etc, that the maxima is a little behind it. I'll give the maxima se credit when it comes to handling I think it's got the edge there. Keep in mind I'm comparing to my 96 max. I think going head to head with an Auto maxima the CL-S definately has the advantage and will probably win 9 out of 10 times. Off the line the CL-S has that "put your *** in you seat" punch my maxima doesn't have ( maybe it does but I'm used to the CL-S now). 5-sp maxima will be a better race and it would be pretty close, I'll even go as far as saying it would be even. The CL-S climbs up to 80-90 mph so smoothly and with ease. I'd have to say the car is very good and an excellent value for the money (I paid 30k out the door). I don't think that it justifies the immaturity of the other guys over there. They seem to have this "I am god" attitude.
That's my 2 cents.
Originally posted by Y2KevSE
Hi Kevin (feels like I'm talking to myself)! So you have a CL-S also? Is it as good as the other CL-S members say it is?
Hi Kevin (feels like I'm talking to myself)! So you have a CL-S also? Is it as good as the other CL-S members say it is?
05-17-2001, 05:57 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,983
Originally posted by Kevin
The CL-S climbs up to 80-90 mph so smoothly and iwth ease you don't even know how fast you're going until you look at the odometer.
The CL-S climbs up to 80-90 mph so smoothly and iwth ease you don't even know how fast you're going until you look at the odometer.
hehe thats pretty cool... do you count how many seconds it takes for 1 mile to show and then do the math? hehe lol im j/k
lol i just had to mention it...
05-17-2001, 08:35 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,529
Originally posted by psing23
hehe thats pretty cool... do you count how many seconds it takes for 1 mile to show and then do the math? hehe lol im j/k lol i just had to mention it...
hehe thats pretty cool... do you count how many seconds it takes for 1 mile to show and then do the math? hehe lol im j/k
lol i just had to mention it...
05-17-2001, 08:54 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,983
Originally posted by Kevin
So How's the 430??? I've been eying that car for a while....just don't have the funds. I really like that blue color they have for it.
So How's the 430??? I've been eying that car for a while....just don't have the funds. I really like that blue color they have for it.
yea the blue color is great... but the 430 in any color is great... i love it... its fast its luxurious its beautiful and its such a babe magnet
05-17-2001, 11:50 PM
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Kevin
Hey KEv,
I have both cars, I started off in the Maxima.org forums backin the Andi Baritchi days. Anyways yeah I've got a CL-s and I have to admit the car is a very very fast car. It is a lot faster than my 96. In addition, it has a lot of the finer points, tiptronic, better stereo system, better leather, no rattles, etc, that the maxima is a little behind it. I'll give the maxima se credit when it comes to handling I think it's got the edge there. Keep in mind I'm comparing to my 96 max. I think going head to head with an Auto maxima the CL-S definately has the advantage and will probably win 9 out of 10 times. Off the line the CL-S has that "put your *** in you seat" punch my maxima doesn't have ( maybe it does but I'm used to the CL-S now). 5-sp maxima will be a better race and it would be pretty close, I'll even go as far as saying it would be even. The CL-S climbs up to 80-90 mph so smoothly and with ease. I'd have to say the car is very good and an excellent value for the money (I paid 30k out the door). I don't think that it justifies the immaturity of the other guys over there. They seem to have this "I am god" attitude.
That's my 2 cents.
Hey KEv,
I have both cars, I started off in the Maxima.org forums backin the Andi Baritchi days. Anyways yeah I've got a CL-s and I have to admit the car is a very very fast car. It is a lot faster than my 96. In addition, it has a lot of the finer points, tiptronic, better stereo system, better leather, no rattles, etc, that the maxima is a little behind it. I'll give the maxima se credit when it comes to handling I think it's got the edge there. Keep in mind I'm comparing to my 96 max. I think going head to head with an Auto maxima the CL-S definately has the advantage and will probably win 9 out of 10 times. Off the line the CL-S has that "put your *** in you seat" punch my maxima doesn't have ( maybe it does but I'm used to the CL-S now). 5-sp maxima will be a better race and it would be pretty close, I'll even go as far as saying it would be even. The CL-S climbs up to 80-90 mph so smoothly and with ease. I'd have to say the car is very good and an excellent value for the money (I paid 30k out the door). I don't think that it justifies the immaturity of the other guys over there. They seem to have this "I am god" attitude.
That's my 2 cents.
CAI Intake
RSB
FSTB
Springs
Stillen body kit
short shifter
dash kit
upgraded amp with subs
Y-Pipe with exhaust
Lighting all around
It's all about the math baby and look at the pimped out Max you get for the same or even less money! Very exclusive and tuned for racing and would destroy a CL-S on the track. Sorry I feel the CL-S is overpriced for the perfomance it "should" have at 260HP including accel, top speed and cornering!
05-18-2001, 07:02 AM
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,529
Actually I'm curious about the price + mods to see how much it costs versus the CL-S. Does the 2k1 Maxima have headers available?? What's the base price of the Maxima SE 5-sp Loaded ( leather bose etc etc)
Originally posted by PhatGuy
What is the price of a CL-S vs the price of a Max 5pd AE in the USA? I live in Canada so I'm not sure of the USA prices. But I'm sure the price difference can allow the follow Max AE 5spd upgrades...out of curiosity let me know:
CAI Intake
RSB
FSTB
Springs
Stillen body kit
short shifter
dash kit
upgraded amp with subs
Y-Pipe with exhaust
Lighting all around
It's all about the math baby and look at the pimped out Max you get for the same or even less money! Very exclusive and tuned for racing and would destroy a CL-S on the track. Sorry I feel the CL-S is overpriced for the perfomance it "should" have at 260HP including accel, top speed and cornering!
What is the price of a CL-S vs the price of a Max 5pd AE in the USA? I live in Canada so I'm not sure of the USA prices. But I'm sure the price difference can allow the follow Max AE 5spd upgrades...out of curiosity let me know:
CAI Intake
RSB
FSTB
Springs
Stillen body kit
short shifter
dash kit
upgraded amp with subs
Y-Pipe with exhaust
Lighting all around
It's all about the math baby and look at the pimped out Max you get for the same or even less money! Very exclusive and tuned for racing and would destroy a CL-S on the track. Sorry I feel the CL-S is overpriced for the perfomance it "should" have at 260HP including accel, top speed and cornering!
05-18-2001, 07:10 AM
#76
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,528
Originally posted by Kevin
Actually I'm curious about the price + mods to see how much it costs versus the CL-S. Does the 2k1 Maxima have headers available?? What's the base price of the Maxima SE 5-sp Loaded ( leather bose etc etc)
Actually I'm curious about the price + mods to see how much it costs versus the CL-S. Does the 2k1 Maxima have headers available?? What's the base price of the Maxima SE 5-sp Loaded ( leather bose etc etc)
05-18-2001, 07:17 AM
#77
Originally posted by Kevin
Actually I'm curious about the price + mods to see how much it costs versus the CL-S. Does the 2k1 Maxima have headers available?? What's the base price of the Maxima SE 5-sp Loaded ( leather bose etc etc)
Actually I'm curious about the price + mods to see how much it costs versus the CL-S. Does the 2k1 Maxima have headers available?? What's the base price of the Maxima SE 5-sp Loaded ( leather bose etc etc)
PR CAI Intake - $215
Stillen RSB - $227
Stillen FSTB - $164
Stillen RSTB - $179
Springs (I'll list Ground Controls) - $399
Struts (I'll list Koni's) - $440
Stillen body kit - $805
short shifter - I'm an auto
valvebody recalibration (auto only) - $400
Hayden tranny cooler - $50
dash kit - ~$300
upgraded amp with subs - Bose
Y-Pipe - $299
Stillen muffler - Don't remember but they list as ~$500
PIAA Plasmas H4 - $79
PIAA Xtreme Whites H3 - $99
UR Underdrive Pulley - $159 + $28 for belts
clear markers - $40 rears + $60 fronts (OEM parts)
Polarg/Raybrig miscellaneous bulbs - ~$50
Did I miss anything?
05-18-2001, 09:17 AM
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
What is the price of a CL-S with comprable options? Lets work with a Max AE 5spd conservative figure of $27,000US. Add to your list:
Stillen Short Throw $249.00
And mabye even a second amp with in trunk sub.
Remember the 5spd AE is comprable performance...Stock! Now lookie at the list of goodies. Muuhahahahaha
I really like to know the price of a CL-S in the states.....I wonder if we can squeeze a SC in there...that would be hillarious!
Stillen Short Throw $249.00
And mabye even a second amp with in trunk sub.
Remember the 5spd AE is comprable performance...Stock! Now lookie at the list of goodies. Muuhahahahaha
I really like to know the price of a CL-S in the states.....I wonder if we can squeeze a SC in there...that would be hillarious!
05-18-2001, 01:58 PM
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,529
Originally posted by PhatGuy
What is the price of a CL-S with comprable options? Lets work with a Max AE 5spd conservative figure of $27,000US. Add to your list:
Stillen Short Throw $249.00
And mabye even a second amp with in trunk sub.
Remember the 5spd AE is comprable performance...Stock! Now lookie at the list of goodies. Muuhahahahaha
I really like to know the price of a CL-S in the states.....I wonder if we can squeeze a SC in there...that would be hillarious!
What is the price of a CL-S with comprable options? Lets work with a Max AE 5spd conservative figure of $27,000US. Add to your list:
Stillen Short Throw $249.00
And mabye even a second amp with in trunk sub.
Remember the 5spd AE is comprable performance...Stock! Now lookie at the list of goodies. Muuhahahahaha
I really like to know the price of a CL-S in the states.....I wonder if we can squeeze a SC in there...that would be hillarious!
My CL-Type S is was ~$30,000 (+/-$100) out the door after taxes license fees etc etc. I got every option ( including spoiler) except for Navigation system. ( Nav system was an extra $2k, not worth it IMO) The cool little features(standard) that the CL has and Maxima doesn't, memory seats, tiptronic, 6 Disc in dash changer, radio control on Steering wheel ( I think AE might have this as an option),Xenons, auto title down passenger mirror, homelink, auto dim rear view, standard ABS. The best times I've seen documented for a stock CL-S is: 0-60 in 6.4 and the 1/4 mile in about 14.8 secs. Worst times I've seend for a CL-S is 0-60 7.0 and 1/4 in 15.2 seconds
I'd really like to know what the performance of the modded maxima would be.
05-18-2001, 02:08 PM
#80
Originally posted by Kevin
The best times I've seen documented for a stock CL-S is: 0-60 in 6.4 and the 1/4 mile in about 14.8 secs.
I'd really like to know what the performance of the modded maxima would be.
The best times I've seen documented for a stock CL-S is: 0-60 in 6.4 and the 1/4 mile in about 14.8 secs.
I'd really like to know what the performance of the modded maxima would be.
Where did you get the 6.4 time on the CL-S. I believe the 14.8...C&D gave it a 15.1. 6.4 is pretty fast considering the 6.9 that I saw in C&D. I suppose manually shifting the auto tranny you could make for a better time than otherwise, but .5 seconds seems to be a lot of time to drop on an automatic with just driving ability. Maybe not...but then again...I've only ever purchased one automatic tranny vehicle.