How can I get better MPG? 03 3.5L
07-09-2005, 10:36 PM
#1
Improve MPG
I know the use of toulene is well known by the turbo and SC guys to riase the octaine rating of fuel, but while looking for a place to find a replacement toyo fz4 tire i somehow stumbled on this.
http://www.lubedev.com/articles/additive.htm
it descibes the use of acetone added to fuel to improve gas milage, not so much by riasing the octaine but rather lowering the fuels surface tension and allowing it vaporize better......its interesting, i am going to give it a try.
Oh and does anyone know where i could pic up a toyo fz4 235/45/18 in NYC w/o having to order it. want to get my rims on tomorrow
http://www.lubedev.com/articles/additive.htm
it descibes the use of acetone added to fuel to improve gas milage, not so much by riasing the octaine but rather lowering the fuels surface tension and allowing it vaporize better......its interesting, i am going to give it a try.
Oh and does anyone know where i could pic up a toyo fz4 235/45/18 in NYC w/o having to order it. want to get my rims on tomorrow
07-09-2005, 10:50 PM
#3
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Let us know how your car runs with it. Acetone can be purchased in any hardware store and its cheap. I read that you should mix the acetone in a container and then pour it into the tank. Pure acetone can damage the fuel line.
07-10-2005, 01:26 AM
#5
I got the article form a thread on NYCgasprices.com
http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/Foru...age_no=1&FAV=N
looks as though plenty have tried it w/ good results, figure i i will to
http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/Foru...age_no=1&FAV=N
looks as though plenty have tried it w/ good results, figure i i will to
07-10-2005, 02:15 AM
#6
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 27
You guys gotta consider this though, at one time everything was considered risky. Going to unleaded fuel I'm sure was considered a risky move but now thats all you can find. Messing with the air induction system, exhuat system all things that are now popular things were considered risky when they were first invented. With the raising cost of fuel I am not suprised to see more and more new ways to inprove MPG.
07-10-2005, 04:29 AM
#7
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 434
So even if acetone doesn't damage anything do you really save money? I mean, you have to pay for the acetone as well as gas now. So does the increase in MPG and therefore the decrease in fuel costs outweigh the price of the acetone?
07-10-2005, 05:17 AM
#8
Originally Posted by jkayca
So even if acetone doesn't damage anything do you really save money? I mean, you have to pay for the acetone as well as gas now. So does the increase in MPG and therefore the decrease in fuel costs outweigh the price of the acetone?
07-10-2005, 06:06 AM
#9
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 342
You can buy 1 gal for 15.74 plus tax or shipping if you order via mail. That is 128oz total. The suggested mix to a tank of gas is 3oz. I believe that works out to 37 cents per tank. The claim is that you will see MPG gains of 20-30%. So even if you see 20% on a tank of gas you will be saving money on gas. It cost me 37.00 to fill up so a 20% savings would translate out to about 7.00 per tank after the cost of the acetone. I read that the gas treatments being sold today are mostly acetone and that consumers have been putting it in their cars for a long time without any damage. But I'm not totally convinced. I do remember that I had more power when I recently cleaned my injectors with Techtron. I added 1 big can to about 8 gallons. It was like rocket fuel.
07-10-2005, 08:59 AM
#11
".......Acetone operates on the unburned portion of the fuel to gain added vaporization and improved combustion efficiency. Acetone further operates like an electron absorber. There are no bad effects whatsoever and every good reason to use acetone in your fuel. The fuel characteristics during combustion remain those of the original fuel. It just burns more completely with insignificant amounts of acetone."
Is that what you are talking about. If it is, its true, and is a good thing. But a bit hard to explaine to someone w/o at least a basic understanding of organic chemistry.
Is that what you are talking about. If it is, its true, and is a good thing. But a bit hard to explaine to someone w/o at least a basic understanding of organic chemistry.
07-10-2005, 10:09 AM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 458
From the article: "They suffer from unlimited corporate GREED."
That throws a red flag IMHO. WHenever someone bases information suppression on "corporate greed", it's a huge red herring. It doesn't support their arguement, it just plays on people's emotions and tendency not to trust "the man". As if the 10,000s of people who work for big oil and car companies are all able to keep a secret. yea, right.
Think about it, a modern FI engine burns all its fuel at cruise/closed loop. It's a very clean almost perfect burn. In fact, it's flurting with being too lean (and almost too hot/destructive). There is no way that 10-35% of the gas is not getting burned (what is being claimed that acetone can help recover). If it were burning that rich, you'd have black smoke coming out of your tailpipe.
Oh, and this quote is just a hoot: "The acetone provides that kick with its rapid inherent molecular vibration that prevents fuel from escaping the combustion process and going through unburned."
So its warmed up and stays warmer than the gas?
load of crap.
And what's so great about having an electron absorber (even if acetone was one) for a combustion process?
Acetone is still great at removing nail polish though, I won't dispute that.
That throws a red flag IMHO. WHenever someone bases information suppression on "corporate greed", it's a huge red herring. It doesn't support their arguement, it just plays on people's emotions and tendency not to trust "the man". As if the 10,000s of people who work for big oil and car companies are all able to keep a secret. yea, right.
Think about it, a modern FI engine burns all its fuel at cruise/closed loop. It's a very clean almost perfect burn. In fact, it's flurting with being too lean (and almost too hot/destructive). There is no way that 10-35% of the gas is not getting burned (what is being claimed that acetone can help recover). If it were burning that rich, you'd have black smoke coming out of your tailpipe.
Oh, and this quote is just a hoot: "The acetone provides that kick with its rapid inherent molecular vibration that prevents fuel from escaping the combustion process and going through unburned."
So its warmed up and stays warmer than the gas?
load of crap.
And what's so great about having an electron absorber (even if acetone was one) for a combustion process?
Acetone is still great at removing nail polish though, I won't dispute that.
07-10-2005, 10:39 AM
#13
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 342
itdood: You may be indeed right. We will know for sure until an independent lab does a test. I actually submitted the idea to Myth Busters for a show. It's right up their alley. I'm no expert but I do have common sense which may not help me here either. But I think what the acetone is "suppose" to do is allow the gas to be better atomized so the droplets are smaller and more gas can burn more efficiently. I may be off base but I think that is the principle. Anyway, this is an interesting thread. If it worked I would certainly use it. One last thing. Corporations have been making inferior products for a long time because they want to sell more of their products. so saying that the big oil companies want you to burn more gas doesn't send up any flags for me. I agree. It's good business for use to have high mileage cars that burn gas at alarming rates.
07-10-2005, 10:45 AM
#14
just got to get my odo/speedometer working so i can keep track of MPG. but i will use it untill then since it says best result occur after 3-4 tanks.Either way i am going to giva it a try. i looked up a bunch of info on it and the science behind it sounds good....
Its not like that thread last week with the little device that clamped onto the fuel hose. that thing was funny, if that thing actualy worked i dont understand why the manufactures were selling dinky little units over the web, rather than winning the nobel prize for redefining the the basic laws of both physics and chemistry as they are known today and making tons of cash from there patent for revolutionizing the petroleum refining industry.
Its not like that thread last week with the little device that clamped onto the fuel hose. that thing was funny, if that thing actualy worked i dont understand why the manufactures were selling dinky little units over the web, rather than winning the nobel prize for redefining the the basic laws of both physics and chemistry as they are known today and making tons of cash from there patent for revolutionizing the petroleum refining industry.
07-10-2005, 11:14 AM
#15
Originally Posted by itdood
And what's so great about having an electron absorber (even if acetone was one) for a combustion process?
since most free radical intermediates are very reactive and have short lifetimes, all the steps in chain reaction sequence must be fast compared with possible competing reactions. This means that atom abstractions and radical additions should be exothermic, or only mildly endothermic. combusion of light chain alkeen's in an engine produces many free radicles, most of which react and exit the combusion chamber as stable producs, the rest will be used up in the cat converter. addition of elctrophile like dimethy ketone (acetone) to the combustion chamber could mop up this fraction that usualy gets evacuated
exothermic = heat production
07-10-2005, 03:58 PM
#19
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by Dr. Roy
Its not like that thread last week with the little device that clamped onto the fuel hose. that thing was funny, if that thing actualy worked i dont understand why the manufactures were selling dinky little units over the web, rather than winning the nobel prize for redefining the the basic laws of both physics and chemistry as they are known today and making tons of cash from there patent for revolutionizing the petroleum refining industry.
There's an article here of someone who tried it, you have to page down a bit to find it.
http://www.cryptogon.com/2005_03_20_blogarchive.html
Also here
http://digg.com/science/Increase_you..._using_Acetone
07-10-2005, 04:24 PM
#21
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
I am a relatively new member of bobistheoilguy.com (BITOG). There are some 8,000 members, many of whom are very knowledgeable and in some cases rather **** about what they use in the way of lubricants, additives etc. I used the search feature and several threads popped up, some of which I perused. The takeaway that I got was:
- acetone has less energy conserving value than gasoline
- some trials have been performed showing that MPG actually suffers
- do not get it on your car paint
- it is a solvent and has the potential to damage fuel system components, many of which are plastic
- it has the potential to damage electric fuel pumps
- why haven't car manufacturers lobbied for the introduction of this product to stimulate SUV sales etc
etc. etc.
Some suggested trials in a lawnmower first. I'll leave it up to you to decide, but I'm not touching this stuff with a 10-foot pole. You would be better to use Lube Control FP at US$33 per gallon from what I gather. I haven't bought any yet but intend to.
www.lubecontrol.com
- acetone has less energy conserving value than gasoline
- some trials have been performed showing that MPG actually suffers
- do not get it on your car paint
- it is a solvent and has the potential to damage fuel system components, many of which are plastic
- it has the potential to damage electric fuel pumps
- why haven't car manufacturers lobbied for the introduction of this product to stimulate SUV sales etc
etc. etc.
Some suggested trials in a lawnmower first. I'll leave it up to you to decide, but I'm not touching this stuff with a 10-foot pole. You would be better to use Lube Control FP at US$33 per gallon from what I gather. I haven't bought any yet but intend to.
www.lubecontrol.com
07-10-2005, 04:29 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
Another factor in improved MPG with acetone was cited to perhaps have coincided with the phasing out of winter gas in April and the resulting 10% fuel economy improvement that comes with non-winter gas, not to mention the warmer weather.
07-10-2005, 04:54 PM
#24
A couple comments on this article:
Although in some parts it sounds quite authoritative, the author seems to have a few alternate agendas as well, which may or may not be "subliminally" inserted into the article:
1. the whole corporate greed thing ("send a copy of this article to your Senator" etc)
2. He mentions his "ScanGauge" multiple times, and even has a paragraph talking about it. Sounds almost like a low-key salespitch that is disguised NOT to look like one...
As to the "conspiracy theory" that the oil companies are "hiding" the amazing effectiveness of acetone....doesn't really make sense.....Please forgive my lack of chemical knowledge, but isn't acetone a petroleum-based solvent? If so, the end producer is.....the oil companies, isn't it?? (I truthfully do not know, so apologies if I'm way off base).
Although in some parts it sounds quite authoritative, the author seems to have a few alternate agendas as well, which may or may not be "subliminally" inserted into the article:
1. the whole corporate greed thing ("send a copy of this article to your Senator" etc)
2. He mentions his "ScanGauge" multiple times, and even has a paragraph talking about it. Sounds almost like a low-key salespitch that is disguised NOT to look like one...
As to the "conspiracy theory" that the oil companies are "hiding" the amazing effectiveness of acetone....doesn't really make sense.....Please forgive my lack of chemical knowledge, but isn't acetone a petroleum-based solvent? If so, the end producer is.....the oil companies, isn't it?? (I truthfully do not know, so apologies if I'm way off base).
07-10-2005, 05:03 PM
#25
Ethers in general are highly volatile compounds and come in the usual methyl, ethyl, butyl, etc. flavors. Petroleum ether, on the other hand, is the most volatile product produced through catalytic cracking in the process used to make gasoline, jet fuel, kerosine, and other petroleum products. The process is fractional distillation. Fractional distillation involves introducing a gaseous mixture of related compounds, in this case petroleum compounds into a cooling mechanism, in this case a cracking tower. As the gaseous products cool progressively, they liquify earlier or later depending on volatility. By controlling the rate of flow through the cooling mechanism and drawing off the liquid at specific locations along it, it is possible to separate compounds which are otherwise miscible. You can use the same process to separate methyl (wood) alcohol which is poisonous from ethyl (grain) alcohol which is also poisonous, but less so. "Petroleum ether" is the product drawn off from the top of the cracking tower. Reagent grade petroleum ether appears to be significant more volatile than "naptha" which is also drawn off the top of the tower and marketed as Zippo lighter fluid, Coleman fuel, and white gas. Perhaps reagent grade is subjected to a second distillation or perhaps is simply a more narrowly-defined drawoff.
07-10-2005, 07:49 PM
#26
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,307
Originally Posted by Dr. Roy
".......Acetone operates on the unburned portion of the fuel to gain added vaporization and improved combustion efficiency. Acetone further operates like an electron absorber. There are no bad effects whatsoever and every good reason to use acetone in your fuel. The fuel characteristics during combustion remain those of the original fuel. It just burns more completely with insignificant amounts of acetone."
Is that what you are talking about. If it is, its true, and is a good thing. But a bit hard to explaine to someone w/o at least a basic understanding of organic chemistry.
Is that what you are talking about. If it is, its true, and is a good thing. But a bit hard to explaine to someone w/o at least a basic understanding of organic chemistry.
The note about their device that extracts electricity from air was found off their main page about other miraculous inventions they were developing.
07-10-2005, 08:22 PM
#27
well like i said, I am going to try it. my speedometer and odometer are busted so i wont be able to verify any mpg increase or decrease untill i get them fixed which i plan to do soon. but i kept records up to the point i fukced them up so i have a basline to compare.
i went to 99cent store and bought a 16 oz bottle of 100% acetone nailpolish remover went to gas the gas station and put 4oz in the tank and filled up w/ some 93 octane. parked the car and unpluged the neg, battery cable to reset the computer, will hook it up tommorow morning and the experiment begins
1 gallon = 128 fl ounces
18 gallons in a full tank
18 gal x 128 oz/gal = 2304 oz in the tank
4oz acetone/2304 gal gas = .0017% ..concetration of acetone in fuel
at that conc. about the only thing i am sacred of is the acetone getting on my paint as i add it to the tank. and @ $0.25 a tank even the most meager savings in fuel economy pays for the acetone
i went to 99cent store and bought a 16 oz bottle of 100% acetone nailpolish remover went to gas the gas station and put 4oz in the tank and filled up w/ some 93 octane. parked the car and unpluged the neg, battery cable to reset the computer, will hook it up tommorow morning and the experiment begins
1 gallon = 128 fl ounces
18 gallons in a full tank
18 gal x 128 oz/gal = 2304 oz in the tank
4oz acetone/2304 gal gas = .0017% ..concetration of acetone in fuel
at that conc. about the only thing i am sacred of is the acetone getting on my paint as i add it to the tank. and @ $0.25 a tank even the most meager savings in fuel economy pays for the acetone
07-11-2005, 09:23 AM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 242
Better bet is to get the 17 Degree timing advance. I picked up 2-3 MPG more after having it done now for a month. I averaged 20-21 city. Now I just did a 23.2 tank average. You could possibly damage o-rings in the injecotrs after a while. Acetone will "take out" moisture in things, such as rubber. Then the rubber becomes brittle and cracks. Best of luck.
07-16-2005, 10:43 PM
#32
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 73
How can I get better MPG? 03 3.5L
Hello... im a newb to this site... the car is now my wife's and regardless of driving, babying it, what have you... the car doesnt get that great of mileage. Any recommendations that might help this out?
We run Chevron 93 Octane in it and only that... dont watn the car to be any louder either.
Whats my best bet? Some type of Air Intake... or changing the exhaust?
Any tips are appreciated...
We run Chevron 93 Octane in it and only that... dont watn the car to be any louder either.
Whats my best bet? Some type of Air Intake... or changing the exhaust?
Any tips are appreciated...
07-16-2005, 11:06 PM
#36
Cruise is actually part of the problem, (driving too slow and accelerating too slow can also hurt). My right foot gets better results than my cruise control, yours could do the same thing. And what specifically is it that you claim isn't great? Nissans don't get great mileage to start with, however you should be able to get about 24+ mpg on the highway.
07-17-2005, 07:15 AM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 633
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
Cruise is actually part of the problem, (driving too slow and accelerating too slow can also hurt). My right foot gets better results than my cruise control, yours could do the same thing. And what specifically is it that you claim isn't great? Nissans don't get great mileage to start with, however you should be able to get about 24+ mpg on the highway.