I think I've found the solution we've all been looking for in our 3.5's! The timing chain rattle seems to have been caused by the holes that provide the oil getting slightly clogged and not allowing enough oil to be passed into the chain cover casing. I had to have my engine flushed due to an unrelated issue that I'd rather not go into (only because it makes me look stupid) and found out some interesting stuff:
1) I couldn't find a place to flush it right off the bat, but in talking with a really good mechanic in Waldorf, MD, I was told that he uses a 1/2 quart of tranny fluid added to the oil, run it for 500 miles and change the oil. He told me that tranny fluid contains lanoline (same stuff to clean hands) and by running that through the engine, you end up doing the same thing as a BG flush. I ended up doing the flush anyway at a Jiffy Lube, but you DIY'ers can learn from this. He said that he's done it on newer beemers and V-dubs without any adverse effects. I trust this guy because he came highly recommended by serveral car guys I know down there.
2) I also found out that the oil drain holes that feed oil into the chain housing are very small and can partially clog from the master mechanic at the Nissan dealer in Gaithersburg. I spent a good hour talking with this guy about the car before I actually got to the point where I believed he knew what he was talking about. He also said that a good flush could take care of the problem, but if that didn't fix it, to take off the cover and clean it manually. Luckily for me, the flush did the trick (at 122k miles, I probably had more gunk in mine than most of you).
3) if you over-fill your transmission, it'll burn the fluid and start to act like the tranny is going out if it is under a heavy load. Jiffy Lube screwed up (ya, ya, go ahead and flame. I don't have time to DIY fluid changes...) and added about 1.5 quarts too much. That was on 7-17-05. Yesterday (7-27: 10 days and 2,000 miles later) I was driving through the mountains and felt like I had lost about half of my power. I tossed it in neutral and reved to see if there was a problem with the engine. Needless to say, it freely reved and sounded fine. In gear, on the other hand, the intake roared but the car didn't want to go. I drove it to the dealership where I had the tranny replaced at 103k miles. They drove it, felt the same thing I did, pulled the master mechanic out to look at it, he drove it and it gradually got better. Stopped the car, pulled out the dipstick, saw the fluid was too high and smelled burnt. After talking to the guy (mentioned above) I drove back to Jiffy Lube, showed them what they did (the guy who worked on the car was there and insisted on bringing everyone over to look at my engine bay: see sig for reason), they drained and refilled to the right level. Works great again.
4) regarding the oil consumption: I tried using stop leak. The car ran like crap within a quarter mile. Threw a code within 10 miles. Took it to autozone to get the code pulled: multiple misfire and cam shaft position acutator. That lead to the oil flush mentioned above. Long story short: 2,000 miles and little to no oil loss. However, I don't recommend going this route. I had a chance of really screwing things up and only got lucky that I didn't.

 

Interesting info. Are you talking about a rather constant TC rattle, or the one we hear at start up? Cause I've had that start up rattle on and off since the car was new. I wouldn't think those holes would be clogged when the car was new.

 

I'm refering to the one that happens at 2,500 to 3k rpms. Tons of the 3.5's get that. The tech also said that the start-up rattle can be decreased by the flush, but it's very common on even new cars.

 

bump for Irish's sake.

 

Damn George these 02's at High mileage arent reliable at all first its tranny then oil then something else...

 

lookin' forward to it?

 

tranny fluid eh? it makes sense, that's how we used to clean out the rotaries in the mazda rotary engines. , pour some in and crank the engine, it'll go POP POP POP and all the spark plugs will blow out and then the rotaries are clean, all u gotta do is replace the spark plugs =D. some dude found out about this trick because he was trying to pull an insurance scam by blowing up his engine with tranny fluid.

 

The mechanic didn't mention changing the plugs. I think that the rotary design would get oil in the plugs more than a conventional engine. Makes sense. How long did your rotary last? I had a buddy in college that had a 81 and 82 RX-7. The 81 was for parts. Eventually, we pulled the engine on the 81 and put it into the 82 because the seals went bad on the 82. I literally lifted it out with one arm. Fun car with great balance.

 

The more common use of ATF in rotaries was to swell up the apex seals when they aged and lost compression. I used to advise early rotary owners to carry a bottle of ATF to dump down the carb when (not if) their cars lost compression.

Properly maintained with new apex seals after 60-100k you can get 200k+ out of a 2nd or 3rd gen rotary. Also, the ignition coils tend to overheat and fail by cracking at the part on the coil where you plug the coil wire into (on either of the two coils, or both at once.) Keeping the plugs clean and properly gapped is essential on an early rotary even with the twin coil setup.

 

Are you referring to the automatics or the 6spds?

I'm seriously looking at buying an '02 with ~50k and am doing the best I can to research the problems with these cars before buying.

(not trying to hijack the thread...)

 

[QUOTE=Bgreenlee]Are you referring to the automatics or the 6spds?

I'm seriously looking at buying an '02 with ~50k and am doing the best I can to research the problems with these cars before buying.

(not trying to hijack the thread...)[/QUOTE

George Iam not looking forward to it,The Auto Trannys are garbage nissan needs to do a recall.

 

you wanna complain about tranny's? go buy a TL/CL

 

Why would i buy a TL/CL mom got a 05 TL from the line its slow as H3LL...

 

so are you just a post wh0re or something? you're the one saying nissan needs to recall these trannies...so i said, if you want to complain about a tranny...GET A TL. what's so hard to understand? as far as i can see, my max's tranny will last the life of the car, whereas my mom's TL...well....looks like i'll be having to convince my parents to get rid of it before it hits 100k....

 

First off, you WILL replace / rebuild your tranny at some point. Secondly, ya, the TL sucks in most respects: slow and a sh1tty tranny. These are just the facts of life. The sky is blue, the ocean's blue, my exhaust fumes are blue, and I'm on my second autotragic that I know will die at some point.

 

bet you my oem tranny will last just fine

 

i've never had a rotary car. it was my instructors, it's a full race rx3 =D.. we pull that darn thing apart every other week. and we had spare motors for that thing.

i don't think you'll need to replace the spark plugs on regular engines after the ATF treatment, just change out the oil real good.

 

I've been consistantly getting this rattling noise just about as long as I can remember driving my 2k2 since it was new. Thanks for posting this find.

As for the tranny, I'm also on my 2nd auto tranny and I suspect that I'll be going through another one in the future as its a pile of crap.

 

1,500 dollars says you don't make it to 150k miles on the OEM tranny. Both of mine are 100% OEM and the only "performance" mod I've done is an Injen intake, which, by the way, has been shown to increase performance by exactly .00024 hp at WOT.

 

I'll take you up on that bet I have 120k on my original 4th Gen slushbox...

 

We're talking about 5.5 gens dude!

 

Uh, the 4th gens had about, oh 65 less hp at the crank than the 5.5 gens. Not to mention the fact that they are COMPLETELY different trannies...

 

I know - thats why I specifically mentioned 4th Gen.. i didn't think there were any major differences in the auto trannies...

 

The HP difference is valid - I didn't realize the trannies were completely different... my bad.

 

that's an extremely bold statement

 

I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it.

 

Thanks for the info. I added the transmission oil over the weekend and drove about 100 miles so far and the rattle reduced dramatically.

 

and a FYI, the rattle on cold start... theres a TSB for it, calling to replace the failed cam adjuster.

 

Is it a recall or just a TSB? Curious as about all of us get that!

 

if this be true..why do new VQ'd do this? Their holes should not be clogged??

 

just a TSB.

--------------------------------

Classification:
EC03-016

Reference
NTB03-060

Date:
June 18, 2003

2002 MAXIMA AND ALTIMA WITH VQ35 ENGINE; RATTLE NOISE WHEN STARTED COLD.

APPLIED VEHICLE(S):
2002 Altima (L31) with VQ35DE engine.
2002 Maxima (A33)

APPLIED VIN(S):
2002 Altima built before 1N4BL11D(*)3C 210299
2002 Maxima built before JN1DA31A(*)3T 438232 or
JN1DA31A(*)3T 524380

APPLIED DATE(S):
2002 Altima built before January 17, 2003
2002 Maxima built before November 20, 2002

APPLIED ENGINE:
VQ35DE

IF YOU CONFIRM:

The engine in an applied vehicle makes a rattle noise for about 1 second when started cold,

DETERMINE IF:

The noise is coming from the left or right side VTC (Valve Timing Control) sprocket.

ACTION:

Replace the VTC sprocket that is making noise.







PARTS INFORMATION







CLAIMS INFORMATION

IMPORTANT: The purpose of 'ACTION' is to give you a quick idea of the work you will be performing. You MUST closely follow the entire Service Procedure as it contains information that is essential to successfully completing this repair.

SERVICE PROCEDURE







1. Determine if the noise is coming from a VTC sprocket, and which one (left bank or right bank).

a. Do not start or run the engine for at least 4 hours (cold-soak).

^ Overnight "cold-soak" is preferred.


b. Have one person start the engine while a second person is near the front of the engine to listen for the noise.

^ Listen around the VTC sprocket areas.


NOTE: The incident noise will last for only about 1 second.

2. Replace the VTC sprocket that is making noise.

^ Refer to the appropriate Service Manual (ESM), section EM, for VTC sprocket replacement procedures.

^ A very small amount of noise from the new VTC sprocket during a cold start is considered normal and acceptable.

 

I think this is what most people hear. Great to know it was only in the 2k2's. Thanks for the post!